Public Transportation Benchmarking Studies?

[NDallasRuss]

If anyone has access to public transportation benchmarking studies, and would be willing to share, I'd appreciate you throwing me a bone.

Mostly looking for agency comparisons for key financial metrics - like farebox recovery.

I have a study from the ABBG, and some other data, but nothing from other groups like APTA.

Yeah, I know it's a shot in the dark, but maybe there's someone on here that can help.

 

[SoddyNole]

I don't think you are going to get the bone you are expecting posting those pictures.

 

[NDallasRuss]

I don't think you are going to get the bone you are expecting posting those pictures.

You're probably right. I didn't reconsider my earlier phrasing when I added the pics at the end.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Well now, this was a pleasant surprise.

 

[squiffynole]

If anyone has access to public transportation benchmarking studies, and would be willing to share, I'd appreciate you throwing me a bone.

Mostly looking for agency comparisons for key financial metrics - like farebox recovery.

I have a study from the ABBG, and some other data, but nothing from other groups like APTA.

Yeah, I know it's a shot in the dark, but maybe there's someone on here that can help.


Here's a little something for taking the time to click...

I'd suggest googling up the National Center for Transit Research and maybe the FDOT transit office.

 

[NDallasRuss]

I'd suggest googling up the National Center for Transit Research and maybe the FDOT transit office.

Thanks for that! I'll take a look.

 

[billanole]

Is there room on one of those bases up top for another? Jes axin for a friend.

 

[OrlandNole]

Here is all of the inidividual system data > https://www.transit.dot.gov/ntd

Other than farebox recovery, is there anything specific you're looking for?

 

[OrlandNole]

The document contains a peer agency review for Nashville > http://nmotion2015.com/wp-content/u...tate-of-the-System-20150714-_-peer-review.pdf

Is there a particular region or system you have in mind?

 

[Gonolz]

I'm not a smart man. I don't understand, but I did wait on a bus one time.

 

[NDallasRuss]

The document contains a peer agency review for Nashville > http://nmotion2015.com/wp-content/u...tate-of-the-System-20150714-_-peer-review.pdf

Is there a particular region or system you have in mind?

Thanks for these! I had the NTD stuff, but the Nashville one is really helpful.

No particular region or system. Moreso trying to find multimodal (bus, light rail, etc), supported/funded by multiple localities, etc. We're doing some benchmarking/best practices work for an agency and we're looking to compile as much information as we can get for them. We've got 10 or 12 so far from throughout the country - some we've reached out to for discussions, some we're just pulling financial information.

Again, thanks!

 

[NDallasRuss]

I'm not a smart man. I don't understand, but I did wait on a bus one time.

Current trends indicate that you may soon be the only one waiting for the bus. It's not a growth industry!

Seems like it'd be more cost effective for an agency to receive all the same funding and call/pay for an uber any time a customer needs a ride, than to pay for the fixed route transportation.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Current trends indicate that you may soon be the only one waiting for the bus. It's not a growth industry!

Seems like it'd be more cost effective for an agency to receive all the same funding and call/pay for an uber any time a customer needs a ride, than to pay for the fixed route transportation.

Depends on the city and its layout.

Too many cities are so scattered and broken up by limited entry subdivisions making public transportation less desirable. I think in due time these cities will regret the urban planners of two generations ago who thought the enclave mentality was a smart idea.

In cities like NYC, SF, Chi, etc... that were planned for growth (though still not effectively enough) public transportation systems will continue to increasingly be the lifeblood of the city.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Depends on the city and its layout.

Too many cities are so scattered and broken up by limited entry subdivisions making public transportation less desirable. I think in due time these cities will regret the urban planners of two generations ago who thought the enclave mentality was a smart idea.

In cities like NYC, SF, Chi, etc... that were planned for growth (though still not effectively enough) public transportation systems will continue to increasingly be the lifeblood of the city.

True - for the large, concentrated urban areas it will continue being the best solution for most. You're right. For the more spread out regional agencies, it's making less and less sense to run all of these routes and hope to get 10 riders per hour, and that fares will cover 20% of the cost.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

True - for the large, concentrated urban areas it will continue being the best solution for most. You're right. For the more spread out regional agencies, it's making less and less sense to run all of these routes and hope to get 10 riders per hour, and that fares will cover 20% of the cost.

I think for those markets, something like the uberpool model might make more sense - perhaps using minivans so you can get like 5-6 people in there. The dreaded public-private partnership!

Inevitably the operating cost on this stuff will come down with autonomous vehicles.

Part of the bigger question is how do you convince folks that it makes sense to use public or shared transpo rather than clogging the roads in their own car. You could cut traffic by like 40% if everyone just uberpooled - the decrease in traffic would likely make any slightly out of the way stop well worth it b/c you'd still be getting home faster than currently.

 

[NDallasRuss]

I think for those markets, something like the uberpool model might make more sense - perhaps using minivans so you can get like 5-6 people in there. The dreaded public-private partnership!

Inevitably the operating cost on this stuff will come down with autonomous vehicles.

Part of the bigger question is how do you convince folks that it makes sense to use public or shared transpo rather than clogging the roads in their own car. You could cut traffic by like 40% if everyone just uberpooled - the decrease in traffic would likely make any slightly out of the way stop well worth it b/c you'd still be getting home faster than currently.

That's the way a lot of them do it for paratransit. The gov't funds the program, the agency outsources the operation of the paratransit services to a private provider. The customer calls when they need a ride, and a van gets sent out to pick them up. Seems like it could work on the larger scale, as I don't think they're losing more money on para than they are on the regular buses.

