Was it fixed?
- Thread starter Scalphunter
- Start date
I can tell you I have some deep connections into this whole thing and there are a number of issues that will likely never be revealed or swept under the rug. IMO based on contacts I have the "standard" for the actual course was not altered for the females; I also will trust the leadership at Ranger School that has said this, until proven otherwise. Some are very respected and decorated Soldiers from the Ranger Regiment. What is a big issue is how rules were applied, the number of attempts given and the biggest thing was being allowed to train for months and in some cases a year to prepare. The standards did change for the school in the 90s when they had a couple of deaths and the investigation showed that the lack of sleep and food was a contributor to the death; as well as many other things like the freezing weather.
- The females were recycled many many times while not unheard of it is rare, although some of the men were also given this opportunity. The most recent grad Major Jaster did the entire school 3 times. She recycled every phase at least twice. She passed 3 patrols the entire time she was in Ranger School with over 20 graded patrols given to her. The other 2 had similar records. Generally speaking you must pass a patrol in each phase and have at least a 500 record on graded patrols.
- The females were given special duty to train for Ranger school with special instructions/training etc. Sure most people go to pre-ranger of some sort but they don't spend months and months training with that training being their only job. You can ask anyone who has gone to ranger school and they will tell you they probably got a couple of days to get the packing list together and then off they went. Many Soldiers are told on a Thursday there is a slot and they need to be at Benning on Saturday.
The overall feeling of those I know is that this turned into a don't quit and you will pass type of event and while not quitting is admirable; it is not the point of the school. You go there get put under physical and emotional stress and then have to lead to a certain standard. Getting do overs after do over is not the point of the school; the purpose of the school is to test your leadership and see if you have what it takes. If after multiple attempts in the same phase you still don't get it then you should go home and come back when you are ready.
If you want google "ranger school class photos" take a look at the recent grads as compared to those in the 80's the people look different. My own family could not pick me out of my graduation photo; mainly because I looked like I was just in a POW camp. I lost over 30 pounds with most of that happening in the first 2 phases and I only weighed about 170lbs when I started. If you look at the pictures of the recent grads they don't look like they have missed to many meals.
At the end of the day nothing will happen and it is done. Keep this in mind when you read the stories. The Army searched for 2 years to find females that they thought could graduate. They found 139 females willing to try that met some basic criteria of those 139 only 19 even passed pre-ranger and of the 19 they got 3 to graduate; that is not a sound investment if you ask me. There is a congressman investigating but I doubt it will go any where. The whole we shredded the records thing sounds a little fishy; at least that quickly. I am sure they do a records dump after a while; although what is interesting is they have toured these 3 females around like they received the MOH, so logic would tell you that they might have kept their records for a few weeks. I know many of the women who are on the side of the 3 females that graduated have asked for the congressman's records from his class in Ranger School as well, but based on the message from Ranger School they should have been shredded a long time ago. What is funny is the congressman was in my class. I don't remember him; but anyone who wants to see my ranger school records can have at it. I was honor graduate of my class and finished with 1st time go's in every phase.
- The females were recycled many many times while not unheard of it is rare, although some of the men were also given this opportunity. The most recent grad Major Jaster did the entire school 3 times. She recycled every phase at least twice. She passed 3 patrols the entire time she was in Ranger School with over 20 graded patrols given to her. The other 2 had similar records. Generally speaking you must pass a patrol in each phase and have at least a 500 record on graded patrols.
- The females were given special duty to train for Ranger school with special instructions/training etc. Sure most people go to pre-ranger of some sort but they don't spend months and months training with that training being their only job. You can ask anyone who has gone to ranger school and they will tell you they probably got a couple of days to get the packing list together and then off they went. Many Soldiers are told on a Thursday there is a slot and they need to be at Benning on Saturday.
The overall feeling of those I know is that this turned into a don't quit and you will pass type of event and while not quitting is admirable; it is not the point of the school. You go there get put under physical and emotional stress and then have to lead to a certain standard. Getting do overs after do over is not the point of the school; the purpose of the school is to test your leadership and see if you have what it takes. If after multiple attempts in the same phase you still don't get it then you should go home and come back when you are ready.
