What is the REAL divorce and infedelity rate in the United States today?

[BrianNole09]

This is a very difficult question to answer. I've read sociologists say that it's impossible to prove divorce rates because it's a prediction. The often quoted "50% of marriages end in divorce" may or may not be true.

Here's why it's difficult to know for sure:

-There are less people married in America than ever before. This means the divorce rate is down but the marriage rate is down as well.

-Repeat marriages add to the divorce rate but those are still marriages. Should they not count?

-People that get married at 18 have a higher divorce rate than people that get married at 30.

The infidelity rate is also interesting and also complex because it's not legal record, like divorces are. Studies have shown that 70% of marriages have infidelity by either the husband or wife. This seems high to me.

My estimate is that 75% of marriages will either have infidelity or end in divorce.

Is this too high? Too low?

I will leave it to you, the good people of the LR, to discuss and analyze.

 

[coloradonoles]

1 for 1 here

 

[Ward17]

0/0 here

The infidelity is a big reason why I don't want to marry. For me, it's a deal breaker.

While I don't know the national statistics, the divorce rate among my friends and acquaintances is about 30%. Infidelity rate is much higher.

But then again I live in Los Angeles, I can't imagine a filthier city anywhere.

 

[BrianNole09]

0/0 here

The infidelity is a big reason why I don't want to marry. For me, it's a deal breaker.

While I don't know the national statistics, the divorce rate among my friends and acquaintances is about 30%. Infidelity rate is much higher.

But then again I live in Los Angeles, I can't imagine a filthier city anywhere.

How old are you and your friends?

 

[Semiologist]

Depending on where you look, 65% to 80% of divorces are now initiated by women. Culture has changed. Women have reached a point where emotional needs (real or perceived) outweigh the need to stay married, as the most common cause of divorce.
As far as cheating, only 17% of marriages end because of an affair alone. Women cheat at the same rate as men, but once again, it's for emotional needs. Men cheat, mostly, for sexual excitement.

 

[Ward17]

How old are you and your friends?

Late 20s, early 30s

 

[amicusnole]

Culture has changed. Women have reached a point where emotional needs (real or perceived) outweigh the need to stay married, as the most common cause of divorce.

This. A wife can have a husband who is faithful, kind, generous, non-abusive, a great father, a hard worker and strong provider, and still decide that she needs to move on to find a better fulfiller of her "emotional needs"--even if the new prince fails at half of those other things. There was a time when divorce premised on such flimsy grounds would be almost unheard of. Today, culture encourages it. "You deserve so much better, girlfriend, just like Mindy on The Bachelor!"

 

[QuaZ2002]

This. A wife can have a husband who is faithful, kind, generous, non-abusive, a great father, a hard worker and strong provider, and still decide that she needs to move on to find a better fulfiller of her "emotional needs"--even if the new prince fails at half of those other things. There was a time when divorce premised on such flimsy grounds would be almost unheard of. Today, culture encourages it. "You deserve so much better, girlfriend, just like Mindy on The Bachelor!"

Sounds like you speak from experience.

 

[RTM58]

As far as cheating, only 17% of marriages end because of an affair alone. Women cheat at the same rate as men, but once again, it's for emotional needs. Men cheat, mostly, for sexual excitement.

Women cheat at a much higher rate. One's propensity to cheat correlates highly with ones ability to cheat. Women have loads more ability.

 

[surfnole]

This. A wife can have a husband who is faithful, kind, generous, non-abusive, a great father, a hard worker and strong provider, and still decide that she needs to move on to find a better fulfiller of her "emotional needs"--even if the new prince fails at half of those other things. There was a time when divorce premised on such flimsy grounds would be almost unheard of. Today, culture encourages it. "You deserve so much better, girlfriend, just like Mindy on The Bachelor!"

Agreed. Via no fault divorce, they file against men and win cash and prizes and possibly lifetime alimony for their betrayal. I wonder what the divorce filing rate for women would be if they didn't win cash and prizes.

 

[Semiologist]

Women cheat at a much higher rate. One's propensity to cheat correlates highly with ones ability to cheat. Women have loads more ability.

This statement statement reminds me of the old quote, "Men go out to bars hoping they will get lucky......women go out to bars knowing whether they will get lucky."

 

[jamnolfin]

I think what age you get married at makes a huge difference. In your 30s has a lot better odds than your 20s. 1st marriage compared to 2nd

 

[ncnole1975]

This statement statement reminds me of the old quote, "Men go out to bars hoping they will get lucky......women go out to bars knowing whether they will get lucky."

