Who joins the military?

[GwinnettNole]

I don't come from a military family so I wasn't raised for the mindset of serving as a legitimate option. My dad was (retired) an academic who stressed college and studying. He never joined the military but his father and my mom's father was drafted for WWII. Note they were drafted.

I've noticed this mindset in the south more than my northern relatives and friends that some look at joining the military as something their kids should do. ( there are a lot of academics in the northern relatives so this plays a part in it I'm sure) The friends that live in the south feel their kids (boys especially) would get a lot of benefit from joining the military but also they should serve, its something they should do as an American. I'm not saying this is a northern/ southern thing but more so just from the people I know in each part of the country.

I have the utmost respect for people that are in the military but one thing that seems to allude me is my friends do not seem to think about or even mention that their kids, if they enlist, could pay the ultimate price. Is that something you could or would be good with if your kids choose to enlist. Do you intend to influence your kid either way? Better question, to start, did you enlist? Why or why not? Was it a serious consideration for you? From what I've read there are much greater odds of being in combat/ infantry based on what you score on the ASVAB entrance test. Regardless, any person that joins could see time on the front lines. But odds are less if you join the Navy, for example, and score well on the test.

I will say there is a good number of skills that are taught in the military that kids can use for years to come. The fact that college can be or will be paid for by the military (if they meet the criteria) is also a true benefit. But again, does it come down to an ultimate price decision?

Hopefully this doesn't turn political...

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I’ve read the military is having trouble filllng its ranks these days because of fitness deficiencies, criminal records and drug use.

 

[SoddyNole]

I always though Med school in the military would be a great idea to keep from pilling up excessive loans. But no interest in researching to see if it works out well for those who go this route.

 

[DFSNOLE]

The western panhandle has a very strong military presence. That influence is a big draw for the young people around here. They use it to accomplish career and educational goals.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I always though Med school in the military would be a great idea to keep from pilling up excessive loans. But no interest in researching to see if it works out well for those who go this route.

We have a young man in our church who is in dental school through the military. He has a five year commitment after he graduates.

 

[Nolomite]

I had no interest in joining the military, but I did have a few HS friends that did join at age 18. Generalizing, they were kids of limited means and academic focus but were ambitious and had been planning this since they were 15 or 16...so, not kids looking at some "last option". Small wealthy town where most kids go to college, even the crappy students, so the military option was basically financially driven for a small minority (my graduating class had about 230 people, 6 went into the military right out of school, and 2-3 others did enter in "last resort" fashion a year or 2 later).

At FSU I knew a couple guys that did their 4-year hitch and then went to college - and invariably they were significantly calmer and more mature than those of us who started college right after high school. I was impressed.

 

[billyfsu76]

I always though Med school in the military would be a great idea to keep from pilling up excessive loans. But no interest in researching to see if it works out well for those who go this route.

I work for someone who did just that and let me tell you it has worked extremely well for him. Of course, during the military years, he made some sacrifices in terms of lifestyle / moving / pay etc. but it seems to be well worth it. Primarily, as you said, he came out in his early 30s with no loans as a specialist due to the training he got which allowed him to finance his own practice and building once he got out. A lot of his colleagues can’t afford to do the same as they’re saddled with tremendous debt already before they start working from school loans.

 

[NDallasRuss]

I always though Med school in the military would be a great idea to keep from pilling up excessive loans. But no interest in researching to see if it works out well for those who go this route.

In high school, someone I was friends with's dad went to medical school though the military. He seemed very proud of the choice and happy with how it turned out. I've mentioned it as an option to my daughter who's expressed an interest in going into medicine.

As for me personally, my biggest innate trait is to question every single thing: Good for what I do, but from what I was advised, asking "why?" and expecting detailed explanations is incompatible with the military.

 

[FreeFlyNole]

Mostly guys who want to marry a fat stripper and buy a 6 cylinder mustang at 24% interest rate with no money down.

 

[FreeFlyNole]

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/2938158/youth-fail-to-qualify-military-service

 

[nynole1]

Not in the military even though my father, uncle and both grandparents (one American, one german fought in WWII).
Two of my very good friends signed up, one a marine, one a ranger. I'm sure this isn't true for everyone who signs up, but these two were born warriors. I think that's why a lot of people can't explain their decision.

