Privileged questions?

[fsufool]

Lol. You are the king of insecure projection, aren’t you? I posted multiple studies demonstrating racial inequities in multiple facets of life. You totally ignored them, brushing them off as “cherry picking” lol, and then posted one single study, the very definition of “cherry picking” (vs my varied collection) and about a completely different aspect of life, and now you claim your one unrelated citation “called into question” the studies and analyses of studies I shared.
Holy crap, that’s the weakest of weak sauce.
Keep trying though, if you think that’s productive.

WTF................it was an example of what is out there to find. I don't have the time nor inclination to provide examples of studies to counter every thing you post. Some of the stuff you post are pretty good and do represent a majority opinion. Others not so much. And even it I did, it wouldn't lead to a productive discussion that you would participate in. You lecture, belittle others and their ideas and refuse to even speak on others ideas or studies. Few on here are in so many noxious post battles as you are. Seems I have come under the gun of late.............for suggesting that you have cherry picked studies that reinforce your beliefs and pretending that is the last word; science has ended and you know THE TRUTH.

I got news for you, science has not ended and your beliefs are not THE TRUTH that can't be argued against.

By the way, if you did read the write up on the meta look at the studies on bias in police shootings, how did that inform your thoughts on it? What did you take from it? Change your thinking at all?

 

[NoleSince1961]

Like Fauci he is science and it is settled. Hardest phrases to declare? "I don't know" or " I was wrong"

Cool story.
What is “wrong” about the reality of white privilege?
I’ve already specifically addressed every attempt at refuting the existence of white privilege. I’ve made no claims about the extent to which white privilege impedes anybody from doing X or Y, nor have I suggested anything whites need to do to alleviate the extra burdens, so you can get out of your feels and worries about blame or reparations or anything else.

But is it a FACT that being black in America carries with it a variety of extra obstacles that being white helps us to avoid? Yes, absolute FACT.

To deny that reality is small-minded, grievance-and-fear based, self-protecting, learned distrust of different folks, lack of empathy or awareness of the world around us, or some combination of those factors/motivations.

Telling it like it is. Nobody needs it sugarcoated.

 

[trunole1]

All questions that form the crux of the issues.This is why you have to be very careful with the current social science studies out there. This trend hasn't just started but has been going on for the last 20 years or so:

View embedded media

View embedded media

pseudo-science

1. a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.
   "the new pseudoscience of “counseling”"
   

 

[trunole1]

Cool story.
What is “wrong” about the reality of white privilege?
I’ve already specifically addressed every attempt at refuting the existence of white privilege. I’ve made no claims about the extent to which white privilege impedes anybody from doing X or Y, nor have I suggested anything whites need to do to alleviate the extra burdens, so you can get out of your feels and worries about blame or reparations or anything else.

But is it a FACT that being black in America carries with it a variety of extra obstacles that being white helps us to avoid? Yes, absolute FACT.

To deny that reality is small-minded, grievance-and-fear based, self-protecting, learned distrust of different folks, lack of empathy or awareness of the world around us, or some combination of those factors/motivations.

Telling it like it is. Nobody needs it sugarcoated.

You are entitled to believe your reality. Are you AA? JMO but your opinion is not absolute fact. All races face obstacles and privileges. Everyone has to deal with what their life presents to them. Life ain't fair.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

Sounds truly gut wrenching, tragic. Somebody should definitely start up a charity for aggrieved white dudes. Maybe the Snowflake Fund or something like that.
(violins in background)

Yeah, I figured I would get a smart ass response from somebody.

 

[NoleSince1961]

You are entitled to believe your reality. Are you AA? JMO but your opinion is not absolute fact. All races face obstacles and privileges. Everyone has to deal with what their life presents to them. Life ain't fair.

I won the birth lottery and am a white American male. I do wish we had more AA members on these boards, but far too many of them have left and/or chosen not to participate or to reduce their participation, and the reasons some of them have shared with me by DM are unfortunate but understandable.

I'm not aware of anybody in any string suggesting that all races don't face some obstacles and privileges. Nor anybody disputing the simplistic platitudes that Everyone has to deal with what their life presents to them, and Life ain't fair.