Women are also much better at keeping their mouths shut. Guys always have to tell someone. Then that someone gets drunk and tells someone else and so on. Eventually they get busted.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Women cheat at a much higher rate. One's propensity to cheat correlates highly with ones ability to cheat. Women have loads more ability.

The most reliable statistic I saw said men had cheated 17% while married and women at 14%. The much higher statistics come from BS like Ashley Madison pushing their own agenda.

Now if you're counting ordinary relationships then it's 59% of men who are cheaters and 54% of women. Which on the one hand I subjectively say is high but then I remember the circle I run in is highly educated as all of my colleagues are doctors (whether MDs, DOs, PsyDs or PhDs) and lawyers and all of my friends and even acquaintances at least have a bachelors if not higher. And I believe not only would they be less inclined to grab an STD but would have less free time. All I can say is that I've never cheated in a relationship and to my knowledge have never been cheated on.

 

[Banditking]

Women cheat at a much higher rate. One's propensity to cheat correlates highly with ones ability to cheat. Women have loads more ability.

I would never cheat but I don't get the argument that women have more ability. This totally depends on status/circumstances. Women are easy, especially the pretty ones. My ex wife cheated at the end. As soon as we separated and I made it clear I was game, women were practically throwing themselves at me. Caveat: my peer group is PhDs/mds in an academic environment.

 

[RTM58]

The most reliable statistic I saw said men had cheated 17% while married and women at 14%. The much higher statistics come from BS like Ashley Madison pushing their own agenda.

Now if you're counting ordinary relationships then it's 59% of men who are cheaters and 54% of women. Which on the one hand I subjectively say is high but then I remember the circle I run in is highly educated as all of my colleagues are doctors (whether MDs, DOs, PsyDs or PhDs) and lawyers and all of my friends and even acquaintances at least have a bachelors if not higher. And I believe not only would they be less inclined to grab an STD but would have less free time. All I can say is that I've never cheated in a relationship and to my knowledge have never been cheated on.

Women lie on surveys. Women cheat a lot.

 

[RTM58]

I would never cheat but I don't get the argument that women have more ability. This totally depends on status/circumstances. Women are easy, especially the pretty ones. My ex wife cheated at the end. As soon as we separated and I made it clear I was game, women were practically throwing themselves at me. Caveat: my peer group is PhDs/mds in an academic environment.

Most any woman you know can walk into a bar tonight and get laid. I would argue most men can't. It's not deep argument.

[sarcasm font]Women chasing PhDs/MDs is soooo inconsistent with my experience with women over the last 20 years [/sarcasm font]

 

[alaskanseminole]

Got married at 24. Last for 8 years (2 kids). Infidelity on her part.

On 2nd Marriage started at 34 (1 kid). We hit 8 years in June.

I agree getting married later in life is better. I'm a much better husband/father with some age. Ex-father-in-law often called me Peter Pan.

 

[Phinhead]

0/1 here, and done. The only reason that I have not executed entire families is that I want to enjoy my next 20 decent years.

The threat of jail works.

 

[vevois23]

I think if you break it out between first marriages, second marriages and third or more the rates increase with each subsequent iteration. The old saying of there are lies, damn lies, and statistics applies here.

 

[amicusnole]

Too many people get married based on feelings and emotion. "I feel like I'm in love, so I'm going to marry him/her." Feelings and emotions are fickle things. Unless your marital commitment to your spouse stems from a deep-seeded character for devotion and commitment through thick and thin, independent of the emotion of the day, then you simply should not get married. It doesn't make you a bad person. Marriage just simply isn't for everyone.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Too many people get married based on feelings and emotion. "I feel like I'm in love, so I'm going to marry him/her." Feelings and emotions are fickle things. Unless your marital commitment to your spouse stems from a deep-seeded character for devotion and commitment through thick and thin, independent of the emotion of the day, then you simply should not get married. It doesn't make you a bad person. Marriage just simply isn't for everyone.

Nicholas Sparks should be shot.

 

[nole71911]

Women cheat at a much higher rate. One's propensity to cheat correlates highly with ones ability to cheat. Women have loads more ability.

I would say yes overall if a woman wants to get laid tonight she can walk into a bar and accomplish this probably 85% of the time if she is a 6 or better. On the flipside I would say a remotely successful/decent looking dude probably has 50% odds of accomplishing the same thing. The difference is the woman doesnt really want to go to a random bar to get laid, a dude on the other hand would do that multiple times a week if he could.

As I have said on here before anyone getting married without a prenup in 2016 is insane. If you buy car insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance............you should buy marriage insurance i.e. a prenup!

