Westworld
- Thread starter CoDuke
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I'm leaning more to this theory. Just seems to make more sense to me.
The only thing that keeps me from thinking it's absolutely correct is that Logan has no issues killing and torturing the host. MiB said he never killed or tortured the guest until he gutted Maeve and daughter, and did it just to do it.
With that, William killed and maimed an entire village of host this past episode. So this wouldn't line up with MiB story either.
If that's a wash, I'm picking Logan as MiB.
Who is the 3rd man in the photo where Bernard/Arnold finally saw himself? Might his be the MiB?
the 3 men in the picture were Ford, his father and Arnold. That was all but confirmed a few episodes ago when Bernard stumbled upon Ford's cabin.
So, back to Bernard being Arnold re-animated, in some of the scenes we see Bernard speaking to Deloris. My question was that in a prior timeline where it was actually Arnold?
I am definitely going to have to watch that episode again as they kept showing Deloris in different cloths at different stages in the same place.
Also, Ford must know everything that is going on in the park, including what Maeve is up to, but Bernard was surprised by her changes. Could this be part of Ford's new narrative?
I am definitely going to have to watch that episode again as they kept showing Deloris in different cloths at different stages in the same place.
Also, Ford must know everything that is going on in the park, including what Maeve is up to, but Bernard was surprised by her changes. Could this be part of Ford's new narrative?
Wonder if Ford has MiB killed off as well since he had the final say in having him fired.
I took it as she was never actually talking to Bernarnold. It was all coding in her head that was an internal dialogue she projected as a real conversation.
Oh that is right, so the MIB is on the board, and doesn't seem to care if Ford lives or dies. The BoT chick wants Ford out, so she and the board can steal the trade secrets in the park.
the 3 men in the picture were Ford, his father and Arnold. That was all but confirmed a few episodes ago when Bernard stumbled upon Ford's cabin.
oh yeah. Damn these multiple timelines are screwing up my following.
That's not what he said, the MiB stated he let loose some darkness while at the park but killing a little girl and her mother (Maeve) was something he needed to see he could do and what he would feel. Two completely different things.
Again, not what he said, he said Dolores was "different" then the others, he noted that Maeve was alive "for a breif moment" when she attacked him (MiB). I think he realized then that what Dolores did to Logan was an act of her becoming sentient but he didn't put the two together until the Maeve incident 28 years later (if you belive William = MiB) and set him on the path of the maze.
Not sure. Without watching the earlier episodes, I think it was possibly that Arnold was talking to her. Hard to keep track really.
I can't tell wtf is going on...but I still love the show.
I think it's possibly both. The 1st time we see them talking, Arnold is legit nervous about being found out and sets Dolores on the path of the maze. She kills him but still talks to him afterward.
Is it safe to say that the cause of the Hosts, ie Maeve and Deloris getting consciousness is something severely traumatic happening in their "lives"?!
I am leaning towards this as well. And damn if so he aged poorly.
Could be. William and the MiB both comment on reading books and story telling. The MiB stated how he wasn't always like this on his first visit to the park (which could still be Logan, since he said something similar to William). I think the biggest piece of evidence that William = MiB is how emotionally withdrawn the MiB is to his wife and daughter before his wife's death. He's emotionally distant because he's still in love with Dolores and something tragic happens to her in front of him. There's also Angela, who we know for a fact William met, we don't know if Logan met her and the MiB comments on her still being around when he's with Teddy.
Part of me thinks Hector is a representation up of Logan that Ford created to mock William aka MiB. He asks Ford "have you finally made me a worthy adversary?" Meaning Ford has been creating hosts to "battle" the MiB for some time.
Man...you some great points!
The main thing that keeps me from thinking William is that he already believes they can be human like and has so much compassion for them. MiB was clear that he didn't believe they could be human like until the Maeve incident.
Not going to be surprised either way, I just hope we find out next week. Will be disappointed if we don't, or if they are all their own separate intities.
There was earlier mention about noticing how Delores wasn't always naked when she was talking to Bernard, but was naked when she talked to Ford in diagnostics.
At the time, people were asking if it were Ford having a god complex and making her be naked, but then later we notice that almost every host is naked when back during servicing.
What this leads me to believe is those times we saw Bernard/Arnold talking to Delores, she was having internal dialogue as she was still clothed.
I will have to go back and see if Delores does indeed ever have a dialogue with Bernard/Arnold naked or not, I cannot recall off the top of my head.
You're missing one point in your comment above that would further prove MiB to be William: In the last episode Logan cut open Delores's stomach to expose the machine parts under her skin. MiB could have been saying he didn't believe they were alive or could be alive because Logan had already proved it when he cut Delores open. That couples with the final scene with William having killed and dismembered the confederado army. Seems that William has been dehumanized and changed into a cold, heartless monster (or at least emotionally detached).
In the name of "research", right? haha
She's always clothed but she seems to go on a physical journey to visit one of the secret rooms, hence why she's clothed. It would be odd for her to walk to the church, go into the confessional, go down an elevator and into a room inside her mind. I think it's a combination of both. Pre Arnold death she walks to see him, post, she's communicating in her mind. She does duplicate the journey by herself in the current timeline though.
I think Dolores went on a kill spree after she finds sentience (that's why there's all those dead host in the church underground), Ford, Arnold and Dolores have some confrontation and she kills Arnold.
