There are no long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines

[Deerfuel2]

My problem is that the people that are susceptible to misinformation when they proven wrong just move on to the next one and so on and so on. Do you remember the port in the middle east that suffered a catastrophic explosion. It was not long before people were bringing in videos and sharing them that showed a missile hitting the port. I did some research because I suspected it was bogus and it turned out that someone had inserted a cartoon missile into the video. Yet I guarantee that there are still people today that believe that video even though when you slow it down it is a missile that you would see in a Bugz Bunny cartoon.

You obviously spend a lot more time immersed in the media's offerings than I do. I try not to consume things that are trying to get an emotional reaction from me. Sometimes that is hard to do. I guess Warchant is my guilty pleasure.
I would rather be on the boat

 

[goldmom]

The notion that Covid deaths are being massively over counted has been thoroughly disproven. The excess death statistic exceeds the numbers attributed to Covid. Evidence to the contrary is only supported by anecdotal evidence which is being collated and distributed to those people who are susceptible to misinformation.

Distributed to those people who are susceptible to misinformation-? - sounds like code for “we’re only telling dummies fake stuff”.
Interesting. And they determine the susceptible folks how?

 

[chumleynole]

You obviously spend a lot more time immersed in the media's offerings than I do. I try not to consume things that are trying to get an emotional reaction from me. Sometimes that is hard to do. I guess Warchant is my guilty pleasure.
I would rather be on the boat

I just have very strong concerns about the effect of misinformation on the welfare of this country.

 

[chumleynole]

Distributed to those people who are susceptible to misinformation-? - sounds like code for “we’re only telling dummies fake stuff”.
Interesting. And they determine the susceptible folks how?

Was not intended that way. Those that I believe are susceptible are the people who have their minds made up and seek out like minded sites people etc. to reinforce those views and are disinterested in contrary information.

 

[goldmom]

I just have very strong concerns about the effect of misinformation on the welfare of this country.

We all should regardless of our opinions on other matters.
Seek information from several sources and make your own decisions.

 

[goldmom]

Was not intended that way. Those that I believe are susceptible are the people who have their minds made up and seek out like minded sites people etc. to reinforce those views and are disinterested in contrary information.

Understand. 😉 It’s the old saying “My mind’s made up, so don’t confuse me with the facts “.

 

[Dhersh]

cousin died after 2nd vacc....go take a big leap off a cliff!!!....and as the pro choice people say..dont tell me what to do with my body!!!....

Way to keep things civil... Go away

 

[GeddyLee09]

I just have very strong concerns about the effect of misinformation on the welfare of this country.

Social media breeds misinformation. It just happens that mainstream media figured out that it could generate clicks as well. Its funny to read the same article from different sources and see the exact facts interpreted in different ways mainly based on the political leanings of the outlet. Theres always three sides to every story.

 

[NoleSince1961]

People have opinions on the matter, some out of first hand experience. On here you have folks that have had close friends and family members impacted and you have those that haven't been impacted at all. Some work in the health care industry or are first responders and all have different experiences. Doesn't make one more or less valid than the other.

Watching all this is like the WWE. The media managed to use that model and categorize everyone into one side or another good and bad if you will. If your for masks, mandates, shots and lockdowns your the good if your against any of that or not for it your the bad guy. They managed to inject politics into the scenario because they had a ready made vessel already there so it was easy.

People don’t like hearing this but the whole “doesn’t make one more or less valid than the other” mantra simply doesn’t fly when it comes to high-stakes, complex subjects like pandemics or climate change or any other science-based matter of import.

During Covid, the opinions of medical research professionals and epidemiologists, front-line doctors and nurses, etc are much better-informed than those of joe blow 7-11 clerk. That 7-11 clerk might be the most awesome guy or lady in town and loved by all, and still, absent a medical background, his/her opinions about the efficacy of Covid mitigation protocols shouldn’t and don’t carry the same weight as those of legit medical professionals.