Assuming you are white, think about all your everyday experiences since childhood (how others have treated you in stores, how police have treated you if you've ever had those encounters, how people interact with you or don't out and about, the care you've received from doctors, hospitals, etc.), everything you have accomplished academically and professionally, plus the things you wanted to accomplish but fell short, or perhaps did or did not even consider based on whatever limitations and hurdles you anticipated facing... do you honestly believe that all of that (netting the positives against the negatives) would have been just as difficult or more or less difficult if you had black skin? (And I won't even get into the generational wealth aspect, since that pushes too many people's buttons.)

 

[noletaire]

Please just keep repetitively quoting your own posts in that B10 Makes No Sense thread until somebody throws you a Like or two. Your absolute pleading desperation for anybody to validate your existence and give you some kind of achievement badge is super entertaining. Thank you.

More than a bit peculiar. You meltdown with a Tolstoy-length responses calling me a "stalker", "Hannibal Lector", and tell me to ignore your posts but then you continue to reply to my posts that I send to other people and search my posts on other threads. LMFAO. Face it: deep down you love Noletaire.
I just want a "like" from you. That would be my life's crowning achievement.

Watching your premises get completely dismantled and worked over by scores of posters time and time again provides a level of contribution to this board that is simply unparalleled. I'm humbly grateful for your service to this website.
Your old friend
Noletaire

already warn you about stalking me from thread to thread in your super obsessive and persistently creepy manner? Maybe not, but feel free to ignore my posts rather than to continue with your irrefutably weird stalking thing.
And again, not "Your old friend" in the slightest, just adds to your bizarre Hannibal vibe.

^^^^^Pure comedy.

 

[NoleSince1961]

More than a bit peculiar. You meltdown with a Tolstoy-length responses calling me a "stalker", "Hannibal Lector", and tell me to ignore your posts but then you continue to reply to my posts that I send to other people and search my posts on other threads. LMFAO. Face it: deep down you love Noletaire.
I just want a "like" from you. That would be my life's crowning achievement.

Watching your premises get completely dismantled and worked over by scores of posters time and time again provides a level of contribution to this board that is simply unparalleled. I'm humbly grateful for your service to this website.
Your old friend
Noletaire

^^^^^Pure comedy.

Mazel tov. You finally baited me into responding to one of your many creepy posts, where you do indeed follow me around from thread to thread with your little laughy emojis and "Your old friend" ultraHannibalcreepiness. Not once have you inserted the least bit of actual substance about the matter being discussed. You remain the weirdest of all the weird posters on this site, and that's quite an accomplishment. And yes, it does feel gross even to enter your world with this reply. I have no doubt you feel proud and tingly.

 

[seminoleed]

You could have just said "yes, white privilege exists." It is the more succinct version of this post.

LOL. You're not exactly the height of brevity at times, you know?

 

[NoleSince1961]

WTF................it was an example of what is out there to find. I don't have the time nor inclination to provide examples of studies to counter every thing you post. Some of the stuff you post are pretty good and do represent a majority opinion. Others not so much. And even it I did, it wouldn't lead to a productive discussion that you would participate in. You lecture, belittle others and their ideas and refuse to even speak on others ideas or studies. Few on here are in so many noxious post battles as you are. Seems I have come under the gun of late.............for suggesting that you have cherry picked studies that reinforce your beliefs and pretending that is the last word; science has ended and you know THE TRUTH.

I got news for you, science has not ended and your beliefs are not THE TRUTH that can't be argued against.

By the way, if you did read the write up on the meta look at the studies on bias in police shootings, how did that inform your thoughts on it? What did you take from it? Change your thinking at all?

WTF is right. In response to your pretty blatantly hypocritical lecture...

1) Feel free to actually address the studies that I took the time to find, read, vet for credibility/methodology and post.
You didn't just fail to "counter every thing" I posted... you failed to counter ANY of it, merely throwing out personal insults and condescending blather (which you have no problem ascribing to me, but curiously do not see in your own mirror.)

Here's a newsflash: despite your excuse that you don't have the time to read the material I posted, your time is no more valuable than mine, so if you want a productive conversation, actually address the substance of my post rather than to weakly claim that it wouldn't be worth it. Especially if you're gonna' accuse me of "cherry picking" and then throw aspersions at me for having the audacity not to comment on your one citation.

FWIW, I did read the discussion of race and lethal police force that you posted. Lots of interesting nuggets in there, many of which I agree with about the need for better data and more nuanced analyses, but absolutely nothing at all that refutes the existence of white privilege. (Hopefully you understand that white privilege is about a whole lot more than lethal police force.) In fact, the author even underscored several times that he was not disputing the existence of racial bias nor commenting on non-lethal arrests or any other aspect of policing. How you think that discredits my post or means I "cherry picked" anything is baffling.