If you want google "ranger school class photos" take a look at the recent grads as compared to those in the 80's the people look different. My own family could not pick me out of my graduation photo; mainly because I looked like I was just in a POW camp. I lost over 30 pounds with most of that happening in the first 2 phases and I only weighed about 170lbs when I started. If you look at the pictures of the recent grads they don't look like they have missed to many meals.
At the end of the day nothing will happen and it is done. Keep this in mind when you read the stories. The Army searched for 2 years to find females that they thought could graduate. They found 139 females willing to try that met some basic criteria of those 139 only 19 even passed pre-ranger and of the 19 they got 3 to graduate; that is not a sound investment if you ask me. There is a congressman investigating but I doubt it will go any where. The whole we shredded the records thing sounds a little fishy; at least that quickly. I am sure they do a records dump after a while; although what is interesting is they have toured these 3 females around like they received the MOH, so logic would tell you that they might have kept their records for a few weeks. I know many of the women who are on the side of the 3 females that graduated have asked for the congressman's records from his class in Ranger School as well, but based on the message from Ranger School they should have been shredded a long time ago. What is funny is the congressman was in my class. I don't remember him; but anyone who wants to see my ranger school records can have at it. I was honor graduate of my class and finished with 1st time go's in every phase.
I was hoping you'd post on this after they graduated. Not knowing much about ranger school, it's really informative.
Reminds me of when females were first admitted to Air Force pilot training. I had a few squadron mates that were their Instructor Pilots. The Air Force bent over backwards to get some of them through.
It is a little sad for me as the school was a real ball buster back in the day and I am sure that someone who went in the 70s can find things with my class in 87 that were easier; I have had numerous relatives pass the school this decade and even they said it is not the same course it used to be. At the end of the day this whole thing was about gender integration and the goal was to prove that it is a good idea. I have no issue with women serving in any position in the military as long as the standard is kept and the purpose is valuable. Getting 3 females to pass after searching for 2 years is not value. Interesting also that they decided on an April class date if you have ever been to Benning, Dalonegha and Ft. Walton from April-May it is wonderful. Come summer theses places are pure hell with heat and in the winter ice cold; cold enough that people have died in the course. Not sure how it will work out as I am still waiting to see how this finally ends but the CG of Benning said the school is the same as it always has been and challenged anyone that wanted to test the standards to come back and validate their tab. Even a person who knows nothing about the military can research and find the number of meals, amount of sleep etc. changed in the 90s after the deaths. There are several people myself included considering taking the challenge if we are given the same train up as the females, or even the same amount of time; we don't need classes just some time to get focused. At 50 I can pass the entrance requirements without much effort. If they release the facts that the females did get special training time etc. a number of us may take the Generals challenge. In an earlier article for People 1 female admitted that they received special training etc. prior to attending with a Ranger Instructor; that whole thing has been kind of glossed over.
Another interesting thing is while a small percentage of people can pass ranger school; at the end of the day it is a gut check. I could argue that serving in a light infantry unit for 4 years is much harder overall on your body. Interesting how the USMC let females Officers in their Infantry Course and not one passed; yet somehow 3 females passed ranger school. Funny because I know marines that have failed ranger school.
The USMC did a gender integration study over a couple of years and spent over 30 million on the study. They found that all female or mixed gender infantry units performed much worse than male only infantry units. they included everything from target hit times, shooting, overall mission success, injury and many other things. It was actually a really good study. The sec. of the Navy threw it out and said we will integrate; so much for not having a pre-determined plan. At the end of the day this stuff WILL cost the lives of American Soldiers; but hey at least everyone feels good and we have gender integration.
Another interesting thing is while a small percentage of people can pass ranger school; at the end of the day it is a gut check. I could argue that serving in a light infantry unit for 4 years is much harder overall on your body. Interesting how the USMC let females Officers in their Infantry Course and not one passed; yet somehow 3 females passed ranger school. Funny because I know marines that have failed ranger school.
The USMC did a gender integration study over a couple of years and spent over 30 million on the study. They found that all female or mixed gender infantry units performed much worse than male only infantry units. they included everything from target hit times, shooting, overall mission success, injury and many other things. It was actually a really good study. The sec. of the Navy threw it out and said we will integrate; so much for not having a pre-determined plan. At the end of the day this stuff WILL cost the lives of American Soldiers; but hey at least everyone feels good and we have gender integration.
