Time to blow up NCAA Basketball?

[Fijimn]

As I am sure everyone presumed, all schools are dirty. The blue bloods up on tobacco road are included in the latest schools of academic excellence that have players paid by street agents.. Of course Rat Face will claim ignorance. It appears Michigan St. decided to say screw it to any semblance of institutional control and let the patients run the asylum. The older I get, the more I side with getting rid of all athletic scholarships and returning college sports to amateurism. Let the major sports league pay and support a developmental league.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...n-reveals-basketball-powers-broken-ncaa-rules

 

[NDallasRuss]

Oh. I favor going the complete opposite direction and letting college players have agents, negotiate salaries, etc. The idea of major college sports as amateur is long gone, since there's so much money involved. They might as well give up the last remaining piece of the charade and start paying the athletes that actually play the sports that allow so many institutions and individuals to get rich. Give everyone involved in the process the same opportunity to make as much money as they can.

 

[SoddyNole]

Maybe they can ban enough teams from the NCAA tournament for Ham to get past the second round.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Oh. I favor going the complete opposite direction and letting college players have agents, negotiate salaries, etc. The idea of major college sports as amateur is long gone, since there's so much money involved. They might as well give up the last remaining piece of the charade and start paying the athletes that actually play the sports that allow so many institutions and individuals to get rich. Give everyone involved in the process the same opportunity to make as much money as they can.

Exactly, drop the poorly masked charade and just bring it out in the open. That also extends to football as I’m sure no adults here are duped into thinking the Clemson DLinemen that would have been first rounders returned because they love the rock and not because of some lump sum payments on par with the NFL money and that Jawja suddenly and miraculously is pulling in elite recruits under some coach that no one really knew and NOT because they are now making Bama blush from how over the top their payments have been from their dropmen.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Exactly, drop the poorly masked charade and just bring it out in the open. That also extends to football as I’m sure no adults here are duped into thinking the Clemson DLinemen that would have been first rounders returner because they love the rock and not because of some lump sum payments on par with the NFL money and that Jawja suddenly and miraculously is pulling in elite recruits under some coach that no one really knew and NOT because they are now making Bama blush from how over the top their payments have been from their dropmen.

The same way that everyone knew exactly how Ole Miss got 2 of the top 5 recruits (4 of the top 20) in 2013 despite going 13-24 over the previous three seasons.

 

[SoddyNole]

Oh. I favor going the complete opposite direction and letting college players have agents, negotiate salaries, etc. The idea of major college sports as amateur is long gone, since there's so much money involved. They might as well give up the last remaining piece of the charade and start paying the athletes that actually play the sports that allow so many institutions and individuals to get rich. Give everyone involved in the process the same opportunity to make as much money as they can.

I am not sure they are getting rich as this is allowing them to issue very large multi-million dollar bonds for eye candy facility projects while locking themselves into enormous coaching contracts which end up getting paid off before completion only to write a bigger one a few years later. Somewhere there has to be a limit to what the fan base and the sports networks can support. There is simply not an infinite amount of resources available for college football to continue on our current path not to mention adding a very large player wage base to the pile. I honestly don't see riches in the current landscape as much as a mountain of debt leading to some very trouble waters in the future.

 

[ggmike1992]

Maybe they can ban enough teams from the NCAA tournament for Ham to get past the second round.

Underrated post.

 

[noleclone2]

Underrated post.

I would counter that if FSU is by some miracle not caught up in this, he has done an even better job as our coach.

 

[ggmike1992]

I would counter that if FSU is by some miracle not caught up in this, he has done an even better job as our coach.

I saw Malik Beasley mentioned in an article.

 

[RangerNole]

I find this argument very interesting and sadly it seems to boil down to age and what a college education does for someone. So if the argument is just pay the kids and let them fend for the themselves; well get ready for a bunch of uneducated kids that spent 4 or 5 years in college and have nothing to show for it. I don't know who has posted that is paying for college but it is minimum 100k without food and living expenses. Now if you actually pick a major that adds value to not only the country but yourself then you are talking about life changing events. I really have a hard time devaluing what a education does for people and families. Let's also not forget the stats show of all the kids in college that are athletes what 1% will even sniff pro career in any sport? What happens to the other 99%? Do they just hang out in college hoping they get picked up one day and then at 35 realize they have no skill set for the real world? Instead of creating some minor league paid for by tax payers and the colleges; maybe we should remind the kids that getting an education is actually a real value since 99% of them have no chance if making it in the pros. But hey let's blow up the whole process and hope it works. Another idea is blow up the NCAA, they are an ungoverned body that sucks the money and life out of people.

