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Teacher shoots daughter boyfriend at 3am

CobNole

CobNole

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Mar 29, 2002
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At 3am yesterday morning, a 5th grade teacher at my son's school (he's in 6th) shot the boyfriend (turned 18 at midnight) of his 14 year old daughter. What the newspapers aren't reporting is the father caught the boyfriend in bed having sex with his daughter. The father has been charged with 1st degree assault.

What would you do if you caught your daughter having sex with her boyfriend? In this case, she's a minor and now he's an adult. Not sure if he will be charged with anything.
 
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When my daughter is 14 (almost 11 now) and she is having sex with anyone... I will consider it a HUGE failure on my part.

Was this guy OK with a 17 y.o. "dating" his daughter or was this all unbeknownst to him?
 
CobNole said:
At 3am yesterday morning, a 5th grade teacher at my son's school (he's in 6th) shot the boyfriend (turned 18 at midnight) of his 14 year old daughter. What the newspapers aren't reporting is the father caught the boyfriend in bed having sex with his daughter. The father has been charged with 1st degree assault.

What would you do if you caught your daughter having sex with her boyfriend? In this case, she's a minor and now he's an adult. Not sure if he will be charged with anything.
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Well he wasn't committing a crime (Florida's Romeo and Juliet laws say a four year gap is fine so a 14 yo can bang an 18 yo and a 16 yo can bang a 20 yo), so he can't claim he was stopping the commission of a crime as I'm sure the girlfriend invited him in. So hopefully the ahole gets the book thrown at him.

Unless it's rape, no father has any business literally shooting a Romeo since it's probably his fault said Juliet was seeking attention before mature enough to handle it. So in this case as you described (I haven't looked up anything and assuming you've accurately described everything), I have zero sympathy for the father in question.

Now that's completely different than when a father catches a rapist with their underage daughter or son and kills or pummels them. Then my sympathy is entirely with the father.

Plus, I'm a believer in the Swedish parental teachings on sex. Basically educate don't quash/stigmatize sexual feelings and TADA! They have far less teenage pregnancies, STDs and stigma associated with sex and less young lives are ruined over the incompetent abstinence teaching preached here.
 
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FSUTribe76 said:
Well he wasn't committing a crime (Florida's Romeo and Juliet laws say a four year gap is fine so a 14 yo can bang an 18 yo and a 16 yo can bang a 20 yo), so he can't claim he was stopping the commission of a crime as I'm sure the girlfriend invited him in. So hopefully the ahole gets the book thrown at him.

Unless it's rape, no father has any business literally shooting a Romeo since it's probably his fault said Juliet was seeking attention before mature enough to handle it. So in this case as you described (I haven't looked up anything and assuming you've accurately described everything), I have zero sympathy for the father in question.

Now that's completely different than when a father catches a rapist with their underage daughter or son and kills or pummels them. Then my sympathy is entirely with the father.

Plus, I'm a believer in the Swedish parental teachings on sex. Basically educate don't quash/stigmatize sexual feelings and TADA! They have far less teenage pregnancies, STDs and stigma associated with sex and less young lives are ruined over the incompetent abstinence teaching preached here.
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Did this law change recently because I thought there was still a legal consent age of 16? First I've heard of this 4 year gap concept...
 
FSUTribe76 said:
Well he wasn't committing a crime (Florida's Romeo and Juliet laws say a four year gap is fine so a 14 yo can bang an 18 yo and a 16 yo can bang a 20 yo), so he can't claim he was stopping the commission of a crime as I'm sure the girlfriend invited him in. So hopefully the ahole gets the book thrown at him.

Unless it's rape, no father has any business literally shooting a Romeo since it's probably his fault said Juliet was seeking attention before mature enough to handle it. So in this case as you described (I haven't looked up anything and assuming you've accurately described everything), I have zero sympathy for the father in question.

Now that's completely different than when a father catches a rapist with their underage daughter or son and kills or pummels them. Then my sympathy is entirely with the father.

Plus, I'm a believer in the Swedish parental teachings on sex. Basically educate don't quash/stigmatize sexual feelings and TADA! They have far less teenage pregnancies, STDs and stigma associated with sex and less young lives are ruined over the incompetent abstinence teaching preached here.
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I believe he is in Alabama these days.
 
EveryoneBleedsGarnet said:
Did this law change recently because I thought there was still a legal consent age of 16? First I've heard of this 4 year gap concept...
Click to expand...

I'm not a criminal lawyer although I'm required to know those crimes related to health and criminal law backwards and forwards. So this is outside my ordinary expertise but I will try to explain it as a layman who has not read the case law nor practiced it.

