Bud Light VP Takes “”Leave of Absence”

[NoleSince1961]

How so? The article states a drop in sales from a number of bars. "One pub in Hell’s Kitchen, a New York City neighborhood known for its large and vocal gay community, reported that Bud Light draft sales dropped 58 percent this week, while Bud Light bottle sales were down 70 percent."
So like I said in the post you would think there would be more support inside the LGB community. And why is the fact that its a Christian newspaper relevant? Should I only get sources from left leaning liberal sources? I didn't say this was a gotcha, just pointing out this isn't just centered in the red neck bars of the rural south.

Sorry it got your panties in a bunch by commenting on your other post.

There is zero support (as in zero) in the article that any gay bar boycotted Bud Light.
It’s a rewrite of other articles about Bud Light sales that has been repurposed and retitled here by a far right Christian news source full of National Enquirer level “news” catering to folks who really do not care about the accuracy of what they’re reading as long as it satisfies their confirmation bias needs.

Please point out any evidence whatsoever that the one unnamed pub in Hell’s Kitchen, full of all types of bars and restaurants catering to locals and visitors of all persuasions, has boycotted Bud Light.
Which bar are they referring to and who do they cater to?

The Ultimate Guide to the Hell's Kitchen Bar Scene

Hells Kitchen is a neighborhood on the West Side of Manhattan. Over the years, the area has been home to a large Irish-American community and working stage actors. The name 'Hell's Kitchen' is likely derived from a quote by Davy Crockett from 1835 when he called some men 'too mean to swab hell's...

restaurantclicks.com

There were only 2 named bars in the article (1 in MO and 1 in MA), both mainstream bars, and in neither case was there any mention of the bar itself “boycotting” Bud Light.

You find the lack of credibility and the severely skewed bias of your chosen source and the inaccurate title to be fine, and you bought it hook, line and sinker as they intended. Mazel tov on that.

 

[Ohio1nole]

It is an odd controversy to me,
what was it about the TikTok person that created so much anger when the rainbow cans did not generate a similar response previously?
If I was a BL consumer, I certainly would not throw out the beer I paid for over them using an influencer who is LGBTQ when the company has been public for years about their support of LGBTQ causes. Is it possible the people that became so angry were not aware of the rainbow cans?

Is it the over the top characterization that Mulvaney projects? Is there a belief trans people have in the last few years become "groomers" and were not previously?
I am genuinely curious why this person pissed off so many so badly that they would spend hundreds of dollars to make a reaction video to prove their anger.

Can't speak for everyone. And this is coming from someone who gave up drinking a long time ago. So I couldn't care less about A-B's sales.

But this created anger or frustration or whatever you want to call it out of me because I am so damn tired of getting the LGBTQIA+ agenda just rammed down throat 24/7 from news media, social media and corporations. Live your life however you want to live it, but just leave me the hell alone. Then you have this Dylan kid who is dressed in women face, paraded around every talk show in America, white house visits, social media platforms etc. And to me, Dylan is an insult to women. Period. He is dressed in womens clothing, acting like a flamboyant gay man. It is so over the top dramatic, that it is insulting to women all over. And I think you are seeing a lot of people with LGBTQIA+ fatigue.

We have this Dylan kid getting sponsorships from products that he can't even use, like Tampax. It's just hat everything has just turned into a circus and people are getting tired of it

 

[GeddyLee09]

There is zero support (as in zero) in the article that any gay bar boycotted Bud Light.
It’s a rewrite of other articles about Bud Light sales that has been repurposed and retitled here by a far right Christian news source full of National Enquirer level “news” catering to folks who really do not care about the accuracy of what they’re reading as long as it satisfies their confirmation bias needs.

Please point out any evidence whatsoever that the one unnamed pub in Hell’s Kitchen, full of all types of bars and restaurants catering to locals and visitors of all persuasions, has boycotted Bud Light.

There were only 2 named bars in the article (1 in MO and 1 in MA), both mainstream bars, and in neither case was there any mention of the bar itself “boycotting” Bud Light.

You find the lack of credibility and the severely skewed bias of your chosen source and the inaccurate title to be fine, and you bought it hook, line and sinker as they intended. Mazel tov on that.