The anti-academia populist pablum of “everybody’s opinion is equally valid” works great for relatively low stakes, more subjective debates like which fast food joint has the best chicken sandwich or which QB should start on Saturday, but not when the topic is a legit pandemic (regardless of the thankfully lower severity of Omicron).

Can and do “experts” disagree and have differing levels of credibility? Obviously. But that’s why it’s important to carefully vet info sources, their actual qualifications, track records, potential biases, etc… and sure seems a wiser choice to me to side with the prevailing take of the majority of experts in that field unless you or I genuinely have the expertise to justify a contrarian take, which is a much higher bar than mere tribalism.

People just don’t like dealing with that level of complexity so it’s easier to just go with whatever your likeminded buddy shared in a meme or your favorite podcast or neighbor’s anecdotes or whatever. We are creatures of comfort and convenience. It takes work to resist that and to treat important matters with the greater effort they deserve.

And empathy for those most directly impacted by a pandemic or other crisis is helpful too.

No high horse involved. Just being real, like it or not. Again, here’s hoping we really are at the end of the Covid awfulness.

Go Noles!

 

[goldmom]

People don’t like hearing this but the whole “doesn’t make one more or less valid than the other” mantra simply doesn’t fly when it comes to high-stakes, complex subjects like pandemics or climate change or any other science-based matter of import.

During Covid, the opinions of medical research professionals and epidemiologists, front-line doctors and nurses, etc are much better-informed than those of joe blow 7-11 clerk. That 7-11 clerk might be the most awesome guy or lady in town and loved by all, and still, absent a medical background, his/her opinions about the efficacy of Covid mitigation protocols shouldn’t and don’t carry the same weight as those of legit medical professionals.

The anti-academia populist pablum of “everybody’s opinion is equally valid” works great for relatively low stakes, more subjective debates like which fast food joint has the best chicken sandwich or which QB should start on Saturday, but not when the topic is a legit pandemic (regardless of the thankfully lower severity of Omicron).

Can and do “experts” disagree and have differing levels of credibility? Obviously. But that’s why it’s important to carefully vet info sources, their actual qualifications, track records, potential biases, etc… and sure seems a wiser choice to me to side with the prevailing take of the majority of experts in that field unless you or I genuinely have the expertise to justify a contrarian take, which is a much higher bar than mere tribalism.

People just don’t like dealing with that level of complexity so it’s easier to just go with whatever your likeminded buddy shared in a meme or your favorite podcast or neighbor’s anecdotes or whatever. We are creatures of comfort and convenience. It takes work to resist that and to treat important matters with the greater effort they deserve.

And empathy for those most directly impacted by a pandemic or other crisis is helpful too.

No high horse involved. Just being real, like it or not. Again, here’s hoping we really are at the end of the Covid awfulness.

Go Noles!

I wonder if the tone of your posts could be hindering the acceptance of your message. Unless of course any one here wishes to step up to the plate and confirm that they in fact rely solely on their local 7-11 clerk.
You have a great day.

 

[Deerfuel2]

I just have very strong concerns about the effect of misinformation on the welfare of this country.

That goes both ways

 

[NoleSince1961]

I wonder if the tone of your posts could be hindering the acceptance of your message. Unless of course any one here wishes to step up to the plate and confirm that they in fact rely solely on their local 7-11 clerk.
You have a great day.

If you could read all that and choose to take offense at “7-11 clerk”, I’m pretty sure you’d take offense at any non-medical professional I could have randomly mentioned there… art teacher, chef, plumber, race car driver, pick what doesn’t offend you. You don’t like the messenger. That’s fine and clearly your choice.
Go Noles!

 

[goldmom]

If you could read all that and choose to take offense at “7-11 clerk”, I’m pretty sure you’d take offense at any non-medical professional I could have randomly mentioned there… art teacher, chef, plumber, race car driver, pick what doesn’t offend you. You don’t like the messenger. That’s fine and clearly your choice.
Go Noles!

