Lawyer Invoice ??

[DanC78]

Wife and I have been in a custondy battle with her ex husband over her son. We just recieved an invoice for one of our attorneys and there is line item for travel. We are being charged $120 for his car ride to the court house.

Is this normal? We have two attorenys working for us and the other did not charge for travel.

Just curious if this is the norm.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I'm sure the clock started ticking the moment he left his office to the moment he returned. After all, while he was out conducting business on your behalf, he was not able to perform other billable tasks.

 

[Fijimn]

Is it cost for travel (55 cents a mile per IRS regs) or attorney time for travel. It's billable time for travel, consult your contract and/or engagement letter regarding billable time for travel.

It is the norm for one-off client. Most institutional clients that send a lot of work negotiate a lower rate or simply say they will not pay for travel time.

 

[F4Gary]

And people complain about the airlines nickel and diming them...

 

[NDallasRuss]

And people complain about the airlines nickel and diming them...

I think this is different - to me, at least.

I bill clients for my travel time and mileage as well. The time it takes me to get to to/from the client's location is time that I can't do anything else. And the miles that I drive to get there and back are miles that wouldn't otherwise be put on my car. So, I capture them so that I get credit for the hours and money for the miles from my company, and my company bills that time and those miles to the client on which I was working.

And similar to what was said above, it sometimes depends on the relationship with the client. I'll always enter the time and miles, but in some cases, my company may decide (or be contractually obligated) not to pass those along to the client.

In my experience, that's how it is with professional services, and it seems reasonable to me. My available work hours 9and the work product than can come from them) are the product that my company's selling. Their goal is to bill for as many of those hours as they can. My goal is to make as many of those hours billable as I can. If I incur time for a client for travel to/from work at a client site, and my company doesn't bill for it, then it's the same as someone coming into a restaurant to eat, and then only paying for part of the meal.

I will say though, that if I drive straight from home to a client site, and then back home again, then I deduct out the time and miles from my house to my office and back, so that the client is only billed for the difference above my normal commute. If I leave from the office though, then there's no reducing, since it's all in excess of my commute at that point.

To me, it's way different than the airlines charging for carry-on bags, peanuts, drinks, and other stuff that has always been factored into the price of the airline ticket.

 

[SeaPA]

I think this is different - to me, at least.

I bill clients for my travel time and mileage as well. The time it takes me to get to to/from the client's location is time that I can't do anything else.

You're sitting in your car. You can, and should, be thinking about how to resolve the problems of a different client. That way, you can bill Dance for the mileage & the travel time, while also billing the other client for the time you spent on his issue.
How the hell do you expect to ever generate 10,000 billable hours a year with your pathetic way of accomplishing tasks?

 

[DanC78]

meh...I'll pay it, but it's a little silly for this particular guy to charge for it. He isn't a sought after lawyer, and the only reason I used him is bacuase we workout together and has just opened his own practice. He spends about two hours a day in the gym, he isn't busy.

He actually told me that he didn't go to the gym the week of our court date preparing for us. Then we get to court and he puts his head down and never stops writing notes. Not once did he say a word during the whole thing...just sat there like a bump on a log trying not vomit.

The other attorney is very sought after and has full days. She put travel time on her inovice, but had it at no charge. I would have expected her to charge before the other dude.

Is what it is...was just annoyed and curious.

 

[FSUTribe76]

I think this is different - to me, at least.

I bill clients for my travel time and mileage as well. The time it takes me to get to to/from the client's location is time that I can't do anything else. And the miles that I drive to get there and back are miles that wouldn't otherwise be put on my car. So, I capture them so that I get credit for the hours and money for the miles from my company, and my company bills that time and those miles to the client on which I was working.

And similar to what was said above, it sometimes depends on the relationship with the client. I'll always enter the time and miles, but in some cases, my company may decide (or be contractually obligated) not to pass those along to the client.

In my experience, that's how it is with professional services, and it seems reasonable to me. My available work hours 9and the work product than can come from them) are the product that my company's selling. Their goal is to bill for as many of those hours as they can. My goal is to make as many of those hours billable as I can. If I incur time for a client for travel to/from work at a client site, and my company doesn't bill for it, then it's the same as someone coming into a restaurant to eat, and then only paying for part of the meal.

I will say though, that if I drive straight from home to a client site, and then back home again, then I deduct out the time and miles from my house to my office and back, so that the client is only billed for the difference above my normal commute. If I leave from the office though, then there's no reducing, since it's all in excess of my commute at that point.

To me, it's way different than the airlines charging for carry-on bags, peanuts, drinks, and other stuff that has always been factored into the price of the airline ticket.

That's why I almost always do flat fees plus costs. That way the client doesn't get p%*%* over billing the time I actually spend on the case (like travel and waste of time phone calls repeating myself) but it's already built into my fee.

 

[NDallasRuss]

That's why I almost always do flat fees plus costs. That way the client doesn't get p%*%* over billing the time I actually spend on the case (like travel and waste of time phone calls repeating myself) but it's already built into my fee.

The clients on which I work (mostly government and utilities) don't want to do that. They want Time and Expense. For them, I wouldn't want it either, because it's hard to tell exactly how big of a bear trap you're about to walk into when we start one of our reviews.