2) Since you chose to go for the "cherry picker" line of argument... Cherry pickers tend to choose sources that are heavily biased in one direction or another and/or that fail to consistently adhere to high factuality standards.

Let's look at the one citation you chose to post...
It comes from the Manhattan Institute, which the impartial Media Bias Fact Check service describes as pretty far to the Right (not just moderately right) and Mixed Factuality.
MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY -- https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/manhattan-institute-for-policy-research/

In comparison, I was careful NOT to choose any sources that skewed far in either direction politically nor that fell short in Factuality rankings:
My citation sources:
1) Nature - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/nature/ - Bias = Pro-Science, minimal bias, Factuality = Very High, MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

2) Harvard Business School Working Knowledge - not rated by MBFC, but no reason to suspect HBS is a questionable source regarding research on the call-back impact of "whitened" resumes

3) SocSciMed/ScienceDirect - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sciencedirect/ - Bias = Pro-Science, Factuality = High, MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

4) New England Journal of Medicine - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-england-journal-of-medicine-nejm/ - Bias = Pro-Science, Factuality = Very High, MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

5) U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development | Office of Policy Development and Research - not rated by MBFC, but no reason to suspect HUD is a questionable source of housing and rental data and research

6) Reuters - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/reuters/ - Bias = Least Biased, Factuality = Very High, MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

In summary, please review the breadth of sources, and the bias and factuality ratings of my 6 sources vs your 1, and get back to me with another lecture about "cherry picking".

3) Yes, you have indeed seen me involved in lots of "post battles", OMG, how egregious!... perhaps you prefer an echo chamber of right-wing white voices all minimizing or dismissing the AA experience?

I wonder if those "post battles" you see me involved in might be related in any way to the fact that I'm one of the very few left-of-center posters still on here willing to engage, and that the AA voices that we'd really benefit from hearing from have mostly departed or stopped participating on these boards.

Here are some of the reasons that several AA subscribers have shared with me by DM, verbatim. I'm not divulging usernames since they asked me not to:

-- In response to an article I asked them if I should post in the locked FAMU thread regarding unique challenges that HBCU's face:
"Posting that article will unfortunately do no good when that mob is on the prowl. It's disgusting what a section of this base has become."
-- and another weighed in with "Unfortunately any POV differing with 95% of those hard baked perspectives has very little chance of penetrating."

And when I empathized with them about many of the dismissive or otherwise offensive messages they routinely see on these boards, expressed my regrets about the decline in AA participation and encouraged them to speak up more, I got these responses:

"Thank you for being you. The world could use more like you especially nowadays. And I have pushed back many times and I have been banned more times than I can count lol"
and from another AA member:
"You're not wrong, I personally know a few that said Eff-It with the prevailing mentality. As a result, my method of operation is to just get in/get out as quickly as possible (with regard to being informed about Noles activity). I love Seminole Sports and Institutions too much to walk away, but my desire to build community is virtually non-existent because I don't want to encounter "those folks". I'm a graduate of FSU, so is my wife. Our 3 kids are also graduates. Once upon a time I was also very active in positions of leadership throughout several university organizations...But no longer. This issue (in addition to one or two other's) is why I now prefer to ENJOY MY NOLES at a distance."

Maybe you and others who want to dispute the existence of white privilege would prefer if I don't call it like it is, or like I or quieter/left-the-premises AA voices see it. The right-wing voices certainly don't hesitate to blurt out whatever they want, and are encouraged to do so by the peanut gallery, but instead I guess I should be super careful not to offend anybody's delicate sensibilities. Let's be sure to celebrate everybody's expression of their "equally valid" opinions (lol), no matter how offensive and how dangerous. Maybe take a few minutes to read up on the power of mob mentality if you'd like to understand the very real risks for minorities of majority voices being reinforced and encouraged and unchallenged regarding matters of inequity.

If I'm more sensitive, as the son and grandson of Holocaust survivors (many of my grandparents' families were not so lucky), to the dangers of politely deferring to the majority than the average American Joe is, so be it. I will not be shutting up. Maybe exiting the premises if it just gets too depressing and discouraging, as it has for many of our AA fellow Noles, but so far my FSU passion wins out.

4) Please show me any credible data that refutes the basic existence of white privilege (as opposed to the extent of it or what to do about it), and not just in one aspect of life but related to the many daily additional obstacles and burdens that non-whites in America face.

