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Let’s talk about vaccines

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QuaZ2002

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sc...d-19-vaccine-clinical-trials-speed-safety/ampI’ve come to the realization that here in the US there’s no realistic way to reopen everything without huge spikes in cases which then lead to hospitalizations and deaths. So really at this point we all need to hope the vaccine comes sooner than later.

The good news is there do seem to be a few very promising options that are already into Stage III of clinical trials which would put them on track to be available to the public by January 2021 or possibly sooner. Astra Zeneca has started their Stage III trial and Moderna is supposed to be starting their’s within a month. These are the large population trials, like 10,000ish people, and would be the final step towards approval. These two vaccines (along with a few others) have shown promising results in early stage trials so we aren’t just throwing crap at the wall here.

What have you guys been hearing? Will you be lined up to get the vaccine? I work in healthcare so I’m guessing it will be mandatory for us all, and I’m ok with that.
 
Right but that means everyday is reported like that not just one and yet it’s the only day we’ve had over 100 and then followed up with 92 today. Seems like a trend. Take it a step further, a few weeks ago our 7 day average for deaths was 31, now it’s 58. Are you following? If it’s 70 by next week will that still just be reporting lag or will you acknowledge the trend? When hospitals I work at are telling doctors to discharge patients if at all possible and warning them that elective procedures may need to be postponed again is that someone manipulating numbers or people acknowledging realities?
 
Based on the exponential growth in positive cases vs deaths, I'd say FLA is is an okay spot now.

That could change, absolutely.
 
So anyone else have any thoughts on the vaccine?
 
I’ve got a boatload of moderna stock. Hope it ends up working.
 
The problem with a vaccine when used to combat a constantly mutating virus is the virus is a moving target. What works this week may not next month. Heck, Fauci has been bragging about working on an AIDs vaccine for 20 years with no apparent success. I have doctors and nurses in my family so this is a running text thread with us. There does seem to be positive results from using inhaled steroids, especially in early treatments, and I know doctors are encouraged by that. It makes sense since COVID attacks the respiratory system as does asthma. Plus the medicine is cheap and easy to obtain (Budesomide). The doctors that are "boots on the ground" during this pandemic are trying a lot of things but can't seem to get much traction on a national level when they are successful for whatever reason. I realize this can be classified as "anecdotal" and dismissed but so be it. It is worth sharing to get beyond numbers, stats, and emotions and reveal some real-world efforts.
 
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jaycolle said:
The problem with a vaccine when used to combat a constantly mutating virus is the virus is a moving target. What works this week may not next month. Heck, Fauci has been bragging about working on an AIDs vaccine for 20 years with no apparent success. I have doctors and nurses in my family so this is a running text thread with us. There does seem to be positive results from using inhaled steroids, especially in early treatments, and I know doctors are encouraged by that. It makes sense since COVID attacks the respiratory system as does asthma. Plus the medicine is cheap and easy to obtain (Budesomide). The doctors that are "boots on the ground" during this pandemic are trying a lot of things but can't seem to get much traction on a national level when they are successful for whatever reason. I realize this can be classified as "anecdotal" and dismissed but so be it. It is worth sharing to get beyond numbers, stats, and emotions and reveal some real-world efforts.
Click to expand...
I think the vaccine will continue to evolve but I’m not under the impression the virus is mutating so dramatically in short periods of time that the vaccine won’t be effective. But it may be like the flu vaccine in that it’s a yearly thing.
 
QuaZ2002 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sc...d-19-vaccine-clinical-trials-speed-safety/ampI’ve come to the realization that here in the US there’s no realistic way to reopen everything without huge spikes in cases which then lead to hospitalizations and deaths. So really at this point we all need to hope the vaccine comes sooner than later.

The good news is there do seem to be a few very promising options that are already into Stage III of clinical trials which would put them on track to be available to the public by January 2021 or possibly sooner. Astra Zeneca has started their Stage III trial and Moderna is supposed to be starting their’s within a month. These are the large population trials, like 10,000ish people, and would be the final step towards approval. These two vaccines (along with a few others) have shown promising results in early stage trials so we aren’t just throwing crap at the wall here.