 

[billanole]

I am not sure they are getting rich as this is allowing them to issue very large multi-million dollar bonds for eye candy facility projects while locking themselves into enormous coaching contracts which end up getting paid off before completion only to write a bigger one a few years later. Somewhere there has to be a limit to what the fan base and the sports networks can support. There is simply not an infinite amount of resources available for college football to continue on our current path not to mention adding a very large player wage base to the pile. I honestly don't see riches in the current landscape as much as a mountain of debt leading to some very trouble waters in the future.

Yep. House of cards will tumble one of these days... TV money is not gonna increase, coaches pay is a joke, facility upgrades are relentless, concussion issues, etc... are just some reasons that change is needed.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

There is simply not an infinite amount of resources available for college football to continue on our current path not to mention adding a very large player wage base to the pile.

It will be interesting to see what if any reaction there is when players start getting a paycheck. That money has got to come from somewhere.

 

[billanole]

Here is one perspective by Gary Parrish that I am coming around to after years of denial. It a’int my daddy’s game anymore.

Because, try to follow me here, you can't break amateurism rules if there are no amateurism rules. Which is why doing away with amateurism is the only actual fix on the table. Everything else just leads to a pointless press release. And if Mark Emmert and his committee are too foolish to realize that, any attempt they make to "clean up the sport" will fail spectacularly. Just like always.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...eres-the-only-way-the-ncaa-can-fix-the-sport/

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I saw Malik Beasley mentioned in an article.

So the headlines will probably read "Former FSU Star Among Hundreds Ensnared in Bribery Scandal"

 

[SoddyNole]

It will be interesting to see what if any reaction there is when players start getting a paycheck. That money has got to come from somewhere.

I agree. The reaction over time most likely will be the same as it is with all of us if they go down this path. They will want an ever increasing compensation package as time goes on. We will not have completely solved the issue of appeasing the players and will have added more hurdles for college sports to overcome in the future.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I was listening to Mark Schlabach being interviewed on espn radio this morning. I kept waiting for the question "How badly do you want FSU to be involved in this scandal?".

 

[NoleinATL]

College players should not be compensated , other than a monthly stipend to allow for living expenses beyond what is provided via grants, scholarships and the occasional 1000 handshake from a friendly booster.
The NBA and NFL need to have the gumption of MLB and set up their own minor league system so that every person who finds no value in college can participate in said minor league system and this discussion can cease.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

Did not Arizona long to make a decision on Miller. I am guessing this goes to court. His contract says per a CBS report he gets $10 mil if he is fired for cause but only $5 mil if fired for no reason.

 

[OrlandNole]

I was listening to Mark Schlabach being interviewed on espn radio this morning. I kept waiting for the question "How badly do you want FSU to be involved in this scandal?".

The closest FSU connection I saw is Kevin Knox (son of former FSU WR who we recruited but went to Kentucky). He was implicated in a dinner with the agent's runner, but has denied involvement and been cleared to play by UK.

 

[62Nole]

Are we finally ready to drop the "student" from student-athlete?

 

[FSUdawg]

Instead of blowing up NCAA Basketball, I think they just need to blow up the NCAA.

I am not typically one for government regulations. However, the NCAA has proven they cannot police themselves. At this point I think it is time for an independent governing organization to oversee everything related to college athletics.

Instead of dropping Student from student-athlete, I think it is time to reinforce the Student aspect.

If the NBA & NFL want a true minor league structure, let them pony up the money to create it.

 

[NoleinATL]

Are we finally ready to drop the "student" from student-athlete?

No.
In 2017 over 460k student athletes ( just DI) competed in sports, why does the decisions of a few people taint all these great kids?

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I'm in favor of a minor league for football and basketball that would attract the top HS talent.

The idea of college sports as an industry has begun to disgust me. There's no sane world in which a public university, such as ours, ought to have under it's mandate the administration of a billion dollar athletics program and facilities. The madness in overbuilding facilities and overpaying coaches has to stop.

Create some minor leagues wherein community college courses are required (and included) as part of the practice program, teaching a specialized curriculum for skills unique to these players (financial management, social media, contract law, nutrition, some physiology, marketing, etc...)

Half these guys are taking classes that aren't going to help them on or off the field, regardless of if they play NFL/NBA/MLB. Let's focus the curriculum so it's more relevant. If players want to take some serious coursework towards a real major, they'd be compensated for doing so at the closest public university.

College sports will suffer, but frankly, it deserves it.