Since nobody has done that, nor can anyone do that, I'll stick to my insistence that white privilege in America is indeed FACT. Just like 1 + 1 = 2 in Base 10 math, and the earth is not flat, no matter how many other "equally valid" opinions there might be. Also irrelevant to the white privilege conversation is how much anybody resents Fauci (at least one of your fellow white privilege deniers seems to think Fauci is relevant here) or how much modern day populists like to discredit any other scientists or academics.

Have an awesome evening.

 

[F4Gary]

Have an awesome evening

 

[trunole1]

You could have just said "yes, white privilege exists." It is the more succinct version of this post.

TRUE but it also exists for all ethnicities etc etc

 

[Red Hills Nole]

It seems like some people are still suffering some PTSD over sweet willie's termination. LMFAO. I'm sure that music comforted those poor souls when willie was shown the door. It must be terrible to live with such angst. I wish I could do something to help them.

Excuse me but when in any space other than your head did this this thread come to be about Willie Taggart's dismissial? Wow, and I thought I had issues.

 

[Bartdog]

Want me summat Indian privilege. 🤡

 

[GeddyLee09]

Cool story.
What is “wrong” about the reality of white privilege?
I’ve already specifically addressed every attempt at refuting the existence of white privilege. I’ve made no claims about the extent to which white privilege impedes anybody from doing X or Y, nor have I suggested anything whites need to do to alleviate the extra burdens, so you can get out of your feels and worries about blame or reparations or anything else.

But is it a FACT that being black in America carries with it a variety of extra obstacles that being white helps us to avoid? Yes, absolute FACT.

To deny that reality is small-minded, grievance-and-fear based, self-protecting, learned distrust of different folks, lack of empathy or awareness of the world around us, or some combination of those factors/motivations.

Telling it like it is. Nobody needs it sugarcoated.

Look, people don't agree with you. That's all. Your opinion isn't fact no matter how many times you say it, post cherry picked studies that match your opinion, attempt to bully other posters or your followers like your posts.

People don't agree with you. That's all it is, its not personal. People don't agree because there are those that have not been a recipient of this so called privilege. But you use words like assume, guess and think then state your opinion is fact and others are "minority opinion".

This is the equivalent of a non military/veteran telling a wounded warrior about PTSD and its effects. No amount of study or documents would qualify that person to speak about it.

We disagree on this and its ok.

 

[GeddyLee09]

WTF is right. In response to your pretty blatantly hypocritical lecture...

1) Feel free to actually address the studies that I took the time to find, read, vet for credibility/methodology and post.
You didn't just fail to "counter every thing" I posted... you failed to counter ANY of it, merely throwing out personal insults and condescending blather (which you have no problem ascribing to me, but curiously do not see in your own mirror.)

Here's a newsflash: despite your excuse that you don't have the time to read the material I posted, your time is no more valuable than mine, so if you want a productive conversation, actually address the substance of my post rather than to weakly claim that it wouldn't be worth it. Especially if you're gonna' accuse me of "cherry picking" and then throw aspersions at me for having the audacity not to comment on your one citation.

FWIW, I did read the discussion of race and lethal police force that you posted. Lots of interesting nuggets in there, many of which I agree with about the need for better data and more nuanced analyses, but absolutely nothing at all that refutes the existence of white privilege. (Hopefully you understand that white privilege is about a whole lot more than lethal police force.) In fact, the author even underscored several times that he was not disputing the existence of racial bias nor commenting on non-lethal arrests or any other aspect of policing. How you think that discredits my post or means I "cherry picked" anything is baffling.

2) Since you chose to go for the "cherry picker" line of argument... Cherry pickers tend to choose sources that are heavily biased in one direction or another and/or that fail to consistently adhere to high factuality standards.