What have you guys been hearing? Will you be lined up to get the vaccine? I work in healthcare so I’m guessing it will be mandatory for us all, and I’m ok with that.
Click to expand...
No. I will not accept any vaccine implemented this fast.
 
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flmom777 said:
There is no way to know the risk/benefit of any vaccine that is put out there without long term clinical trials.
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I will take my chances with the vaccine. Like people have said countless times on this board, life comes with risks. I imagine much of what goes into this vaccine is similar to other vaccines that have been used for decades. I will do a little research prior to getting the shot but I have every intention of getting vaccinated if and when it is available.
 
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While this virus has different strains, the doctors do not call it mutating and it is not affecting the current testing.
 
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QuaZ2002 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sc...d-19-vaccine-clinical-trials-speed-safety/ampI’ve come to the realization that here in the US there’s no realistic way to reopen everything without huge spikes in cases which then lead to hospitalizations and deaths. So really at this point we all need to hope the vaccine comes sooner than later.

The good news is there do seem to be a few very promising options that are already into Stage III of clinical trials which would put them on track to be available to the public by January 2021 or possibly sooner. Astra Zeneca has started their Stage III trial and Moderna is supposed to be starting their’s within a month. These are the large population trials, like 10,000ish people, and would be the final step towards approval. These two vaccines (along with a few others) have shown promising results in early stage trials so we aren’t just throwing crap at the wall here.

What have you guys been hearing? Will you be lined up to get the vaccine? I work in healthcare so I’m guessing it will be mandatory for us all, and I’m ok with that.
Click to expand...

From a wired article: https://www.wired.com/story/covid-1...tPromo&source=EDT_WIR_NEWSLETTER_0_SCIENCE_ZZ

With last week’s paper from Moderna, results from that same group of people finally had their formal publication. At the same time, the group registered a 30,000-person phase 3 clinical trial, specifying a pair of 100-microgram injections of the Covid-19 vaccine. According to the press release from May, there were no serious adverse events for the people in that particular dosage group. But last week’s paper shows the full results: By the time they’d had two doses, every single one was showing signs of headaches, chills or fatigue; and for at least 80 percent this could have been enough to interfere with their normal activities. A participant who had a severe reaction to a particularly high dose has talked in detail about how bad it was: If reactions even half as bad as this were to be common for some of these vaccines, they will be hard sells once they reach the community—and there could be a lot of people who are reluctant to get the second injection.

And from another vaccine trial:

The press release for Monday’s publication of results from the Oxford vaccine trials described an increased frequency of “minor side effects” among participants. A look at the actual paper, though, reveals this to be a marketing spin that has since been parroted in media reports. (The phrases “minor side effects” or “only minor side effects” appeared in writeups from the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and Reuters, among other outlets.) Yes, mild reactions were far more common than worse ones. But moderate or severe harms—defined as being bad enough to interfere with daily life or needing medical care—were common, too. Around one-third of people vaccinated with the Covid-19 vaccine without acetaminophen experienced moderate or severe chills, fatigue, headache, malaise, and/or feverishness. Close to 10 percent had a fever of at least 100.4 degrees and just over one-fourth developed moderate or severe muscle aches. That’s a lot, in a young and healthy group of people—and the acetaminophen didn’t help much for most of those problems.

This is what I warned people about. The media is not doing its job and hasn't since the beginning. These vaccines are not what you think they are right now. This is why experts were saying we are a long way off from a workable vaccine.
 