Basically the age of consent in Florida is 18. Assuming they're able to physically and mentally give consent, anyone from 18 to 125 can bang an 18yo. 16 and 17 yos are considered a special class of minors in Florida, and so while it's ridiculously scuzzy, 18-23 yos can bang 16 and 17 yos. But if you're 24 or over and bang a 16 yo then jail time. The Rome and Juliet 4 year gap from 14 is not a 100% get out of jail free card, it is a 100% get off the sexual predator list but you can technically be charged if a 16 yo has sex with a 14 yo. Apparently however, a lot if not most judges and juries use this as "discretion" to wipe out the crime in total and either find the culprit not guilty or guilty with adjudication withheld and some minor slap on the wrist like community service and an STD course. As a practical matter they would likely all be handled by the prosecutor dropping the case and sending them to some type of pre-trial diversion program like Teen Court. But I perhaps oversold it as NO Crime occurred, it's probably better to say no crime which would result in jail time occurred and likely it would be thrown out. Now to finish my "edumacationing" there is a special hell and special Florida criminal penalties for anyone who has sex with someone under 12.
 
FSUTribe76 said:
Well he wasn't committing a crime (Florida's Romeo and Juliet laws say a four year gap is fine so a 14 yo can bang an 18 yo and a 16 yo can bang a 20 yo), so he can't claim he was stopping the commission of a crime as I'm sure the girlfriend invited him in. So hopefully the ahole gets the book thrown at him.

Unless it's rape, no father has any business literally shooting a Romeo since it's probably his fault said Juliet was seeking attention before mature enough to handle it. So in this case as you described (I haven't looked up anything and assuming you've accurately described everything), I have zero sympathy for the father in question.

Now that's completely different than when a father catches a rapist with their underage daughter or son and kills or pummels them. Then my sympathy is entirely with the father.

Plus, I'm a believer in the Swedish parental teachings on sex. Basically educate don't quash/stigmatize sexual feelings and TADA! They have far less teenage pregnancies, STDs and stigma associated with sex and less young lives are ruined over the incompetent abstinence teaching preached here.
Click to expand...

Tribe you are way off base here. The Romeo and Juliet law only applies to the offender not having to register as a sex offender if certain conditions are met. The law does not waive the statutory age requirement for consent.

http://www.flsenate.gov/PublishedContent/Session/2012/InterimReports/2012-214cj.pdf
 
vevois23 said:
Tribe you are way off base here. The Romeo and Juliet law only applies to the offender not having to register as a sex offender if certain conditions are met. The law does not waive the statutory age requirement for consent.

http://www.flsenate.gov/PublishedContent/Session/2012/InterimReports/2012-214cj.pdf
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FSUTribe76 said:
See what I said as a followup,
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Glad you clarified, Tribe. I was about to say the same as vevois until I saw your followup. Also, I believe it lowers the charge to sexual battery instead of statutory rape, which is what helps to, in all likelihood, eliminate the possibility of jail time and sex offender status.
 
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Doesn't matter. You can't shoot a trespasser who isn't threatening anyone. The guy shot someone. He's going down.

Edited to be clear you can't shoot someone. That was kind of an important typo.
 
Last edited:
I honestly don't know how I would react if I walked in on my 14 year old daughter having sex in my house especially with a boyfriend so much older. I would hope I wouldn't react similarly but I can't guarantee it. Just trying to be truthful.
 
coloradonoles said:
At what age do kids have the power to grant consent to enter the parents house?
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AllNoles said:
Doesn't matter. You can shoot a trespasser who isn't threatening anyone. The guy shot someone. He's going down.
Click to expand...

You can???

Not really where I was going with my question, I was just curious...

But since you did... "isn't threatening anyone" is awful ambiguous isn't it? And in Texas you most assuredly can shoot someone in your house, while trespassing... it's called the "Castle Doctrine" and it actually extends to your vehicle or workplace.
 
coloradonoles said:
At what age do kids have the power to grant consent to enter the parents house?
Click to expand...

Not my area of the law again so I'm talking strictly as a layman and I'm not bothering to look up case law or statutes. But my understanding is that there isn't a clear cut age per se when it comes to minors consenting to entering the home or accepting service, it's does the person have a "reasonable belief" that the minor has the mental and physical capacity to consent. So in other words a three yo can't consent to let police or a "boyfriend" into the home, but a 14 yo of normal cognition? Almost assuredly that would.

The more interesting legal argument is can an owner (the father) bar other people (like Romeo) against the will of the possessor/agent (in the case Juliet) prior to her allowing Romeo in? With no case law or prior study, I would assume that unless Juliet told Romeo that her father wasn't allowing him to be present that any violation of the owner (father)'s wishes would only impute to Juliet and if Romeo reasonably believed he could be there thanks to Juliet's permission then he could NOT be charged with trespass.
 
coloradonoles said:
You can???