Let's look at the one citation you chose to post...
It comes from the Manhattan Institute, which the impartial Media Bias Fact Check service describes as pretty far to the Right (not just moderately right) and Mixed Factuality.
MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY -- https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/manhattan-institute-for-policy-research/

In comparison, I was careful NOT to choose any sources that skewed far in either direction politically nor that fell short in Factuality rankings:
My citation sources:
1) Nature - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/nature/ - Bias = Pro-Science, minimal bias, Factuality = Very High, MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

2) Harvard Business School Working Knowledge - not rated by MBFC, but no reason to suspect HBS is a questionable source regarding research on the call-back impact of "whitened" resumes

3) SocSciMed/ScienceDirect - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sciencedirect/ - Bias = Pro-Science, Factuality = High, MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

4) New England Journal of Medicine - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-england-journal-of-medicine-nejm/ - Bias = Pro-Science, Factuality = Very High, MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

5) U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development | Office of Policy Development and Research - not rated by MBFC, but no reason to suspect HUD is a questionable source of housing and rental data and research

6) Reuters - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/reuters/ - Bias = Least Biased, Factuality = Very High, MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

In summary, please review the breadth of sources, and the bias and factuality ratings of my 6 sources vs your 1, and get back to me with another lecture about "cherry picking".

3) Yes, you have indeed seen me involved in lots of "post battles", OMG, how egregious!... perhaps you prefer an echo chamber of right-wing white voices all minimizing or dismissing the AA experience?

I wonder if those "post battles" you see me involved in might be related in any way to the fact that I'm one of the very few left-of-center posters still on here willing to engage, and that the AA voices that we'd really benefit from hearing from have mostly departed or stopped participating on these boards.

Here are some of the reasons that several AA subscribers have shared with me by DM, verbatim. I'm not divulging usernames since they asked me not to:

-- In response to an article I asked them if I should post in the locked FAMU thread regarding unique challenges that HBCU's face:
"Posting that article will unfortunately do no good when that mob is on the prowl. It's disgusting what a section of this base has become."
-- and another weighed in with "Unfortunately any POV differing with 95% of those hard baked perspectives has very little chance of penetrating."

And when I empathized with them about many of the dismissive or otherwise offensive messages they routinely see on these boards, expressed my regrets about the decline in AA participation and encouraged them to speak up more, I got these responses:

"Thank you for being you. The world could use more like you especially nowadays. And I have pushed back many times and I have been banned more times than I can count lol"
and from another AA member:
"You're not wrong, I personally know a few that said Eff-It with the prevailing mentality. As a result, my method of operation is to just get in/get out as quickly as possible (with regard to being informed about Noles activity). I love Seminole Sports and Institutions too much to walk away, but my desire to build community is virtually non-existent because I don't want to encounter "those folks". I'm a graduate of FSU, so is my wife. Our 3 kids are also graduates. Once upon a time I was also very active in positions of leadership throughout several university organizations...But no longer. This issue (in addition to one or two other's) is why I now prefer to ENJOY MY NOLES at a distance."

Maybe you and others who want to dispute the existence of white privilege would prefer if I don't call it like it is, or like I or quieter/left-the-premises AA voices see it. The right-wing voices certainly don't hesitate to blurt out whatever they want, and are encouraged to do so by the peanut gallery, but instead I guess I should be super careful not to offend anybody's delicate sensibilities. Let's be sure to celebrate everybody's expression of their "equally valid" opinions (lol), no matter how offensive and how dangerous. Maybe take a few minutes to read up on the power of mob mentality if you'd like to understand the very real risks for minorities of majority voices being reinforced and encouraged and unchallenged regarding matters of inequity.

If I'm more sensitive, as the son and grandson of Holocaust survivors (many of my grandparents' families were not so lucky), to the dangers of politely deferring to the majority than the average American Joe is, so be it. I will not be shutting up. Maybe exiting the premises if it just gets too depressing and discouraging, as it has for many of our AA fellow Noles, but so far my FSU passion wins out.

4) Please show me any credible data that refutes the basic existence of white privilege (as opposed to the extent of it or what to do about it), and not just in one aspect of life but related to the many daily additional obstacles and burdens that non-whites in America face.

Since nobody has done that, nor can anyone do that, I'll stick to my insistence that white privilege in America is indeed FACT. Just like 1 + 1 = 2 in Base 10 math, and the earth is not flat, no matter how many other "equally valid" opinions there might be. Also irrelevant to the white privilege conversation is how much anybody resents Fauci (at least one of your fellow white privilege deniers seems to think Fauci is relevant here) or how much modern day populists like to discredit any other scientists or academics.

Have an awesome evening.

And still not fact.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Mazel tov. You finally baited me into responding to one of your many creepy posts, where you do indeed follow me around from thread to thread with your little laughy emojis and "Your old friend" ultraHannibalcreepiness. Not once have you inserted the least bit of actual substance about the matter being discussed. You remain the weirdest of all the weird posters on this site, and that's quite an accomplishment. And yes, it does feel gross even to enter your world with this reply. I have no doubt you feel proud and tingly.