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fsufool said:
From a wired article: https://www.wired.com/story/covid-1...tPromo&source=EDT_WIR_NEWSLETTER_0_SCIENCE_ZZ

With last week’s paper from Moderna, results from that same group of people finally had their formal publication. At the same time, the group registered a 30,000-person phase 3 clinical trial, specifying a pair of 100-microgram injections of the Covid-19 vaccine. According to the press release from May, there were no serious adverse events for the people in that particular dosage group. But last week’s paper shows the full results: By the time they’d had two doses, every single one was showing signs of headaches, chills or fatigue; and for at least 80 percent this could have been enough to interfere with their normal activities. A participant who had a severe reaction to a particularly high dose has talked in detail about how bad it was: If reactions even half as bad as this were to be common for some of these vaccines, they will be hard sells once they reach the community—and there could be a lot of people who are reluctant to get the second injection.

And from another vaccine trial:

The press release for Monday’s publication of results from the Oxford vaccine trials described an increased frequency of “minor side effects” among participants. A look at the actual paper, though, reveals this to be a marketing spin that has since been parroted in media reports. (The phrases “minor side effects” or “only minor side effects” appeared in writeups from the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and Reuters, among other outlets.) Yes, mild reactions were far more common than worse ones. But moderate or severe harms—defined as being bad enough to interfere with daily life or needing medical care—were common, too. Around one-third of people vaccinated with the Covid-19 vaccine without acetaminophen experienced moderate or severe chills, fatigue, headache, malaise, and/or feverishness. Close to 10 percent had a fever of at least 100.4 degrees and just over one-fourth developed moderate or severe muscle aches. That’s a lot, in a young and healthy group of people—and the acetaminophen didn’t help much for most of those problems.

This is what I warned people about. The media is not doing its job and hasn't since the beginning. These vaccines are not what you think they are right now. This is why experts were saying we are a long way off from a workable vaccine.
Click to expand...

The Moderna reaction sound just like the double dose Shingles vaccination I had late last year....I felt like crap...I’ll take my chances.
 
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fsufool said:
From a wired article: https://www.wired.com/story/covid-1...tPromo&source=EDT_WIR_NEWSLETTER_0_SCIENCE_ZZ

With last week’s paper from Moderna, results from that same group of people finally had their formal publication. At the same time, the group registered a 30,000-person phase 3 clinical trial, specifying a pair of 100-microgram injections of the Covid-19 vaccine. According to the press release from May, there were no serious adverse events for the people in that particular dosage group. But last week’s paper shows the full results: By the time they’d had two doses, every single one was showing signs of headaches, chills or fatigue; and for at least 80 percent this could have been enough to interfere with their normal activities. A participant who had a severe reaction to a particularly high dose has talked in detail about how bad it was: If reactions even half as bad as this were to be common for some of these vaccines, they will be hard sells once they reach the community—and there could be a lot of people who are reluctant to get the second injection.

And from another vaccine trial:

The press release for Monday’s publication of results from the Oxford vaccine trials described an increased frequency of “minor side effects” among participants. A look at the actual paper, though, reveals this to be a marketing spin that has since been parroted in media reports. (The phrases “minor side effects” or “only minor side effects” appeared in writeups from the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and Reuters, among other outlets.) Yes, mild reactions were far more common than worse ones. But moderate or severe harms—defined as being bad enough to interfere with daily life or needing medical care—were common, too. Around one-third of people vaccinated with the Covid-19 vaccine without acetaminophen experienced moderate or severe chills, fatigue, headache, malaise, and/or feverishness. Close to 10 percent had a fever of at least 100.4 degrees and just over one-fourth developed moderate or severe muscle aches. That’s a lot, in a young and healthy group of people—and the acetaminophen didn’t help much for most of those problems.

This is what I warned people about. The media is not doing its job and hasn't since the beginning. These vaccines are not what you think they are right now. This is why experts were saying we are a long way off from a workable vaccine.
Click to expand...
Yeah I’m just not sure I agree. So “close to 10%” had a low grade fever? 1/3 had some very vague symptoms of something. It’s not done, and perhaps dosing will be altered, but this will very likely be approved this year. Literally the entire world is depending on it. But we’ll see if the side effects are worse for elderly, it not, this is a non issue.
 
