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Who joins the military?

From what I saw he stated pilot. I gave all options for becoming said profession.

Why would you bank on people retiring and hoping that airlines are hiring when the military is dropping hundred of thousands of dollars to sign pilots right now?
 
Who said anything about retiring? After he fulfills his pilot training commitment, he will then be informed enough to make a decision to stay in or get out. Neither one of us is qualified to advise him 10 years down the road.
 
I'm not providing advice nor am I speculating. I'm merely providing facts. If people are not looking at retirement systems and how they work then I just think they are not looking at the career or company as a whole. Those should factor in when making a decision.

Nothing I said was so completely off base that I was wrong.

I wouldn't advise the young man to go into the military or not. It is simply his life. It is a sit down conversation that he should have with his significant other or, if he doesn't have a wife, husband, girlfriend or boyfriend, he should sit down and have an honest conversation with himself and look at all the facts, not mere speculations.
 
My oldest wanted to be a pilot since he was three. He is currently in the Navy training in the T45 jet in Kingsville Texas and loves it. I have seen the good side of the military in my visits to him when he was in Pensacola. I haven't seen the downside like being at sea for six months away from your family. He also works hard and has little time off when he is in a school. When he is between schools, he plays golf, works out, hangs out with his friends and has a lot of free time. He did not do ROTC...just went to the recruiter during his senior year in college.

The weekend before last he got to fly up with two others T45s be part of a static display for the Thunderbird Air Show in Detroit. He makes as much as most accounting or engineering major considering his housing allowance, food allowance etc. He has bonds with his co-workers that don't exist in the corporate world.

He did not get any "hiring bonus" for going into the Navy....or if he did, it was nominal like a few K. But I don't recall him mentioning that.

I am thankful that he never lost sight of his dreams when growing up and is able to pursue them. It's much better for him than doing tax/audit for the Big 4 and hating his job. He was an accounting major, did an accounting internship at KMPG, and didn't care for it at all.

I don't have a problem with the military. I have a problem with the politicians who send us into pointless conflicts. Old men start wars. Young men fight and die in them.

On another note, the son of a lady I know went the civilian route (ALLATPs) and was recently hired by a regional airline about 1.5 to 2 years after getting his ratings and flying cargo. With bonuses etc, he is making close to 70....so the Navy may not be the way to the fastest money in this hiring environment, but it's a different type of flying, and you don't need to spend 50K-100K to get your training.
 
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GwinnettNole said:
So the reason for this thread, not only to get the perspectives about the military, is my son wanting to be a pilot. I know I've mentioned this before. Its in his blood, my FIL flew... more as a hobby but my son has expanded on that and wants to work for Delta, SW etc. one day.

If there is one thing I can teach my kids is make smart decisions about NOT going into debt. This includes college. If my son wants to be a pilot the best option could be going to the Air Force and learning there. Lets face it, getting the necessary credentials and flight time to build up the hours to become a pilot, going the private route, is very expensive.... $100k at least.

So we started to look at other options. One of them is the Air Force. There are such major benefits of joining: I love the opportunities of learning about engineering and technology in the military. I love the idea of getting a college degree while serving. I love the idea of learning discipline. The list goes on.

In addition, we've looked at the Civil Air Patrol (getting youth interested in aviation and STEM fields) I like the focus it has. If my son wants to join that than great.

The thing I continue to struggle with is this as mentioned by someone on a military board: "Anyone entering boot camp has to realize that the chance of them fighting in a war is there. Thus the ultimate price to pay....." For all the benefits that is there this is what I struggle with.
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If your son if flying a cargo/corporate-type jet for the AF, there is little chance of him getting killed in combat. You can get ratings for far less than 100K. Check out the flying club at your local FBO. You only pay the cost of ownership. Nobody is making a profit.

If your son goes into the AF without a college degree, he won't be flying, at least for many years. He needs to be an officer. With the Navy, and likely the Air Force, you get accepted into a pilot track. If you wash out, you are free to leave the military without further obligation.
 
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surfnole said:
If your son if flying a cargo/corporate-type jet for the AF, there is little chance of him getting killed in combat. You can get ratings for far less than 100K. Check out the flying club at your local FBO. You only pay the cost of ownership. Nobody is making a profit.