As weird as 777?

 

[GeddyLee09]

Want me summat Indian privilege. 🤡

So where is the articles from White Americans about Indian or Japanese American privilege? There should be outrage that the white privilege card didn't get all white people on the top of the income list.

 

[fsufool]

So where is the articles from White Americans about Indian or Japanese American privilege? There should be outrage that the white privilege card didn't get all white people on the top of the income list.

Most of these folks entered American society 1 or 2 generations ago. It's a great example of the potential of our system enjoys. But, it does not compare to the way most Blacks entered our system. Gotta love the way certain immigrants leverage our system into a better life..............the most aggressive strivers from those countries end up here. (plus England, Canada and Australia) As I mentioned many times the key for us with AF. Americans is to continue to break down poverty inducing systems. (87% to 17% in 80 years) Poverty continues to be the main road block to mainstream success at levels similar to the rest of society.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Look, people don't agree with you. That's all. Your opinion isn't fact no matter how many times you say it, post cherry picked studies that match your opinion, attempt to bully other posters or your followers like your posts.

People don't agree with you. That's all it is, its not personal. People don't agree because there are those that have not been a recipient of this so called privilege. But you use words like assume, guess and think then state your opinion is fact and others are "minority opinion".

This is the equivalent of a non military/veteran telling a wounded warrior about PTSD and its effects. No amount of study or documents would qualify that person to speak about it.

We disagree on this and its ok.

Cool.
Is it fact or mere opinion that the earth is a spheroid shape rather than flat, that it tends to be more difficult for women than for men to reach the executive ranks in the US construction industry, and that daily life presents more obstacles, on average, for quadriplegics in America than for those with 4 fully functioning limbs?

 

[GeddyLee09]

Cool.
Is it fact or mere opinion that the earth is a spheroid shape rather than flat, that it tends to be more difficult for women than for men to reach the executive ranks in the US construction industry, and that daily life presents more obstacles, on average, for quadriplegics in America than for those with 4 fully functioning limbs?

The Earth is round (or somewhat round) that can be seen. Probably is more difficult for women in the construction industry as its mainly men. And yes quadriplegics obviously would have it more difficult than those with 4 limbs.

I'm sure, no I know there are those that can and would argue those opinions but that's how things go.

Not sure what that has to do with your opinion on the concept of white privilege which is nothing like the Earth being round or 1+1=2.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Most of these folks entered American society 1 or 2 generations ago. It's a great example of the potential of our system enjoys. But, it does not compare to the way most Blacks entered our system. Gotta love the way certain immigrants leverage our system into a better life..............the most aggressive strivers from those countries end up here. (plus England, Canada and Australia) As I mentioned many times the key for us with AF. Americans is to continue to break down poverty inducing systems. (87% to 17% in 80 years) Poverty continues to be the main road block to mainstream success at levels similar to the rest of society.

There are lots of obstacles to breaking that cycle. Many of which are not fun to discuss for everyone. The issue is truly economics but it shows that the opportunity is there for everyone. I entered system at a very low level which is why I disagree with the assertions that everything is easier or given. Its not, you have to take the path in front of you or forge a new one. I was poor and looked down on for being poor. I wed into a mixed marriage and was looked down on for that but I never stopped pushing. If you want privileges you earn them.

 

[NoleSince1961]

The Earth is round (or somewhat round) that can be seen. Probably is more difficult for women in the construction industry as its mainly men. And yes quadriplegics obviously would have it more difficult than those with 4 limbs.

I'm sure, no I know there are those that can and would argue those opinions but that's how things go.

Not sure what that has to do with your opinion on the concept of white privilege which is nothing like the Earth being round or 1+1=2.

Ok, good to know you consider all 3 of those absolute truths to be “opinions”.

Of course, you’ll agree that you shouldn’t speak with any certainty about any of it, according to your own stated rules about the qualifications required for weighing in on stuff with any degree of certainty, since you’re not an astronaut who has orbited the earth, you’re not a woman nor a quadriplegic. Those are the only folks who can call these examples true or false without issuing lots of “just my opinion” caveats, right?

So yeh, if you prefer the semantics of opinion vs fact, “white privilege” can be seen (by those not so threatened by acknowledging it that they look away) and is so obvious that whether it’s called opinion or fact, it remains true.

Glad we could clear that up.
Enjoy your day.