I think that's the point and goal that Arnold was trying to achieve. He wanted them to remember the pain of the past because that's what would help them achieve some form of consciousness. That pain is what would make them more human. I think that's what he discovered during the tests and wanted to build on it. It looks like Fords goals are to be more Godlike and just take away the pain and make them forget. So that he has control of their "emotions" and actions. Arnold started to achieve it with the people in the church and Deloros, but Ford shut it down. Still not sure if it was Arnold that had Deloros kill him or if it was Ford. But it looks like the whole point of the Maeve storyline is that she is achieving Arnolds goal and so far Ford is oblivious to it or so it seems. That may end up being his ultimate downfall.
I get what you're saying. But after William destroyed the confederatos Logan was shocked at the evil and level of malice that took place by William. And that has me stuck thinking Logan is MiB. The Maeve incident was the first time MiB just went and slaughtered a host out of complete psychoness (not a word, I know).
It's just a guess, but I think MiB/Logan had a moment after killing Maeve where he finally truly understood what William was trying to tell him all along. Again, just a guess.
And his influence on the board was confirmed for both MiB and Logan in each timeline.
Correct. We were discussing earlier in the season if the hosts were actually physically being pulled for diagnostics (particularly when Delores was talking to Bernard early in season and was clothed) or if they were just being accessed remotely. As season went on, it appeared Delores was experiencing both: Physical visits to lab (like in the maze) and then mental flashbacks or remote access (probably more likely they were mental flash-backs/memories).
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gotta love this little doozie from last episode, though. Was she just calling out for William without having seen MiB or did she recognize him?
I still don't buy Logan possibly being, in any way shape or form, the MIB. Hard to see without the rinkles on his face, but you would think MiB would have a huge scar on his face after Delores cut him.
Interesting theories here:
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-recap-season-1-episode-9-well-tempered-clavier
I don't necessarily believe all of them, but intersting for dialogue purposes none the less.
Question.
Do you think that someone like Logan happened to get married the exact same time as William? If you think Logan = MiB then here's a MiB quote to Teddy:
"Then last year, my wife took the wrong pills. Fell asleep in the bath. Tragic accident. Thirty years of marriage vanished."
From his own mouth, we know he's been married for 30 years with a kid. Does Logan strike you as the kind of billionaire playboy to get married in his mid to late 20s?
gotta love this little doozie from last episode, though. Was she just calling out for William without having seen MiB or did she recognize him?
I still don't buy Logan possibly being, in any way shape or form, the MIB. Hard to see without the rinkles on his face, but you would think MiB would have a huge scar on his face after Delores cut him.
Interesting theories here:
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-recap-season-1-episode-9-well-tempered-clavier
I don't necessarily believe all of them, but intersting for dialogue purposes none the less.
If she's saying "William" then it's a no brainer!
I find these quotes interesting:
I've been pretending my whole life. Pretending I don't mind, pretending I belong. My life's built on it. And it's a good life; it's the life I've always wanted. But then I came here, and I get a glimpse for a second of a life in which I don't have to pretend, of a life in which I can be truly alive. How can I go back to pretending when I know what this feels like? - William
William: My friend. My friend wanted to see what was at the end of all this.
Lawrence: Your friend didn't make it. And yet, here you are. Maybe you got more of an appetite for this than you think.
I used to think this place was all about pandering to your baser instincts. Now I understand It doesn't cater to your lower self, it reveals your deepest self; it shows you who you really are. - William
Logan: I know that you think you have a handle on what this is gonna be, guns and "boobs" and all that mindless shit that I usually enjoy. You have no idea. This place seduces everybody, eventually. But by the end you're going to be begging me to stay because this place is the answer to that question you've been asking yourself.
William: What question?
Logan: Who you really are. And I can't fn' wait to meet that guy.
I've been pretending my whole life. Pretending I don't mind, pretending I belong. My life's built on it. And it's a good life; it's the life I've always wanted. But then I came here, and I get a glimpse for a second of a life in which I don't have to pretend, of a life in which I can be truly alive. How can I go back to pretending when I know what this feels like? - William
William: My friend. My friend wanted to see what was at the end of all this.
Lawrence: Your friend didn't make it. And yet, here you are. Maybe you got more of an appetite for this than you think.
I used to think this place was all about pandering to your baser instincts. Now I understand It doesn't cater to your lower self, it reveals your deepest self; it shows you who you really are. - William
Logan: I know that you think you have a handle on what this is gonna be, guns and "boobs" and all that mindless shit that I usually enjoy. You have no idea. This place seduces everybody, eventually. But by the end you're going to be begging me to stay because this place is the answer to that question you've been asking yourself.
William: What question?
Logan: Who you really are. And I can't fn' wait to meet that guy.
Yeah, that's legit.
You're doing way more homework on this than I. He prolly definetly is MiB.
Spot on with all the above @Rhino_nole , feels pretty obvious (maybe too much so?) that William has been building up to his true self.
In a lot of ways, kinda reminds me of the Christmas episode of Black Mirror, in a way. We don't see it until near the end.
Agree, unless MiB has the mole on his face removed for some reason in the last 30 years.
I certainly think he could have died. The whole place is going off script at this point.
I think Angela figured out how to hack the code because she's one of the original host. She had the horse blindfolded so it wouldn't be aware if it was harming a guest.
