At the end of MOS I was wondering why Superman didn't seem to give a crap about all the death and destruction in Metropolis and why he wasn't trying to save as many people as he could have. Now it makes sense going forward with this film.
Oh My God!!!! Batman vs Superman Trailer
- Thread starter Fear the Spear
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At the end of MOS I was wondering why Superman didn't seem to give a crap about all the death and destruction in Metropolis and why he wasn't trying to save as many people as he could have. Now it makes sense going forward with this film.
I just like Superman and Batman characters better than I do Iron Man, Thor and Captain America.
Do you think it's a personality thing where you relate more to the serious/brooding DC Comics superheroes, moreso than the lighthearted, goofy Marvel superheroes?
I've loved Batman and Superman since I was little, but these Snyder movies are lame as hell. He tries to blend the intensity of Nolan with his usual cartoonish CGI lasers/lights/destruction show, and it's horrible. Affleck will be the best thing about this movie, and that's not great. Cavill brings nothing to character, his portrayal of Clark Kent looks like an SNL skit. Eisenberg will again play himself, with a few "psycho" moments that'll just be a Ledger impression. Amy Adams is talented but she will spend two hours watching buildings crumble while permanently on the verge of tears. That's my prediction anyway
I'm sorry, but MoS wasn't serious/brooding, it was loud and boring. Marvel nailed serious AND superheroic with The Winter Soldier.
You do have a similar background to Bruce, plus the same chin and a hairline on par with Superman.
Agreed. Avenger series is eh. I have the same feelings with Nolebra Kai. Maybe it's because lately Superman/Batman movies have more of a serious/adult tone as opposed to the Avengers which is more kid friendly.
Why did everyone dislike MoS? I thought the backstory on superman was really good. The bad part IMO was all the CGI- destruction of Metropolis at the end. I would still give it a 6.
I would also give the DKR much higher than a 6. Those three DK (of course one was Batman Begins) movies was the best superhero trilogy in my mind.
Good list thanks for doing...
I just can't get over the female soldier calling Superman hot in the final scene after Metropolis is destroyed. Really, did Snyder think that was a wise move? There was no need for it whatsoever, let alone right at after what appears to be an integral scene for future movies.
I think Batman Begins is a better comic book movie but feel The Dark Knight is a better movie.
Bigger plot hole that a device that can microwave water only within pipes but doesn't harm humans, which are comprised of 70% water.
There's also the minor detail of how they injected the water (Cracking open pipe and pouring it in). These aren't sewer pipes, they're under high pressure. Water pipes don't work that way, but I know they took creative license and not a plot hole.
I think most people give BB a pass b/c it was a comic book film (as Desi pointed out, lots issues with it) but critique TDK with a meticulous comb b/c it was being so highly regarded. I love the ambition of TDK, that's why I like it more in terms of being a better film. Ambition takes greater risk, BB is just a safe comic book origin film that already had a foundation from Frank Miller's Year One comics (but missed a ton of opportunity with it). Maybe that's why I don't like BB as much as TDK, to me it missed the boat compared to its source material.
Superman not saving Pa Kent was just awful.
Dude, for real tho. Man, that was brutal, and I don't even like Kevin Costner (other than Tin Cup).
Why did he let his dad save the dog and there's no damn way I'm NOT saving my dad if I have the ability to do so. I don't care what he says, rather ask for forgiveness than permission and you know, still have my dad.
Wasn't serious? Like when Jor El gets shanked while trying to save his son? Or Clark's panic attack in the school? Or when Pa Kent has the heart-to-heart with Clark and him maybe he should have let the school bus full of kids drown? Or when Pa Kent dies in a tornado while trying to save a dog as his wife and kid watch? Or the 100,000+ people that die in the end fight scene? Or when Supes snaps Zod's neck when Zod was trying to fry a family of onlookers? Loud? Yes. Boring? Yes. But also serious/brooding. Or, at least, it tried really hard to be.
Desi, yes the water vapor issue is a big issue. But THAT'S IT. You can't get on the folks for how they injected the water....how did Joker get all the explosives so quickly, blah blah. I have no issue with those; like you say, creative license.