 

[NoleSince1961]

There are lots of obstacles to breaking that cycle. Many of which are not fun to discuss for everyone. The issue is truly economics but it shows that the opportunity is there for everyone. I entered system at a very low level which is why I disagree with the assertions that everything is easier or given. It’s not, you have to take the path in front of you or forge a new one. I was poor and looked down on for being poor. I wed into a mixed marriage and was looked down on for that but I never stopped pushing. If you want privileges you earn them.

Or maybe you’re still confused?
Where has anybody in any of these discussions said that “everything is easier or given”?
Look up strawman fallacy.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Ok, good to know you consider all 3 of those absolute truths to be “opinions”.

Of course, you’ll agree that you shouldn’t speak with any certainty about any of it, according to your own stated rules about the qualifications required for weighing in on stuff with any degree of certainty, since you’re not an astronaut who has orbited the earth, you’re not a woman nor a quadriplegic. Those are the only folks who can call these examples true or false without issuing lots of “just my opinion” caveats, right?

So yeh, if you prefer the semantics of opinion vs fact, “white privilege” can be seen (by those not so threatened by acknowledging it that they look away) and is so obvious that whether it’s called opinion or fact, it remains true.

Glad we could clear that up.
Enjoy your day.

Sorry Brain or Fred or 1961 or whichever you want to go by. Nice work at twisting words around to try and prove a point. How very smart of you. I'm sure Belem will be impressed. Clearly you have an issue differentiating fact, fiction and opinion.

First you don't have to be an astronaut to tell the Earth is spherical, you can see it when you fly high enough so that's a fact. Second, women in construction scenario makes sense so my opinion would be that could hold true but that's my opinion. Quadriplegics would naturally have more obstacles than those with 4 limbs. 4 is better than none. That's math. However, some will tell you they don't. Like many I know who lost limbs to IED's. So opinion.

See the difference? You on the other hand like to state an opinion with supporting data then label it as fact.

Here's a question. Was it fact that Willie Taggart was fired because of race and all his detractors didn't like him because they were racist or was it because he couldn't coach? I recall you having some strong opinions about that.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Or maybe you’re still confused?
Where has anybody in any of these discussions said that “everything is easier or given”?
Look up strawman fallacy.

Am I? Please enlighten me. Maybe you'll change my mind. Same argument different subject. This is like the Wubonic Plague threads all over again.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Sorry Brain or Fred or 1961 or whichever you want to go by. Nice work at twisting words around to try and prove a point. How very smart of you. I'm sure Belem will be impressed. Clearly you have an issue differentiating fact, fiction and opinion.

First you don't have to be an astronaut to tell the Earth is spherical, you can see it when you fly high enough so that's a fact. Second, women in construction scenario makes sense so my opinion would be that could hold true but that's my opinion. Quadriplegics would naturally have more obstacles than those with 4 limbs. 4 is better than none. That's math. However, some will tell you they don't. Like many I know who lost limbs to IED's. So opinion.

See the difference? You on the other hand like to state an opinion with supporting data then label it as fact.

Here's a question. Was it fact that Willie Taggart was fired because of race and all his detractors didn't like him because they were racist or was it because he couldn't coach? I recall you having some strong opinions about that.

Irrelevant to this thread, opinion vs fact included, and as I’ve clearly stated, I was relieved for all parties involved when FSU parted ways with Coach Taggart, and never have I said anything even approaching your inanity that “all his detractors didn’t like him because they were racist”. God that’s weak.
You do love that strawman fallacy thing though, don’t you.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Am I? Please enlighten me. Maybe you'll change my mind. Same argument different subject. This is like the Wubonic Plague threads all over again.

Here, I’ll help you out as simply as possible.
You claim that someone or maybe multiple people have made assertions that white privilege means “everything is easier or given”?
Please point out specifically where anybody said that.
You’re either confused or purposely misquoting people. Which is it?

 

[noletaire]

I said anything even approaching your inanity that “all his detractors didn’t like him because they were racist”.

Yeah... sure you didn't.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Here, I’ll help you out as simply as possible.
You claim that someone or maybe multiple people have made assertions that white privilege means “everything is easier or given”?
Please point out specifically where anybody said that.
You’re either confused or purposely misquoting people. Which is it?

Lets just leave things here. I can have more meaningful conversations elsewhere. Assertion was the word used and not directed at any one person. In fact I wasnt even talking to you in that response. Anyway unless you have a comment about football we can end things here.

