COVID booster shot

[Dhersh]

Just wanted to pass along the Pfizer/BioNTech joint statement regarding a booster shot. I hope that the news of a booster isn't surprising and doesn't further discourage unvaccinated people who are hesitant.

Pfizer and BioNTech Provide Update on Booster Program in Light of the Delta-Variant
— As part of Pfizer’s and BioNTech’s continued efforts to stay ahead of the virus causing COVID-19 and circulating mutations, the companies are providing an update on their comprehensive booster strategy. Pfizer and BioNTech have seen encouraging data in the ongoing booster trial of a third dose of the current BNT162b2 vaccine. Initial data from the study demonstrate that a booster dose given 6 months after the
second dose has a consistent tolerability profile while eliciting high neutralization titers against the wild type and the Beta variant, which are 5 to 10 times higher than after two primary doses. The companies expect to publish more definitive data soon as well as in a peer-reviewed journal and plan to submit the data to the FDA, EMA and other regulatory authorities in the coming weeks. In addition, data from a recent Nature paper demonstrate that immune sera obtained shortly after dose 2 of the primary two dose series of BNT162b2 have strong neutralization titers against the Delta variant (B.1.617.2 lineage) in laboratory tests. The companies anticipate that a third dose will boost those antibody titers even higher, similar to how the third dose performs for the Beta variant (B.1.351). Pfizer and BioNTech are conducting preclinical and clinical tests to confirm this hypothesis.
While Pfizer and BioNTech believe a third dose of BNT162b2 has the potential to preserve the highest levels of protective efficacy against all currently known variants including Delta, the companies are remaining vigilant and are developing an updated version of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the Delta variant. The first batch of the mRNA for the trial has already been
manufactured. The Companies anticipate the clinical studies to begin in August, subject to regulatory approvals.
As seen in real world data released from the Israel Ministry of Health, vaccine efficacy in preventing both infection and symptomatic disease has declined six months post-vaccination, although efficacy in preventing serious illnesses remains high. Additionally, during this period the Delta variant is becoming the dominant variant in Israel as well as many other countries. These findings are consistent with an ongoing analysis from the Companies’ Phase 3 study. That is why we have said, and we continue to believe that it is likely, based on the totality of the data we have to date, that a third dose may be needed within 6 to 12 months after full vaccination. While protection against severe disease remained high across the full 6 months, a decline in efficacy against symptomatic disease over time and the continued emergence of variants are expected. Based on the totality of the data they have to date, Pfizer and BioNTech believe that a third dose may be beneficial to maintain the highest levels of protection.

 

[fsufool]

Just wanted to pass along the Pfizer/BioNTech joint statement regarding a booster shot. I hope that the news of a booster isn't surprising and doesn't further discourage unvaccinated people who are hesitant.

Why would anyone under the age of 65 or immune suppressed get it? Data isn't there............yet.

 

[Dhersh]

Why would anyone under the age of 65 or immune suppressed get it? Data isn't there............yet.

Perhaps there is some data and you should read the statement 😉

 

[GbrNole]

Why would anyone under the age of 65 or immune suppressed get it? Data isn't there............yet.

a new british randomized study compares 1 shot/2 shot astrazeneca, 1shot/2 shot pfizer, 1 shot moderna (because that has only just started being used there) to unvaccinated but with antibodies from prior COVID infection.

interesting results.

https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/files/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-survey/finalfinalcombinedve20210816.pdf

 

[Dhersh]

Nature paper referenced in the statement

BNT162b2-elicited neutralization of B.1.617 and other SARS-CoV-2 variants - Nature

Samples of serum from individuals immunized with the BNT162b2 vaccine show neutralization activity against engineered SARS-CoV-2s bearing the spike mutations from B.1.617 and other variants.

www.nature.com

 

[GbrNole]

Perhaps there is some data and you should read the statement 😉

they forgot to include earnings projections and forward looking statements 😁

 

