I have been trying to duplicate the whole pig that Chris Shepherd smoked in the episode. Basically cooked over wood but basted and injected with a nuoc cham-based barbeque sauce. Then wrapped in lettuce leaves with the usual toppings. It's been kind of fun to do at home.
OK. I Need some help from the BBQ experts in the LR..
- Thread starter Bud Fox
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I have been trying to duplicate the whole pig that Chris Shepherd smoked in the episode. Basically cooked over wood but basted and injected with a nuoc cham-based barbeque sauce. Then wrapped in lettuce leaves with the usual toppings. It's been kind of fun to do at home.
I definitely second the Anchor Bar, but that’s literally the only place I’ve eaten at in Buffalo. Whenever we go back in a couple of years, I’ll need to check out some of your other recs. I really enjoyed N-O-L and the Ontario bench/Beamsville wineries so I’ll be back sooner rather than later.
For some reason, I got very hungry all of a sudden!A couple of things.
Franklin’s is ridiculously busy, do not be fooled into thinking “Surely people will not get up at 8 and wait in line 4 hours for brisket” but they will...and more. If you really want to do Franklins (or La BBQ which is arguably better and with just as long of a line) then know you must be prepared to sacrifice half a day to do it. Is it worth it? I did Franklin’s before he became ridiculously famous and when it was just a more normal hour or two wait and didn’t think it was worth the two hours I spent.
Is it better now or was I just there on a bad day? Maybe. But to me it hasn’t been worth going back. Especially when you can literally just walk into Kreuz Market with no wait and get better or at least approximately the same. Without exaggeration, you can drive down to Kreuz Market, walk in, eat your food and drive back to Austin in less time than the fools in Austin waiting in line at La BBQ or Franklin’s.
But yes I HIGHLY recommend Kreuz Market. It’s my favorite Texas BBQ place period, it’s historic (oldest continually operated), and it would probably be in my top 10 BBQ places I’ve been to in North America (it depends on if you count Jewish pastrami as BBQ because then I’d have Langers, Lesters, Fameaux Viande Fumee and maybe Katz ahead of Kreuz and I’d probably have Kreuz just outside the Top 11. And yes despite the overly racist Texans celebration of their “BBQ” the origins of Texas BBQ is Jewish delis not John Waynesque cowboys). The Texas brisket is by far the best I’ve had and their sausage is the best smoked hard version I’ve had as well, BUT the best is their smoked prime rib or ribeye if they have it.
Here’s some of my photos from Kreuz with their sausage and brisket.
Saltlick for me is hard to really recommend because I don’t think I’ll go back again as it’s nowhere near as good as Kreuz and if for some reason I didn’t want to eat at Kreuz again, I’d want to try something else that’s new. But for a first timer I can see the appeal. It’s a nice enough drive out to the middle of nowhere and unlike La BBQ and Franklin the wait is usually only an hour or two. Plus there’s wineries, breweries and even a cidery (which is good even though the building is sketchy) nearby. But honestly I liked my own bbq beef ribs better than theirs.
Here’s my pics of Saltlick with their brisket, sausage (which is terrible at least compared to Kreuz, do NOT get), beer ribs and bison rib.
And what my beef ribs look like (baked for four hours at 225 then finished over direct flame).
Btw, Blue Owl Brewing in Austin is amazing IF you like sour beers (and I do, that’s my favorite varietals). It’s the best brewery I’ve found for specialised sour beers in the country.
Too bad about Salt Lick. I went there about 15 years ago and the food and atmosphere was really good.
Was in Austin last year for a conference and we had a group outing to Stiles Switch. I thought it was very good.
I have been using nahm plah (specifically Golden Boy) in my homemade bbq sauces for years. I prefer that (a little more intensely umami and it has a faint hint of “blue cheese” flavor) to the Nuoc cham I’ve tried (I keep Red Boat brand on hand for when I need a lighter fish sauce for things like seafood). The other thing I’ve found about the Golden Boy is that it improves with age once open (as does high end Chinese Dark/Black soy sauces). So I keep a bottle I’ve had for ten years or so for a few splashes when I need something intense and keep a newer bottle for regular use.
A friend of mine posted that he tried Freedman's BBQ in Austin and said it was pretty good. I think it was in Texas Monthly's Top 50. However, while in Austin don't forget about the tacos. I am a taco lover and they have some of the best up there.
https://austin.eater.com/maps/best-tacos-austin
https://austin.eater.com/maps/best-tacos-austin
The bbq at Salt Lick isn't that bad. You just have a lot of better choices out there when it comes to bbq eating.
