Tally Cops / Underage Drinking
- Thread starter JohnnieHolmesNole
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I know I shouldn't waste my time with this post.....
-Did you see any of them actually arrest anyone for underage alcohol?
-"Near military" meaning a duty belt that just about every US law enforcement officer wears?
-Ever think that drunk citizens become easy targets of crime? Maybe a presence of officers deter the bad guys from robbing, stealing, etc.
-Profitable..? Ever check state statute to see where the money from court costs/fees go? Not the arresting agency....
-Strikingly stern poses...? I'm not a cop, but isn't that how we want them to look? Better than acting immature, flirting with coeds, or looking fat and out of shape.
Maybe next time you should introduce yourself to them, and make small talk. Most will be honest and tell you what they are doing there. Maybe the city was paying overtime to be in that area, and they were there to make some extra money to pay bills....?
Cops continue to perpetuate the us vs them mentality that’s driven a wedge between them and much of society.
Protect and SERVE used to mean something. Now it’s to Punish and Monetize.
Protect and SERVE used to mean something. Now it’s to Punish and Monetize.
While there may be some truth in your statement, placing the blame on only one side is neither fair nor accurate. The general lack of respect for any authority figure has become pervasive in our society. That applies to parents, teachers, law enforcement, etc.
I’m sure cops get jaded by the portion of the public they’re more often than not dealing with.
Civil forfeiture is just another way that the war on drugs fuels corruption.
Another interesting aspect of self driving cars is that a significant driver of police interaction (traffic stops) will be largely eliminated.
Unless Driving While Bot becomes a thing.
The blame for people not respecting cops falls solely and completely on cops. Decades of corruption and abuse with the supposedly good cops looking the other way or activity covering up for the criminal ones have wrought exactly what they deserve. There is no logical reason left at this point to respect law enforcement in this country.
If cops want to be respected then they need to police their own, be accountable and lose the bs attitudes. They are public servants and their job is to serve the public, not consider themselves above their fellow citizens.
When I went to FSU I had a fake ID for a couple of years and was never carded. Then the law changed to 18 and I was 21 and got carded everywhere.
What I’ve read of the Fergeson Effect suggests that police presence has some benefit in some communities.
To blame all the issues of LE on them is silly and short sighted. I will agree they have some blame. Also a little concerned with the serious militarization of LE. I get SWAT teams, high risk warrant teams etc.
This week we had our PGA golf event and there were more than a few cops all decked out in Crye gear ($600 pants), gunned up and looked like they were getting ready for a patrol in Falluja. Just didn't see the need for that. Throw in metal detectors that you could avoid without any effort, woman were given a clear bag for the items in their purses and it seemed like a lot of over kill.
This week we had our PGA golf event and there were more than a few cops all decked out in Crye gear ($600 pants), gunned up and looked like they were getting ready for a patrol in Falluja. Just didn't see the need for that. Throw in metal detectors that you could avoid without any effort, woman were given a clear bag for the items in their purses and it seemed like a lot of over kill.
Agree. I think the interpretation of militarization is debatable. A cop in BDU pants, a vest, and a gun belt isn't military to me. Holding a rifle, with armored vehicles, helmet/shield, is more of a military look to me.
I think security like that is something that everyone is going to have to get used to. Unfortunately, the next mass shooting will get criticized, and many times law enforcement will get the blame because they didn't do something/plan enough.
I think law enforcement in reality is much different that what is perceived. Society looks at them and comes up with their own idea of what they are/should be, when in reality it couldn't be further from the truth. I did a ride along once in Jacksonville, and it really enlightened me. Working in sales, I couldn't imagine society criticizing my every move, forced to wear a camera all the time, tracking my every move with GPS in a car, and the stress of having to deal with the crazy stuff that occurs on a daily basis. I could never do it, especially for pay that isn't great. While I may not agree with some of their tactics/ideas, I still support them.
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Yeah, but working in sales probably doesn’t involve carrying a gun and good odds to be cleared if you use it.