I didn't say anything about boycotting. You don't agree with the source that's fine. Sales are down in an area that has a large gay communities and support like Hells Kitchen. Brian was pointing to people really hating trans folks and I stated that its in places you wouldn't expect. Ill be more clear next time.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Can't speak for everyone. And this is coming from someone who gave up drinking a long time ago. So I couldn't care less about A-B's sales.

But this created anger or frustration or whatever you want to call it out of me because I am so damn tired of getting the LGBTQIA+ agenda just rammed down throat 24/7 from news media, social media and corporations. Live your life however you want to live it, but just leave me the hell alone. Then you have this Dylan kid who is dressed in women face, paraded around every talk show in America, white house visits, social media platforms etc. And to me, Dylan is an insult to women. Period. He is dressed in womens clothing, acting like a flamboyant gay man. It is so over the top dramatic, that it is insulting to women all over. And I think you are seeing a lot of people with LGBTQIA+ fatigue.

We have this Dylan kid getting sponsorships from products that he can't even use, like Tampax. It's just hat everything has just turned into a circus and people are getting tired of it

According to some on here he can use Tampax. Just read the thread about Paganism.

 

[Ohio1nole]

According to some on here he can use Tampax. Just read the thread about Paganism.

I'll just take your word for it.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Also seems that people would be more discriminating consumers of news before jumping into a convo with their supposedly clever gotchas, right?
Why would you even bother citing a far right Christian newspaper which publishes an article purporting to show “gay bars boycotting Bud Light” when the info in the article itself says nothing at all about any gay bar boycotting Bud Light.
The only thing remotely close in the article is one unidentified pub in a NYC neighborhood with all types of bars catering to different demographics in which Bud Light sales dropped, and still no mention of the bar itself boycotting Bud Light.
Here’s some help with understanding that not every bar in any big city neighborhood with lots of whatever demographic is targeted to or frequented by that demographic: https://restaurantclicks.com/best-bars-hells-kitchen-nyc/
Did you actually read the article?
Where does it say what you claim it says?
Lame

Have you been to Hells Kitchen?

 

[NoleSince1961]

I didn't say anything about boycotting. You don't agree with the source that's fine. Sales are down in an area that has a large gay communities and support like Hells Kitchen. Brian was pointing to people really hating trans folks and I stated that its in places you wouldn't expect. Ill be more clear next time.

Lol you’re joking right?
You really think ”I didn’t say anything about boycotting” when you chose to post as your one and only source an article boldly and provocatively titled “Even gay bars are boycotting Bud Light over its new transgender spokesman”?

 

[GeddyLee09]

Lol you’re joking right?
You really think ”I didn’t say anything about boycotting” when you chose to post as your one and only source an article boldly and provocatively titled “Even gay bars are boycotting Bud Light over its new transgender spokesman”?

I didn't say boycott. But if it makes you feel better ill change the article to another source. Enjoy your Bud Lite.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Have you been to Hells Kitchen?

I’ve been all over NYC as a visitor many times for over 5 decades and ate and drank in just about every neighborhood, so I’m assuming yes. And one neighborhood flows into another, without clear delineations. Relevance to our convo?
Hopefully you know from your own travels that you can’t presume every bar in any big city neighborhood caters to any particular demographic.

 

[NoleSince1961]

I didn't say boycott. But if it makes you feel better ill change the article to another source. Enjoy your Bud Lite.

I don’t like any mass market beers, very rarely choose beer at all, but thanks for your clever commentary.

 

[GeddyLee09]

I’ve been all over NYC as a visitor many times for over 5 decades and ate and drank in just about every neighborhood, so I’m assuming yes. And one neighborhood flows into another, without clear delineations. Relevance to our convo?
Hopefully you know from your own travels that you can’t presume every bar in any big city neighborhood caters to any particular demographic.

No. But its notable that sales of a product drop in that neighborhood and city. As one who has spend time in areas such as Hells Kitchen and The Village you know that these aren't areas you would think would be affected by these events. Cater to? Not everywhere. More inclusive? Definitely.

 

[NoleSince1961]

No. But its notable that sales of a product drop in that neighborhood and city. As one who has spend time in areas such as Hells Kitchen and The Village you know that these aren't areas you would think would be affected by these events. Cater to? Not everywhere. More inclusive? Definitely.