I’m a 100% Pro vaxxer but that doesn’t mean I support someone who tries to talk down to anyone with a different viewpoint, unless I felt a need to impersonate an elitist trying to communicate with a bunch of rubes.
Go Noles!

 

[NoleSince1961]

Btw, I assume the “everybody’s opinion is equally valid” folks don’t apply that same expertise-doesn’t-matter mantra when choosing medical care for their own family if/when faced with a serious illness.
and that’s where the empathy part comes in.
We really shouldn’t need Covid to kill or seriously injure people in our own limited family/friends circles before we take it more seriously (think pre-Omicron, if that’s possible)

 

[NoleSince1961]

I’m a 100% Pro vaxxer but that doesn’t mean I support someone who tries to talk down to anyone with a different viewpoint, unless I felt a need to impersonate an elitist trying to communicate with a bunch of rubes.
Go Noles!

There’s nothing about what I wrote that is “talking down” to anyone. Simply being real, and made that very clear.
An infectious disease doctor’s qualifications regarding Covid insights definitely trump a 7-11 clerk’s, or an electrician’s or a talk show host or whichever non-medical professional you prefer in an example.
If you choose to look for offense and already have a predetermined view of the speaker, you’ll definitely find it… and bingo, you did!

 

[89nole]

Well this was a good thread for quite a while but now its every other LR thread ever.

 

[GeddyLee09]

I wonder if the tone of your posts could be hindering the acceptance of your message. Unless of course any one here wishes to step up to the plate and confirm that they in fact rely solely on their local 7-11 clerk.
You have a great day.

I actually get my info from the Publix checkout line. The clerk is good and there is the national enquirer for news.

 

[GeddyLee09]

People don’t like hearing this but the whole “doesn’t make one more or less valid than the other” mantra simply doesn’t fly when it comes to high-stakes, complex subjects like pandemics or climate change or any other science-based matter of import.

During Covid, the opinions of medical research professionals and epidemiologists, front-line doctors and nurses, etc are much better-informed than those of joe blow 7-11 clerk. That 7-11 clerk might be the most awesome guy or lady in town and loved by all, and still, absent a medical background, his/her opinions about the efficacy of Covid mitigation protocols shouldn’t and don’t carry the same weight as those of legit medical professionals.

The anti-academia populist pablum of “everybody’s opinion is equally valid” works great for relatively low stakes, more subjective debates like which fast food joint has the best chicken sandwich or which QB should start on Saturday, but not when the topic is a legit pandemic (regardless of the thankfully lower severity of Omicron).

Can and do “experts” disagree and have differing levels of credibility? Obviously. But that’s why it’s important to carefully vet info sources, their actual qualifications, track records, potential biases, etc… and sure seems a wiser choice to me to side with the prevailing take of the majority of experts in that field unless you or I genuinely have the expertise to justify a contrarian take, which is a much higher bar than mere tribalism.

People just don’t like dealing with that level of complexity so it’s easier to just go with whatever your likeminded buddy shared in a meme or your favorite podcast or neighbor’s anecdotes or whatever. We are creatures of comfort and convenience. It takes work to resist that and to treat important matters with the greater effort they deserve.

And empathy for those most directly impacted by a pandemic or other crisis is helpful too.

No high horse involved. Just being real, like it or not. Again, here’s hoping we really are at the end of the Covid awfulness.

Go Noles!

You seem to have the market cornered on high stakes, complex subjects. I'm certain no-one else on these boards can match your obvious expertise in high level, complex and high stakes situations. Like you said we all get our information from the 7-11 clerk or some other person. Ill sleep better tonight knowing there's people like you out there keeping the world safe.