Definitely a different world.
The best way for me to answer this without generating a report or closing down this thread is BULL!
I appreciate your reply as well as you leaving this thread open.
I chose my wording specifically to focus on one side because it's that one side who are trained professionals. They've attended academies and been trusted with a badge and firearm. Civilians are be definition, untrained civilians. I don't applaud or condone the disrespect of cops that you see sometimes in cell phone videos. However, if a call center rep is trained to not reply to or engage with a disrespectful customer, it's startling to see cops not only engage in crude dialogue but at times use it to escalate the situation.
There needs to be more accountability for actions and conduct unbecoming of a police officer. There needs to be more cops getting out of the car, walking around, shaking hands, petting babies, hugging dogs, and tickling elmos. Partly because it matters and partly for PR purposes.
Personally I take two approaches around cops 1) say nothing and make myself invisible and 2) be polite and don't make any quick movements -- I do this because I'm scared of them. Most are probably good but I don't want to find the bad one by accident.
Once upon a time a police car would roll up in our driveway and I'd be like "oh cool, a cop!" with a sense of envy. Now I would basically tremble in fear and freeze / not move my hands at all. Something changed and it's on them to undo it.
I am not trying to paint all law enforcement with the same brush as others are within this thread. There are some bad cops. It would be absolutely foolish to deny that. However, I do believe the good outnumbers the bad by a wide margin. The problem is, police officers doing their job properly with respect to all involved does not make headlines. All you tend to see are the bad apples.
I would be very surprised if these cops were there to arrest people for underage drinking. For one, AB & T agents are generally the ones who do this type of operation, and they are targeting the establishments for selling to underage drinkers. Most likely, TPD was in that area for another reason, and it probably had nothing to do with Pot Belly's.
‘good’ cops rarely, if ever, turn in the bad cops we know exist.
So how ‘good’ are they?
While there are definitely too many of the cops on the "bad side" and too many who cover and excuse because "It might be me one day", I do believe most officers are good people trying to do their best and who work under difficult circumstances.
The real issue to me isn't the officers. It is the system the officers are tasked with enforcing. I'll try not to get too political, but our drug laws, our economic systems, our systems of policing (Broken Windows Policing), and many of our judicial systems create a huge enterprise that operates extremely unfairly, especially towards those in the inner cities. I won't go any further, in respect of the rules here, but it's not possible to really look at correcting the issues we have without digging deep into the underlying systems that have created these problems.
The real issue to me isn't the officers. It is the system the officers are tasked with enforcing. I'll try not to get too political, but our drug laws, our economic systems, our systems of policing (Broken Windows Policing), and many of our judicial systems create a huge enterprise that operates extremely unfairly, especially towards those in the inner cities. I won't go any further, in respect of the rules here, but it's not possible to really look at correcting the issues we have without digging deep into the underlying systems that have created these problems.
You have to have your head pretty firmly buried in the sand to question his post as the "thin blue line" is a well known and documented phenomenon of corruption.
Of course the big problem is that we are often left without evidence since the very people charged with handling the evidence or testifying are the ones covering up the crimes. Nonetheless thanks to cameras and the very rare honest cop we do have ample documentation.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/12173778
What's even more disturbing is seeing what happens to the few honest cops that actually do their job when other cops need policing or corruption and criminal activity needs to be exposed. It's not pretty. Death threats are not uncommon (and sometimes carried out) and firings and ostrization are nearly universal.
https://m.ranker.com/list/police-de...yLI9Kw.4&utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/
And if you want to see some really scary stuff read up on Sean Suiter, slain with his own gun the day before he was set to testify against other officers.
I have personally heard first person from cops that have admitted to me that they carry drugs and even weapons to plant on people. And that they will purposely lie under oath to get a conviction when the actual evidence doesn't support it. There are numerous documented examples of that as well.