Did the article you chose say anything at all about whether and by how much Bud Light sales have dropped throughout Hells Kitchen? No it did not. You’re making a completely unsupported assumption based on what you prefer the narrative to be, not based on any actual data that you’ve shared so far.

One unnamed pub in Hells Kitchen out of dozens. Could be one of the many more traditionally conservative leaning establishments… in and around Hell’s Kitchen, there’s also a very strong Irish Catholic contingent and other demographics not known for liberal inclusivity.

But yeh, cling to whatever narratives you prefer. My point was and remains that your article contains no actual corroboration of what you wanted to promote.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Did the article you chose say anything at all about whether and by how much Bud Light sales have dropped throughout Hells Kitchen? No it did not. You’re making a completely unsupported assumption based on what you prefer the narrative to be, not based on any actual data that you’ve shared so far.

One unnamed pub in Hells Kitchen out of dozens. Could be one of the many more traditionally conservative leaning establishments… in and around Hell’s Kitchen, there’s also a very strong Irish Catholic contingent and other demographics not known for liberal inclusivity.

But yeh, cling to whatever narratives you prefer. My point was and remains that your article contains no actual corroboration of what you wanted to promote.

Its not a requirement that you agree. Carry on.

 

[SoddyNole]

Quarterly reports will not come out until July but I suspect there will be a drop in sales. It is too easy for their customer base to reach over and grab another tasteless light cheap American beer.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Can't speak for everyone. And this is coming from someone who gave up drinking a long time ago. So I couldn't care less about A-B's sales.

But this created anger or frustration or whatever you want to call it out of me because I am so damn tired of getting the LGBTQIA+ agenda just rammed down throat 24/7 from news media, social media and corporations. Live your life however you want to live it, but just leave me the hell alone. Then you have this Dylan kid who is dressed in women face, paraded around every talk show in America, white house visits, social media platforms etc. And to me, Dylan is an insult to women. Period. He is dressed in womens clothing, acting like a flamboyant gay man. It is so over the top dramatic, that it is insulting to women all over. And I think you are seeing a lot of people with LGBTQIA+ fatigue.

We have this Dylan kid getting sponsorships from products that he can't even use, like Tampax. It's just hat everything has just turned into a circus and people are getting tired of it

My comments here are not about the Dylan beer controversy, since I had no idea who Dylan was and can’t recall even seeing Dylan before reading the rants on these boards.

But your (and others’) underlying indignation and anger, which is clearly not just about A-B and Dylan, is really perplexing to me.

You say “But this created anger or frustration or whatever you want to call it out of me because I am so damn tired of getting the LGBTQIA+ agenda just rammed down throat 24/7 from news media, social media and corporations. Live your life however you want to live it, but just leave me the hell alone.”

I’m a straight white male with family-members, friends and work acquaintances who are LGB… and I don’t perceive that any “agenda” is being rammed down my or anybody’s throats when I see people who are different than me represented in TV shows, movies, ads, etc. They all “leave me the hell alone” to live my life as I please.

Are they offending you when they speak out for their rights and their safety, just as every marginalized group has had to do to make progress against discrimination and exclusion… people of color, women, Jews, Muslims, etc.?

Do you also have “fatigue” about those demographics and feel they’re ramming their “agenda” down your throat 24/7?

Do you think the LGBTQ share of media minutes vastly exceeds their share of the US population, even looking out beyond your particular community/frame of reference?

Maybe my viewpoint is different since I’m much more focused on Golden Rule type of values rather than my interpretation of any religious doctrine?

Or maybe because all the LGB… people whom I personally know are such awesome high-value humans, whom I would prefer get the last remaining seats on any lifeboat if it came down to having to choose between them and many of the angriest, mockingest anti-LGB voices.

I’m not saying all people who express your “fatigue” are bad people, but I don’t understand where it’s coming from. And it matters because when that resentment is promoted and cheered on, normalization of the “those people are freaks who we resent” mindset contributes to getting LGB folk discriminated against, beat up and even killed.

LGB folk aren’t threatening to me and how I live my life at all. And I don’t resent seeing them represented on TV or in a parade or elsewhere.