Thanks! This and the recommendations from @lando_lakes make a solid list I can work from over the next year.
The sours at Jester King are unreal. Love their beer but it's very difficult to get in Florida.
I travel to Dallas area several times a month. I like Pecan Lodge if I am working downtown. I only eat the brisket or the hot mess. If I am staying north of downtown, I prefer hard eight. The atmosphere is not as good as Pecan Lodge but the food is better.
Going to be in Austin in a few days.
La Barbecue is on the the agenda for Sunday. What time should we get there to minimize wait time?
Any other restaurant or food truck suggestions? Hoping to have some good Mexican food.
La Barbecue is on the the agenda for Sunday. What time should we get there to minimize wait time?
Any other restaurant or food truck suggestions? Hoping to have some good Mexican food.
It's almost impossible to get Jester King in Florida. Only one place I can find it in Jacksonville
Make sure to watch your food portions on that trip.
Second this. Apparently, we need some non chain store Mexican spots in both Waco & Austin. Leaving tomorrow night for the start of our trek.
Thanks to everyone for all of the suggestions and help, it made a huge impact on our plan.
Are you guys going to the Gaines’ B&B and that’s why you are staying in Waco - cause there really not much there. Baylor’s football stadium on the Brazos River is kind of cool.
A friend suggested Hecho en Waco or The Ninfas
A friend suggested Hecho en Waco or The Ninfas
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Anchor bar has the worst wings I think I've ever eaten other than pizza delivery places.
I know they originated there, but they suck out load and just about any other wing place doesnthem far better.
Yup, staying at the Gaines spot. Eating at that Magnolia Table. We are scheduled for Ninfas, so thankee
In Austin, wifey has tentatively set us up for a place called Uncle Julio’s. Good spot for a dinner?
Damn. We try to stay away from chains on our road trips, we prefer local experiences.
Any other recommendations in Austin??
Maybe you had them on a bad day, I thought they were pretty good. Not the best wings I’ve had but better than 95% of them.
They’ve won a James Beard award and in the most recent Buffalo Wing Festival Competition they were selected the overall winner by the crowd as “Festival Favorite” and they came in third in the “professionally” judged Medium sauce competition. So they’re not usually garbage. But Like I said, maybe you had them when they were being poorly cooked for some reason.
I just asked a friend who went to school at Baylor and still goes back fairly often what her suggestion is for the area. I’ll let you know what she says if she gets back to me before the day is over.
I don't think that's it. I'm not a fan of Franks or the amount of butter they use. They weren't cooked bad. I just didn't like the sauce at all.
They weren't inedible. They just weren't nearly as good as wings I've had at other places. I went because of the nostalgia and was very disappointed.
So my friend who went to school in Waco highly suggested Lolita's for TexMex, but she says it's a dive that's only open for breakfast and lunch. She really enjoys the Mexican breakfast items. For other restaurants she said there wasn't any other decent Mexican or TexMex in Waco, but suggested George's on Speight Avenue for typical American/Texan food with "the best Big O Beer" whatever that is. Her other suggestion for dinner is Poppa Rollo's pizza for dinner.
I trust her opinion, we share restaurant suggestions as we both travel quite a bit and are foodies for the most part (we both prefer cheap, authentic dives and ethnic food to high end chefy places typically so I suppose we don't qualify as true foodies). So while I haven't been to Waco myself (no reason to really), I would have only gone to the places she suggested anyways.
I trust her opinion, we share restaurant suggestions as we both travel quite a bit and are foodies for the most part (we both prefer cheap, authentic dives and ethnic food to high end chefy places typically so I suppose we don't qualify as true foodies). So while I haven't been to Waco myself (no reason to really), I would have only gone to the places she suggested anyways.
For breakfast tacos - Veracruz in East Austin. It’s a (I think permanent) food truck. Best in town, hands down.
Almost as good as the BBQ trail, here is the kolache trail...
http://abc13.com/2252285/?sf192478808=1
Yeah, then you just don't like the original Buffalo style of wings. That's the proper application...they did it "correctly". Could be somewhat difficult to find much variation from that in Buffalo, as that's the definitive and what's expected.
I like the original style. I just like it applied by better cooks using better ingredients.
