Major League Baseball attendance

[GwinnettNole]

Spot on. Some years ago there were at least different guys in MLB named Jose Cruz. Yes, America’s pastime needs to be less Venezuelan, at least in my view.

Baseball will become a dying sport in my opinion then. I'm also a soccer fan and that sport thrives on internationals on the highest level. Interesting take from some here...... I think the game needs as much interest globally as possible which would mean additional foreign players at the highest level. Otherwise, IMO, its probably peaked in interest in the US, no?

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

Baseball will become a dying sport in my opinion then. I'm also a soccer fan and that sport thrives on internationals on the highest level. Interesting take from some here...... I think the game needs as much interest globally as possible which would mean additional foreign players at the highest level. Otherwise, IMO, its probably peaked in interest in the US, no?

You are correct that as we become more “diverse,” the relative significance of the Americans probably goes down. I guess MLB just needs to make sure the diverse crowd can afford the tickets and $13 beers.

 

[mcgrawfsu]

Baseball will become a dying sport in my opinion then. I'm also a soccer fan and that sport thrives on internationals on the highest level. Interesting take from some here...... I think the game needs as much interest globally as possible which would mean additional foreign players at the highest level. Otherwise, IMO, its probably peaked in interest in the US, no?

I hope my statement on international players isn't taken as my personal opinion on them. I think international players are great for the game. But baseball as a whole has not caught on internationally like soccer and basketball. It likely never will. My statement was based on the overall baseball fan sentiment. If you look at baseball jersey sales, very few of the top jerseys are international players.

US sports in general seem to go through peaks and valleys based on transcendent players/eras. Basketball was huge with Shaq, Jordan, Bird...baseball was huge during the steroid era and the late 80's...golf peaked with Tiger...boxing with Tyson...heck, even Nascar had it's time in the headlines. Until baseball finds a way to get their stars more in the spotlight they will remain flat. If the Angels can somehow win a World Series, they'd have Trout and Otani in the spotlight.

Even then, I don't think they will see mediocre attendance in small or mid markets. They could give tickets away for free and they wouldn't fill half the stadium in half their cities.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

So you want a worse product on the field?

So you are saying Jose is better than Mark? I am not sure that is true. I think Jose is cheaper than Mark, at least unless-until Jose becomes a huge star. And if he is a huge star, the teams are happy to pay him big cash. In the interim, Jose is more receptive to the rigors of the minor leagues than Mark.

 

[seminoledq]

So you are saying Jose is better than Mark? I am not sure that is true. I think Jose is cheaper than Mark, at least unless-until Jose becomes a huge star. And if he is a huge star, the teams are happy to pay him big cash. In the interim, Jose is more receptive to the rigors of the minor leagues than Mark.

Jose may or may not be better than Mark, the problem is there aren't enough Mark's coming up through the system. Beginning with Little League.

 

[Ohio1nole]

Jose may or may not be better than Mark, the problem is there aren't enough Mark's coming up through the system. Beginning with Little League.

I wonder if that will change due to the concussion problem in football.. Mothers are probably pushing other sports for their sons to play. More safer sports than football.

I’m curious to see little league participation in a few years

 

[NoleMoreTears]

So you are saying Jose is better than Mark? I am not sure that is true. I think Jose is cheaper than Mark, at least unless-until Jose becomes a huge star. And if he is a huge star, the teams are happy to pay him big cash. In the interim, Jose is more receptive to the rigors of the minor leagues than Mark.

Yes, Jose is better than Mark. Jose had a higher chance of playing all baseball all the time, like his life and family depend on it. So, on average he is better.

 

[mcgrawfsu]

I wonder if that will change due to the concussion problem in football.. Mothers are probably pushing other sports for their sons to play. More safer sports than football.

I’m curious to see little league participation in a few years

I thought LL numbers would certainly go up with the CTE getting so much attention. It hasn't. The decline has slowed somewhat, but year over year numbers are still down over the past 4 years (that's all I've tracked). Youth basketball and lacrosse are growing though from what I understand.

 

[HulaNole]

 

[Manch.]

Jose may or may not be better than Mark, the problem is there aren't enough Mark's coming up through the system. Beginning with Little League.

I agree. Manchester, NH has always had one of the top Babe Ruth teams in New England, and routinely sent 13 and 15 year old teams to the Babe Ruth World Series (the 13 year old team went to the WS in Tally in 1999). This past year, there was no league due to lack of players. They couldn't even put one team together to play against other cities and towns.