 

[GeddyLee09]

There’s nothing about what I wrote that is “talking down” to anyone. Simply being real, and made that very clear.
An infectious disease doctor’s qualifications regarding Covid insights definitely trump a 7-11 clerk’s, or an electrician’s or a talk show host or whichever non-medical professional you prefer in an example.
If you choose to look for offense and already have a predetermined view of the speaker, you’ll definitely find it… and bingo, you did!

Who's been quoting the 7-11 guy? We went over this in another thread right?

 

[goldmom]

Btw, I assume the “everybody’s opinion is equally valid” folks don’t apply that same expertise-doesn’t-matter mantra when choosing medical care for their own family if/when faced with a serious illness.
and that’s where the empathy part comes in.
We really shouldn’t need Covid to kill or seriously injure people in our own limited family/friends circles before we take it more seriously (think pre-Omicron, if that’s possible)

It’s not so much that everyone has an opinion that’s “valid”; it’s the subtle ridicule that those who have a different viewpoint are ignorant and should not be heard. It also implies that the rest of us aren’t intelligent enough or discerning enough to separate the “wheat from the chaff”. And then it becomes borderline cancel culture.
You’re not going to win hearts and minds of some people no matter what, but the best you can do is maintain a positive approach and continue to state the facts as you understand them. It forces people to think and to defend their position on the subject.

 

[roy2xeagle]

Way to keep things civil... Go away

You first!!!

 

[goldmom]

There’s nothing about what I wrote that is “talking down” to anyone. Simply being real, and made that very clear.
An infectious disease doctor’s qualifications regarding Covid insights definitely trump a 7-11 clerk’s, or an electrician’s or a talk show host or whichever non-medical professional you prefer in an example.
If you choose to look for offense and already have a predetermined view of the speaker, you’ll definitely find it… and bingo, you did!

I never choose to look to be offended. What a waste of my time and energy.
I already spend a good bit of time keeping up with the evolving developments related to the virus. ☺️

 

[MagNoleA]

It’s not so much that everyone has an opinion that’s “valid”; it’s the subtle ridicule that those who have a different viewpoint are ignorant and should not be heard. It also implies that the rest of us aren’t intelligent enough or discerning enough to separate the “wheat from the chaff”. And then it becomes borderline cancel culture.
You’re not going to win hearts and minds of some people no matter what, but the best you can do is maintain a positive approach and continue to state the facts as you understand them. It forces people to think and to defend their position on the subject.

Thankfully, I've never had a bad case of the chaff.

 

[MagNoleA]

I never choose to look to be offended. What a waste of my time and energy.
I already spend a good bit of time keeping up with the evolving developments related to the virus. ☺️

All this talk of evolving reminds me of my favorite soap opera, "As the Stomach Turns...."

 

[MagNoleA]

I’m a 100% Pro vaxxer but that doesn’t mean I support someone who tries to talk down to anyone with a different viewpoint, unless I felt a need to impersonate an elitist trying to communicate with a bunch of rubes.
Go Noles!

What she said! I've never tried to impersonate an elitist. Where is Rich Little when you need him?

 

[MagNoleA]

I wonder if the tone of your posts could be hindering the acceptance of your message. Unless of course any one here wishes to step up to the plate and confirm that they in fact rely solely on their local 7-11 clerk.
You have a great day.

Give him the binn-ness GoldMom!

"Take caution with your tone."
Col. Jessup
A Few Good Men

 

[MagNoleA]

Okay. I got a Regeneron. My daughter got one. My sister got one.
Daughter had breakthrough Delta, she was vaxxed. I was exposed to her and lost taste and smell and so did my sister. We were vaxxed as well. Within 36 hours we were all recovering.
Omicron is now dominant but Delta is not entirely gone.
That treatment kept us out of the hospital. $2100 is cheap compared to a hospital stay.

I would hate the ability to taste and smell. I would be beside myself in anguish and frustration.