 

[RTM58]

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/p...duty-employee-workforce-numbers-by-state.html

The states with the most total active duty and reserve members of the military, as of September 2017, were:

California: 184,540
Texas: 164,234
Virginia: 115,280
North Carolina: 112,951
Florida: 92,249
Georgia: 88,089
Washington: 64,066
South Carolina: 55,369
New York: 48,974
Colorado: 47,636 (The Academy?)

 

[straightarrow]

Got an ROTC commission upon graduating from FSU in 1966. My branch was Artillery but I spent some time with the Infantry as an FO (Forward Observer). Being in the Infantry would never be my first branch choice and I wouldn't want to do the Vietnam gig again but it had its value. I matured a lot in the two years I spent in the military. I still maintain contact with many of the people under my command. They are lifelong friends that we meet with each other every year, either at First Cavalry Division reunions or the Artillery Regimental Association. I bought my first house under the GI bill and used it for graduate school. The health assistance from the VA during my retirement period is also beneficial. I get all my meds free as well as other medical care even though I maintain personal health insurance from CHP.

 

[BelemNole]

You know, I never asked my dad why he joined. Seems odd now to think about it a poor kid from Brooklyn paying his way thru college joining rotc and going in. Maybe just a way to get out.
Everyone else I knew who joined was because it was a family thing - growing up on base.

 

[billanole]

My old man and two brothers joined the navy in WW2. That’s just what you did then. Another Uncle was in Korea.
By my time, the draft was over (following Nam) and the military was not offering great incentives. It was a mostly peacetime military back then, far different than the last 27 (?) years.
One brother joined army during the Iranian hostage crisis and later went on to the coasties.
Three of my cousins have served in and retired from various branches.
The tech aspect is played up a lot in today’s recruiting pitches and I believe they are moving to a system of at least a small pension (?) per year of service for those who don’t do at least 20 years. That woulda been good for my brother.

 

[FSUdawg]

As a point of reference, I grew up in NJ. The only people in my family I know of that were in the military were drafted in. It was always taboo and I was told I was not allowed to join even if I wanted to. Looking back on it, I wish I had joined the Navy as I was not an academic by any means back in my HS/College years.

As for my daughter, she can choose her own path. I will do what I can to make sure she understands the consequences of her decisions, but I am not going to force her to take any path in life. I wouldn't want her to join the military, but if for some reason she decides it is something she wants to do, I will stand behind her decision as long as she fully understands what she might be getting into.

Regarding the medical school path, I had a friend in HS (back in the late 80's, early 90's) who decided on the Army for medical school. It has worked out extremely well for him.

 

[seminole97]

But again, does it come down to an ultimate price?

It’d be more worrisome on that score if your kid wanted to be a lumberjack or fisherman.

 

[ATLNole1]

I was never in the military but my father joined because he was drafted in. It worked out fairly well because it paid for his college education.

I have 2 younger family members who are in now but it was more because it was their last option and they did not have any other alternatives, they were not cut out for college. Most of the ones they serve with are either there to get specific training or as a way to pay for their education.

 

[Dr. Nole]

I always though Med school in the military would be a great idea to keep from pilling up excessive loans. But no interest in researching to see if it works out well for those who go this route.

My daughter is exploring this route for Medical school.

 

[Random_John]

I've never known anyone to go in as an officer. I've only known grunts. However, my in-laws have all been officers in the Navy, Marines, and Army. I can honestly say there is a massive difference between the caliber of person between the grunts and the officers.

 

[NYCNole]

My father joined Air Force in 1966 after graduating college b/c didn't want to be on ground in Vietnam. Made captain, awarded purple heart and courage medal for protecting airstrips during Tet Offensive at the age of 23. Never talked about Vietnam and died 9 yrs ago from Agent Orange exposure.

Yet kids today complain about slow wi-fi, video games and # complaints. So disheartening.

My 12 yr old son watched Vietnam footage on History Channel and was in awe that his Grandpa was right in the middle of it.

 

[kc78]

If you grow up in a military area (Like Pensacola) then it's in the water here that people should join. With that said, it's primarily going to be middle class and lower income people who do so as it's often shown as a way to get a degree, build a career, etc....

So from my perspective the military gets people from three areas.

1. Those with family ties or who grew up in areas that really honor the military.
2. Those who see it as their only way to a future career/college education.
3. Conservatives who want to be politicians, although I do think that's falling away. For a long time, you had to have armed forces background to be a credible Republican politician. I know a lot of people who have become officers because they want a future in politics. With that said, I think we're quickly seeing politics move away from those old tried and true requirements.