It's not abnormal for the first to not be the best. It happens quite often that someone comes up with an idea and others perfect it.
If you don't like Franks and you don't like butter...that's the original style. You don't have to like the original style best, or at all. That's what Buffalo Wild Wings is for. But the things you're naming are literally the key ingredients (2 of the 3) that make the item.
I'm happy to drag Anchor Bar for everything else on the menu, and I think they are overpriced. But barring something weird happening to yours, which you're saying didn't happen, it has nothing to do with the cooks or anything else, that just is a Buffalo chicken wing. If it was anything other than that, Buffalo people would not accept it.
There are plenty of places around the country and chains that have "perfected it" with variations, grilled, honey lemon, terriyaki, etc. I'm sure they are very good for the people that like those.
It's reminiscent of the first night it was ever in North Carolina, and went to a place called Lancaster's BBQ. Eastern North Carolina style. We asked the server "where is the barbecue sauce?" and were greatly perturbed when she pointed to the bottle on the table that looked like malt vinegar. Had never seen anything like it before, and first reaction was that it was terrible...where was the sweet Kraft style sauce? It wasn't terrible bbq of course...I just didn't like it.
It did not take long living there before I "got it" though...I never make barbecue now without a bottle of vinegar sauce (although I still like tomato based sauce too). But some people NEVER come around to vinegar sauce. I make it for the boy scout bbq I do, and half the guys are like WTF and the other have are begging for the recipe.
I like hot sauce and I like butter. I like the style. I just don't like that brand of hot sauce and I don't like that much butter.
I like Buffalo style hot wings. I just don't like their version even if it is the original.
As far as how they were cooked, I'd say they were average. Not great, but not bad. The sauce just wasn't good. Other places do it much better.
Just to upset Gary and Goldie - Hard Eight is horribly overpriced for what you get. There, I said it. For the same quality and half the price, I'm going to Rudy's 8 days a week.
It's possible that i don't mind paying for hard 8 because I'm charging back to my client when i eat there.
OK. So we are done with the first leg of our journey (Texas). We had a fantastic time, with some great food & people, with just one shitty restaurant experience.
We went to Houston first, on our way to San Antonio. In Houston, we ate breakfast at a great spot called The Breakfast Klub. Definitely a winner, we loved it. The chicken & waffle breakfast was great, and the atmosphere and service was awesome, would definitely recommend.
Then, in San Antonio, we ate lunch at a great new place called Dough Pizzeria Napoletana. Everything scratch made, and it really was incredible. I thought of Tribe in there, they had a pizza made with Water Buffalo mozzarella. I admit, I didn’t have the balls to try it, but my son did, and he said it was good. Scratch Gorgonzola, margharita pizzas and very good service, again, would recommend. The Riverwalk has seen better days. The entire area was run down, dirty and smelled like hot garbage. Disappointed, to say the least.
Next day, we began our drive to Austin. Along the way, we stopped at Smitty’s Market in Lockhart, TX. Place was old as dirt, people were nice but the pit and vibe was dark and dingy for me. Found out the history of the BBQ in Lockhart, very interesting. Basically, the dad died, left the building to the daughter & the actual business to the son. Everything was fine, until the sister wanted to triple the rent. The brother said no thanks, and he opened what is now Kreuz Market, which was far and away our favorite. Wow. The brisket was incredible, and I was blown away by the ribs. This place was really unbelievable, and I am sure I had an out of body experience eating the point of the brisket they served. Great place, would 100% recommend.
Then, we went to Black’s BBQ in Lockhart. It was underwhelming to say the least. They had a cheesy looking Buffet, and the atmosphere was dreary. No thanks. We walked in, then out.
Continuing our drive to Austin, we detoured to Driftwood, TX to check out The Salt Lick. After Goldie’s recommendation, we had to investigate. I agree 100% that this spot has a great Texas vibe. They are unique, in that they sit on over 60 acres. They have a vineyard now, and they make their own wine. I am not a wine drinker, but my wife tried a few of their offerings. The reds were completely undrinkable (she predicted that) because the best grapes can’t handle the Texas heat. However, she liked a Sangria they had, and a Pinot Grigio she liked. We bought a bottle of each, and Bud had a good evening.
We loved the atmosphere at Salt Lick, and their pit was incredible, but the BBQ was just OK. I would humbly (OK, not humbly) say that my BBQ is better. The pit master was a cool guy, let my kids mop the meat. Beautiful setting, but I don’t think I would go back.