What’s the agenda and 24/7 forcefeeding you reference, outside of the Dylan offense, which seems to be some straw that broke the camel’s back?

 

[Ohio1nole]

I’m a straight white male with family-members, friends and work acquaintances who are LGB… and I don’t perceive that any “agenda” is being rammed down my or anybody’s throats when I see people who are different than me represented in TV shows, movies, ads, etc. They all “leave me the hell alone” to live my life as I please.

You don't think there is an LGBT... agenda being pushed and constantly in our faces? I strongly disagree there

Are they offending you when they speak out for their rights and their safety, just as every marginalized group has had to do to make progress against discrimination and exclusion… people of color, women, Jews, Muslims, etc.?

Everyone deserves safety.

Do you also have “fatigue” about those demographics and feel they’re ramming their “agenda” down your throat 24/7?

Some of them yes. I have opinions of the BLM movement and the hypocrisy surrounding that. But that is another topic for another day.

I’m not saying all people who express your “fatigue” are bad people, but I don’t understand where it’s coming from. And it matters because when that resentment is promoted and cheered on, normalization of the “those people are freaks who we resent” mindset contributes to getting LGB folk discriminated against, beat up and even killed.

Nobody deserves to be beaten up, killed or discriminated against. It just seems to me, that we are living in some sort of fairy tale world where anyone can be anything they want and you must agree and accommodate their reality with no questions asked. Men can be women and compete in womens sports, no questions asked. Men can use womens restrooms, no questions asked.. You can have pronouns that make zero sense and I must abide by them at all times. and If I "misgender" someone, all hell breaks loose. We have people like Dylan who are front and center of all this and its just women face. It's tough to type out on a message board my opinion, but what I mean when I say leave me the hell alone, is that I'm tired of bending my reality to fit your reality.

What’s the agenda and 24/7 forcefeeding you reference, outside of the Dylan offense, which seems to be some straw that broke the camel’s back?

You mentioned Dylan.. Just to name a few, I would add the absurdity surrounding the Penn swimmer and all male athletes in womens sports that you see today. It's not just Leah Thomas, there are plenty of other examples. The drag show obsession takeover, especially the weird fetish of doing that in front of children.. Other things that bother me are the way things are covered in the media. We just had a trans person shoot up a school and all we cared about in some outlets were if we misgendered this person while talking about it. The white house refusing to acknowledge the victims in Nashville all the while so worried about LG community. Seems like a lot of hypocrisy.

I'm also in need of a social media, news, etc clense. That is probably where a lot of the fatigue comes from for me and many others.

 

[GeddyLee09]

My comments here are not about the Dylan beer controversy, since I had no idea who Dylan was and can’t recall even seeing Dylan before reading the rants on these boards.

But your (and others’) underlying indignation and anger, which is clearly not just about A-B and Dylan, is really perplexing to me.

You say “But this created anger or frustration or whatever you want to call it out of me because I am so damn tired of getting the LGBTQIA+ agenda just rammed down throat 24/7 from news media, social media and corporations. Live your life however you want to live it, but just leave me the hell alone.”

I’m a straight white male with family-members, friends and work acquaintances who are LGB… and I don’t perceive that any “agenda” is being rammed down my or anybody’s throats when I see people who are different than me represented in TV shows, movies, ads, etc. They all “leave me the hell alone” to live my life as I please.

Are they offending you when they speak out for their rights and their safety, just as every marginalized group has had to do to make progress against discrimination and exclusion… people of color, women, Jews, Muslims, etc.?

Do you also have “fatigue” about those demographics and feel they’re ramming their “agenda” down your throat 24/7?

Do you think the LGBTQ share of media minutes vastly exceeds their share of the US population, even looking out beyond your particular community/frame of reference?

Maybe my viewpoint is different since I’m much more focused on Golden Rule type of values rather than my interpretation of any religious doctrine?

Or maybe because all the LGB… people whom I personally know are such awesome high-value humans, whom I would prefer get the last remaining seats on any lifeboat if it came down to having to choose between them and many of the angriest, mockingest anti-LGB voices.

