Death Penalty
- Thread starter ChiefWB
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You know this how? You know there is a story about resurrection but there is no actual proof. You have faith that it actually happened. I'm not saying they are all wrong but there's no way to really know.Good questions!
Two thoughts:
1.) All religions (at least the "main ones") can have aspects of truth in them. Notice that all the main religions teach some form of the Golden Rule. It's not like religions are polar opposites of each other in every way.
2.) How do we know which is the true religion? I'm going with the one founded by the guy who resurrected from the dead.
I do agree on the golden rule thing though.
I'm just curious. What proof do you have that Alexander the Great existed? What proof do you have that Buda existed? Until the 1950's, many cast doubt on the reality that there was a Roman Governor of Palestine named Pontius Pilate. Then an excavation found his name and title chiseled in stone in Ceaseria.
You're right that faith is required, but the proof of his existence and resurrection is as plentiful as any historical figure and event. The historical record confirms he lived. He died. And he appeared to numerous eye witnesses in the flesh after he was buried. The hard part is not proving this from the historical account. Those records exist in several historical chronicles in addition to the Bible; in the same way we have proof of Alexander's existence. The hard part is accepting it with all its implications.
I'm sure that portions of the bible are historical accounts of actual events and people. Some we have proof of some we don't just like other historical figures. The bible like any other history book is based on personal accounts of people which like many stories gets changed through the years.
I'm sure Jesus was an actual person and did many great things. Did he comeback from the dead? Not sure on that one.
Many people have also witnessed Sasquatch, the Lochness Monster, UFOs, a Gator without jorts, all manner of scary conspiracy signs, etc… not sure what any of that tells us about the truth and historical accuracy, especially hundreds or thousands of years later.
I tell my kids all the time. I'm not a full believer but I'm not going to run into a church yelling GD either. Same as bigfoot. I can laugh and joke at the shows about it but I'm not going in the woods looking for one.
I was buying this until the gator without jorts! A step too far!
Agree. I mean SOME things really are not to be believed.
I understand. I have been exactly where you' re on the topic. I only offer, let God be God.
Lot's of folks are unsure. Lots of folks are unsure we went to the moon. Some try to dispute the historical reality of the holocaust. Others argue the world is flat. Skepticism is real. It is also a reality that many (and this does not apply to you) have mocked and ridiculed the life, death and resurrection of Jesus to fuel their skepticism. But it has never changed the historical reality that the fact of his life death and claimed resurrection changed and continues to change the trajectory of human history. No one has ever martyred themselves for big foot or certainly for the notion that there are gaudders without jorts.
There are numerous secular historical accounts of the life, death and claimed resurrection of Jesus. So my point has always been to simply address your post questioning if there is actual proof. There is and it is the same historical data and rigor applied to any other historical figure such as Alexander The Great or Buda. Did he rise from the dead? The historical eye witness accounts can be examined. The second hand accounts of those who lived contemporaneously in his time can be examined and the contradictory contemporaneous accounts can be examined. And like the history of Alexander or Genghis Kan you have a picture of a historical figure and have to decide for yourself if all that is claimed in those accounts is fact. But there can be no rational claim that he did not exist or that his existence didn't have massive historical significance that continues to this day.Your correct. People believe crazy things and that's ok.Lot's of folks are unsure. Lots of folks are unsure we went to the moon. Some try to dispute the historical reality of the holocaust. Others argue the world is flat. Skepticism is real. It is also a reality that many (and this does not apply to you) have mocked and ridiculed the life, death and resurrection of Jesus to fuel their skepticism. But it has never changed the historical reality that the fact of his life death and claimed resurrection changed and continues to change the trajectory of human history. No one has ever martyred themselves for big foot or certainly for the notion that there are gaudders without jorts.
Ill add this though. While not a full subscriber of the creation theory and everything in the bible I also don't believe we are just rocketing though space on a spinning ball of water waiting on what the next chaotic event will bring. Something is exercising some sort of control. That control is the question.