Guten Tag!

 

[NoleSince1961]

Yeah... sure you didn't.

Feel free to prove me wrong, Hannibal.
You can’t.

 

[BelemNole]

Here, I’ll help you out as simply as possible.
You claim that someone or maybe multiple people have made assertions that white privilege means “everything is easier or given”?
Please point out specifically where anybody said that.
You’re either confused or purposely misquoting people. Which is it?

I'm still waiting for him to quote me to support his claim. He decided to take personal shots at you instead.

 

[GeddyLee09]

I'm still waiting for him to quote me to support his claim. He decided to take personal shots at you instead.

Yes you are correct. You said there are all types of privilege and you did state that the guy commented about them not doing anything wrong. If I assumed wrong and you weren't illustrating white privilege my apologies. So what was the point of the video? I watched it and didn't see the point. Anything else your waiting for?

 

[BelemNole]

Yes you are correct. You said there are all types of privilege and you did state that the guy commented about them not doing anything wrong. If I assumed wrong and you weren't illustrating white privilege my apologies. So what was the point of the video? I watched it and didn't see the point. Anything else your waiting for?

The point of the video was that privilege isn't something you do, or only limited to color. It just means that based on an accident of birth you start with an advantage others don't. It doesn't mean that you had an easy life or that your accomplishments weren't real. It simply acknowledges that others had a disadvantage that you did not.
The fact that so many people can't do this is ridiculous.

 

[GeddyLee09]

The point of the video was that privilege isn't something you do, or only limited to color. It just means that based on an accident of birth you start with an advantage others don't. It doesn't mean that you had an easy life or that your accomplishments weren't real. It simply acknowledges that others had a disadvantage that you did not.
The fact that so many people can't do this is ridiculous.

Honestly I get what your saying. But, I don't see it the same way. I don't see it in an absolute sense. Do some people have an advantage? Sure. Do some have a disadvantage? Sure. Its not an either or argument. Maybe so many cant acknowledge that because they don't feel that way?

I think there are many issues from economic, cultural and social issues even government programs and intervention that affect how people live and get ahead in life and to an extent why they don't. Labeling it privilege isn't the way to go in my opinion.

 

[NoleSince1961]

The point of the video was that privilege isn't something you do, or only limited to color. It just means that based on an accident of birth you start with an advantage others don't. It doesn't mean that you had an easy life or that your accomplishments weren't real. It simply acknowledges that others had a disadvantage that you did not.
The fact that so many people can't do this is ridiculous.

Despite my heartburn with some aspects of that video, it’s truly mind boggling that so many grown adults are so paralyzed by fear or resentment over what it might suggest or what might happen next if they dare to acknowledge that white privilege exists that they will do and say absolutely whatever they think is necessary to deflect, distort, dodge, project, shoot the messenger, etc.
It’s really no wonder why so many of this site’s AA members have said adios.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Honestly I get what you’re saying. But, I don't see it the same way. I don't see it in an absolute sense. Do some people have an advantage? Sure. Do some have a disadvantage? Sure. Is that limited to color of skin? No. There are whites that have no advantage and other skin colors that do have an advantage. It’s not an either or argument. Maybe so many cant acknowledge that because they don't feel that way?

Why do you keep arguing against all or nothing stances that nobody has asserted?
It’s truly bizarre.

 

[BelemNole]

Honestly I get what your saying. But, I don't see it the same way. I don't see it in an absolute sense. Do some people have an advantage? Sure. Do some have a disadvantage? Sure. Its not an either or argument. Maybe so many cant acknowledge that because they don't feel that way?

I think there are many issues from economic, cultural and social issues even government programs and intervention that affect how people live and get ahead in life and to an extent why they don't. Labeling it privilege isn't the way to go in my opinion.

Soooooo.....you recognize that it exists but you don't like the name?
Ok.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Why do you keep arguing against all or nothing stances that nobody has asserted?
It’s truly bizarre.

The argument is that all white people are born with an advantage that others don't have or that all others have a disadvantage that whites don't. That's the premise of white privilege. I'm not saying this is everyone's opinion but that's the general premise of the concept. I wont agree with it so stop trying.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Soooooo.....you recognize that it exists but you don't like the name?
Ok.

It doesn't need a name its called life. That's how things work. Some are born rich some are not. There has always been people with an advantage and disadvantage and there always will be. Naming it wont fix it. Especially naming it white privilege.