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Martial law in Turkey

seminole97

Veteran Seminole Insider
Jun 14, 2005
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I hope this thread is more current events than politics.
The Republic of Turkey has spent about half its life under martial law, but I'm curious whether this is the military overthrowing Erdogan, or Erdogan ratcheting up power.
I tend to think the purges have gotten old, and the latest power grab by AKP has caused the military to react before Erdogan achieves his goal of dictatorship.
All the same, we live in interesting times...
 
If you caught a ban that'd make the thread worthwhile.

*He didn't but a repeat offense will earn him one.
 
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looks like it was Military. I got a feeling we are ok/blessing this. Between his power grab and refusal to help much with key north border of front on Isis, the timing is interesting.
 
Wife and kids are due to fly through Istanbul on their way back from Germany next Sunday. Oh, sucks for the Turkish people too I guess.
 
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The Republic of Turkey has spent about half its life under martial law, but I'm curious whether this is the military overthrowing Erdogan, or Erdogan ratcheting up power.

From watching the news reports it looks like it could be a little of both.
 
A very good friend has a niece teaching at an international school in Istanbul. Family has begged her to come home but she is young and must feel invincible. Family is worried sick.
 
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Looks like that was put down quickly. Guess it pays to check that you have some popular support before attempting a coup. Nothing like getting pulled out of your tank and beaten by angry citizens to put a damper on a military coup. Now get that airport back up and operating safely by next Sunday please.
 
A very good friend has a niece teaching at an international school in Istanbul. Family has begged her to come home but she is young and must feel invincible. Family is worried sick.

Damned kids. They consistently ignore good advice, but they'll always call when they need something. Interesting how that works.
 
Of late, every time we say that a worse faction rises to power to take the place of said dictator. Some of these internal factions in various countries need to be suppressed under iron fist rule.
Turkey's historically been different though. At least in the past, seems the military has acted when it felt the gov't was getting too autocratic. Erdogan has been grabbing power for awhile now and becoming less moderate so maybe they felt they needed to act.
 
The end of secular Turkey. Erdogan: "This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army."
 
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To bad it seems this was poorly planned or they didn't have the support they had hoped for. Erdogan is a bad guy who really needs to go. I have flown in and out of Turkey numerous times and every time we were told not to leave the hanger and when we went to eat they bussed us in blacked out busses. They did not want anyone to see us; this was not for opsec this was Turkey's government policy. Doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize it was at the height of the war and Turkey is a NATO country. That should tell you how supportive they are.
 
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Topic near to me as my wife is Turkish and our son was trapped at Ataturk airport during the coup attempt. Needless to say it was a nerve racking night praying for his safety. Erdogan is making a power grab and surely this isnt the end of it
 
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Topic near to me as my wife is Turkish and our son was trapped at Ataturk airport during the coup attempt. Needless to say it was a nerve racking night praying for his safety. Erdogan is making a power grab and surely this isnt the end of it

No it's definitely far from over. I made the mistake of reading comments on an article about it on Muslim Matters. For every one commenter saying "I'm Turkish and I support democracy and secular values" there were ten calling that individual a traitor to Islam who should be hung or beheaded by the "great new Islamic state". Say goodbye to women's rights, American/European tourism to the country, and anything resembling a real ally against the Medieval behead them all and suicide vest branch of Islam. Turkey will fall back 800 years just like the rest of the Middle East.

Either this was a huge failure by the DCS and/CIA because they either were caught completely unaware of the last gasp to return Turkey to a sane, Western path and missed the opportunity to help or else they did a complete ¥{«` job of planning the coup to the point where it makes the Bay of Pigs look competent.
 
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Our flyboys at Incirlik Air Base are getting some extra bar time...

Well apparently the Turkish commander of that airbase was arrested without American intervention and may be beheaded as a traitor under the more hardline Islamist government.
 
I remain very worried about my friend's niece. It's no longer safe and we're hoping she can see that now. Her sister, by the way, was a teaching assistant at FSU until last year when she left to get her PhD at Auburn.
 