The problem I see is that as soon as you cut traffic by 40%, everyone will want to get back in their cars and enjoy the faster commute. Then you immediately revert back to the heavier traffic. Human nature, I guess. People never want to just sit back and keep enjoying the mutual benefit - they all want to take advantage for themselves.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

The problem I see is that as soon as you cut traffic by 40%, everyone will want to get back in their cars and enjoy the faster commute. Then you immediately revert back to the heavier traffic. Human nature, I guess. People never want to just sit back and keep enjoying the mutual benefit - they all want to take advantage for themselves.

Once we're in a world where you can get from point a to point b 40% faster at a reasonable price, I've gotta think people will buy cars at a lower rate to avoid payments, insurance, gas, etc... thereby lessening the chance that they get in their own car (since they won't have one - or may have just one shared between a husband and wife)

Basically I'm betting that the wheel will start spinning in the opposite direction and we'll go from a car society to a shared ride society due to efficiency and cost savings.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Once we're in a world where you can get from point a to point b 40% faster at a reasonable price, I've gotta think people will buy cars at a lower rate to avoid payments, insurance, gas, etc... thereby lessening the chance that they get in their own car (since they won't have one - or may have just one shared between a husband and wife)

Basically I'm betting that the wheel will start spinning in the opposite direction and we'll go from a car society to a shared ride society due to efficiency and cost savings.

I think I'm just inherently more cynical about most of the people being willing to do things that are actually in their own best interests. Like when gas shot up to almost $4/gallon a few years ago. Everyone was eschewing large trucks and SUVs and going to smaller, more fuel efficient cars. When gas prices came down, a whole lot of people didn't stick with the more fuel efficient cars, even though it was still the better choice. Instead, they went right back to buying the larger gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs, even though most people don't really need anything that big.

This is the same reason why I think that, realistically, autonomous cars are going to have a hard time catching on for the majority. Even through they make all the sense, I think people won't adopt until the gov't forces everyone to (and likely funds/subsidizes it also). Otherwise, I think people see the autonomous cars lined up in the slower lanes as an opportunity to take their cars into the faster lanes and get places quicker. I also think that there will be a distrust from a lot of people that the autonomous cars are going to be able to make better decisions than they could make for themselves - and I think they especially won't trust the cars to make the right decisions related to crashes (i.e.: the "trolley problem"). I think some people will be quick to go autonomous, but I think it'll take several decades for it to become widely adopted.

Of course, I might be totally wrong. I just think people, in general, are pretty bad at doing what's actually the right/best things for themselves. Myself included.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I think I'm just inherently more cynical about most of the people being willing to do things that are actually in their own best interests. Like when gas shot up to almost $4/gallon a few years ago. Everyone was eschewing large trucks and SUVs and going to smaller, more fuel efficient cars. When gas prices came down, a whole lot of people didn't stick with the more fuel efficient cars, even though it was still the better choice. Instead, they went right back to buying the larger gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs, even though most people don't really need anything that big.

This is the same reason why I think that, realistically, autonomous cars are going to have a hard time catching on for the majority. Even through they make all the sense, I think people won't adopt until the gov't forces everyone to (and likely funds/subsidizes it also). Otherwise, I think people see the autonomous cars lined up in the slower lanes as an opportunity to take their cars into the faster lanes and get places quicker. I also think that there will be a distrust from a lot of people that the autonomous cars are going to be able to make better decisions than they could make for themselves - and I think they especially won't trust the cars to make the right decisions related to crashes (i.e.: the "trolley problem"). I think some people will be quick to go autonomous, but I think it'll take several decades for it to become widely adopted.

Of course, I might be totally wrong. I just think people, in general, are pretty bad at doing what's actually the right/best things for themselves. Myself included.

fair enough, and generally i'm a cynic about human nature as well. selfishness is the largest driving force behind human action and your scenario realistically bears that out.

there has to be some other incentive or catalyst, theoretically time or money saved being the only two that provide enough benefit to individuals that they'll modify their behavior to do what's best for everyone.

for autonomous vehicles, i can see cities turning car pool lanes into autonomous only lanes, where cars just zip at a steady 60-65 mph. got to think being stuck in a traffic jam while a lane or two of cars passing you buy in rush hour while their passengers screw around with snapchat filters will be enough for people to start considering the plunge.

i never understood why more cities didn't mark off bus-only lanes during peak hours to keep them moving fast and give people a visual of how they could be saving time and being more efficient. i guess car addicted voters woulda flipped out, inspite of how this would actually improve their quality of life.

 

[NDallasRuss]

for autonomous vehicles, i can see cities turning car pool lanes into autonomous only lanes, where cars just zip at a steady 60-65 mph. got to think being stuck in a traffic jam while a lane or two of cars passing you buy in rush hour while their passengers screw around with snapchat filters will be enough for people to start considering the plunge.

The problem with the HOV lanes here is that they extended it to include hybrid vehicles. Now so many people have hybrid/electric cars, that the HOV lanes are just as clogged up as the rest of the lanes, and no longer offer much benefit over the other lanes.

I like the thought of autonomous-only lanes on the roads, but they'd have to make sure not to grandfather anyone in, or extend it to any other kind of vehicle, etc. Keep it what it's supposed to be, and drivers seeing that lane move along way faster than the "traditional" lanes may cause them to want to make the change.