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fsufool said:
From a wired article: https://www.wired.com/story/covid-1...tPromo&source=EDT_WIR_NEWSLETTER_0_SCIENCE_ZZ

With last week’s paper from Moderna, results from that same group of people finally had their formal publication. At the same time, the group registered a 30,000-person phase 3 clinical trial, specifying a pair of 100-microgram injections of the Covid-19 vaccine. According to the press release from May, there were no serious adverse events for the people in that particular dosage group. But last week’s paper shows the full results: By the time they’d had two doses, every single one was showing signs of headaches, chills or fatigue; and for at least 80 percent this could have been enough to interfere with their normal activities. A participant who had a severe reaction to a particularly high dose has talked in detail about how bad it was: If reactions even half as bad as this were to be common for some of these vaccines, they will be hard sells once they reach the community—and there could be a lot of people who are reluctant to get the second injection.

And from another vaccine trial:

The press release for Monday’s publication of results from the Oxford vaccine trials described an increased frequency of “minor side effects” among participants. A look at the actual paper, though, reveals this to be a marketing spin that has since been parroted in media reports. (The phrases “minor side effects” or “only minor side effects” appeared in writeups from the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and Reuters, among other outlets.) Yes, mild reactions were far more common than worse ones. But moderate or severe harms—defined as being bad enough to interfere with daily life or needing medical care—were common, too. Around one-third of people vaccinated with the Covid-19 vaccine without acetaminophen experienced moderate or severe chills, fatigue, headache, malaise, and/or feverishness. Close to 10 percent had a fever of at least 100.4 degrees and just over one-fourth developed moderate or severe muscle aches. That’s a lot, in a young and healthy group of people—and the acetaminophen didn’t help much for most of those problems.

This is what I warned people about. The media is not doing its job and hasn't since the beginning. These vaccines are not what you think they are right now. This is why experts were saying we are a long way off from a workable vaccine.
Click to expand...
I was wondering why all the vaccine companies stocks were red yesterday
 
The media coverage of this whole thing is comical. Also, people have to understand we as a nation are very unhealthy to begin with, mainly due to our diets. This thing hits the obese and diabetics bad, but nobody ever talks about bringing PE and mandatory sports back into schools.
 
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FSUDoles said:
The Moderna reaction sound just like the double dose Shingles vaccination I had late last year....I felt like crap...I’ll take my chances.
Click to expand...


Agreed. I had a pneumonia vaccine a couple of months ago. The reaction kicked my butt for a day, but that is much better than catching the pneumonia. If the COVID-19 vaccine has the same side effects, I will take my chances on the vaccine.
 
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I understand being concerned the vaccines are getting pushed through much more quickly than normal, but they still have to be approved by the FDA. If a huge segment of the population refuses to get vaccinated, this effort will have been for naught.
 
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sfreed23 said:
Agreed. I had a pneumonia vaccine a couple of months ago. The reaction kicked my butt for a day, but that is much better than catching the pneumonia. If the COVID-19 vaccine has the same side effects, I will take my chances on the vaccine.
Click to expand...
I got the vaccine about three months ago and had no reaction at all, but I have friends who had your situation as well. There’s a second follow up needed in a year.
 
Zero chance I give the first iteration of whatever "vaccine" they come up with to anyone in my family, kids included.
 
MIKE_G said:
I understand being concerned the vaccines are getting pushed through much more quickly than normal, but they still have to be approved by the FDA. If a huge segment of the population refuses to get vaccinated, this effort will have been for naught.
Click to expand...
Well the FDA also approved Quaaludes, Darvocet, DES, Vioxx. They can make mistakes, especially with something as rushed as this.
 
bryanscho said:
Well the FDA also approved Quaaludes, Darvocet, DES, Vioxx. They can make mistakes, especially with something as rushed as this.
Click to expand...
You're worried people are going to start abusing the Covid-19 vaccine like 'Ludes?
 
O/u 43.5 how many times flmom has said “this is just the flu?”
 
No. Two things.... I don't take the flu shot. And I am not afraid to die.
 
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