I’m not saying all people who express your “fatigue” are bad people, but I don’t understand where it’s coming from. And it matters because when that resentment is promoted and cheered on, normalization of the “those people are freaks who we resent” mindset contributes to getting LGB folk discriminated against, beat up and even killed.

LGB folk aren’t threatening to me and how I live my life at all. And I don’t resent seeing them represented on TV or in a parade or elsewhere.

What’s the agenda and 24/7 forcefeeding you reference, outside of the Dylan offense, which seems to be some straw that broke the camel’s back?

I'm also a straight male although non white. I also am non religious although not atheist. My issue here is that were not talking about a group that is born into a sex or a specific group like a Muslim, African American, woman ect... Were talking about someone who is born a certain way then deciding either through identification or other means that they want to be something else. He to a she, she to a he or any combination they choose to identify with at that time and being able to change that at any time if they see fit. As if men in women's sports isn't enough, now we have news outlets apologizing to mass murderers for misgendering them? People in workplaces are going to mandatory training not to learn about systemic racism, the Holocaust or sexual harassment but about pronouns and the latest letter added to the LGBTQ+++ equation. I'm all about live and let live and people being able to hold their opinion but this is starting tp spread into other areas. People are losing jobs for calling a he a she or a they an it. People are fearful to say why is a man competing against a woman in swimming or volleyball? Were talking about basic biology of male and female and from the same folks that will tell you follow the science when it comes to covid.

When do we draw the line? Do we allow a pedophile to sexually abuse children because they identify as a child? Do we allow a person to have sex with a cow or goat because that's how they identify? Its a very scary and slippery slope were on. It would have been better to argue about just Targets bathrooms but this is where we are today.

 

[NoleSince1961]

You don't think there is an LGBT... agenda being pushed and constantly in our faces? I strongly disagree there


Everyone deserves safety.


Some of them yes. I have opinions of the BLM movement and the hypocrisy surrounding that. But that is another topic for another day.

Nobody deserves to be beaten up, killed or discriminated against. It just seems to me, that we are living in some sort of fairy tale world where anyone can be anything they want and you must agree and accommodate their reality with no questions asked. Men can be women and compete in womens sports, no questions asked. Men can use womens restrooms, no questions asked.. You can have pronouns that make zero sense and I must abide by them at all times. and If I "misgender" someone, all hell breaks loose. We have people like Dylan who are front and center of all this and its just women face. It's tough to type out on a message board my opinion, but what I mean when I say leave me the hell alone, is that I'm tired of bending my reality to fit your reality.

You mentioned Dylan.. Just to name a few, I would add the absurdity surrounding the Penn swimmer and all male athletes in womens sports that you see today. It's not just Leah Thomas, there are plenty of other examples. The drag show obsession takeover, especially the weird fetish of doing that in front of children.. Other things that bother me are the way things are covered in the media. We just had a trans person shoot up a school and all we cared about in some outlets were if we misgendered this person while talking about it. The white house refusing to acknowledge the victims in Nashville all the while so worried about LG community. Seems like a lot of hypocrisy.

I'm also in need of a social media, news, etc clense. That is probably where a lot of the fatigue comes from for me and many others.

Thanks for your response.
I haven’t encountered this “weird fetish” that LGB folks allegedly have for doing drag shows in front of children… can you educate me on that?

And when one out of a gazillion mass shootings was by a trans person (maybe there have been more trans mass killers? idk) or the LGB % of killers is no higher than any other demographic, how is discussion or lack of discussion of their LGB status such a terrible thing that it rises to something fueling your 24/7 ramming hyperbole?

Seems to me we just come from completely different starting points about this supposed “agenda”, whatever it actually is.

Nobody seems to be able to pinpoint what it is that’s so offensive… and the whole “forcing us to accept their lifestyle” is frankly sad and pathetic… are you seriously pissed that females feel the need to force us to accept that they aren’t a lesser species too? Blacks as well? Really?

I do understand the seductive convenience of using soundbites/newsbites like the relatively rare Male-to-female in sports conundrum or this Dylan beer uproar to justify that 24/7 forcefeeding narrative, but come on, nobody is forcing you to change your life in any substantive way (assuming you haven’t been out there actively oppressing LGB people) to accommodate their happiness and well-being.

 

[CHAMLER]

If it gets back down to $62, I’ll buy plenty.