 

[alaskanseminole]

As I have said on here before anyone getting married without a prenup in 2016 is insane. If you buy car insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance............you should buy marriage insurance i.e. a prenup!

I get what you're saying, it's just a hard sell to say, "'Til DEATH do us part...sickness and in health...oh, and sign here just in case."

 

[nole71911]

I get what you're saying, it's just a hard sell to say, "'Til DEATH do us part...sickness and in health...oh, and sign here just in case."

It wasnt that hard, its something I brought up after dating for about 3 months. She thought about it and she realized it protected her too. Then she was game for it and we never had another discussion about it. Then when I got it drafted, she took it to an attorney of her own, we signed. The End

To death do you part means what? Vows yada yada in front of a god you have never seen or met before? End of the day we all know a lot of marriages end so why not protect yourself. Just b/c you get a prenup doesnt mean you plan to get divorced. It just articulates what will happen IF you get divorced. Instead of a bittter spouse and a judge you never met dictating what should happend with you hard earned money and assets. To me it is just prudent decision making.

 

[alaskanseminole]

It wasnt that hard, its something I brought up after dating for about 3 months. She thought about it and she realized it protected her too. Then she was game for it and we never had another discussion about it. Then when I got it drafted, she took it to an attorney of her own, we signed. The End

To death do you part means what? Vows yada yada in front of a god you have never seen or met before? End of the day we all know a lot of marriages end so why not protect yourself. Just b/c you get a prenup doesnt mean you plan to get divorced. It just articulates what will happen IF you get divorced. Instead of a bittter spouse and a judge you never met dictating what should happend with you hard earned money and assets. To me it is just prudent decision making.

Looks like two people need to agree on what marriage means to them in order for the prenup discussion to even occur.

 

[Banditking]

It wasnt that hard, its something I brought up after dating for about 3 months. She thought about it and she realized it protected her too. Then she was game for it and we never had another discussion about it. Then when I got it drafted, she took it to an attorney of her own, we signed. The End

To death do you part means what? Vows yada yada in front of a god you have never seen or met before? End of the day we all know a lot of marriages end so why not protect yourself. Just b/c you get a prenup doesnt mean you plan to get divorced. It just articulates what will happen IF you get divorced. Instead of a bittter spouse and a judge you never met dictating what should happend with you hard earned money and assets. To me it is just prudent decision making.

Agree. It's a business contract. Though, I do not have a prenup (I did get married and remain married to wife number 2) and I think, for most people, it is unnecessary as much of things that you'd want as a young person protected are unenforceable and other things are untouchable. E.g., If you inherit something, it's generally not marital property unless you co-mingle it. I think, amongst the biggest mistakes that a person can make is having a stay out home spouse. That will screw you in a divorce worse than pretty much anything else.

 

[Banditking]

Most any woman you know can walk into a bar tonight and get laid. I would argue most men can't. It's not deep argument.

[sarcasm font]Women chasing PhDs/MDs is soooo inconsistent with my experience with women over the last 20 years [/sarcasm font]

Heh. This is just an issue of how women deal with attractiveness versus men.

Men see a hot girl and will sleep with them, often, regardless of occupational considerations. Women generally don't do that as readily.

I think cheating is easy for everyone if you have low enough standards.

 

[nole71911]

To avoid giving up all of your sh!t "if" you get divorced.
1. Get a prenup, which should take alimony off the table and should articulate how you will divide assets/liabilities
2. Do not let her quit working [only reason is due to some EXTREME issue with the kid(s)]
3. Do not marry someone that makes way less than you, helps prevent alimony. (If you do make sure you DEFINITELY do #1).
4. Make sure she is sane/practical/pragmatic
5. Hope for the best...........but if you do#1 correctly even if the worst happens you will be protected.

Love and attraction is a fickle thing sometimes, better to be protected! I have seen enough older male co-workers of all races/money/status get screwed............I just rather not be one of them. Nor do I want any man/woman to be one. Marriage shouldnt be the worst financial decision of your life, and for a lot of men it ends up being that.

 

[GoNolesTX]

To avoid giving up all of your sh!t "if" you get divorced.
1. Get a prenup, which should take alimony off the table and should articulate how you will divide assets/liabilities
2. Do not let her quit working [only reason is due to some EXTREME issue with the kid(s)]
3. Do not marry someone that makes way less than you, helps prevent alimony. (If you do make sure you DEFINITELY do #1).
4. Make sure she is sane/practical/pragmatic
5. Hope for the best...........but if you do#1 correctly even if the worst happens you will be protected.