 

[fsufool]

There’s nothing about what I wrote that is “talking down” to anyone. Simply being real, and made that very clear.
An infectious disease doctor’s qualifications regarding Covid insights definitely trump a 7-11 clerk’s, or an electrician’s or a talk show host or whichever non-medical professional you prefer in an example.
If you choose to look for offense and already have a predetermined view of the speaker, you’ll definitely find it… and bingo, you did!

There is a long history of scholarship in the "History of Science" and "Sociology of Medicine" to draw from that would argue that:
A. Politics is inherent in both science and medicine;
B. Scientist and Medical Doctors get stuck in paradigms finding it very difficult to think outside of them;
C. Money infuses both science and medicine creating bias;
D. Physicians and scientist are hardly a monolith in their opinions;
E. Medicine isn't anywhere near as cut and dry as many make it out as;
F. Diagnosis and treatment is as much an art form as science; and
G. Medicine doesn't always "follow the science."

I've told this story on here before, but is worthwhile to revisit it. Last summer my 19 year old son, who was in perfect health, and had just come home from Utah, went into septic shock. In the morning he woke up with an enlarged lymph node on the front of his thigh, was afebrile, in some pain, but otherwise was feeling fine. By 11:00PM he was in septic shock, with a blood pressure of 63 over 32 and a lactic acid of 15 (meaning a life threatening infection) and was dehydrated. The first two diagnosis were ruled out with Cat scan and MRI. That left an infection of unknown origin. He was given over 75 tests with no positive tests to figure out what caused the infection. For the 4 days he spent in the ICU the head of ICU and his team thought it was viral, while the infectious disease team thought it was bacterial. The gave him a boatload of antibiotics, treated his dehydration and gave him one course of pressors for his blood pressure.
They never figured out what it was, whether it was viral or bacterial, so if the antibiotics did anything to help. One antibiotic turns out he was allergic too, so that made things worse for a while.

There were some humorous conversations:
Infectious Disease Doctor: Did you get bit by a prairie dog? (this was the third time they asked so my son was a little over it)
My son: What does a prairie dog look like?
IDD: I don't know.....
My son: (pulls out his phone and googles it) Shows a picture of it to the doctor and says..........I think I would have remembered getting bit by that................
IDD: hmmmm, so that is what it looks like.........

IDD: We are testing him for bubonic plague
ME: Are there any other middle ages diseases you can test him for?
IDD: No........really there are 5-10 cases of BB out West a year.
ME: Who knew???????
IDD: Me..........

Nurse: He has lost some weight
ME: Yea......he can't afford to lose weight (he is really skinny)
Nurse: Is he anorexic?
ME: No, hospital food sucks.............

Anyway.....................having studied and taught classes in history of science and sociology of medicine, and having worked in hospitals, I understand that doctors aren't always right, medicine isn't always scientific, politics and $$$$ are always present, diagnosis isn't always clear, lots of disagreement happens, and loved ones/the public isn't always told exactly what is going on.

Just my two cents worth..................

 

[Deerfuel2]

There is a long history of scholarship in the "History of Science" and "Sociology of Medicine" to draw from that would argue that:
A. Politics is inherent in both science and medicine;
B. Scientist and Medical Doctors get stuck in paradigms finding it very difficult to think outside of them;
C. Money infuses both science and medicine creating bias;
D. Physicians and scientist are hardly a monolith in their opinions;
E. Medicine isn't anywhere near as cut and dry as many make it out as;
F. Diagnosis and treatment is as much an art form as science; and
G. Medicine doesn't always "follow the science."

I've told this story on here before, but is worthwhile to revisit it. Last summer my 19 year old son, who was in perfect health, and had just come home from Utah, went into septic shock. In the morning he woke up with an enlarged lymph node on the front of his thigh, was afebrile, in some pain, but otherwise was feeling fine. By 11:00PM he was in septic shock, with a blood pressure of 63 over 32 and a lactic acid of 15 (meaning a life threatening infection) and was dehydrated. The first two diagnosis were ruled out with Cat scan and MRI. That left an infection of unknown origin. He was given over 75 tests with no positive tests to figure out what caused the infection. For the 4 days he spent in the ICU the head of ICU and his team thought it was viral, while the infectious disease team thought it was bacterial. The gave him a boatload of antibiotics, treated his dehydration and gave him one course of pressors for his blood pressure.
They never figured out what it was, whether it was viral or bacterial, so if the antibiotics did anything to help. One antibiotic turns out he was allergic too, so that made things worse for a while.

