The most dangerous offense: Contempt of Cop
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She did argue with him, she had attitude in ever comment she made and refused to follow directions. That will get you in trouble with the law in a hurry, as was the case here.
You want to be an idealist, start spouting off about what you think your rights are and stand up to the LEO and start telling them what you are and are not going to do, go ahead big guy, I want to stand back and watch that. Better to defer your anger, be mature, respectful and fight another day and get his badge as you stated you would.
I actually had an experience similar to this, that proves my point. My wife was the designated driver coming home from a late dinner, got pulled for suspected DUI, I was in the passenger seat. Cop was a complete asshat, very similar to this, was barking orders, demeaning her education as an RN, interrupting every answer she gave him etc., he was certainly trying to instigate a response. In fact this cop was worse then the video above. Did my wife get angry, have an attitude, start telling the cop what she would and would not do? Nope, kept her cool, did what he asked, no ticket, not arrested for anything, went on her way. We later filed a complaint with the Chief of Police and Mayor, they did an investigation and that idiot was fired. That's how you handle a situation like this.
By the way, I don't defer to anyone, bullies or anyone else for that matter. I fight my battles when I have to and smart enough to know when not to fight them. This is one of those cases.
Your really gonna give a LEO a hard time over an improper lane change charge? Really? Your going to let a cop bait you into an argument that escalates into your arrest, just to prove your point? Come on man, I know your smarter then that.
Both people are at fault in this situation, plain and simple.
100% false.
Quote her, before he tries to drag her out of her car, where she argued with him. Go ahead, I'll give you all the time you need.
Bull shit, either one of them could have defused the situation had they wanted to, neither one did, so here we are. Both are at fault.
What would you have done in this case had the situation been the same? Responded the same way and get arrested?
I gotta get my payroll out. I'll look at the video again when I can and get what I deem are her arguing with him. As I just stated above, either one of them could have defused the situation had they wanted to, neither one did. Both are at fault.
Wow. To each their own, but I see nothing wrong with how that stop was handled. When did Americans all of a sudden think it was their right to not obey cops and treat them with such disrespect?? I am quite suspicious of how she ended up dead, but this woman was a complete idiot and brought the arrest on herself.
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It was a long (about 50 minute) video that started prior to the traffic stop & ended well after. But there were several glitches that very strongly suggested that it had been edited. One instance was with the towtruck driver who'd come to haul away her car. The video clearly shows him get out of his car, walk past the lady's car & the cop car such that he's behind the cop car. Then a little blip, and he's back getting out of the tow truck. There were apparently several other similar oddities with vehicles going past, then a few seconds later the same vehicle going past.
While this is taking place, the cop can be heard having a radio conversation with someone (you can only hear his side of the conversation).
The point isn't whether she could have avoided being arrested. The point is that citizen's should NOT have to be put in a situation where they have to resist responding to over the line police officers.
If not for the police brotherhood covering for guys ill suited for the professions, as well their union protection, many of these guys would be fired. But, instead, let's condemn the normal citizen, not the guy with the gun, badge, and power...trip.
I know police post on these boards. Doesn't it bother you that a few bad apples give the good police, who are actually out protecting and serving, a bad name? Why aren't more police turning in the bad cops?
The police hate "Snitches get stitches" but, isn't that basically what's happening among your own?
If not for the police brotherhood covering for guys ill suited for the professions, as well their union protection, many of these guys would be fired. But, instead, let's condemn the normal citizen, not the guy with the gun, badge, and power...trip.
I know police post on these boards. Doesn't it bother you that a few bad apples give the good police, who are actually out protecting and serving, a bad name? Why aren't more police turning in the bad cops?
The police hate "Snitches get stitches" but, isn't that basically what's happening among your own?
That is kind of the point of the Bill of Rights and the penumbra of protections afforded to the citizens. If it was 1776, you'd be the guy in the back of the town hall telling Jefferson and Madison that they should just be quiet and feed the British soldiers while they are quartered at their house.