And we need to let go of the myths of underpaid cops with dangerous jobs. The pay for cops is better than most professions with equivalent requirements and the danger of the job is less than many, many other jobs. It usually ranks somewhere around 17 behind farmers, fishermen, construction workers and garbage men, all of which performs duties we all depend on. And cops do make the news when they actually do something good out of the ordinary, so spare me that complaint. No one deserves to be in the news for just doing their job alright. If you drive a bus and don't crash, you don't make the news, when you crash the bus you do.
The trust and respect has been deservedly lost.
My last interaction with TPD he lied to my face falsely accusing me of an infraction I know I didn’t commit. He said I was going 20mph over the limit on Tenn St after a Garnet and Gold game a few years ago.
Fact is I went the speed limit from the time he pulled behind me when I turned off Stadium because he was on my butt from the light at the old Bills. He pulled me over at the Temple on the East side of town.
My assumption is they ran the tag on my wife’s car and found her license was expired at the time. Made up the speeding thing as a cause to pull us over and hope to find something like the scent of alcohol.
When I told him that was bull and that I’d seen him from the time he was on my tail at Bills. He then told me he’d do me a favor and only write me up for 10 over.
Put cameras on all of them all the time as far as I’m concerned.
Someone link this post for Tennnole17, please.
I've had three tickets over the decades where the speed trap cop just blatantly lied about my speed. Tow of them were know. Speed traps that I was aware of and going under the speed limit. The other was in Hawaii and another speed trap situation where the speed limit rapidly changes. The cop claimed that I had already passed the change down to 35, but that wasn't true. In fact the sign was still in front of me when I pulled over. We both knew good and well that I wasn't going to fly out to Hawaii in a month to go to court though. I sent in documentation, pictures as well as my and my wife's sworn statement, but of course they wouldn't be denied their tourist tax.
I agree that they need cameras on them at all times. And all stops for citations and arrests and shootings need to be available to the public for review.
This. We have a problem in society. I would invite any of you that is concerned about how cops act to do a ride along with your city PD and see how they’re treated by the public, it’s eye opening. Also, police work for elected officials, and they receive direction and guidance from them. You’d be hard pressed to find a mayor candidate that campaigns on less cops or a more reactive force, that’s because anarchy is bad.
Can we please acknowledge that the police are protecting us when we are not interacting with them? Have any of you been the victim of a home invasion robbery this year? Raped? Beaten? Had major items stolen?
For the majority of people who honestly said "no" to the above questions, do you think you were spared these misfortunes because the entirety of the criminal underworld is afraid of you?
For the majority of people who honestly said "no" to the above questions, do you think you were spared these misfortunes because the entirety of the criminal underworld is afraid of you?
I have spent my entire life breaking laws. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of times that cops have witnessed me breaking the law without arresting me, citing me or busting my balls. In all of those times, I have been cited a total of 3 times. With a single exception, where the officer was being a jerk (and it happened to be an underage drinking situation at FSU), the police have always been professional and courteous to me and exercised restraint when they had the authority to cause me problems. In the one situation, I was a complete jerk back to the officer, called him out in front of a group of my friends and his partner and still did not get arrested or cited for anything.
Maybe I'm just lucky, but from my purely personal point of view, good officers who use their discretion to let the small stuff slide are the overwhelming majority of the officers and the bad apples are by far the exception.
Maybe I'm just lucky, but from my purely personal point of view, good officers who use their discretion to let the small stuff slide are the overwhelming majority of the officers and the bad apples are by far the exception.
and yes, I recognize the irony of my signature pic. That pic goes out to the officer from TPD who was a jerk to me many years ago.
It's pretty well known the single biggest deterent to burglary is the burglar thinking the owner is home. Burglars are much more concerned about homeowners than they are cops.
Unfortunately, those really intent on hurting people aren't really dissuaded by police, and understandably so when reviewing the off duty cops action in the pulse shooting and the on duty officers actions in the recent school shooting.
You being home is a disincentive to burglars because they know you will call the police. With no police in the equation (seeing as you have decided to remove them completely) then they show up at your door with pitbulls, flamethrowers, stun guns, Galils, or anything else they think will help them get the job done (whatever job that may be).