 

[runkpanole]

View embedded media

Funny, but really at the end of the day, they are still fans of bottom dwellers in attendance and and standings.

 

[HulaNole]

For what they Marlins organization has done to that town I am surprised when one person shows up to give them money.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

The younger generation just doesn't want to sit for 3 or 4 hours to watch a game. One reason RIngling Brothers Circus closed was kids did not want to sit for 2.5 hours. Even when they shortened the show they were not drawing enough kids.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

The younger generation just doesn't want to sit for 3 or 4 hours to watch a game. One reason RIngling Brothers Circus closed was kids did not want to sit for 2.5 hours. Even when they shortened the show they were not drawing enough kids.

Dude gets it. Behavior is changing, plain and simple. At a very early age kids are conditioned to play on their games, videos and phones. The idea of them sitting still and focusing on one event — while turning off Twitter, Instagram and all of the rest — is not attractive to them.

 

[travnole]

Yup, there is not a live event we go to with our kids where at some point we here “Mom, Dad can I have your phone?” from our 6 yr old.

 

[Bav803]

Like most things, it can't be tied to one singular change:

1. People (Not just kids) are far most distracted than ever before.
2. I think, as a society, we think we are busier and have more things to do. Whether it be work, chores, etc.
3. Cost (Especially concessions)
4. I think that sporting events are much more social events today than they are interesting games with stakes. I love going to sporting events, but the heck if I can remember who won the last Braves game I went to. A midweek braves game doesn't lend as well to meeting up with friends, or having a few beers as a weekend game.

I would suspect (and I have no evidence of this), that 15 years ago, a noon FSU game would be better attended than a noon FSU game today (Relative to a night game), because sporting events are not about the game, but all of the circumstances surrounding it.

 

[DDennis73]

Bav and Bill have nailed it IMO. But I would say its not just kids but even the 20-35 range (kids to some lol). Its a combination of many factors. You can watch virtually any sporting event on your phone now and certainly enjoy it at home without the hassle of traffic, parking and prices.

I think all sports are subject to this but some more than others. College sports are still somewhat of an event which means people will want to attend more than say a midweek MLB game. Same for NBA IMO. Just that its easier to fill a basketball arena than an MLB stadium.

 

[GwinnettNole]

I watch soccer and love the not having commercial breaks during playing time. Why can't baseball at least adjust some to the time spent between innings? Cut it down a minute....? That would make a difference as well. What is it now 3-5 minutes between innings?

 

[DDennis73]

What kills me more than anything in baseball are all the breaks in play that are needless. I understand that they are some safety concerns for injury but barring having to come in for an injured player do away with warm up pitches. Relief pitchers warm up way in advance.

 

[kc78]

What kills me more than anything in baseball are all the breaks in play that are needless. I understand that they are some safety concerns for injury but barring having to come in for an injured player do away with warm up pitches. Relief pitchers warm up way in advance.

I think all three major sports need to take some cues from soccer. The needless stops in play that kill momentum and lengthen the game are a problem. The NFL for example needs to cut way back on the length of time replays take for refs for example. There should be a time limit on how long replays play and then the screen goes blank. If it's not obvious within 30 seconds, then the play stands. (This is an area soccer is having a problem this year. They've implemented replay and it's killing games).

The NBA has got to change the rules to do away with all the fouling at the end of games. All the sports need to cut back on commercials, which I know will cost people money, but the amount of commercial time in basketball, baseball, and NFL are killer. If you just change some of the rules related to time wasting, that would help a great deal.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

The length and rhythm of games is definitely hurting a number of sports, football and baseball being the best examples.

I'm a huge advocate of shortening football games to 2-2.5 hours by reducing quarters to 12 minutes, not stopping the clock on incompletions, limiting replays (maybe going NFL route of 2 challenge flags/team), and reducing TV timeouts (adding on-field, on-uniform, and static on-screen advertising to replace that revenue).

The new AAF is coming soon, which I'm very interested to see. "Rules for the league include no kickoffs, required two-point conversions after touchdowns, limited replays and no television timeouts." CBS and CBS Sports will air games. I like what the AAF is thinking, making changes NFL and CFB ought to but are precluded from making by their own suffocating traditions and hubris.

Baseball is just a god-awfully slow sport. I used to love it in the 90s but other than a couple world series games, I can't watch but an at-bat or two. I don't even know how you make that more watchable without demolishing pitchers arms or yielding a ton of wild pitches.