Then, we finished our drive to Austin. We were tired & full, so we arrived at The Fairmont. Very nice pool area, and the hotel was new. We took a nap, then went to dinner at Bob’s Steakhouse. Pretty good, but I have had better. We would go back again, service was good. We had to get up early Tuesday morning, so we called it a day.
Tuesday morning. 5:30 AM, we arrived at Franklin’s BBQ. We were first in line! By 5:40, there were 20 people there, and by 7 AM, forget about getting anything. Franklin’s BBQ is a very cool experience. I highly recommend it to anyone. The vibe is laid back and chill, and the people on line were funny & in great spirits. My wife and I actually met & took a pic with Aaron Franklin himself! Just by chance, the boss & I went to get coffee at their kiosk (very good review by the wife, I don’t drink coffee), and Aaron was unloading his pickup. I saw him struggling, and helped him carry some fans inside. Very cool seeing the inside of the smokehouse. He was very nice, and even a bit nerdy, with cutoff dress pants. Back in the line, we were totally in the shade (some poor bastards were cooking in the sun, temp was 99 degrees at 10 AM). We ordered 3 pounds of brisket (2 Point, 1 Flat) 2 pounds of ribs & some sausage. Let me just say I was stupefied. Not kidding. I expected great brisket (and it really was the best I’ve ever had) but the ribs stunned me. I can not believe he gets the flavor & tenderness just using salt & pepper on ribs, but he does. Absolutely fantastic, and definitely worth the wait.
After lunch at Franlin’s, we went and walked around downtown Austin. Meh. Not a lot to see, and the entire area downtown was Very gay pride, super feminist and anti anything else. I believe in live and let live, but in this area, they appear militant against anyone outside their group, with everyone defensive and standoffish. Very interesting energy. Reminds me of the Village in NYC in the mid to late 1980s.
Jester King was fantastic!! Good call RRR!
For dinner we ate at a place called Polvos. Wife found it. The food was actually very good, but the service sucked, and the AC was busted. On a 102% afternoon. They should have told us before we sat down, but whatever. The experience at Polvos was disappointing, but the margaritas and food were good. Would not recommend or go back again.
Next morning, we drove to Waco, TX. Because we got there early, we went directly to the Magnolia Market. The place is really well planned out, with their silo’s, bakery, food trucks, and entire area well thought out. It struck me just how much attention & revenue the Gaines Family has brought to Waco. Amazing place, well done. Cupcakes were very good, so were the cookies.
Dinner was Ninfas. Awesome food. Just amazing, and the service was great. Could not recommend highly enough. If I lived in Waco, I would buy the place. Real talk.
Breakfast next morning was at the Gaines’ Magnolia Table restaurant. Very well done. We really enjoyed our breakfast, large portions. The biscuits were great, and the strawberry butter was very good. Service was over the top great, similar to a well run Chik-fil-a. Very happy to have gone there. Wife said coffee was not good though. Wifey was sour
. Then I got dragged running around the junk shops (wife called it antiquing, but it was junk). We visited the first fixer upper, Clint Harp’s place. They own it still, but don’t live there. They have it on Airbnb. The shop next door was very nice, with quality wood items. We bought a nice custom cutting board.
Went to the Dr Pepper museum. Interesting stuff there, but OMG, it was hotter than Satan’s ballsack. Real talk.
Dinner was Italian, a place called Portofinos. My dinner was good. Wifey and kids, not so much. Wife was sour about Texas wine corkage state law. The law in Texas is, if the establishment serves spirits, you CANNOT bring your own wine. Wifey=unhappy camper.
On our way right now to Pawhuska, OK. We stopped at a BBQ spot wifey saw on Food Paradise, called Smokin’ Joe’s Rib Ranch in Davis, OK. HOLY SHIT. If you EVER get a chance to try this place, you need to do it. We ordered brisket & ribs. They were OK. I got to talking with the owner (those of you that know me know how this conversation went). Anyway, he says to me, “I’m gonna knock your socks off”. Proceeds to bring out a tray full of their two specialty items. One is a jalapeño sausage my wife loved. But the showstopper was something I had never seen before. He brought out some rubbed up, slow smoked prime rib. Best thing I have eaten. Maybe in my life. It is possible. We are almost to Pawhuska.
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, they were outstanding, I’ll update again in a few days!!
Peace!
Bud
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