Not really where I was going with my question, I was just curious...

But since you did... "isn't threatening anyone" is awful ambiguous isn't it? And in Texas you most assuredly can shoot someone in your house, while trespassing... it's called the "Castle Doctrine" and it actually extends to your vehicle or workplace.
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LOL, I messed up on phone. You CAN'T.
 
you can't shoot people unless you are in danger of your life, or someone else's life.

a few states have a limited exception where you catch your spouse In flagrante delicto with someone else. the limit is that it mitigates the crime from murder to manslaughter (assuming you are successful in killing the person). my buddy did some research for our crim law prof on this for course credit (she was editing a treastise). the interesting thing he told me is that in some states, it applies to you shooting the third party, while in other states it applies only to you shooting your spouse. he said no state had this for both the third party and your spouse, so you had to know which person to shoot. and he also said a good number of states didn't make any exception for this.
 
Not sure why, but this may have been the funniest thing I have read in a long time - "no state had this for both the third party and your spouse, so you had to know which person to shoot" I guess Eminem's Stan would not have been able to rely on this no matter what.

I wonder how many states still have that idea on the books at all. It sounds like it's tied to the old "alienation of affection" rules that have fallen away as we see spouses as individuals with choices.
 
People in Alabama reading this are probably thinking that, at age 14 and still living at home, the girl's a spinster.
 
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Is it weird for a 18 year old (just turned that day btw) to bang a 14 year old?

14 and 15 is freshman in high school right?

17-18 is senior in high school, right?

So we are mid school year at this point. I remember when I was a senior I was hooking up with freshman girls by this time of year. I was 18 at this point.

Kinda scary that was happening, but at the time I don't remember it being weird at all.
 
Why would you be mad at the boyfriend? Your daughter -- the one you have control over -- is the one with whom you should be upset. Maybe you didn't do such a great job raising the little Princess.
 
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If I were a betting man I would wager he never does a day in a prison. Rural Alabama town, jury of his peers, he will never be found guilty of anything beyond assault and will be given probation. Which if I were on the jury that would be my vote. I don't care how well you raise 'em, a 14yo girl can easily be swayed by a more "mature" older guy. If the girl were 16 I might feel differently.
 
AllNoles said:
Not sure why, but this may have been the funniest thing I have read in a long time - "no state had this for both the third party and your spouse, so you had to know which person to shoot" I guess Eminem's Stan would not have been able to rely on this no matter what.

I wonder how many states still have that idea on the books at all. It sounds like it's tied to the old "alienation of affection" rules that have fallen away as we see spouses as individuals with choices.
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not sure where these concepts originated, probably judge-made law to deal with a specific injustice. You are still going to jail, its just that the law recognized that you would be slightly out of your mind and therefore the crime is reduced to manslaughter from murder. Just like if you run someone over with your car, the law recognizes that an intentional, planned act (murder) is different form a reckless accident (manslaughter).
 
The principles actually developed based on the idea that the spouse was property. The idea was little different than if someone was taking your lawnmower and you were stopping them.
 
EveryoneBleedsGarnet said:
Maybe it looked like a home invasion/rape situation? In which case he could get off without a charge.
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In my Trial Ad class we had a similar scenario (I'm sure many people used the same book) where the father shoots her daughter's suitor and claims he thought it was home invasion.....when it was arguable that he knew who he was shooting. It will obviously depend on the facts, but I'm betting he is charged, pleads down to some charge they can make stick and it all pretty much goes away with little to no jail time.
 
More Kirk Less Spock said:
In my Trial Ad class we had a similar scenario (I'm sure many people used the same book) where the father shoots her daughter's suitor and claims he thought it was home invasion.....when it was arguable that he knew who he was shooting. It will obviously depend on the facts, but I'm betting he is charged, pleads down to some charge they can make stick and it all pretty much goes away with little to no jail time.
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I'd imagine if his daughter said the right things in court, she could be his get out of jail free card, regardless of what actually happened. Is the victim alive by the way? That would obviously change things a bit...
 
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coloradonoles said:
When my daughter is 14 (almost 11 now) and she is having sex with anyone... I will consider it a HUGE failure on my part.
Click to expand...

As good a job as we do as parents, kids will do almost what they want, regardless, that doesn't make you a failure, believe me, because if that's the case, where I am judged on my kid's actions, then I am the biggest failure in the world, and I know I am not because we taught all the right things, including love, and that didn't matter to my son.
 
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