If your son goes into the AF without a college degree, he won't be flying, at least for many years. He needs to be an officer. With the Navy, and likely the Air Force, you get accepted into a pilot track. If you wash out, you are free to leave the military without further obligation.
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Military pilot training is very intense and takes a lot of time and work. The higher you are in your class, the better your odds of getting what you want. I wanted to fly fighters. Never considered the airlines back then until I got educated 6 years later.
I cherish my military flying way more than all the commercial flying I did. Wouldn't trade it for anything.
Plenty of different types of aircraft in the Air Force. FAA will give you many of the advance ratings once you are checked out an have the hours.
The airlines also take into account what kind of airplane you flew vs how many hours you have. Still have to get enough for that all important ATP rating (1500hrs).
 
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" Never considered the airlines back then until I got educated 6 years later."

I am curious about what educated you to pursue civilian flying over military flying.
 
surfnole said:
" Never considered the airlines back then until I got educated 6 years later."

I am curious about what educated you to pursue civilian flying over military flying.
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Mexican-Flight-Attendants-Hot-Photo.jpg
 
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surfnole said:
" Never considered the airlines back then until I got educated 6 years later."

I am curious about what educated you to pursue civilian flying over military flying.
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Back in the mid '70's most of us in military aviation really had no clue about airline pilots. We pretty much thought you had to have 10,000 hours and had come up through the DC3,4,6 and 7 to be and airline pilot. Did not know about the compensation either. Some did as they had relatives or friends that were already there. Plus, I intended to make the Air Force a career like my Dad and brother (he ended up at United).
I get back to the states from my 2 year assignment in Holland and found out the airlines were hiring military guys big time, all you did was fly 3 days a week, and the pay and retirement were very high.
My mind was changed at that point. I even turned down an F15 to get out.
Plus, being in the Jimmy Carter military didn't help.;)
 
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I respect the sacrifice that military folks give and think it is important. For me personally there is no way I would or allow my child to die for America. My grandfather already fought in one war and couldn't vote for another 20 years. All while his first two children were born with no civil rights. Just hard to square what has transpired here and developing enough desire to die for the place for myself personally.
 
So, instead of fighting for a country that, yes has some scars and bad times, but has continually worked to overcome them. A country which in my opinion, the best poace in the world to live, and fighting to oreserve it and make it better, you would see it overthrown?

I dont get the mentality of it. Yes there were bad times, but good people have worked to fix them.

Good people have fought and died to continually make this country better.
 
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ReconGator said:
So, instead of fighting for a country that, yes has some scars and bad times, but has continually worked to overcome them. A country which in my opinion, the best poace in the world to live, and fighting to oreserve it and make it better, you would see it overthrown?

I dont get the mentality of it. Yes there were bad times, but good people have worked to fix them.

Good people have fought and died to continually make this country better.
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I agree with you to some extent.
 
funksouljon said:
NAVY has commissioning programs, I worked with a LT JG who was previously a chief.
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My cousin did that. He joined the Navy in, I think 99 or 2000, when he was 18 or 19 and made his way up to Chief. He had shore duty at Pearl Harbor for several years and got a degree on the Navy's dime at Hawaii Pacific University. He got an opportunity to go to OCS a few years ago and he graduated 1st in his class. From what I understand, he's got a good deal pay-wise. He's being paid more than other Lieutenants given how many years he has in already.

One of my fraternity brothers joined the Army in 2003 because he realized his undergrad degree in Philosophy wasn't getting him a lot of opportunities. He enlisted and they sent him to OCS. He spent a few years in, made his way up to Captain and got out in 2011 I think. He used the GI Bill to pay for law school.

My wife's brother went to the Naval Academy, became a pilot and stayed in for 21 years. He wanted to be a pilot and that was his reasoning for going to the Academy. He wound up flying E2 Hawkeyes. His retirement is outstanding.

My father-in-law and his best friend both used the military to their full advantage. My FIL grew up poor in North Dakota and enlisted right out of high school. He didn't have the money to go to college so he enlisted and managed to piece together a bachelors degree after a few years. I think he went to 4 different schools. Spent a year or two in Germany. The Army paid for him to go to medical school and he stayed in until right before Desert Storm, getting up to a rank of Major. He went into private practice as a radiologist after that and managed to retire at 64. His buddy grew up in a family without much money and he went to Vietnam. After he got back, he used the GI Bill for undergrad and dental school. The military allowed both of them to get where they wanted to go.
 