There were some humorous conversations:
Infectious Disease Doctor: Did you get bit by a prairie dog? (this was the third time they asked so my son was a little over it)
My son: What does a prairie dog look like?
IDD: I don't know.....
My son: (pulls out his phone and googles it) Shows a picture of it to the doctor and says..........I think I would have remembered getting bit by that................
IDD: hmmmm, so that is what it looks like.........

IDD: We are testing him for bubonic plague
ME: Are there any other middle ages diseases you can test him for?
IDD: No........really there are 5-10 cases of BB out West a year.
ME: Who knew???????
IDD: Me..........

Nurse: He has lost some weight
ME: Yea......he can't afford to lose weight (he is really skinny)
Nurse: Is he anorexic?
ME: No, hospital food sucks.............

Anyway.....................having studied and taught classes in history of science and sociology of medicine, and having worked in hospitals, I understand that doctors aren't always right, medicine isn't always scientific, politics and $$$$ are always present, diagnosis isn't always clear, lots of disagreement happens, and loved ones/the public isn't always told exactly what is going on.

Just my two cents worth..................

Glad your son is better. That is a great post, and more eloquently said than I could.

 

[NoleSince1961]

There is a long history of scholarship in the "History of Science" and "Sociology of Medicine" to draw from that would argue that:
A. Politics is inherent in both science and medicine;
B. Scientist and Medical Doctors get stuck in paradigms finding it very difficult to think outside of them;
C. Money infuses both science and medicine creating bias;
D. Physicians and scientist are hardly a monolith in their opinions;
E. Medicine isn't anywhere near as cut and dry as many make it out as;
F. Diagnosis and treatment is as much an art form as science; and
G. Medicine doesn't always "follow the science."

I've told this story on here before, but is worthwhile to revisit it. Last summer my 19 year old son, who was in perfect health, and had just come home from Utah, went into septic shock. In the morning he woke up with an enlarged lymph node on the front of his thigh, was afebrile, in some pain, but otherwise was feeling fine. By 11:00PM he was in septic shock, with a blood pressure of 63 over 32 and a lactic acid of 15 (meaning a life threatening infection) and was dehydrated. The first two diagnosis were ruled out with Cat scan and MRI. That left an infection of unknown origin. He was given over 75 tests with no positive tests to figure out what caused the infection. For the 4 days he spent in the ICU the head of ICU and his team thought it was viral, while the infectious disease team thought it was bacterial. The gave him a boatload of antibiotics, treated his dehydration and gave him one course of pressors for his blood pressure.
They never figured out what it was, whether it was viral or bacterial, so if the antibiotics did anything to help. One antibiotic turns out he was allergic too, so that made things worse for a while.

There were some humorous conversations:
Infectious Disease Doctor: Did you get bit by a prairie dog? (this was the third time they asked so my son was a little over it)
My son: What does a prairie dog look like?
IDD: I don't know.....
My son: (pulls out his phone and googles it) Shows a picture of it to the doctor and says..........I think I would have remembered getting bit by that................
IDD: hmmmm, so that is what it looks like.........

IDD: We are testing him for bubonic plague
ME: Are there any other middle ages diseases you can test him for?
IDD: No........really there are 5-10 cases of BB out West a year.
ME: Who knew???????
IDD: Me..........

Nurse: He has lost some weight
ME: Yea......he can't afford to lose weight (he is really skinny)
Nurse: Is he anorexic?
ME: No, hospital food sucks.............