Or do you keep a railgun in your living room?
Not the entirety of it, but some of it, which is better than none of it.
"In a survey of criminals, Professors James D. Wright and Peter Rossi of the Social and Demographic Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts conducted a study in 1982 and 1983 paid for by the U.S. Department of Justice. (Professor Rossi was a former President of the American Sociological Association.) The researchers interviewed 1,874 imprisoned felons in ten states.
57% said that most criminals feared armed citizens more than the police.
40% of the felons said that they had been deterred from committing a particular crime, because they believed that the potential victim was armed.
34% of the criminal respondents said that they had been scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed citizen."
Chris Rock's most recent Netflix special:
On the police
I don’t think they pay cops enough. I don’t think they pay police enough. And you get what you pay for. Here’s the thing, man. Whenever the cops gun down an innocent black man, they always say the same thing. “Well, it’s not most cops. It’s just a few bad apples. It’s just a few bad apples.” Bad apple? That’s a lovely name for murderer. That almost sounds nice. I’ve had a bad apple. It was tart, but it didn’t choke me out. Here’s the thing. Here’s the thing. I know being a cop is hard. I know that * is dangerous. I know it is, okay? But some jobs can’t have bad apples. Some jobs, everybody gotta be good. Like … pilots. Ya know, American Airlines can’t be like, “Most of our pilots like to land. We just got a few bad apples that like to crash into mountains. Please bear with us.”
On the police
I don’t think they pay cops enough. I don’t think they pay police enough. And you get what you pay for. Here’s the thing, man. Whenever the cops gun down an innocent black man, they always say the same thing. “Well, it’s not most cops. It’s just a few bad apples. It’s just a few bad apples.” Bad apple? That’s a lovely name for murderer. That almost sounds nice. I’ve had a bad apple. It was tart, but it didn’t choke me out. Here’s the thing. Here’s the thing. I know being a cop is hard. I know that * is dangerous. I know it is, okay? But some jobs can’t have bad apples. Some jobs, everybody gotta be good. Like … pilots. Ya know, American Airlines can’t be like, “Most of our pilots like to land. We just got a few bad apples that like to crash into mountains. Please bear with us.”
I certainly think there has been a decline in police and the way they interact with community, overall. Which of course is not to say there are not a TON of great cops. There are just a lot more bad ones, with bad attitudes to those they protect and serve. They have become much more authoritarian, never to be questioned.
I think it is for a host of reasons. The unending war on drugs eroding sympathy/humanity, militarization of all police (not just SWAT) producing warrior wannabes, and a very strong culture of protection/covering up behavior of bad officers within their own ranks are likely big ones.
When I see them in public, take for example directing traffic at football games, most (not all) are glaring, irritable, aggravated, and have overall sour dispositions as they tersely direct pedestrians and cars. It was not like that 20 years ago when they would try to engage with people in the community, with smiles and even the chop.
I think it is for a host of reasons. The unending war on drugs eroding sympathy/humanity, militarization of all police (not just SWAT) producing warrior wannabes, and a very strong culture of protection/covering up behavior of bad officers within their own ranks are likely big ones.
When I see them in public, take for example directing traffic at football games, most (not all) are glaring, irritable, aggravated, and have overall sour dispositions as they tersely direct pedestrians and cars. It was not like that 20 years ago when they would try to engage with people in the community, with smiles and even the chop.
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My wife made me get rid of the rail gun as the capacitors took up the entire garage and she found out what the power bill would be to charge the thing up. As soon as I get the reactor working in the shed though I'll put it back in. You never know when someone might try to break into the house with a tank.
Seriously, though you're letting your imagination go pretty wild with burglars. No one is showing up to the average house with an army and anyone with that much value in their home to worry about that can have their own security, and usually do.
The average criminal wants no conflict at all and even a hardened one will avoid dogs and fears the armed homeowner above all; Armed with small arms like a pistol or shotgun, not military weapons.