 

[Gonolz]

As for me personally, my biggest innate trait is to question every single thing: Good for what I do, but from what I was advised, asking "why?" and expecting detailed explanations is incompatible with the military.

My Dad was Army and wanted me to go to West Point. He would get upset when I would question him and disagree. The military is largely based on do what you are told, no questions asked. That is not my style. We agreed that I would try one year of ROTC in college. It was fun, but didn't work out.

My Dad joined through ROTC. He was from a small town in the South and thought instead of getting drafted to go to Vietnam, he would go in as an officer. He joined as we were starting to pull out, so he didn't end up going, but did stay in the Army for 27 years.

 

[FSUATT]

I’ve read the military is having trouble filllng its ranks these days because of fitness deficiencies, criminal records and drug use.

Unfortunately, it is not just the military that is having problems. Professions such as teachers and nurses are experiencing shortages and it is getting worse.

 

[Finance85]

My biological father was in the Marine Corps, retiring as a major after 20 years. He did 3 tours of duty in Vietnam. He divorced my mom when I was 9, leaving my family with virtually nothing.

I saw the military life, and the pros and cons. I decided fairly early the military wasn't for me. There's a lot of value to being in the military, and a lot of people benefit personally and professionally. Some need job skills. Others need life skills and discipline.

 

[docb76]

I would be all for my kids joining. I think there is a lot of misnomers and misinformation out there and there are a ton of benefits and a lot of Soldiers benefit greatly from the influence they get in the military. Obviously not everybody but a lot of people get a leg up in life and are a lot more mature.

For example, one of my former Soldiers, was a poor guy from Aiken, SC, just called me the other day from Kuwait as a DoD civilian pulling down $180K a year running satellite terminals while he works on his degree. The same thing for a lot of other guys in commo, they come from nothing, get a skill, and then expand on it, mature a lot, then have a free ride to college or vocational training. I think its great. He came in an immature kid spending all of his money on shoes and has matured into a good husband and father. I have a lot of people that I've met. He did two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan before leaving.

My background I joined the Florida Guard while at FSU and then commissioned as a Signal Officer once I graduated.

I was stationed in Germany and did two tours in Iraq.

If there are any questions I'm all ears.

 

[Nole Lou]

I would support the military for my kids if they had academic or discipline/focus issues. I think there are a lot of benefits to serving, as there should be.

I would be extremely hard pressed to be ok with them joining however, as they are not. I think if they had a very specific, committed career path for which serving was the best rational play, say being a pilot, or maybe the aforementioned medical school approach, I would be open to it. I wouldn't love it, but I would be on board.

I would be proud if my child was in the military, for sure, and would respect them. But I don't feel it's "owed" in any way. I feel like it's a transactional thing...someone who serves is making a big sacrifice, and should get significant returns. Those returns can certainly be financial and educational, but the biggest returns are the personal returns for people who are not academically inclined or and/are coming from poor situations that can be difficult to rise above. Coming out of the military with disicpline, job training, communication skills, a network, etc is a massive return for a lot of folks.

For my kids though, I'm not sure there's enough return in that area, that their life prospects would be significantly improved enough by military service, that I would really want them to do it. Because of that ultimate price thing.

 

[West Duval Nole]

My father chose to go into the Navy as did 3 of his brothers and another brother joined the Air Force. Their reason was so they could come to the U.S. and become citizens as they were pretty poor in the Philippines. My dad retired and went to school and became a RN and then retired from that also. His perception was he thought it provided tremendous benefit had I joined in pay, travel and benefits. However, he didn't force me to it just shared his experience and opinions on it. I didn't join. However, 2 of my brothers did as did my son. All 3 chose the Marines. None were Infantry. Why did they choose? Pretty much all 3 of them hadn't decided what they really wanted to do for a career and didn't particularly care for college right out of high school although all 3 did at least 1 semester to give it a try. My 2 brothers have since gotten out and 1 graduated from college and didn't have to pay for it and the other was going to college to get his degree but had a Marine buddy that got him a job with SpaceX and he loves working there. My son is still in and I think if he decides to get out rather than stay in 20 years that he will have a better idea of what he wants to do and be much more disciplined and goal oriented than he was prior to going in.