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FreeFlyNole said:
Worth a read:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/25/military-service-warrior-caste-united-states/
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Excellent find Free. If you study or look at the history of the military the elite were a huge part of it. It was almost an anomaly if you didn't serve in the military back then and were wealthy; it was just something they did. Teddy Roosevelt's son and grandson both landed on Normandy on D-day, Bill "Wild Bill" Donovan was a Medal of Honor Receipt in WWI, served in the OSS in WWII and recruited for OSS service exclusively from his wealthy friends. There are tons more examples.
 
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FreeFlyNole said:
Worth a read:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/25/military-service-warrior-caste-united-states/
Click to expand...

Agreed. "Old men start wars and young men fight them".

Our military today consists of mercenaries.

Start drafting Senator's sons and send them to the front line (CCR I think), and see how quickly we stop engaging in foreign wars. How many of our presidents have avoided the hardships of those who didn't have connections.

I don't think that there is a single American who doesn't agree that we don't need a military, but I for one doesn't think my son should die fighting in Venezuela, Iraq, Iran, Korea, Afghanistan, etc.
 
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GwinnettNole said:
General question for the military people in the know:

Help me understand the difference between an 18 year old who enlists in the military (basic training, et al)
vs someone who:
1) Joins the ROTC after/during college at FSU, for example,
2) Enrolls as a freshman at the Air Force, Naval or Army Academy (Schools)

From what I understand an 18 y/o who enlists in any branch is a private (after basic training). And then is a what is referred to as a "grunt" as they build up time in the service working on the job that is assigned to them within the military branch they chose. Which could also be fighting in an infantry in the front lines.

For someone that joins the ROTC (#1) or directly enrolls into the schools at AF, Army or Navy will they immediately be bumped to an officer upon graduation of the schooling?

One other question- I know what a reserve is but how does someone become one? and what is the criteria for entry?

I know these questions may be basic but as I said in the OP my knowledge of the military is limited. Thanks
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The difference is enlisted is going to be more like 18 year olds that join for various reasons (at least in the Army, which is my experience) are going to be privates and work their way up, or do their 3-4 year commitment in a specialty field they choose. So enlisted people choose "Hey, I want to be a satellite systems tech or 25S, (read, not a grunt) so off to fort gordon you go to learn about satellite transmission systems or I want to be an 88M (light wheeled mechanic) or I want to be an 11B (infantry)." They go to a recruiter, get the contract they want, then off they go to basic training.

ROTC is an Officer Training program, where you go in as an officer, which typically, depending on where you're assigned, you'll have 24-28 people assigned under you directly out of college, if you get a platoon leader slot. Great for a resume.

I did a little bit of both, Joined the Florida National Guard and did Infantry Basic (OSUT) and came out an E3, then did the Cadiot route through ROTC. Payed for College and then lived in Germany for a few years before getting out.
 
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surfnole said:
Agreed. "Old men start wars and young men fight them".

Our military today consists of mercenaries.

Start drafting Senator's sons and send them to the front line (CCR I think), and see how quickly we stop engaging in foreign wars. How many of our presidents have avoided the hardships of those who didn't have connections.

I don't think that there is a single American who doesn't agree that we don't need a military, but I for one doesn't think my son should die fighting in Venezuela, Iraq, Iran, Korea, Afghanistan, etc.
Click to expand...

No, our military doesn't consist of mercenaries.

Do you know any mercenaries?
 
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docb76 said:
The difference is enlisted is going to be more like 18 year olds that join for various reasons (at least in the Army, which is my experience) are going to be privates and work their way up, or do their 3-4 year commitment in a specialty field they choose. So enlisted people choose "Hey, I want to be a satellite systems tech or 25S, (read, not a grunt) so off to fort gordon you go to learn about satellite transmission systems or I want to be an 88M (light wheeled mechanic) or I want to be an 11B (infantry)." They go to a recruiter, get the contract they want, then off they go to basic training.

ROTC is an Officer Training program, where you go in as an officer, which typically, depending on where you're assigned, you'll have 24-28 people assigned under you directly out of college, if you get a platoon leader slot. Great for a resume.

I did a little bit of both, Joined the Florida National Guard and did Infantry Basic (OSUT) and came out an E3, then did the Cadiot route through ROTC. Payed for College and then lived in Germany for a few years before getting out.
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Well said Doc. I also bet you were a much better officer because of your enlisted time. When were you in the FLNG?
 