 

[NDallasRuss]

You're sitting in your car. You can, and should, be thinking about how to resolve the problems of a different client. That way, you can bill Dance for the mileage & the travel time, while also billing the other client for the time you spent on his issue.
How the hell do you expect to ever generate 10,000 billable hours a year with your pathetic way of accomplishing tasks?

That's a LOT of hours in a year! I'm not trying to double bill anyone - I just want to make sure that I'm getting credit for the time that I'm working. I try not to get caught up on competing to have the highest chargeability, the most OT, and all of that.

 

[DFSNOLE]

meh...I'll pay it, but it's a little silly for this particular guy to charge for it. He isn't a saught after lawyer, and the only reason I used him is bacuase we workout together and has just opened his own practice. He spends about two hours a day in the gym, he isn't busy.

He actually told me that he didn't go to the gym the week of our court date preparing for us. Then we get to court and he puts his head down and never stops writing notes. Not once did he say a word during the whole thing...just sat there like a bump on a log trying not vomit.

The other attorney is very saught after and has full days. She put travel time on her inovice, but had it at no charge. I would have expected her to charge before the other dude.

Is what it is...was just annoyed and curious.

Sought. See your spell check is still not working.

 

[DanC78]

Sought. See your spell check is still not working.

lol...no

 

[DanC78]

The more I think about it, the more it's bs. His travel time should be on him and built in to his hourly rate. I should only be paying for time where he is actively working on my actual case.

 

[DanC78]

Just sent him an email, it reads this.

'Hey Jim, any chance you can waive the $120 travel fee?"

Pretty simple and to the point, we shall see.

 

[SeaPA]

Sought. See your spell check is still not working.

That's bacause he turned it off.

 

[DanC78]

That's bacause he turned it off.

you and me both 'bacause" it's the cool thing to do!

 

[ReliableOstrich]

That's a LOT of hours in a year! I'm not trying to double bill anyone - I just want to make sure that I'm getting credit for the time that I'm working. I try not to get caught up on competing to have the highest chargeability, the most OT, and all of that.

esp since you can just say it's a big bear trap regardless and charge the piss out of them

I've lived that big four life. What a scam it is

 

[DanC78]

He waived it.

 

[SoddyNole]

Don't be chargin me $120.00 dollar Counselor!

 

[NDallasRuss]

I've lived that big four life. What a scam it is

I did Big 4 for a while, but this is a smaller, regional place. It's a lot different. Once we start an engagement, we rarely ever go back for a change order to add hours ($$$) to the original quote. It has to be something really extenuating - to the point where the client is encouraging us to get more hours approved - for us to do it. It's WAY different than the way other firms do it, and the client is surprised when we meet with them and they're expecting to hear about delays and that it's going to take longer than originally projected, etc, and instead we just get it done and bill them within the agreed upon budget. I like this place and this environment a lot more.

 

[More Kirk Less Spock]

Wife and I have been in a custondy battle with her ex husband over her son. We just recieved an invoice for one of our attorneys and there is line item for travel. We are being charged $120 for his car ride to the court house.

Is this normal? We have two attorenys working for us and the other did not charge for travel.

Just curious if this is the norm.

I think this is usually in your fee agreement. You can always change attorneys if you think he's gouging you.

 

[DanC78]

I think this is usually in your fee agreement. You can always change attorneys if you think he's gouging you.

He's been fair on all but this.

 

[RTM58]

Wife and I have been in a custondy battle with her ex husband over her son. We just recieved an invoice for one of our attorneys and there is line item for travel. We are being charged $120 for his car ride to the court house.

Was it only a 10 minute walk?

 

[surfnole]

My attorney's paralegal charges me for 15 minutes every time she sends an email...even if its a one line response.

 

[DanC78]

My attorney's paralegal charges me for 15 minutes every time she sends an email...even if its a one line response.

Yup...I get charged when they read them. And this after we were told to bcc them on all correspondence between us and wife's ex.

 

[Manch.]

Years ago, the attorney I had charged me for everything from travel to tolls to police copies to photocopies.....

I also had a divorce attorney and she was great. I had to meet with in her office, and she cancelled about 10 minutes after we were scheduled to meet. I joked with her that she or my doctor would have charged me if I cancelled without a 24 hour notice
When she sent me my final invoice, she gave me credit for half an hour. I recommended her to two others that hired her. She even offered me free advice against my landlord and offered her legal assistants help with filing complaints with the courts. Her customer service gained her new clients in the end.

 

[goldmom]

I thought it was understood that travel time is billed. Never thought otherwise.

 

[squiffynole]

Portal to portal.

 

[West Duval Nole]

Yup...I get charged when they read them. And this after we were told to bcc them on all correspondence between us and wife's ex.

So he charged you for sending the email requesting he waive the travel fee? Yes I have wived the travel fee but now I am charging you for 15 minutes because I had to read and respond to your email.

 

[FSULongM]

My experience is bill it if you can get away with it, take it off if a client bitches about it. I have been both the consultant and the client. I always bitched about it as the client.