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Interestingly, this now looks like it's an example of how world events (Turkey toppling over into Muslim Extremism rather than remaining a western first world nation) was decided by two people. Apparently the plan was to have Edrogans plane shot down and while the two rebel F-16 pilots buzzed and harassed his plane they refused to shoot it down. Thus dooming thousands of their compatriots and maybe themselves to beheadings most likely.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-up-thousands-of-soldie/#update-20160717-1914
 
The thing that makes no sense is why would they risk flying him towards Istanbul when they know there are rebel F16s in the air?
 
Turkey is going to be a powder keg for some time.

first, there is a trend against secularism. Erdogan supposedly gave promises to the religious factions, and they were upset at the rate of progress. So the coup was by those who were seeking greater religious control of the country.

second, there is the EU dimension. Turkey is a key pivot point for the U.S. in the mid east and as a check on Russia. So it was promised EU entry. However, EU critics are increasingly questionning the wisdom of granting visa free travel to 80 million Turks, and why the EU is abiding Erdogan's violation of human rights, press freedoms, rule of law, etc. Turkey is increasingly needed as an ally by the West but increasingly is become less Western.

For Turkey the situation is like Iran in 1979, except there is more external pressure on Turkey to become a religious state than there was on Iran in 1979.
 
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first, there is a trend against secularism. Erdogan supposedly gave promises to the religious factions, and they were upset at the rate of progress. So the coup was by those who were seeking greater religious control of the country.

So the coup was not carried out by elements of the military acting in their historical role to head off a drift from secular government, but instead by factions within the military that thought the pace of change to theocracy was too slow? That doesn't make sense to me.
Or are you suggesting the whole thing was staged (or perhaps allowed to initiate) as a catalyst for accelerating the kinds of changes Erdogan wants?
I really would expect a fake coup to be a lot less bloody, without army helicopters strafing police and civilians.
I think the coup failed because most importantly Erdogan has a huge base of support in the country. His party and allies are getting around 50% of the vote, and if those folks are brave enough to take to the streets any coup is in trouble, as they rely on the people being accepting, or at least docile, to succeed.
 
So the coup was not carried out by elements of the military acting in their historical role to head off a drift from secular government, but instead by factions within the military that thought the pace of change to theocracy was too slow? That doesn't make sense to me.
Or are you suggesting the whole thing was staged (or perhaps allowed to initiate) as a catalyst for accelerating the kinds of changes Erdogan wants?
I really would expect a fake coup to be a lot less bloody, without army helicopters strafing police and civilians.
I think the coup failed because most importantly Erdogan has a huge base of support in the country. His party and allies are getting around 50% of the vote, and if those folks are brave enough to take to the streets any coup is in trouble, as they rely on the people being accepting, or at least docile, to succeed.

I don't know if the coup was legit or staged. What I am saying is that the point of the coup was to make Turkey like Iran, not like France. Most of the country except Istanbul wants to move towards an Iranian style religious state.

On the other hand, Erdogan was becoming more tyrannical and its as likely that the U.S. or Russia for their own interests toppled him.

While the "fake coup" theory would not be at the top of the list if you apply Occam's razor, it does provide the most satisfactory explanation of why the revolutionaries did not kill Erdogan when they had the chance (multiple chances).

What actually happened is less relevant than what will happen. Erdogan is purging dissenters and for the time being has an excuse for his suppression of rights.

btw, the U.S. has an airbase there that hosts 50 nukes. John Kerry is threatening Erdogan with expulstion from NATO, but that sounds like a hollow threat to me.
 
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So the coup was not carried out by elements of the military acting in their historical role to head off a drift from secular government, but instead by factions within the military that thought the pace of change to theocracy was too slow? That doesn't make sense to me.

here is an excerpt of what George Friedman of Stratfor says:

. . . there are deep tensions between Turkey’s secular population, centered in Istanbul and long grounded and comfortable in Ataturk’s philosophy, and Erdogan’s more religious supporters in Anatolia and elsewhere. . . .
Erdogan came to power intending to build a new Turkey. He understood that the Islamic world had changed, that Islam was rising, and that Turkey could not simply remain a secular power. . . There have been persistent reports that Turkey is at least allowing IS to use its financial system, selling its oil in Turkey, and moving its people through Turkey. Erdogan has been, until recently, reluctant to attack them. He shifted his strategy in recent months, resulting in IS attacks on Turkey, apparently in retaliation.