[Dhersh]

they forgot to include earnings projections and forward looking statements 😁

This press release contains “forward-looking statements” of BioNTech within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements may include, but may not be limited to, statements concerning: BioNTech’s efforts to combat COVID-19; the collaboration between BioNTech and Pfizer to develop a COVID-19 vaccine (including a potential booster dose of BNT162b2 and/or a potential booster dose of a variation of BNT162b2 having a modified mRNA sequence); the potential of BNT162b2 for adolescents 12 to 15 years of age, evaluation of BNT162b2 in children 6 months to 11 years old, anticipated timing of regulatory submissions, regulatory approvals or authorizations and anticipated manufacturing, distribution and supply); our expectations regarding the potential characteristics of BNT162b2 in our clinical trials and/or in commercial use based on data observations to date; the ability of BNT162b2 to prevent COVID-19 caused by emerging virus variants; the expected time point for additional readouts on efficacy data of BNT162b2 in our clinical trials; the nature of the clinical data, which is subject to ongoing peer review, regulatory review and market interpretation; the timing for submission of data for, or receipt of, any marketing approval or Emergency Use Authorization; our contemplated shipping and storage plan, including our estimated product shelf life at various temperatures; the risk that demand for any products may be reduced or no longer exist; the ability of BioNTech to supply the quantities of BNT162 to support clinical development and market demand, including our production estimates for 2021; and challenges related to public vaccine confidence or awareness. Any forward-looking statements in this press release are based on BioNTech’s current expectations and beliefs of future events, and are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially and adversely from those set forth in or implied by such forward-looking statements. These risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to: the ability to meet the pre-defined endpoints in clinical trials; competition to create a vaccine for COVID-19; the ability to produce comparable clinical or other results, including our stated rate of vaccine effectiveness and safety and tolerability profile observed to date, in the remainder of the trial or in larger, more diverse populations upon commercialization; the ability to effectively scale our productions capabilities; and other potential difficulties.

😁

 

[QuaZ2002]

a new british randomized study compares 1 shot/2 shot astrazeneca, 1shot/2 shot pfizer, 1 shot moderna (because that has only just started being used there) to unvaccinated but with antibodies from prior COVID infection.

interesting results.

https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/files/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-survey/finalfinalcombinedve20210816.pdf

Thanks for sharing. I didn’t read it all and not super thoroughly but one thing that was notable to me was symptomatic vaxxed patients have as high a viral load as unvaxxed thus likely would be as contagious. They did speculate that it could be for a much shorter period of time which makes sense.

I got my 2nd dose in mid January so if they recommend getting a booster in Sept I will. I have a feeling i may have had a break through case in late June when I was feeling crappy for about 4 days. I assumed it was just a cold so never got tested but now I’m wondering.

 

[nynole1]

I wonder how many people will be getting COVID-19 and flu shots every season moving forward.

 

[Dhersh]

I wonder how many people will be getting COVID-19 and flu shots every season moving forward.

If I had to guess, COVID shots will become seasonal, but hopefully not.

That said, there are experimental mRNA vaccines being developed that may fight off a range of coronaviruses. Hopefully someday one shot can provide immunity from them all.

Experimental vaccine protects against multiple coronaviruses

By combining parts of spike proteins from different coronaviruses, researchers developed an mRNA vaccine that protected mice against a range of coronaviruses.

www.nih.gov

 

[nynole1]

If I had to guess, COVID shots will become seasonal, but hopefully not.

That said, there are experimental mRNA vaccines being developed that may fight off a range of coronaviruses. Hopefully someday one shot can provide immunity from them all.

Experimental vaccine protects against multiple coronaviruses

By combining parts of spike proteins from different coronaviruses, researchers developed an mRNA vaccine that protected mice against a range of coronaviruses.

www.nih.gov

What will you do in the short term?

 

[Dhersh]

What will you do in the short term?

I'm not sure I follow

 

[nynole1]

I'm not sure I follow

I was assuming you get the flu shot and have had the covid shot.
Assuming covid requires a booster every season, will you get that in addition to the flu shot every year?

 

[ChiefWB]

Flu shot in late September.

Pfizer booster in late October.

 

[goldmom]

They're working on "second generation" vaccines but they may be 2 years away. Also an oral vaccine will soon be ready to test.

 

[nynole1]

Flu shot in late September.

Pfizer booster in late October.

Will you be getting both every calendar year?

 

[Dhersh]

I was assuming you get the flu shot and have had the covid shot.
Assuming covid requires a booster every season, will you get that in addition to the flu shot every year?

Ah, sure I don't see why not. They will both likely be free and widely available at different locations. And since the flu is a coronavirus, perhaps one day we won't need to worry about getting separate doses. One vaccine will take care of them all 👍

 

[ChiefWB]

Will you be getting both every calendar year?

I get the flu shot annually. I have no idea what covid will be doing in a month let alone 12-14 months from now. Like most health related things, I will base my decision on the advice of my primary care Doctor.