Again, there is NO onus on her to behave courteously or professionally - she must simply act within the law, which she did.
That entire onus is on the uniformed, on-duty officer.
However, he instigates a confrontation, violates her civil rights several times, and overreacts.
Had he behaved in a professional manner and followed the law himself, this thread would not exist and she would still be alive.
The argument you're making is essentially that of "hey you wouldn't have gotten shot by a thief at the xxx video store if you weren't into porn" -- yes, true, I would be alive had I not gone to purchase porn (or known that it's free everywhere online), but is my getting shot my fault or that of the idiot who decided to stick up the dirty movie shop?
When did cops all of a sudden think it was their right to make unlawful demands of Americans and treat them with such disrespect??
Cops are the ones on duty, with guns, badges, uniforms and charged with the duty of upholding the law. When they act or make unlawful demands, we are well within our rights to question them. Cops have made it such that such lawful questioning can be lethal, but that is not the fault of Americans - that is the fault of law enforcement.
I just don't see any evidence to support the DWB claims on this one. You can call it a petty reason for a stop (failure to indicate a lane change), but the video I saw started with him issuing another driver a warning (for speeding, I think) and the pulling a u-turn. When he initiates the stop of Ms. Bland he's a good distance behind her. It's not as if he was sitting on the side of the road and saw a black person drive by, got a good view of her, and said, "Oh, I got one." It's hard to gauge distances on videos but I'd say he's approximately 20-25 yards back, and her rear window is shaded and the back of her head is obscured by the driver's seat headrest.
I'm not saying the cop acted professionally as things escalated - he certainly didn't - I just don't agree with the charges of DWB I hear being thrown out there.
I'm not saying the cop acted professionally as things escalated - he certainly didn't - I just don't agree with the charges of DWB I hear being thrown out there.
When he concludes the first stop and gets back in his car is when Ms Bland pulls out from a T-intersection and drives right past him as he starts to roll forward. He then decides to U-turn and catch up to her, and pulls her over when she changes lane to get out of his way without signalling.
I feel safe in the assumption he noticed the driver and the out of state tag before decided to pull a U-turn right there and catch up to her.
I didn't notice that the first time. Now that I watch it again, I see her roll into the scene at 1:14 (on the You Tube video I watched) and fail to come anywhere close to a complete stop at the stop sign - right in front of him. Maybe that's why he took an interest in her.
Why should you have to treat someone with respect who is pulling you over for some penny ante BS in order to have the opportunity to poke his nose in your car for an unlawful search and possible acute taxation.
Just the fact that he pulled her over is BS. There is the intent of the law, and the letter of the law. The intent of a law mandating you use your turn indicator is to keep you from causing an accident by merging into an occupied lane. If you merge into an empty lane, that fact independently should absolve you from the intent of the law. No ones safety was compromised at any point.
The question that I have is did that officer exceed the posted 20mph speed limit when coming up fast on her tail? Which in and of itself caused her to initiate the illegal lane change. Basically that guy broke the law, causing her to break a law. The whole interaction was unnecessary and a violation on the part of the state.
As citizens we shouldn't have to walk on egg shells around our law enforcement officers at all times. We shouldn't have to treat them the same as a robber with a gun to our head, if that's the case it makes them no difference.
Not one cent of the money police forces bring from citations in should go to their operational budget. It should go to social programs that address the root cause of crime. That way there is no incentive for them to go out and commit road piracy other than altruistically wanting to curtail criminal activity.
(That is basically the most hippy thought I've ever had)
I'm guessing that it was being traumatized by a power hungry aggressive cop who demanded that she comply with unnecessary orders after a questionable traffic violation and then assaulted her and hauled her off to jail. She survived the first time, the second time either she was so distraught that she decided to take her own life than bow to a corrupt system that allows jackass cops to behave like that ... or maybe those in power framed her death to try to cover up her side of the story.