Bud Light is a terrible beer and American macro domestic is a terrible market. Anyone betting on InBev is betting on Central/South America and premium products.

I think you’ll have a chance to buy it for less than that after the quarterly reports come out.

 

[NoleSince1961]

I'm also a straight male although non white. I also am non religious although not atheist. My issue here is that were not talking about a group that is born into a sex or a specific group like a Muslim, African American, woman ect... Were talking about someone who is born a certain way then deciding either through identification or other means that they want to be something else. He to a she, she to a he or any combination they choose to identify with at that time and being able to change that at any time if they see fit. As if men in women's sports isn't enough, now we have news outlets apologizing to mass murderers for misgendering them? People in workplaces are going to mandatory training not to learn about systemic racism, the Holocaust or sexual harassment but about pronouns and the latest letter added to the LGBTQ+++ equation. I'm all about live and let live and people being able to hold their opinion but this is starting tp spread into other areas. People are losing jobs for calling a he a she or a they an it. People are fearful to say why is a man competing against a woman in swimming or volleyball? Were talking about basic biology of male and female and from the same folks that will tell you follow the science when it comes to covid.

When do we draw the line? Do we allow a pedophile to sexually abuse children because they identify as a child? Do we allow a person to have sex with a cow or goat because that's how they identify? Its a very scary and slippery slope were on. It would have been better to argue about just Targets bathrooms but this is where we are today.

Please share the science that supports your “follow the science” false equivalency comparison to Covid discussions, which supposedly proves that FTM and MTF transitions are merely the result of personal choice vs being motivated by anything genetic or otherwise hard-wired and further informed by medical expertise.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Please share the science that supports your “follow the science” false equivalency comparison to Covid discussions, which supposedly proves that FTM and MTF transitions are merely the result of personal choice vs being motivated by anything genetic or otherwise hard-wired and further informed by medical expertise.

You know exactly what I'm referring to. I'm not going to play examine the study with you on this so you can revert to your normal snark and questioning the source games. You are as your born male or female per your genetic make up. No surgery or pill can change that. That's the science or biology or what ever you want to call it. You believe what you want.

 

[NoleSince1961]

You know exactly what I'm referring to. I'm not going to play examine the study with you on this so you can revert to your normal snark and questioning the source games. You are as your born male or female per your genetic make up. No surgery or pill can change that. That's the science or biology or what ever you want to call it. You believe what you want.

You could have shortened that at least a little to “I have nothing but my personal feelings about trans people, so no matter what the vast majority of medical doctors and geneticists and health organizations say about non-binary gender complexity, I’m going with my preferred prejudices”

 

[GeddyLee09]

You could have shortened that at least a little to “I have nothing but my personal feelings about trans people, so no matter what the vast majority of medical doctors and geneticists and health organizations say about non-binary gender complexity, I’m going with my preferred prejudices”

That's not shorter at all. I see you didn't dispute what I said just added the non binary gender complexity term. What's the term for a gender neutral dog or cat or a non binary lion? Surely since the vast majority of medical doctors agree on this it has to exist across the rest of the animal kingdom. Or are we not mammals?

 

[GeddyLee09]

Gender is complex human personality trait.

Again, this conversation will go much smoother if we can all agree upon the established scientific fact that gender and sex are distinct characteristics.

I agree they are distinctively male or female based on your sex at birth. You can be a feminine male but you are still a guy. You can even be a masculine female but your still a girl. Can you become more of one or the other? Sure but your still either male or female.

 

[NoleSince1961]

That's not shorter at all. I see you didn't dispute what I said just added the non binary gender complexity term. What's the term for a gender neutral dog or cat or a non binary lion? Surely since the vast majority of medical doctors agree on this it has to exist across the rest of the animal kingdom. Or are we not mammals?

Was any of that supposed to make actual sense and not sound totally deranged?

 

[NoleSince1961]

Gender is a complex human personality trait.

Again, this conversation will go much smoother if we can all agree upon the established scientific fact that gender and sex are distinct characteristics.