 

[funksouljon]

I enlisted. I would not do it again as I did. I wasn't ready for college and decided the NAVY for the following reasons. 1) see the world (thats WAY overstated). 2) Get GI Bill to help with college 3) Wanted a program that would be a intellectual challenge. 4) I wanted to get away, didn't have best HS years and wanted to be out on my own.

My folks didn't want me to, almost forbid it, but I needed to get away. And away I went for 5 years straight. Military likely wasn't best option as apparently I "have issues with authority" and considered a "non-conformist" and "you ask too many questions, just do as you are told".

It opened my eyes to many people from different social economic geographical background that I certainly had no exposure to growing up in N FL.

 

[Urban Cryer]

It’s unfortunate, but public service is on a sharp decline, especially in big cities which are growing. The military is a great place for young people to serve and find out what they want to do in life. I joined because I never saw myself doing anything else, my family has served since the revolution, I love it and I hope my kids join as well.

 

[funksouljon]

..........

I have the utmost respect for people that are in the military but one thing that seems to allude me is my friends do not seem to think about or even mention that their kids, if they enlist, could pay the ultimate price. Is that something you could or would be good with if your kids choose to enlist. Do you intend to influence your kid either way? Better question, to start, did you enlist? Why or why not? Was it a serious consideration for you? From what I've read there are much greater odds of being in combat/ infantry based on what you score on the ASVAB entrance test. Regardless, any person that joins could see time on the front lines. But odds are less if you join the Navy, for example, and score well on the test.
........

Unless my girls had a very specific plan on how to use the military to get what they want later in life, I would not encourage them to go it. It certainly isn't for everyone but for some it is a great option or last chance. We started boot camp and after week 2, I was given a job as EPO. Education Petty Officer. My job in boot camp was to learn what they were teaching us, and then spend extra hours, as many as it took, to teach the bottom 10 of my company. I didn't have it as bad as some, but I likely spent 3+ hours every evening re-teaching what we learned in class to prep for the tests. Most were good guys, but dumb as a bag of bricks and a couple were barely literate.

There are plenty of relatively safe options of jobs to go into. This is HEAVILY driven by which service and what ones ASVAB score is. Higher score can equate to safer job. Depends on what you consider the front lines? I was on a ship that sent the first planes and bombs into Bosnia back in 96? but I was in the belly of an aircraft carrier and likely one of the safest places to experience war time. But my boss was an absolute slack jawed moron who got promotions due to kissing butt. Even his boss would joke about a drop in air pressure in the room when Libby walked in because the guy could pull a vacuum like no ones business.

 

[OrlandNole]

I went to a small rural high school in Florida. Taking the ASVAB was just something you did.

 

[Urban Cryer]

If you grow up in a military area (Like Pensacola) then it's in the water here that people should join. With that said, it's primarily going to be middle class and lower income people who do so as it's often shown as a way to get a degree, build a career, etc....

So from my perspective the military gets people from three areas.

1. Those with family ties or who grew up in areas that really honor the military.
2. Those who see it as their only way to a future career/college education.
3. Conservatives who want to be politicians, although I do think that's falling away. For a long time, you had to have armed forces background to be a credible Republican politician. I know a lot of people who have become officers because they want a future in politics. With that said, I think we're quickly seeing politics move away from those old tried and true requirements.

BIll Clinton was the first president in a very long time to be elected after never being in the military, I don’t think it’s a conservative thing, elected officials in general were sort of expected to be Veterans, and truthfully we were better off as a country when it was like that! Now they’re mainly lawyers....yuck.

 

[OrlandNole]

DP

 

[helmetnuts]

Well the average death rate for military members in the last 10 years is 27.7 per 100,000 or 0.027 percent. Add in that the average lifespan of americans went down this past year in large part because of the increased death rate of millenials due to the opiod crisis and the whole "ultimate sacrifice" thing seems kind of mute to me.

If we ended up in a major conflict with Russia or China then I could agree but then its more likely a draft gets installed.

I did almost 21 years, walked out with a college degree, pension at age 40, health care that is better than most people's at a fraction of the cost (my annual premium for my family is less than alot of people's monthly premium), I was able to transfer my GI bill to my daughter to pay for her college, still get commissary/exchange use (Crown at $33 a handle is a great thing). So my opinion is slightly skewed about the benefits of a military career.