Yes, however I will say that cops do offer some deterent, however it is overstated and the current state of law enforcement is a worse evil in my opinion, and backed by personal experience as I've been robbed by cops far more than by anyone else. At least if a burglar tries to rob me I can defend myself, and not get jailed or killed for it.
This has turned into a classic "cops are evil thread"....
I've never had any issues with Police. I have had unpleasant experience with certain officers, but I don't associate those incidents with the entire service of policing.
Also, I tend to try and make conversation with my local civil servants- fireman, police, the ladies at the car tag place. The public generally takes a big dump on these people, so I try and shoot the ish with them when I can, so they know the entire public doesn't despise them. I really don't see the harm in just being courteous to other humans, as angry as some of them make me.
Also, citing Chris Rock is a deal breaker.
I've never had any issues with Police. I have had unpleasant experience with certain officers, but I don't associate those incidents with the entire service of policing.
Also, I tend to try and make conversation with my local civil servants- fireman, police, the ladies at the car tag place. The public generally takes a big dump on these people, so I try and shoot the ish with them when I can, so they know the entire public doesn't despise them. I really don't see the harm in just being courteous to other humans, as angry as some of them make me.
Also, citing Chris Rock is a deal breaker.
In the 80's a lot of cops got killed when we started the drug war (Much of our problem is due to our drug war). We got really terrified (Primarily of poor black men smoking Crack) and changed a bunch of our laws and our policing tactics. As a result, departments decided they'd become outgunned, so they started collecting military weapons, we changed our policing tactics to "broken window policing" which was the idea that if, in high crime areas, we focused very heavy policing on small crimes, that we'd stop it before it became bigger crimes. This was all good, except that it lead to a great deal of harassment for people doing very minor things. If police worked in our white suburbs in the way they approach average citizens in poor inner city neighborhoods we'd be in an uproar as well. As a result, people stopped seeing the police in those neighborhoods as their to help, and more as an oppressor.
So we're left with police who now have been trained to view all people (Especially if they're a certain color, dressed a certain way, in certain neighborhoods) as a threat and dangerous before even the most minor interactions take place, we've started having police cause interactions with people over the smallest issues (While viewing them as dangerous), we've militarized our police forces and also changed training protocols to focus on the officer coming home safe (Over the citizen they're working with). I understand it, if I were an officer I'd rather live with having killed someone than be dead myself, but it's not an attitude we should be training into officers. The policies on killing a citizen are far more lax than even a trained soldier is allowed, and we as a society (Especially in white America who don't have the same interactions with police) have been trained that police are always hero's, always in the right, and if they killed someone it had to have been for a good reason).
It's all a problem.
So again I say, our issue isn't so much with the bad apples, there will always be some corrupt cops. The problem is with the system that turns good cops into bad cops by forcing them to treat all citizens as criminals, to harass people over the smallest crimes, equipped them like they're entering a war zone, and then trained them to shoot and ask questions later.
If we want to fix this, we change our approach on drugs first, and then we make broken windows policing illegal. At that point we can then analyze further to see how to de-escalate tensions and keep both police and citizens safe.
1. Whatever that means.
2. Nothing untrue about the notion that some professions can't have bad apples.
Chris Rock writes material for reaction, not for accuracy.
But since you want to to debate the merits of the statement...
You've never had a bad pilot? Rough landing? A plane has never crashed? Are pilots, in general, disrespected as a whole because that one guy in Houston Hobby had a rough landing?
Pilots are trained for YEARS, and constantly re certified. Why the hell do we put up with ANY mistakes from them? They should be all good apples, right?
I've flown over two million miles on commercial airlines. Can't recall ever having a bad pilot. Rough landing here or there sure, and a few bad stewardesses/flight attendents, but never an obviously bad pilot.
The big difference is though, a pilot that makes a few mistakes or one major one isn't going to be a pilot anymore. It's not the fact that there are some bad apples that's the major problem, it's the fact that the bad apples aren't removed from the bunch. That old saying still holds water.
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