Love and attraction is a fickle thing sometimes, better to be protected! I have seen enough older male co-workers of all races/money/status get screwed............I just rather not be one of them. Nor do I want any man/woman to be one. Marriage shouldnt be the worst financial decision of your life, and for a lot of men it ends up being that.

#4 is a very tough thing to find.

0/2 and really have no intention of a third attempt. #1 was married too young, #2 was a psycho that (truly) has a couple different personalities going on.

I think the fact that more folks are fine with "We don't need to be married to be together forever" means lowering divorce numbers. Infidelity rates will never be 100% accurate because people, inherently, are shady.

 

[Banditking]

To avoid giving up all of your sh!t "if" you get divorced.
1. Get a prenup, which should take alimony off the table and should articulate how you will divide assets/liabilities
2. Do not let her quit working [only reason is due to some EXTREME issue with the kid(s)]
3. Do not marry someone that makes way less than you, helps prevent alimony. (If you do make sure you DEFINITELY do #1).
4. Make sure she is sane/practical/pragmatic
5. Hope for the best...........but if you do#1 correctly even if the worst happens you will be protected.

Love and attraction is a fickle thing sometimes, better to be protected! I have seen enough older male co-workers of all races/money/status get screwed............I just rather not be one of them. Nor do I want any man/woman to be one. Marriage shouldnt be the worst financial decision of your life, and for a lot of men it ends up being that.

3 is also difficult to predict

I've got 2 and 4. Wife makes a nice income compared to the average soul, but. . .

 

[Semiologist]

1/3, although I didn't actually marry one, just cohabited for a while. Been married for 23 years now.
If I was setting standards for myself (if I ever find myself in the game again) it would be:
1) Don't have sex right away. This leaves you open to confuse lust and sexual enjoyment with like and love. Get to know the potential mate first.
2) Do eventually have sex before marriage. Don't want to find out that stuff doesn't work together too late.
3) Do live together first. It's real hard to keep up lies and deception while being around each other constantly. And crazy is hard to hide for long periods of time.

 

[nole71911]

3 is also difficult to predict

I've got 2 and 4. Wife makes a nice income compared to the average soul, but. . .

If she is a teacher and you are investment banker well she aint going to make equitable money to you. So if you are an investment banker marry a pharmacist........somewhat equitable pay. Now if you decide to marry the teacher cool, just get a prenup. If you dont you are going to be paying out the azz in alimony. I am no advocating male golddigging just be "equitable". I make $150 and you make $100 that is equitable. I make $150 and you make $45 that is not equitable. So I figure just be prepared young men out there wherever you are..........just be prepared.

 

[Banditking]

If she is a teacher and you are investment banker well she aint going to make equitable money to you. So if you are an investment banker marry a pharmacist........somewhat equitable pay. Now if you decide to marry the teacher cool, just get a prenup. If you dont you are going to be paying out the azz in alimony. I am no advocating male golddigging just be "equitable". I make $150 and you make $100 that is equitable. I make $150 and you make $45 that is not equitable. So I figure just be prepared young men out there wherever you are..........just be prepared.

That works to an extent. What if you become wildly successful. I.e. I make 300 you make 80. Or I make millions you make 300. Or whatever.

 

[RTM58]

Heh. This is just an issue of how women deal with attractiveness versus men.

Men see a hot girl and will sleep with them, often, regardless of occupational considerations. Women generally don't do that as readily.

In my experience in my early 30s (divorced at 31) and on, even outside of the context of knowing what I do, women were fairly solicitous (granted more so knowing degree, employment, etc. . ., though perhaps graduate students, medical students, nurses, and physicians are just more slutty. . . I dunno. . .also wasn't uncommon to have old ladies approach me at conferences telling me about their daughter or granddaughter).

I think cheating is easy for everyone if you have low enough standards.

#humblebrag

 

[Fijimn]

Y'all may consider just moving to a state without alimony--at least when you are nearing pulling the trigger on divorce.

 

[Banditking]

#humblebrag

fair so edited it. But, my primary point, is that cheating is simply a matter of standards.

 

[nole71911]

That works to an extent. What if you become wildly successful. I.e. I make 300 you make 80. Or I make millions you make 300. Or whatever.

If she makes millions she couldnt get rid of me if she tried! I would be the pefect husband 24/7/365 hehehehehe!

 

[RTM58]

fair so edited it. But, my primary point, is that cheating is simply a matter of standards.

With women, it's a matter of emotion....and over a twenty year window emotions will tend to get the best of them at some point.

 

[RTM58]

Y'all may consider just moving to a state without alimony--at least when you are nearing pulling the trigger on divorce.