Anyway.....................having studied and taught classes in history of science and sociology of medicine, and having worked in hospitals, I understand that doctors aren't always right, medicine isn't always scientific, politics and $$$$ are always present, diagnosis isn't always clear, lots of disagreement happens, and loved ones/the public isn't always told exactly what is going on.

Just my two cents worth..................

First and foremost, I hope your son is better.

Since you quoted me, I have to think your lesson here is somehow directed at me?
If so, it's completely unnecessary, and I'm pretty sure I made that clear in this paragraph:
"Can and do “experts” disagree and have differing levels of credibility? Obviously. But that’s why it’s important to carefully vet info sources, their actual qualifications, track records, potential biases, etc… and sure seems a wiser choice to me to side with the prevailing take of the majority of experts in that field unless you or I genuinely have the expertise to justify a contrarian take, which is a much higher bar than mere tribalism."

as well as the approximately gazillion times I've mentioned in my posts how our learnings change as viruses mutate, protocols prove more or less effective, studies get reviewed and parsed and revised, updated, replaced by better studies, etc. etc.

But maybe others needed to hear your doctors and scientists aren't infallible oracles of truth message, which seems rather obvious to me, and my comment just happened to be the one you replied to.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

There is a long history of scholarship in the "History of Science" and "Sociology of Medicine" to draw from that would argue that:
A. Politics is inherent in both science and medicine;
B. Scientist and Medical Doctors get stuck in paradigms finding it very difficult to think outside of them;
C. Money infuses both science and medicine creating bias;
D. Physicians and scientist are hardly a monolith in their opinions;
E. Medicine isn't anywhere near as cut and dry as many make it out as;
F. Diagnosis and treatment is as much an art form as science; and
G. Medicine doesn't always "follow the science."

I've told this story on here before, but is worthwhile to revisit it. Last summer my 19 year old son, who was in perfect health, and had just come home from Utah, went into septic shock. In the morning he woke up with an enlarged lymph node on the front of his thigh, was afebrile, in some pain, but otherwise was feeling fine. By 11:00PM he was in septic shock, with a blood pressure of 63 over 32 and a lactic acid of 15 (meaning a life threatening infection) and was dehydrated. The first two diagnosis were ruled out with Cat scan and MRI. That left an infection of unknown origin. He was given over 75 tests with no positive tests to figure out what caused the infection. For the 4 days he spent in the ICU the head of ICU and his team thought it was viral, while the infectious disease team thought it was bacterial. The gave him a boatload of antibiotics, treated his dehydration and gave him one course of pressors for his blood pressure.
They never figured out what it was, whether it was viral or bacterial, so if the antibiotics did anything to help. One antibiotic turns out he was allergic too, so that made things worse for a while.

There were some humorous conversations:
Infectious Disease Doctor: Did you get bit by a prairie dog? (this was the third time they asked so my son was a little over it)
My son: What does a prairie dog look like?
IDD: I don't know.....
My son: (pulls out his phone and googles it) Shows a picture of it to the doctor and says..........I think I would have remembered getting bit by that................
IDD: hmmmm, so that is what it looks like.........

IDD: We are testing him for bubonic plague
ME: Are there any other middle ages diseases you can test him for?
IDD: No........really there are 5-10 cases of BB out West a year.
ME: Who knew???????
IDD: Me..........

Nurse: He has lost some weight
ME: Yea......he can't afford to lose weight (he is really skinny)
Nurse: Is he anorexic?
ME: No, hospital food sucks.............

Anyway.....................having studied and taught classes in history of science and sociology of medicine, and having worked in hospitals, I understand that doctors aren't always right, medicine isn't always scientific, politics and $$$$ are always present, diagnosis isn't always clear, lots of disagreement happens, and loved ones/the public isn't always told exactly what is going on.

Just my two cents worth..................