Soccer has a great product and you know exactly when the game will end +/- 5 minutes. MLS seems to really be booming these days. ATL game I went to was a packed house and more rowdy than an FSU game. They've built a tremendous culture around their organization and I would assume other MLS teams have as well - if not ATL UTD is a great blueprint to follow.

For baseball and football, it's an 'evolve or die' situation. Perhaps not die but become a niche (baseball) or regional (football) sport over then next 20 years.

Basketball has a great product as well but needs to do a little soul searching around replays, foul-fiestas toward the end of close games, and teams tanking down the stretch.

 

[kc78]

The length and rhythm of games is definitely hurting a number of sports, football and baseball being the best examples.

I'm a huge advocate of shortening football games to 2-2.5 hours by reducing quarters to 12 minutes, not stopping the clock on incompletions, limiting replays (maybe going NFL route of 2 challenge flags/team), and reducing TV timeouts (adding on-field, on-uniform, and static on-screen advertising to replace that revenue).

The new AAF is coming soon, which I'm very interested to see. "Rules for the league include no kickoffs, required two-point conversions after touchdowns, limited replays and no television timeouts." CBS and CBS Sports will air games. I like what the AAF is thinking, making changes NFL and CFB ought to but are precluded from making by their own suffocating traditions and hubris.

Baseball is just a god-awfully slow sport. I used to love it in the 90s but other than a couple world series games, I can't watch but an at-bat or two. I don't even know how you make that more watchable without demolishing pitchers arms or yielding a ton of wild pitches.

Soccer has a great product and you know exactly when the game will end +/- 5 minutes. MLS seems to really be booming these days. ATL game I went to was a packed house and more rowdy than an FSU game. They've built a tremendous culture around their organization and I would assume other MLS teams have as well - if not ATL UTD is a great blueprint to follow.

For baseball and football, it's an 'evolve or die' situation. Perhaps not die but become a niche (baseball) or regional (football) sport over then next 20 years.

Basketball has a great product as well but needs to do a little soul searching around replays, foul-fiestas toward the end of close games, and teams tanking down the stretch.

Agree on most of that. Soccer has become my number one sport. 5 years ago I'd have never considered it. It has its flaws, (Flopping and diving still sucks) and the new instant replay needs some major tweaking (I think it needs to be majorly reduced on when it can be used) but it's got the nonstop excitement (Once you realize that it can be and give it a chance) and the timing is perfect.

Baseball is a sport I love in person with some family and friends but can't stand to watch on tv at all.

Football has just added way too many technical rules and play stoppages with replay. If they'd keep a running clock the whole game, cut down tremendously on replay, and simplify the hell out of the rules, then I think that game still has a future. But the ridiculous fouls and calls kill the fun, the replays take way too long, and there's too many commercials.

Basketball just needs to work on the problem with hack-a-shaq at the end of games. Tanking is going to happen in any league that uses a merit based draft and I'm ok with it. The only way you get rid of it is if you had a relegation system like many soccer leagues have where there's punishment for finishing at the bottom, but that will never happen in the US and I'm not certain I'd want it.

 

[QuaZ2002]

The length and rhythm of games is definitely hurting a number of sports, football and baseball being the best examples.

I'm a huge advocate of shortening football games to 2-2.5 hours by reducing quarters to 12 minutes, not stopping the clock on incompletions, limiting replays (maybe going NFL route of 2 challenge flags/team), and reducing TV timeouts (adding on-field, on-uniform, and static on-screen advertising to replace that revenue).

The new AAF is coming soon, which I'm very interested to see. "Rules for the league include no kickoffs, required two-point conversions after touchdowns, limited replays and no television timeouts." CBS and CBS Sports will air games. I like what the AAF is thinking, making changes NFL and CFB ought to but are precluded from making by their own suffocating traditions and hubris.

Baseball is just a god-awfully slow sport. I used to love it in the 90s but other than a couple world series games, I can't watch but an at-bat or two. I don't even know how you make that more watchable without demolishing pitchers arms or yielding a ton of wild pitches.

Soccer has a great product and you know exactly when the game will end +/- 5 minutes. MLS seems to really be booming these days. ATL game I went to was a packed house and more rowdy than an FSU game. They've built a tremendous culture around their organization and I would assume other MLS teams have as well - if not ATL UTD is a great blueprint to follow.

For baseball and football, it's an 'evolve or die' situation. Perhaps not die but become a niche (baseball) or regional (football) sport over then next 20 years.

Basketball has a great product as well but needs to do a little soul searching around replays, foul-fiestas toward the end of close games, and teams tanking down the stretch.