 

[Dhersh]

They're working on "second generation" vaccines but they may be 2 years away. Also an oral vaccine will soon be ready to test.

Thanks I wasn't aware of any time frame. I'm sure research on these vaccines will continue for some time without being forgotten about, unlike SARS and MERS.

 

[goldmom]

Ah, sure I don't see why not. They will both likely be free and widely available at different locations. And since the flu is a coronavirus, perhaps one day we won't need to worry about getting separate doses. One vaccine will take care of them all 👍

I read where they have been working on a flu shot that does incorporate mRNA.

 

[AllNoles]

Dherf had you seen this? Suggests natural immunity is really strong.

 

[GbrNole]

Dherf had you seen this? Suggests natural immunity is really strong.

The UK study i posted above in this thread also coincides with these findings but is more expansive and segments Alpha results from Delta results plus breaks down effectiveness of the different vaccines and the number of shots received.

long story short, natural immunity did very well.

 

[nynole1]

Ah, sure I don't see why not. They will both likely be free and widely available at different locations. And since the flu is a coronavirus, perhaps one day we won't need to worry about getting separate doses. One vaccine will take care of them all 👍

I'm sure financial considerations isn't the only factor when deciding to get vaccines or not.

It's going to be interesting to see what choices people make. As a family, we never got the flu shot until we had small kids.

 

[krelden]

Consequences………

ACC announces updated COVID-19 policies for upcoming fall athletics season

ACC announces updated COVID-19 policies for upcoming fall athletics season

The Atlantic Coast Conference announced its updated COVID-19 testing and game cancellation policies Thursday afternoon.

www.tallahassee.com

 

[Dhersh]

Dherf had you seen this? Suggests natural immunity is really strong.

I had not seen that study specifically, but it does fall in line with what we have been learning overall - that natural immunity is generally effective, thus far, at preventing reinfection. That is a message that I am totally on board with at this time. One thing of note is that study has not been peer reviewed, an important step in proving validity to a hypothesis and one of the steps needed for it to be published in a medical journal. This goes back to our discussion a couple of days ago on preliminary data and if/when it should be reported.

This study disagrees with at least one other study regarding vaccine efficacy after initial infection. Its the Kentucky study that I responded to you with a couple of days ago. This study states there is little benefit to vaccines within 5 months post-infection, while the other suggests that there may be benefits (I don't recall the time frame). When it comes to the vaccine, neither study should be viewed as conclusive as both are considered preliminary at this time.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Dhersh]

I'm sure financial considerations isn't the only factor when deciding to get vaccines or not.

It's going to be interesting to see what choices people make. As a family, we never got the flu shot until we had small kids.

This is true. I am generally pro-vaccine and I believe in the safety and efficacy of mRNA COVID vaccines based on the data that we have so far. I haven't seen anything that would stop me from wanting to be vaccinated, so to answer your question, I would get vaccinated every year if it comes to that. I'm looking forward to seeing how peoples opinions on COVID vaccines evolve as well.

 

[GbrNole]

I had not seen that study specifically, but it does fall in line with what we have been learning overall - that natural immunity is generally effective, thus far, at preventing reinfection. That is a message that I am totally on board with at this time. One thing of note is that study has not been peer reviewed, an important step in proving validity to a hypothesis and one of the steps needed for it to be published in a medical journal. This goes back to our discussion a couple of days ago on preliminary data and if/when it should be reported.

This study disagrees with at least one other study regarding vaccine efficacy after initial infection. Its the Kentucky study that I responded to you with a couple of days ago. This study states there is little benefit to vaccines within 5 months post-infection, while the other suggests that there may be benefits (I don't recall the time frame). When it comes to the vaccine, neither study should be viewed as conclusive as both are considered preliminary at this time.

Thanks for sharing!

peer reviewed is definitely ideal and preferred but there is a significant timeframe involved with that typically and variants such as delta throw a curveball in that process.

 

[Dhersh]

peer reviewed is definitely ideal and preferred but there is a significant timeframe involved with that typically and variants such as delta throw a curveball in that process.

Its just another thing that makes understanding COVID that much more difficult. By the way, I've been meaning to dive deeper into the study that you posted. I hadn't seen that one, but its a long one and I haven't had time. I read the abstract and it seems like its building on the hypothesis of other studies. It seems more comprehensive in that regard.