I apologize if I got any of the terminology wrong. I just know that the actual real life humans whom I know and love, who don’t identify with their birth sex, didn’t make any throw-away whimsical choice to subject themselves and their families to the trauma they experience from unaccepting humans like those mocking and dismissing them here. And that all the legit scientific info I’ve read acknowledges the non-binary complexity of sex/gender for a not insignificant number of our fellow humans.

 

[GeddyLee09]

No. This is still conflating the two fundamentally distinct concepts of gender and sex.

Its not conflated to me at all. Its really simple. 1 or 0 that's all. There's no .75 or .25.

 

[Ohio1nole]

I apologize if I got any of the terminology wrong. I just know that the actual real life humans whom I know and love, who don’t identify with their birth sex, didn’t make any throw-away whimsical choice to subject themselves and their families to the trauma they experience from unaccepting humans like those mocking and dismissing them here. And that all the legit scientific info I’ve read acknowledges the non-binary complexity of sex/gender for a not insignificant number of our fellow humans.

Bill maher shares a lot of my opinion in this clip here. He explains my thoughts better than I can type on a message board.

 

[GeddyLee09]

No. This is still conflating the two fundamentally distinct concepts of gender and sex. You are creating your own definitions of "guy" and "girl" and forcing them upon people who do not agree with your definitions. Your definitions are not consistent with the definitions as used by the scientists and healthcare professionals who specialize in these topics. Male and female are adjectives that describe sex, not gender. They can refer to genetic sex, anatomical sex, hormonal/physiological sex; but they can not refer to gender.

I'm not forcing anything on you. I believe people are binary, man and woman, male or female based on birth sex call it what you want. You can believe what you want but don't force me into your beliefs.

 

[GeddyLee09]

I apologize if I got any of the terminology wrong. I just know that the actual real life humans whom I know and love, who don’t identify with their birth sex, didn’t make any throw-away whimsical choice to subject themselves and their families to the trauma they experience from unaccepting humans like those mocking and dismissing them here. And that all the legit scientific info I’ve read acknowledges the non-binary complexity of sex/gender for a not insignificant number of our fellow humans.

 

[GeddyLee09]

You literally just acknowledged that man and women can vary in being more and less masculine and feminine. That is explicitly a nonbinary view of gender. If you are allowing for people to vary from 0 (100% masculine) to 1 (100% feminine), then you are necessarily allowing for people to be .75 masculine or .25 feminine.

No. Masculinity and femininity are traits. You can be more of one or the other but it doesn't change the fact that your male or female, man or woman. It doesn't mean that because your more feminine that you can be a girl it just means your a feminine guy. The .75 and .25 is a reference to binary numbers 1 and 0.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Yes! You are finally getting it! Masculinity and femininity are traits and they do vary and they are distinct from the sex that a person is assigned at birth! We are now talking about gender! We are almost there!

No your hearing what you want to hear. I see no difference in gender and sex. You can be 100% feminine guy and your still a guy, man or male. Also your not assigned a sex at birth. Who assigns that sex? The doctor? Is there a sexual assignment officer at the state hospital that assigns sex? Google "when does a fetus become male or female". Youll see that the answer varies between conception to 6-7 weeks to even 20 weeks. One says all babies are conceived female. Also see how the term sex and gender are used.

Sex Begins in the Womb - Exploring the Biological Contributions to Human Health - NCBI Bookshelf

Boy or girl? The difficulties of early gender prediction | Your Pregnancy Matters | UT Southwestern Medical Center

While an ultrasound may predict gender as early as 12 weeks, Dr. Santiago-Munoz discusses why it’s not always possible — and not always correct.

utswmed.org

Sexual Differentiation - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[GeddyLee09]

I have no power to force you into recognizing that you are factually incorrect when you equate the complex human personality trait of gender with genetic or anatomical sex. Yet, I will continue to challenge the inaccuracy of your beliefs, because your beliefs directly cause harm to people who are already notably vulnerable and suffering in our society.

Yet, I hold out hope that you will eventually realize that no complex personality traits are binary. People are not just "smart and dumb" or "black and white" or "shy and gregarious." All complex personality traits exist on a continuum, and people can vary infinitely along those continua.

Well good because you wont change my mind. Also, nobody is being hurt or caused harm by my beliefs. I'm accepting of everyone. I don't have to agree with what they think or do but I accept their right to do so. You should try it sometime.