I hate Big Brother surveillance, but cameras recording while cops are acting is a good thing ... for both the good honest police (most of them) and for the good honest citizen who gets challenged by an overzealous cop.
I find it extremely difficult to disagree with either of these thoughts.
Totally spot on.
Let's write a constitutional amendment that requires it goes to their ex-wives instead!
The thing that gets me is we wouldn't be talking about this video if she had not committed suicide. So how many times a day does this crap happen? It is really sad.
And it's been happening for decades - no one would even consider it worthy of conversation until the video started getting thrown in their face.
Appalling how many people maybe wrongly imprisoned now b/c of shoddy or biased police work.
Always hilarious to watch "Don't tread on me" "conservatives" all of a sudden demand total compliance to the state when it's something involving non-whites.
LMAO at VirginiaNole using the "she got uppity" defense of the cops actions.
The other disturbing thing about this whole fiasco is she died in that jail cell 72 hours later. Three days in jail for that. What a joke.
The other disturbing thing about this whole fiasco is she died in that jail cell 72 hours later. Three days in jail for that. What a joke.
he asked for her to put out a cigarette, not to raise more taxes or force her to have an abortion or demand her to not own a gun.... "can you please put out your cigarette" oh boy!
im assuming he was trying to smell alcohol or weed.....
what a ridiculous statement yours was
I was teetering between that and complimenting your intelligence... but this is a board called "The Locker Room" so I went with the shot below the belt.
Still an unlawful request. She was under no obligation to put out her cigarette. I don't really care what he was trying to sniff around for, and if anything I'd be suspicious if his (hypothetical) desire to sniff around for pot/booze had any ulterior motivation.
The magnitude of his request is irrelevant. He had no right to take issue with her refusal to "comply".
I think where the cop messed up came later on, when he responded to her anger by getting angry himself. But the fast pursuit was kind of like on the highway: If a cop sees you doing 90, he might have to go faster than the limit to catch up to you. In this case the woman made 3 moving violations in less than 1 minute. As he was leaving his previous warning ticket, she blew through a stop sign right in front of him. Then she sped through a 20 mph zone (she got far down the road extremely fast, then slowed down drastically near the next intersection….when she realized the cop had turned around and come after her.) Then she did the lane change w/o a signal just as he was looking at her tag. I think the police that day had targetted this particular student-populated area to give out warnings and try to make it safer, so it was certainly a legit stop. The cigarette thing was not so much an “unlawful order” as a nonbinding request. He just asked her to “please” do it “if you don’t mind”. But the order to get out of the car was perfectly lawful, as the supreme court has ruled. He just did it out of spite. His temper got the best of him: He’d been planning to only cite her for one of her three violations, and only give a warning. He felt he was going out of his way to use his discretion and not throw the book at her, and he’d even tried to be ‘nice’ – to establish some rapport with her, at the point where he asked how long she’d been in Texas. But she was just surly or angry at every turn and he let it get to him. Another point is that the time when his demeanor had already begun to change was after he’d gone and checked her driving record and seen the 10 arrests and 5 in the past 2 years, including the DUI charge and the marijuana possession charge. He had already thought something was a little off about her attitude, but now was even more pointedly suspicious in the nature of his questioning about her mood. But he was still ready to let her get off, apparently. He just blew his top when she copped an attitude about being in her own car and going to do the hell what she wanted.
Now, if I get the chance to counsel young black people on how to act with the police (as this woman had supposedly been doing for years), I tell them to act just as polite as they should with their parents, family, teachers and church members. And if the cop is trouble, to get out of the incident as fast as possible and live to make a formal complaint about him later on. What this woman did was a bit stupid, especially for somebody getting close to having ten thousand dollars in unpaid traffic fines and penalties. But if she was suffering from depression or whatever, it’s perhaps understandable.