 

[NoleinATL]

I'm in favor of a minor league for football and basketball that would attract the top HS talent.
Create some minor leagues wherein community college courses are required (and included) as part of the practice program, teaching a specialized curriculum for skills unique to these players (financial management, social media, contract law, nutrition, some physiology, marketing, etc...)

Lost me at requiring people to take classes.
Adults make decisions, they either decide to go to college or they decide to take a job. If someone does not realize the value in education, there is no reason to make education part of a minor league system.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Lost me at requiring people to take classes.
Adults make decisions, they either decide to go to college or they decide to take a job. If someone does not realize the value in education, there is no reason to make education part of a minor league system.

FYI - It's not binary - one or the other. You can do both.

Many people work full time and go to school in the evenings. Many people work because they have to, that doesn't mean they don't realize the value in education -- that's an utterly entitled opinion.

If you can give kids the best of both worlds, why wouldn't you.

 

[FayuGes]

The things with Malik Beasley came after he declared for the draft, after he had played his last game for FSU.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

Half these guys are taking classes that aren't going to help them on or off the field, regardless of if they play NFL/NBA/MLB. Let's focus the curriculum so it's more relevant. If players want to take some serious coursework towards a real major, they'd be compensated for doing so at the closest public university.

That just doesn't apply to athletes but the general student population as well.

 

[NoleinATL]

FYI - It's not binary - one or the other. You can do both.

Many people work full time and go to school in the evenings. Many people work because they have to, that doesn't mean they don't realize the value in education -- that's an utterly entitled opinion.

If you can give kids the best of both worlds, why wouldn't you.

My apologies for the harsh wording, my edit would read
"if a person chooses to to work versus go to college, that person should not be compelled to take classes at a CC level"

as to giving kids the best of both worlds , we do, every kid in this country is given the chance to have an education and play sports. This discussion is around adults who would like to play sports for money or go to college and play sports w/o compensation

 

[ReliableOstrich]

That just doesn't apply to athletes but the general student population as well.

Agree. See my comment in the greek thread about how we're sitting here arguing about greek life while the world catches up -- we should be talking about a more rigorous and realistic curriculum

 

[ReliableOstrich]

My apologies for the harsh wording, my edit would read
"if a person chooses to to work versus go to college, that person should not be compelled to take classes at a CC level"

as to giving kids the best of both worlds , we do, every kid in this country is given the chance to have an education and play sports. This discussion is around adults who would like to play sports for money or go to college and play sports w/o compensation

Yea they have a choice but just like how my company compels me to take continuing education courses, if I ran a minor league for football/baseball/basketball I'd compel the players to take relevant coursework - not just for their own benefit but also the benefit of my league, it's image, stability, etc...

As far as every kid in this country getting "the best of both worlds" my friend, you should visit some schools in the bad part of your city. The quality of education would stun you. Also, many come from situations where they don't have the combination of disposable time and money to do both. They need to pick one, or neither, in order to also earn money to keep the roof over their head.

My concept provides athletes the chance to get paid for their skills and hardwork, while also making sure that they leave with some useful skills and knowledge. I believe corporations have social responsibility.

I frankly think athletes would flock to this -- a practical curriculum and real paycheck. College curriculum and lack of fair pay is a charade that needs to end.

 

[Gonolz]

University sports programs are about to get a big dose of economic reality. The tax reform law will wipe away the 80% tax deduction that boosters get for donations linked to the right to get seats. I'm sure Universities have been exploring a work-around. I'm curious to see what that is.

Previously, the donations have been eligible for an 80% deduction.

Simplifying, for a Golden Chief who donates $10k per year, they previously got an $8k deduction. Assuming top tax bracket (~40%), that is about $3,200 off the tax bill. So, under the new tax law, it would ultimately cost $3,200 more to donate at the same level.

SeaPA, would you please check my knowledge of the law and math? My tax experience only consists of 6 weeks dressing up in a Statue of Liberty costume and dancing around to bring in tax "clients".

 

[NoleLizards]

FSU's doing our part tonight...Down by 19 at the half against NC State.

 

[Gonolz]

FSU's doing our part tonight...Down by 19 at the half against NC State.

Well, at least we aren't paying the players [enough]. The billions flow down to general school programs and athletic departments and to pay the hefty salaries of Administrators, ADs (Wilcox has to slum it on $750k per year) and coaches (Ham is middle class and only gets $2.3mil per year). Sure a college education, room and board are worth a lot, but there are a lot of people doing very well financially at least in part because those kids don't get paid.

NCSt really kicked our butts.