I'll tell you two in TDK....by the way, I like TDK a lot. I don't think it deserves a lot of the praise it gets. I think it gets it because Ledger's performance was REALLY incredible, and he's now dead.
1) Harvey escapes the Joker @ Bruce's party. (BTW, Joker didn't search too hard after Batman saved Rachel....that's a freebee #3 issue for you, no charge) The NEXT scene, Harvey goes to the jail to get Lao, throws him a bullet proof vest, and says "we have to keep you alive long enough to get you to court" (or something like that). So........did he take him to the court, did he not. What happened next. That is a MAJOR issue. And quite frankly overshadows ANYTHING in Batman Begins........but wait, there's more.
2) Harvey STEALS an ambulance, with probably 200 cops and officials around. He drives somewhere (by the way, he didn't close the back of the ambulance.....), NO ONE FOLLOWS HIM, to interrogate Joker's goon (name escapes me). ONLY Batman can find him. Not one cop, not one other fire engine, etc. Not as egregious as #1, but it's right up there.
I can give you more if you'd like (tomorrow or the next day), but to say BB has MORE plot holes than TDK is not true. And one could say the one BIG plot hole in BB could also be explained away with 'creative licence' (I don't agree with that statement, BTW).
Batman Begins is the tightest story of the three. Not the grandest, or largest scale, but simplest and best told of them all.
Admittedly haven not seen TDK or BB in quite a while, I'd have to re-watch to know for sure. I didn't pick up on those from TDK while watching them, so they didn't bother me.
1.) That's more of an editing issue than a plot issue.
2.) They were pre occupied w/ the murder of their Chief, kind of thought that was obvious.
My big issue w/ TDK is the bus escape scene from the bank in the opening. The Joker backs his bus out of the bank wall entrance and is the 2nd to last bus in line. Why didn't the last bus driver say to himself "self, WTF is that bus doing, let me call the police ASAP!"
See, your issue isn't an issue for me (maybe it should be). It's the Joker, and all his plans just work out (until they don't in the end). That's why, when people would say: how did he get things timed perfectly, how did he get TNT in the hospital, the boats, etc.? He's the freicking Joker, that's how. Nothing else needs to be said....
re your comments....
1) the editing issue became a MAJOR plot hole issue though. I can't watch the movie at the same level of enjoyment because I'm waiting for that drive to the courthouse....
2) there were maybe 1000 cops/detectives/etc. And harvey just drove away. At what point did the drivers and medics in that ambulance (that Harvey KICKS OUT as he jumps in) realize it was gone and try to do something about it.
This makes me think of potential Issue #4.....when Joker shoots Gordon, the 1000 cops ALL SCATTER!! They run away. Not one brave soul in the bunch.....I'm willing to let this slide.
Look, I like TDK. it's a batman flick, so it has to SUCK BAD for me to not like it. But there are some big story telling holes that cause problems (for me).
All those things you mentioned just ended up being hollow/shock value scenes that left no emotional attachment with the audience. That's a product of sloppy writing/bad directing/cardboard acting.
Most fans agree (and I'm a huge comic book nerd) that they just want a decent and exciting cinematic product for one of the biggest characters out there. Just because people disliked the director/movie doesn't mean they aren't superman fans. It's a good sign Goyer wasn't really involved this time around (he was preoccupied in crapping all over Constantine TV show) and I'm hopeful Affleck and Miller/Lord will supplant the current creative heads for the rest of productions.
David Goyer is the epitome of awful and a rider of the Christopher Nolan coat tails. Guy has destroyed some good franchises and DC keeps going to that hollow well.
I'm telling you, if Miller/Lord get control just like the Russos are for marvel, comic fans are going to be very happy
DC and the movie makers need Geoff Johns on retainer. I wonde if Miller/Lord will be too busy with Star Wars.