That looks nice. A comfortable place for them to kill each other. Make prisons nice so more criminals want to go there. Good Idea.California to transform infamous San Quentin prison with Scandinavian ideas, rehab focus
"This week, Gov. Gavin Newsom will announce that California will take its own leap forward, rethinking the purpose of prison by “ending San Quentin as we know it,” he told me Wednesday.
By 2025, California’s first and most infamous penitentiary, where criminals including Charles Manson and Scott Peterson have done time, will become something entirely different: the largest center of rehabilitation, education and training in the California prison system, and maybe the nation. No longer will it be a maximum security facility. Instead, it will be a place for turning out good neighbors, incorporating Scandinavian methods.
The vision for a new San Quentin includes job training for careers that can pay six figures, trades such as plumbers, electricians or truck drivers, and using the complex as a last stop of incarceration before release. Tucked in the proposed budget Newsom released weeks ago is $20 million to jump-start the effort.
The plan for San Quentin is “not just about reform, but about innovation,” a chance to “hold ourselves to a higher level of ambition and look to completely reimagine what prison means,” Newsom said.
The “Little Scandinavia” unit features comfortable, open living spaces meant to encourage conversation and connection.
(Kent Nishimura / Los Angeles Times)
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Along with Pennsylvania, the Scandinavian philosophy of incarceration has already been implemented in pilot programs in Oregon and ultra-red North Dakota, as well as in small-scale experiments inside a few other California prisons.
But what’s envisioned for San Quentin is on a different scale. The choice of this prison, tucked on a peninsula in wealthy Marin County and overlooking San Francisco Bay, is a statement by Newsom about justice reform and about California — one with the potential not only to change what it means to serve time, but also to create a pathway to safer communities that our current system has failed to deliver."
In better news Idaho is implementing firing squad for death penalty inmates as an opition. Now getting the drugs wont be a hold up to executing folks.
Idaho's move to resurrect firing squad 'makes sense' as 'quickest, surest' death penalty option, expert says
Idaho is moving toward reinstating execution by firing squad amid the student murders case against Bryan Kohberger, who could face death if convicted.
Ever think of changing your name? I don't think Geddy would be thrilled with the connection.That looks nice. A comfortable place for them to kill each other. Make prisons nice so more criminals want to go there. Good Idea.
In better news Idaho is implementing firing squad for death penalty inmates as an opition. Now getting the drugs wont be a hold up to executing folks.
Idaho's move to resurrect firing squad 'makes sense' as 'quickest, surest' death penalty option, expert says
Idaho is moving toward reinstating execution by firing squad amid the student murders case against Bryan Kohberger, who could face death if convicted.www.foxnews.com
FWIW he also killed a sheriff's deputy before escaping - and he would've killed(?) another person at Gayfers, as he stabbed at the unarmed security guard but slipped and was only able to hit him with the handle.
Shouldn't take 30+ years in cases like this - let them pick injection, firing squad, hang, chair.
It is an interesting irony that the opponents of the death sentence have created this Byzantine process that has the unintended consequence of forcing a convicted felon to live for decades with the daily threat and dread of being executed. By eliminating the immediacy of the sentence, they have actually added inhumane mental torture, not only for the felon, but for the families of his victims and his own family. No one can get on with their lives, but must continue to relive the trauma of the unresolved events every day of their lives until the just sentence is carried out.
Opponents of the death penalty are the ones responsible for instituting the appeals process in the courts? Interesting opinion.
Exactly. As i noted earlier, the strategy of the opponents of the DP was to eliminate the immediacy of the penalty thinking that proponents of the DP would abandon the idea of maintaining the penalty. It worked in many states, but not all.
I am torn on it, as I mentioned earlier. For starters, the criminal Justice system makes LOTS of mistakes, and completely innocent people have been wrongfully put to death.
There are also some pretty nauseating politics involved in which death warrants get signed. You can bet the relevant Governor has her/his finger in the air to gauge the political winds surrounding the execution of Convict A vs. Convict X, and the timing of same.