I joined after my freshman year in College. I was a dumb, lost kid with no real options. I chose the Air Force because my dad was in the Air Force. I wound up doing well and made a career out of it and retired after 20.

My middle child is joining after graduation. She has a free ride to college, but still wants to join. She wants to serve, see the world, learn a trade and have some stability.
 
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alaskanseminole said:
I joined after my freshman year in High School. I was a dumb, lost kid with no real options. I chose the Air Force because my dad was in the Air Force. I wound up doing well and made a career out of it and retired after 20.

My middle child is joining after graduation. She has a free ride to college, but still wants to join. She wants to serve, see the world, learn a trade and have some stability.
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Freshman year of HS? Or delayed entry till 18? Or ?

What branch is your daughter going into? Does she have an intended MOS/Rating/job yet or waiting to see what she qualifies for?
 
funksouljon said:
Freshman year of HS? Or delayed entry till 18? Or ?

What branch is your daughter going into? Does she have an intended MOS/Rating/job yet or waiting to see what she qualifies for?
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Ya, sorry...corrected above to college, not HS. LOL

She is joining the Air Force. She wants radiology tech, but is very open. I was an Intel Analyst (T1N471B), my dad a jet engine mechanic, her mom was a 3D (comm) and her step dad was a load master.
 
alaskanseminole said:
Ya, sorry...corrected above to college, not HS. LOL

She is joining the Air Force. She wants radiology tech, but is very open. I was an Intel Analyst (T1N471B), my dad a jet engine mechanic, her mom was a 3D (comm) and her step dad was a load master.
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Hahaha, I also didn't rule out that perhaps you were a 17 yo freshman in HS and simply skipped the rest.

Radiology tech.... translates well to a civilian job no? Has she looked to see how much of her certs in the AF will translate to a civilian position? I've heard some people have issues with translating military experience to civilian positions when govt certificates are needed. Other positions seem to translate smoothly.
 
funksouljon said:
Hahaha, I also didn't rule out that perhaps you were a 17 yo freshman in HS and simply skipped the rest.

Radiology tech.... translates well to a civilian job no? Has she looked to see how much of her certs in the AF will translate to a civilian position? I've heard some people have issues with translating military experience to civilian positions when govt certificates are needed. Other positions seem to translate smoothly.
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Haven't gotten that far, but we've met a lot of radiology techs over the years who were prior military...medical seems to translate very well on the outside. We'll be meeting with the recruiter once things calm down at school...dance team and homecoming season. lol
 
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alaskanseminole said:
Haven't gotten that far, but we've met a lot of radiology techs over the years who were prior military...medical seems to translate very well on the outside. We'll be meeting with the recruiter once things calm down at school...dance team and homecoming season. lol
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Are homecoming mums big down there like they are up here in the metroplex?
 
F4Gary said:
Are homecoming mums big down there like they are up here in the metroplex?
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Yep; they have the pre-made ones at Krogers. My poor daughter wants one because they are "so pretty" But they are twice as big as her tiny butt. For a while, the two high schools in our area moved away from people getting the super expensive audacious ones in favor of homemade to be more inclusive.
 
TexSkills said:
Those damn things were absolutely gaudy
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Lol, wut in tha hell are those things? Must be a TX thing. Got an audible chuckle from me sitting on an airplane. Some have led lights and feathers that drape to the floor. My lord.
 
PoopandBoogers said:
Lol, wut in tha hell are those things? Must be a TX thing. Got an audible chuckle from me sitting on an airplane. Some have led lights and feathers that drape to the floor. My lord.
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Ya, it's a Texas thing. My daughter is shopping for her Senior year mum material. I'm providing the back brace.
 
Similar experience here. Family went to my son’s AF BMT graduation at the end of August. Goosebumps, leaky eyes, the works. Proud. Damn proud.
 
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alaskanseminole said:
Haven't gotten that far, but we've met a lot of radiology techs over the years who were prior military...medical seems to translate very well on the outside. We'll be meeting with the recruiter once things calm down at school...dance team and homecoming season. lol
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There is a MOS in the Army that works on MRI machines. Once you graduate AIT I am told there is a line of recruiters from GE etc. to offer jobs. Starting pay is 40k or more. Your right medical stuff in the Army is a no brainier for civilian job translation.
 
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