That was what I meant with my last sentence. Basically that the movie just kind of failed at what it was trying to do, be a serious emotional film. The tone was clear, imho, the execution just wasn't there. At least that's how I felt. For what it's worth, I like Snyder. I loved Dawn of the Dead. I though the visuals in the 300 were mindblowing, as far as how close they resembled the comic. Despite what others say, I liked Watchmen. I honestly don't think anyone could have done any better (and I was glad they removed the space octopus). Sucker Punch was atrain wreck and MoS just didn't hot home for me. Goyer's got WAY more hits than misses on his resume, agreed. I thought the trailer for BvS looked great. I've kept my hopes low, but I thought it looked awesome. I'm REALLY excited for the standalone Batman movie, now that Johns is co-writing it.
For me, Snyder is M Night Shamalyan. He had a bunch of early hits (Dawn of the Dead, 300, Watchmen which I also really enjoyed and have as one of my favorite superhero movies just behind Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men Future Past, and the 1st Captain America), but all of his recent stuff has been dreadful (Suckerpunch, 300 Rise of an Empire, Man of Steel). That tells me that when he's given free reign....he's awful and actually needs "The Studio" putting him under their thumb and telling him NO on a frequent basis. Definitely everything where he had final say as producer as well as director has been a huge miss.
To be fair, he didn't direct Rise of an Empire, he did MoS instead. Having a producer credit, along with 5 other people, shouldn't really be held against him.
Man of Steel was criticized due to the level of destruction and violence caused during the fights on Earth, but now that we know more about the plot of Batman v Superman all that destruction may be put into a bit more context. There could, in fact, be a very good reason all these super people are frowning at each other in the rain all the time.
This gif is based on a brief moment in the Comic Con footage, and a fan put it together with the right scene from Man of Steel. So now we've seen the battle from the point of view of the gods, as well as the people on the ground, and that's not a good look for Superman.
Here's the animation in question:
Zach Snyder loves grimdark, and every bit of marketing drives home the fact that this is not the Superman that fans of the original films, myself included, may want. His mother gives him an out if he doesn't want to help people. He's shown as an unknowable being of power, not a beacon of love and hope. From the ground, watching the death and destruction Superman brought to Earth, of course Bruce Wayne is pissed off.
This gives the whole film more context, even if you may not ultimately agree with this take on the characters and their choices.
This gif is based on a brief moment in the Comic Con footage, and a fan put it together with the right scene from Man of Steel. So now we've seen the battle from the point of view of the gods, as well as the people on the ground, and that's not a good look for Superman.
Here's the animation in question:
Zach Snyder loves grimdark, and every bit of marketing drives home the fact that this is not the Superman that fans of the original films, myself included, may want. His mother gives him an out if he doesn't want to help people. He's shown as an unknowable being of power, not a beacon of love and hope. From the ground, watching the death and destruction Superman brought to Earth, of course Bruce Wayne is pissed off.
This gives the whole film more context, even if you may not ultimately agree with this take on the characters and their choices.
Man of Steel was criticized due to the level of destruction and violence caused during the fights on Earth, but now that we know more about the plot of Batman v Superman all that destruction may be put into a bit more context. There could, in fact, be a very good reason all these super people are frowning at each other in the rain all the time.
This gif is based on a brief moment in the Comic Con footage, and a fan put it together with the right scene from Man of Steel. So now we've seen the battle from the point of view of the gods, as well as the people on the ground, and that's not a good look for Superman.
Here's the animation in question:
Zach Snyder loves grimdark, and every bit of marketing drives home the fact that this is not the Superman that fans of the original films, myself included, may want. His mother gives him an out if he doesn't want to help people. He's shown as an unknowable being of power, not a beacon of love and hope. From the ground, watching the death and destruction Superman brought to Earth, of course Bruce Wayne is pissed off.
This gives the whole film more context, even if you may not ultimately agree with this take on the characters and their choices.
You're giving the film too much leeway, most likely due to Superman the character being so beloved. The criticism was more than just the visual slog, it was pacing, writing, poor character arcs and the overall mimicry of Nolan/Frank Miller themes without any originality (Snyder's biggest problem).
Its just a miss of a first entrant towards the unified cinematic universe, but it's looking up with far more talented people like Terrio/Chris Miller/Phil Lord involved.