 

[BrianNole777]

Yes, your beliefs are causing harm, and they are hurting people. I know this because I work with a lot of transgender people, and they tell me directly and explicitly that people expressing the beliefs that you have hurts and harms them.

If you actually want to avoid causing harm, then keep your harmful beliefs about gender and sex to yourself.

This just came out from Dr. David Burns. It could help them.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Yes, your beliefs are causing harm, and they are hurting people. I know this because I work with a lot of transgender people, and they tell me directly and explicitly that people expressing the beliefs that you have hurts and harms them.

If you actually want to avoid causing harm, then keep your harmful beliefs about gender and sex to yourself.

Oh so everyone that doesn't believe what you do should just shut up so not to offend the sensitive masses. Any other advise comrade? Its a message board, I think opinions are allowed on here. Your free not to read them.

 

[noletaire]

Yes, your beliefs are causing harm, and they are hurting people. I know this because I work with a lot of transgender people, and they tell me directly and explicitly that people expressing the beliefs that you have hurts and harms them.

If you actually want to avoid causing harm, then keep your harmful beliefs about gender and sex to yourself.

Beliefs do not harm people, the actions that people take are what harm people.
Tolerance is NOT accepting or agreeing with someone, tolerance is co-existing with people, views, beliefs, etc.. you don't agree with.

Your last sentence is a clear indicator that you have become the very intolerance you profess to be fighting against. Carry on the Crusade, my good man.
peace out, bro

 

[NoleSince1961]

Bill maher shares a lot of my opinion in this clip here. He explains my thoughts better than I can type on a message board.

View embedded media

His comedy clip is about gender surgery for kids, which I believe is very difficult decision-making left to families and their doctors and not some “agenda” that anybody is ramming down your or anybody’s throats 24/7.
Or at least not in any of the media I consume or from any of the LGBTQ people and their families I know.

If Fox or whoever is cramming their fearmongering down your throat 24/7, maybe switch the channel or get out and meet more real LGBTQ folks and their families?

None of Maher’s comedy bit explained the LGBTQ “agenda” you’re so fatigued by, unless maybe you just said the quiet parts out loud?

 

[Ohio1nole]

His comedy clip is about gender surgery for kids, which I believe is very difficult decision-making left to families and their doctors and not some “agenda” that anybody is ramming down your or anybody’s throats 24/7.
Or at least not in any of the media I consume or from any of the LGBTQ people and their families I know.

If Fox or whoever is cramming their fearmongering down your throat 24/7, maybe switch the channel or get out and meet more real LGBTQ folks and their families?

None of Maher’s comedy bit explained the LGBTQ “agenda” you’re so fatigued by, unless maybe you just said the quiet parts out loud?

No need to meet any of the trans community., at the rate we are on, we will all be trans in about 25 years!

 

[GeddyLee09]

What is femininity and masculinity to you, if not gender?

When you are saying that a person can be a 100% feminine (gender) male (sex), then you are explicitly differentiating between gender and sex. People are absolutely assigned sex at birth. The doctor who completes the birth certificate assigns a sex to the infant based on observed external primary sex characteristics by (usually) checking a box on the form.

I do not need to google fetal brain development; I literally teach a college class on brain development that covers, among other things, sexually dimorphic development through physiological masculinization of the brain through exposure to androgens and the aromatization hypothesis.

As my favorite neuroanatomy professor in graduate school used to joke: "we are all born female until half of us have our brains poisoned by testosterone."

The complexity of these processes is exactly why my first lecture in this class focuses on the distinction between genetic sex, physiological sex, anatomical sex, and gender.

People are absolutely assigned sex at birth. The doctor who completes the birth certificate assigns a sex to the infant based on observed external primary sex characteristics by (usually) checking a box on the form.

He checks a box based on the baby having a penis or vagina in the majority of cases. They are filling out a form not assigning anything, nature has dome the hard work for them. Do you really think that that box checking is assigning a sex? And where did I say anything about fetal brain development?

Do you really teach young people?

 

[GeddyLee09]

No need to meet any of the trans community., at the rate we are on, we will all be trans in about 25 years!

Not trans, we will all be non binary, a sexual persons. That way we dont offend anyone.