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There was nothing wrong with her attitude. No one likes getting a ticket. You're not required to be happy and friendly when you are receiving a ticket for something as petty as failure to signal. The guy kept trying to get a rise out of her and finally did when he asked her to get out of the car. Yes, had she played along and submitted to his bs and kissed his ass in the face of his provocation she probably would have gotten off with a warning, but that's all sorts of wrong.
I've seen numerous comments defending the cop over how he was just going to give her a warning, as he'd done with the other driver. She had no reason to suspect that; all she knew was that the guy pulled her over for a petty, BS charge. In my experience, cops don't typically pull you over intending to simply give you a written warning. You might get off with one, but it's not what ANYONE would expect if you get pulled over on BS like failure to signal a lane change.
Her attitude is most likely a big part of why she went to the morgue. An angry and depressed personality.
In a sense there's nothing "wrong" with going through life with a bad attitude. But it does have consequences. Now we can't full assess it, b/c we couldn't see her eyes, facial expression and body. And we can't hear some of the really low, quiet surly answers she seemed to give. But IMO she purposely displayed a very bad attitude.
I'll continue to counsel people to behave better than that, or at least wisely. But I know we'll always have people who respond like a Sandra Bland or a Michael Brown. I would at least try to tell them that if it's not "wrong" according to their morals, wouldn't you rather end up alive, rather than do something that you consider not wrong but you end up dead? We really aren't helping our young people by teaching them that cops are simply worthy of contempt. It's only going to get us a worse pool of cop applicants, a generally worse level of interactions and more bad incidents
Yeah, sure she was "surly" and died in jail. If only she actly more responsibly and polite like this gentleman she's be alive today. I be that's what kept him alive. His politeness.
Jump to the 1:03 mark.
Jump to the 1:03 mark.
I'm unable to see what's in your video as I haven't been able to access Utube this week. What happened?
Jackhole open carry guys with long guns on their backs start screaming at cops when they show up at the request of concerned property owners. Calling cops all sorts of names and telling them they won't talk to them until they put their guns down. Failed to comply with any order, claimed they didn't have to. They lived despite all this. In fact, got in their cars and drove away.
I guess everyone builds their own body of experience, and future expectations based on that. I’ve probably gotten 3 tickets that included fines in 35 years driving, one for a teenage accident. Unlike Rachel Dolezal, I’ve always been obviously ‘colored’. I almost invariably have gotten only a warning for minor infractions, and have as well been let off for barreling along at high speeds, and for perhaps not being entirely at .00 on the BAC. I just treat them with the same basic human respect that I do when encountering anyone doing their job. If pulled over and told it was only for a lane change, I’d fully expect a good chance at not being ticketed. Last time I got pulled for something like that it was for sneaking out a short "enter" lane on the back side of a Wal-Mart very late at night, to save time as it was a deserted street. Not going around to the actual redlight exit saved me one minute but lost me 5 dealing with the Cracker and condescending sheriff's deputy. But all he really wanted probably was to make sure I wasn't a drunk. He told me to use the correct exit from then on and that was the end of it.
What I don’t fathom is, if people believe there are bad cops out there and cops out to get you on any pretense if DWB, why would you fall for it, unless it was just somehow worth it to you to put a cop in his place? If instead you CHOOSE to act out, why be shocked at the result? Maybe even though she was some kind of self-styled anti-police activist, she was just surprisingly ignorant of the law (on cops being able to compel you to exit). I’ve been pulled by great behaving cops and I've been pulled by rednecks where part of the attitude you sense might have been racial. Why in the world would anybody play into that? Get the hell out of there and get home. I still think this woman seemed like something was a little bit off about her, and wonder if the supposedly “significant” amount of marijuana found in her system was still fresh, and affecting her judgment and temper. Both the white male officer and the black female officer (who only had his misleading version of the story to go on) seemed to suspect something and really thoroughly searched her vehicle. She certainly acted quite depressed and forlorn in jail, and cried a lot per the inmate next door.