As far as when I went in and the factors. Both my parents had decent jobs and I didn't go without much. We weren't rich by any means but I always had a few bucks in my pocket. I was an above average student (3.2) and a good enough hoops player to get a scholarship (Div II school). I proceed to party like a rock star when I went to college and my parents pulled me from the school (even though I was eligible and passing school). They had me enroll in a area school and that lasted about 3 months before I decided I was old enough to control my own life. Went to the recruiter instead of class on a Monday morning and immediately enlisted.

Got to see the world multiple times over, hit every continent except Anarctica, got to spend 5 years traveling the entire US with the Blue Angels and made hundreds of friends I will have for life.

My personal opinion (and probably not a popular one) is that if anybody who has a teenager asks me for advice or asks me to give their kid advice I would tell them to do at least 4 years in the military.

The advantages FAR outweigh the negatives in my humble opinion. When I was the Command Chief at my last two commands my advice was for my junior sailors to do their job (and do it well) but use the military for everything you can get out of it. I had alot of kids who I did professional development counseling on a regular basis (one of the main parts of being a command chief) and alot of them thanked me for their advice if they decided to get out after their first tour as most were far further along at 21-22 years of age, both professionally (as many either had a degree or were close, along with all the technical qualifications they got in their 4 years) and personally (there are certainly some knuckleheads in the military but I'll take the majority of them in terms of honor, courage and commitment over most of the millennials stepping out of college.)

 

[funksouljon]

BIll Clinton was the first president in a very long time to be elected after never being in the military, I don’t think it’s a conservative thing, elected officials in general were sort of expected to be Veterans, and truthfully we were better off as a country when it was like that! Now they’re mainly lawyers....yuck.

Having first hand experience of what war is like certainly helps someone understand the full impact of sending our Armed Forces to battle. Its not a requirement, nor should be, but helps. There is also a notion of being invested; how many in congress (who vote for war) have been to war or even have children? Its easy to send other people's kids to war, but you have to really consider all options when it is your kid.

 

[funksouljon]

............
The advantages FAR outweigh the negatives in my humble opinion. When I was the Command Chief at my last two commands my advice was for my junior sailors to do their job (and do it well) but use the military for everything you can get out of it. I had alot of kids who I did professional development counseling on a regular basis (one of the main parts of being a command chief) and alot of them thanked me for their advice if they decided to get out after their first tour as most were far further along at 21-22 years of age, both professionally (as many either had a degree or were close, along with all the technical qualifications they got in their 4 years) .......

Wish there were more that had that opinion.

On both my ships I received lip service on "take classes" and "advance yourself" but when it came to actually having availability to do continued education, it was very limited. And every time I signed up for courses, I was treated like I was inconsiderate to the rest of my work center. It also meant that I would have to work the 6pm-12 and the 6 AM to noon shifts. For 6 months straight 7 days a week. Plus work days in the afternoon and anything not completed during noon to 6 PM because I "skipped work" for school had to be completed during my off hours of midnight to 6 AM.

 

[Urban Cryer]

Having first hand experience of what war is like certainly helps someone understand the full impact of sending our Armed Forces to battle. Its not a requirement, nor should be, but helps. There is also a notion of being invested; how many in congress (who vote for war) have been to war or even have children? Its easy to send other people's kids to war, but you have to really consider all options when it is your kid.

Looks like more Veterans are going into office, but something to keep in mind, the military is a fraction of the size it used to be, that’s because wars are smaller, we lost 58,000 in Vietnam, that would not fly today.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/p...duty-employee-workforce-numbers-by-state.html

The states with the most total active duty and reserve members of the military, as of September 2017, were:

California: 184,540
Texas: 164,234
Virginia: 115,280
North Carolina: 112,951
Florida: 92,249
Georgia: 88,089
Washington: 64,066
South Carolina: 55,369
New York: 48,974
Colorado: 47,636 (The Academy?)

I would love to see the per capita stats. Bet they lean towards more rural areas.

 

[RTM58]

I didn't serve, but I know several guy through friends and work that did. I mostly enjoy their company, but it's a Type A crowd.

A cousin, with no family connection to the military, did ROTC in high school, Air Force academy for college, sat in silos in Colorado, lived at the US embassy in Russia for 4 or 5 years, was in California for a couple years, taught at the Air Force Academy for a few years, spent some time in Afghanistan, subsequently wrapped up a couple years in New Orleans, and then retired in his late 40's. He very much enjoyed all of it.


Nole: