Patriots...

[Cubs79]

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:

Originally posted by Cubs79:

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:

Originally posted by Cubs79:

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:

Originally posted by Manch.:


The same Pete Carroll who couldn't win in New England or New York where Belichick (as an assistant head coach with the Jets) did?

Pete Carroll is not even close to being a great head coach.

To be fair, a coach can improve and "get it right." Nothing to say we shouldn't give him credit for improving his craft. I tink you're being a bit dismissive, though I certainly understand why.

That and having a cheap but productive QB helps...

His argument is no different than Belichick though. Belichick was ran out of Cleveland after having 4 losing seasons in 5 years, and his first season in NE he was 5-11. So Belichick had 5 losing seasons in his first 6 years of coaching. Did he vastly improve? Which I will certainly admit is possible, and I certainly think he is a good coach. Or, should Brady get more credit for the Patriots sudden turn around? I dont think there is any question Belichick is a really good coach. But, when you consider he has a losing record without Tom Brady, and especially when you throw in the cheating, is he really one of the elite coaches of all time? That, I think is debatable.

And Carroll made the playoffs in 2 out of 3 seasons with the Pats, so he wasn't a complete failure like Manch is trying to make him out to be.

Belichick did improve and it's pretty well documented in his biography and the football life. His team went something like 11-5 without Brady so there really is no debate about his skills.

People change, coaches improve.

I didnt say there was a debate about him being a good coach, I said there is a debate on just how good a coach he is with regards to being one of the elite coaches of all time. And no, one 11-5 season with Matt Cassel is not proof a coach is super elite. Cassel was a Pro Bowler and won a division with Todd Haley as his coach with the Chiefs and I dont think anyone thinks Haley is even a good head coach, much less an elite HC.

I'm not really ure why you continually go this route with these words but whatever. You said is elite status is debatable - I disagree. You win 11 games without your starting QB, that's impressive. Add 6 SB appearances: elite. Then you want to change to super elite - WTF does that even mean? You mince and parse tiny bits of things with people and then go overboard in your own descriptions.

I wouldn't waste any energy commenting in this manner other than you probably have good points to make but they get totally derailed with these tactics. Best of luck

A lot of people have argued he is the best of all time. No, I dont think he is in that group. Parcells, Landry, Walsh, Lombardi, Nolle, etc are all above Belichick IMO. YOu cannot be a proven cheater and just given the benefit of the doubt as the best of all time. That is why I dont think he can be considered elite. Is he a very good coach? Yes. Without the cheating would he be considered elite? Yes. But he did cheat, and you cannot separate the cheating from the coach anymore than you can separate the steroids from the baseball player, or from Lance Armstrong, or SMU paying their players from that program or whatever. Cheating is part of his legacy.

ANd you are giving him way to much credit for an 11-5 season with Cassel. Like I said, Cassel was a pro bowl QB with the Chiefs, so he wasnt exactly a terrible player. Not to mention, it wasnt that long ago that the Rams won a SB with a back up. While it is impressive, it isn't all that uncommon for teams to have good seasons with back up QBs.
This post was edited on 1/23 1:04 PM by Cubs79

 

[timbo37059]

79 do you remember Jameis as a thief and trouble maker or heisman winner and great college QB.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Cubs79]

Originally posted by timbo37059:
79 do you remember Jameis as a thief and trouble maker or heisman winner and great college QB.


Posted from Rivals Mobile

Nothing to do with what we are talking about. IN that regard, the answer can easily be both because they are not related. A person can be a jerk off the field (and I am speaking generally, not about Jameis before anyone jumps on me) , but still be a great player on the field. But cheating is an action that affects what happens on the field, and you cannot separate Belichick from that, you simply cant.


This post was edited on 1/23 3:45 PM by Cubs79

 

[timbo37059]

What a game that was awesome.