Erdogan is caught between two forces. One is a Jihadist faction that it seems he has tried to manage, to deflect it from hitting Turkey. This effort has put him at odds with the United States and Russia simultaneously. He has also been under pressure from a domestic secular faction appalled by his strategy. Recently the strategy shifted. He reopened relations with Israel and apologized to Russia. He got rid of what many saw as a pro-Islamist prime minister. He appeared to be trying to rebalance his policy. The people who staged the coup likely saw these moves as weakness and sensed an opening.

It should be remembered that Turkey has become the critical country in its greater region. It is the key to any suppression of IS in Syria and even in Iraq. It is the pivot point of Europe’s migrant policy. It is challenging Russia in the Black Sea. The United States needs Turkey, as it has since World War II; and Russia can’t afford a confrontation with it. Neither country likes Erdogan, but it is not clear that either country has options.


In case its not obvious, Russia's main Western year-round port is in the Crimea, and its ships must pass through the Bosphorous Strait. If you control Turkey, you control Russia's Western fleet.
 
Thankfully Turkish Airlines and the U.S. have lifted travel restrictions. Still a little uneasy about my wife and kids traveling through their on Sunday, but I would imagine they'll be at the highest possible alert, for whatever that's worth.
 
here is an excerpt of what George Friedman of Stratfor says:

. . . there are deep tensions between Turkey’s secular population, centered in Istanbul and long grounded and comfortable in Ataturk’s philosophy, and Erdogan’s more religious supporters in Anatolia and elsewhere. . . .
Erdogan came to power intending to build a new Turkey. He understood that the Islamic world had changed, that Islam was rising, and that Turkey could not simply remain a secular power. . . There have been persistent reports that Turkey is at least allowing IS to use its financial system, selling its oil in Turkey, and moving its people through Turkey. Erdogan has been, until recently, reluctant to attack them. He shifted his strategy in recent months, resulting in IS attacks on Turkey, apparently in retaliation.

Erdogan is caught between two forces. One is a Jihadist faction that it seems he has tried to manage, to deflect it from hitting Turkey. This effort has put him at odds with the United States and Russia simultaneously. He has also been under pressure from a domestic secular faction appalled by his strategy. Recently the strategy shifted. He reopened relations with Israel and apologized to Russia. He got rid of what many saw as a pro-Islamist prime minister. He appeared to be trying to rebalance his policy. The people who staged the coup likely saw these moves as weakness and sensed an opening.

It should be remembered that Turkey has become the critical country in its greater region. It is the key to any suppression of IS in Syria and even in Iraq. It is the pivot point of Europe’s migrant policy. It is challenging Russia in the Black Sea. The United States needs Turkey, as it has since World War II; and Russia can’t afford a confrontation with it. Neither country likes Erdogan, but it is not clear that either country has options.


In case its not obvious, Russia's main Western year-round port is in the Crimea, and its ships must pass through the Bosphorous Strait. If you control Turkey, you control Russia's Western fleet.

Whoever wrote that analysis was dead wrong. It's clear now especially since the purge of tens of thousands of teachers, every single university dean, thousands of judges who had blocked the formal institution of sharia law plus the soldiers and police deemed most secularist that this purge was done to solidify Islamcist control. Anyone holding up Western values was either fired or arrested.
 
At what point does our administration pull the 50+ nukes out of Incirlik airbase? Hope they haven't forgotten about those..
 
I would have thought this goes without saying, but nukes aren't moved like that.

We should definitely reconsider the deployment, as under Erdogan Turkey is an ally on par with Pakistan.

to certain people in D.C., that is all the more reason to stay there. not that i agree with them.
 
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