I have 0 interest in seeing fball games reduced to 2hrs or even 2.5hrs. That being said, 3ish is about perfect. Some college games seem interminable with how many replay stoppages they have and they last close to 4hrs. NFL is much better about keeping the game moving.

 

[kc78]

I have 0 interest in seeing fball games reduced to 2hrs or even 2.5hrs. That being said, 3ish is about perfect. Some college games seem interminable with how many replay stoppages they have and they last close to 4hrs. NFL is much better about keeping the game moving.

You wouldn't like to see so many commercial timeouts removed along with all the constant stoppage of play where people just stand around for 2 or 3 minutes sometimes? I'd love to see a game with a more constant flow.

 

[DDennis73]

I dont think football as a whole has a problem, I think the NFL has a problem. They are still the giant in the room and I think they will continue to be so in our lifetime, but the numbers will go down a great deal IMO. And I think that is because I dont think fans can relate or have that passion with an NFL team that they used to. But they still do for college.

I wouldnt mind less timeouts but I am good with the product. I love college because the games mean something and FSU is my school. Tallahassee is my community even though I dont live there I feel a connection. The NFL just feels so sterile. And the way it works now the games dont mean that much so long as you win more than you lose and you have a good chance to make the playoffs.

I think the real reason the NFL had its boom is that fantasy football was so huge. You had a built in legal reason to root for teams. I wonder if there is a drop off in the number of fans playing fantasy football. If that number goes down you know the ratings go down with it.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I have 0 interest in seeing fball games reduced to 2hrs or even 2.5hrs. That being said, 3ish is about perfect. Some college games seem interminable with how many replay stoppages they have and they last close to 4hrs. NFL is much better about keeping the game moving.

I can't imagine any sane person arguing against reduced replay and tv commercial stoppages so I'll limit my response to my comment about 12 minute quarters.

The reason I suggest this is two-fold:
1 - Shorten games into a more consumer friendly package. As others have mentioned, long games that drag aren't conducive for today's distracted viewer.
2 - Reduce hits. CTE could prove to be an existential threat to the game, by reducing the length of games, you reduce plays, and by reducing plays, you reduce the number of hits each player takes.

For the sport to continue thriving it will have to evolve, either in ways I've mentioned or other.

 

[kc78]

I can't imagine any sane person arguing against reduced replay and tv commercial stoppages so I'll limit my response to my comment about 12 minute quarters.

The reason I suggest this is two-fold:
1 - Shorten games into a more consumer friendly package. As others have mentioned, long games that drag aren't conducive for today's distracted viewer.
2 - Reduce hits. CTE could prove to be an existential threat to the game, by reducing the length of games, you reduce plays, and by reducing plays, you reduce the number of hits each player takes.

For the sport to continue thriving it will have to evolve, either in ways I've mentioned or other.

I think you can do that without reducing the quarter time to 12 minutes. You get rid of commercials during the quarters, except for timeouts and reduce drastically the use of replay, along with maybe introducing a running clock and you'll cut the time down dramatically.

 

[QuaZ2002]

I can't imagine any sane person arguing against reduced replay and tv commercial stoppages so I'll limit my response to my comment about 12 minute quarters.

The reason I suggest this is two-fold:
1 - Shorten games into a more consumer friendly package. As others have mentioned, long games that drag aren't conducive for today's distracted viewer.
2 - Reduce hits. CTE could prove to be an existential threat to the game, by reducing the length of games, you reduce plays, and by reducing plays, you reduce the number of hits each player takes.

For the sport to continue thriving it will have to evolve, either in ways I've mentioned or other.

I’d of course be all for less commercials but to me that’s almost an entirely different issue than the game itself. I don’t want a running clock or 12 min quarters. And I don’t think reducing the game by 20% is going to make a difference in CTE. The replays in college are exhausting and I’d be in favor of a challenge system. They also need to be way more efficient with them. I think the NFL at 3hrs is the sweet spot.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I think you can do that without reducing the quarter time to 12 minutes. You get rid of commercials during the quarters, except for timeouts and reduce drastically the use of replay, along with maybe introducing a running clock and you'll cut the time down dramatically.

I'd take that.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I think you can do that without reducing the quarter time to 12 minutes. You get rid of commercials during the quarters, except for timeouts and reduce drastically the use of replay, along with maybe introducing a running clock and you'll cut the time down dramatically.

The NFL is primarily funded by TV contracts. They make roughly $7bil a year. The individual networks fund those contracts through advertisers. Reducing the number of commercials isn't going to happen .