All of that said, there are certain cretins in our midst whose atrocities are so outrageous — and whose guilt is so overwhelming — that the ultimate penalty seems appropriate. Not sure how to best sort out all of the competing issues.
There are also some pretty nauseating politics involved in which death warrants get signed. You can bet the relevant Governor has her/his finger in the air to gauge the political winds surrounding the execution of Convict A vs. Convict X, and the timing of same.
All of that said, there are certain cretins in our midst whose atrocities are so outrageous — and whose guilt is so overwhelming — that the ultimate penalty seems appropriate. Not sure how to best sort out all of the competing issues.
When, in modern times, has the death penalty been applied quickly? The same appeals process that those who have been sentenced to death use are also available to those convicted of other crimes. Are they just the beneficiary of the opponents of the death penalty?
Which is the biggest and best argument used by death penalty opponents.
I guess that too is subjective.
The penalty is less than uniformly applied, both in terms of prosecutorial election and then gubernatorial selection. That’s probably my biggest issue with it, followed closely by the collective foibles of prosecutors, public defenders and judges.
Kinda of a trick question, isn't it? Since the eighties, there have been essentially moratoriums on the death penalty and of course the Supreme Court of the time made the death penalty unconstitutional in 1972. Then revised the notion in '77. Several states outlawed it in view of this while others were reluctant to spend time on it when the SCOTUS was so determine to eliminate it despite the views of the states. NY eliminate it for ~35 years, then reinstated it.
But to try and answer your question, in the sixties, enforcement was relatively prompt, usually. More recently, Timothy McVeigh was on death row about 6 years. You might find this of interest
history
Timothy McVeigh is an extreme example to use to try to prove a common place action.
Easy there. No need to try and put words in my mouth. I just referenced that case because OK applies the death sentence as opposed to other states that don't. My answer and the link made a genuine attempt to answer you.
I'll leave you to this discussion.
Yes, I'm all for the appeals process - but for those that are deserving by the evidence being overwhelming, they admit to it, have multiple unbiased eyewitnesses, caught in the act, it should be within a year IMO. I hesitate to say "on video" because as we've seen, that may not be reliable as technology progresses.
I imagine all these on death row dream of the helicopter over the fence or the truck through the wall like in the movies. Or just hope the laws get relaxed to the point of overturning or lessening the sentence.
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I'm more inclined to have it done more often but a year seems ok. It gives the option for appeal or new evidence but doesn't drag the process out.
Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time!
This lack of being accountable for your actions started back after I graduated high school in 75
Letting prisoners out to prey on the innocent public is just wrong
I believe violent and non-violent convicts should be in separate facilities
To me the death penalty is not a deterrent , but you must pay for the crime
I don’t understand how one can be against the death penalty for the guilty but ok with abortion of the innocent
For me do away with both
This lack of being accountable for your actions started back after I graduated high school in 75
Letting prisoners out to prey on the innocent public is just wrong
I believe violent and non-violent convicts should be in separate facilities
To me the death penalty is not a deterrent , but you must pay for the crime
I don’t understand how one can be against the death penalty for the guilty but ok with abortion of the innocent
For me do away with both
The police in Nashiville quickly eliminated any debate over the deathy penalty, a just prison system, cruel and unusual punishment, rehabilation and retribution/justice versus reform/rehabilitation.
We should thank them.
They didn't dither outside for more than hour as the gunman continued his massacre.
We should thank them.
They didn't dither outside for more than hour as the gunman continued his massacre.
Yep. No lengthy trial costing taxpayer dollars, no debating over the sentence and method used, no sourcing hard to find drugs for the dirt nap shot. Double tap to the chest and one to the head to make sure.
Its not a deterrent because its basically a life sentence. If they would execute these folks inside of 12 months it would become more of a deterrent. But lets put them in a redesigned prison with cable tv other niceties instead (Sarcasm font).
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