 

[NoleLizards]

Well, at least we aren't paying the players [enough]. The billions flow down to general school programs and athletic departments and to pay the hefty salaries of Administrators, ADs (Wilcox has to slum it on $750k per year) and coaches (Ham is middle class and only gets $2.3mil per year). Sure a college education, room and board are worth a lot, but there are a lot of people doing very well financially at least in part because those kids don't get paid.

NCSt really kicked our butts.

Very true that we're not one of the programs named. ...But neither are far more successful ones over time such as Villanova and (Ugh) the crocs.

 

[RangerNole]

First off let's remember if you pay any athlete in college you will pay every athlete on every team in every sport. So that means the Heisman QB gets the same as the 6th seed on the tennis team or pick whoever and whatever sport you want. Again why are we devaluing education; these students aren't going pro. Here is a just a couple of thoughts.

- Put into a trust a percent of jersey etc. sales that are tied to the actual sport and tied to the actual athlete for each sport. So if you are Dalvin Cook you get rewarded for being the face and star of the team. Same for a swimmer or whoever if they are the face of their team.
- I don't know what student-athletes get money wise, but I am not opposed to say $100-$150 in spending money for each athlete in every sport. I assume they get free books, tuition, room, meals etc.
- I would also have an athletes only dining hall since if you are college level athlete you likely need more food than someone who is just hanging out.
- Along with this I would have some very strict rules regarding behavior and grades. As I understand it athletes already get free tutoring. There is no reason for failing classes or just getting by.

 

[321Nole]

First off let's remember if you pay any athlete in college you will pay every athlete on every team in every sport. So that means the Heisman QB gets the same as the 6th seed on the tennis team or pick whoever and whatever sport you want.

Why not just let the market dictate it like it does for every other non-government owned adult in America?

 

[alaskanseminole]

Oh. I favor going the complete opposite direction and letting college players have agents, negotiate salaries, etc. The idea of major college sports as amateur is long gone, since there's so much money involved. They might as well give up the last remaining piece of the charade and start paying the athletes that actually play the sports that allow so many institutions and individuals to get rich. Give everyone involved in the process the same opportunity to make as much money as they can.

I've heard this discussion before...but who pays these kids? What about other sports? Do golf, track, women's tennis players get paid? It's a great idea, but darn near impossible in execution.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I've heard this discussion before...but who pays these kids? What about other sports? Do golf, track, women's tennis players get paid? It's a great idea, but darn near impossible in execution.

Any number of ways to go about this...
College football and men's basketball are each multi billion dollar industries. Funds from those can be put towards compensation of not only their own players but those of other sports.

or..

Totally split off CFB and MBB into minor league sports, separate from colleges

or..

Create a pot of money for D1, D2, and D3 based on revenues (tv, licensing, etc...) at each level and allocate it to schools, mandating that each school operate within a pre-assigned salary cap and salary minimum for its division. This keeps Alabama from paying $1.5m for the next Julio Jones and UTEP from feeling as though it doesn't have the funds to play.

Sure you'll still have schools try to cheat - but the NCAA has never and will never be able to enforce anything, the organization needs to be dismantled and replaced. You don't see NFL teams circumventing the salary cap by paying players a few extra hundred thousand or million under the table or using bagmen.

 

[NDallasRuss]

I've heard this discussion before...but who pays these kids? What about other sports? Do golf, track, women's tennis players get paid? It's a great idea, but darn near impossible in execution.

The athletes are paid from revenues from their sport at their school. If your sport at your school doesn't make money, then you don't get paid outside of whatever scholarship they want to give you. Why would all athletes i all sports have to get paid?

 

[runkpanole]

Any number of ways to go about this...
College football and men's basketball are each multi billion dollar industries. Funds from those can be put towards compensation of not only their own players but those of other sports.

or..

Totally split off CFB and MBB into minor league sports, separate from colleges

or..

Create a pot of money for D1, D2, and D3 based on revenues (tv, licensing, etc...) at each level and allocate it to schools, mandating that each school operate within a pre-assigned salary cap and salary minimum for its division. This keeps Alabama from paying $1.5m for the next Julio Jones and UTEP from feeling as though it doesn't have the funds to play.

Sure you'll still have schools try to cheat - but the NCAA has never and will never be able to enforce anything, the organization needs to be dismantled and replaced. You don't see NFL teams circumventing the salary cap by paying players a few extra hundred thousand or million under the table or using bagmen.

I don't think your second option is viable. CFB and MBB are popular b/c there is an attachment by most people to an institution. I don't see people donating tens of thousands of dollars to a minor league squad. I think your first option is the best.