 

[AllNoles]

No doubt sometimes the peer review process time is more an issue when you are dealing with a current crisis. We have to keep that issue in mind for sure, but we also need to do that on both sides. Not at all directed at you guys, just saying I hear both sides use the peer review issue when it suits them.

I look at two things here that I take as supportive of it being accurate. First, it really is a simple study so its less likely to end up being challenged on process. Second, it's the damn Cleveland Clinic

That said, this is the issue I want to see more and more of. Whatever the answer, we need to clearly know how well NI work so we can include that in our solutions.

 

[PopsNole]

I had not seen that study specifically, but it does fall in line with what we have been learning overall - that natural immunity is generally effective, thus far, at preventing reinfection. That is a message that I am totally on board with at this time. One thing of note is that study has not been peer reviewed, an important step in proving validity to a hypothesis and one of the steps needed for it to be published in a medical journal. This goes back to our discussion a couple of days ago on preliminary data and if/when it should be reported.

This study disagrees with at least one other study regarding vaccine efficacy after initial infection. Its the Kentucky study that I responded to you with a couple of days ago. This study states there is little benefit to vaccines within 5 months post-infection, while the other suggests that there may be benefits (I don't recall the time frame). When it comes to the vaccine, neither study should be viewed as conclusive as both are considered preliminary at this time.

Thanks for sharing!

@AllNoles The people that conducted study still said when natural immunity starts to run out they should get the vaccine. I'm not sure that study is anything ground breaking. We know most people have a good amount of antibodies after getting Covid. How long that lasts we still don't know and is likely different for each person. Those that did the study admitted they have no idea how long those antibodies remain.

I think we can likely say if you've had it recently your probably good for 6-8 months and then it's recommended you get the vaccine.

 

[Dhersh]

@AllNoles The people that conducted study still said when natural immunity starts to run out they should get the vaccine. I'm not sure that study is anything ground breaking. We know most people have a good amount of antibodies after getting Covid. How long that lasts we still don't know and is likely different for each person. Those that did the study admitted they have no idea how long those antibodies remain.

I think we can likely say if you've had it recently your probably good for 6-8 months and then it's recommended you get the vaccine.

Most coronavirus antibodies tend to wane faster than with most other diseases. Only time will tell how long COVID-19 antibodies stay after infection.

 

[GbrNole]

Most coronavirus antibodies tend to wane faster than with most other diseases. Only time will tell how long COVID-19 antibodies stay after infection.

This. Studies are showing that natural immunity is outlasting the double dose but the caveat there is knowing if you were previously infected. probably not a good idea to rely solely on a PCR test positive absent symptoms.

they should have made it as easy to get an antibody test as it was for a PCR test all along.

 

[AllNoles]

This. Studies are showing that natural immunity is outlasting the double dose but the caveat there is knowing if you were previously infected. probably not a good idea to rely solely on a PCR test positive absent symptoms.

they should have made it as easy to get an antibody test as it was for a PCR test all along.

All you had to do was give blood. That’s how I confirmed antibodies.

As for time I want to see the numbers. That’s why I keep saying that’s critical data to track.

 

[MagNoleA]

They're working on "second generation" vaccines but they may be 2 years away. Also an oral vaccine will soon be ready to test.

I'm all in for oral deliveries... It could make it less stressful for all parties involved.

 

[nynole1]

I'm all in for oral deliveries... It could make it less stressful for all parties involved.

People are really that afraid of a pinch in the arm? Mind-blowing.

 

[GbrNole]

All you had to do was give blood. That’s how I confirmed antibodies.

As for time I want to see the numbers. That’s why I keep saying that’s critical data to track.

i'm more particularly referring to cost associated with it originally.

 

[goldmom]

People are really that afraid of a pinch in the arm? Mind-blowing.

The ones who are afraid of a needle - but they have tattoos. 🙄

 

[goldmom]

If you're vaxxed and got the breakthrough variant, how does that affect antibodies and/or immunity?

 

[Dhersh]

If you're vaxxed and got the breakthrough variant, how does that affect antibodies and/or immunity?

Assuming you recovered, that means your body has built adaptive immunity towards that variant (and more than likely towards similar variants that haven't been through radical mutations). Theoretically, your overall protective immunity should be stronger after recovering from a breakthrough infection. Preliminary data may be showing the opposite is also true - stronger protective immunity in individuals who get the vaccine after initial infection.

 

[MagNoleA]

Flu shot in late September.

Pfizer booster in late October.

That's the ticket!