Those prairie dogs are NASTY, and they carry LOADS of every bacteria and disease known to man. Literally more disgusting than a sewer rat. They are hated in Montana (and elsewhere), where they destroy vast cattle pastures.

 

[GbrNole]

There is a long history of scholarship in the "History of Science" and "Sociology of Medicine" to draw from that would argue that:
A. Politics is inherent in both science and medicine;
B. Scientist and Medical Doctors get stuck in paradigms finding it very difficult to think outside of them;
C. Money infuses both science and medicine creating bias;
D. Physicians and scientist are hardly a monolith in their opinions;
E. Medicine isn't anywhere near as cut and dry as many make it out as;
F. Diagnosis and treatment is as much an art form as science; and
G. Medicine doesn't always "follow the science."

I've told this story on here before, but is worthwhile to revisit it. Last summer my 19 year old son, who was in perfect health, and had just come home from Utah, went into septic shock. In the morning he woke up with an enlarged lymph node on the front of his thigh, was afebrile, in some pain, but otherwise was feeling fine. By 11:00PM he was in septic shock, with a blood pressure of 63 over 32 and a lactic acid of 15 (meaning a life threatening infection) and was dehydrated. The first two diagnosis were ruled out with Cat scan and MRI. That left an infection of unknown origin. He was given over 75 tests with no positive tests to figure out what caused the infection. For the 4 days he spent in the ICU the head of ICU and his team thought it was viral, while the infectious disease team thought it was bacterial. The gave him a boatload of antibiotics, treated his dehydration and gave him one course of pressors for his blood pressure.
They never figured out what it was, whether it was viral or bacterial, so if the antibiotics did anything to help. One antibiotic turns out he was allergic too, so that made things worse for a while.

There were some humorous conversations:
Infectious Disease Doctor: Did you get bit by a prairie dog? (this was the third time they asked so my son was a little over it)
My son: What does a prairie dog look like?
IDD: I don't know.....
My son: (pulls out his phone and googles it) Shows a picture of it to the doctor and says..........I think I would have remembered getting bit by that................
IDD: hmmmm, so that is what it looks like.........

IDD: We are testing him for bubonic plague
ME: Are there any other middle ages diseases you can test him for?
IDD: No........really there are 5-10 cases of BB out West a year.
ME: Who knew???????
IDD: Me..........

Nurse: He has lost some weight
ME: Yea......he can't afford to lose weight (he is really skinny)
Nurse: Is he anorexic?
ME: No, hospital food sucks.............

Anyway.....................having studied and taught classes in history of science and sociology of medicine, and having worked in hospitals, I understand that doctors aren't always right, medicine isn't always scientific, politics and $$$$ are always present, diagnosis isn't always clear, lots of disagreement happens, and loved ones/the public isn't always told exactly what is going on.

Just my two cents worth..................

went round and round in circles with my kid’s oncologist and her orthopedic doctor when she kept breaking bones at and after diagnosis. They insisted it was a byproduct of chemo and would pass.

long story short it was acute onset of osteogenesis imperfecta. Rare but was being studied in Australia and England. St. Jude had just began a study on it also (20 years ago now). Low dose treatment with osteoporosis meds is now part of the childhood leukemia protocol.

I’ll forever be in debt to my daughter’s oncologist but i did battle that topic. He had never come across it before despite being very well qualified.

 

[fsufool]

Those prairie dogs are NASTY, and they carry LOADS of every bacteria and disease known to man. Literally more disgusting than a sewer rat. They are hated in Montana (and elsewhere), where they destroy vast cattle pastures.

Who knew..........LOL

 

[fsufool]

First and foremost, I hope your son is better.

He is, walked right out of the ICU after 4 days and went to his job 2 days later. Maybe a little tired the first week after, but no ill effects after that.

Two weeks after that went to visit a friend in Columbia for a week.......

 

[F4Gary]

He is, walked right out of the ICU after 4 days and went to his job 2 days later. Maybe a little tired the first week after, but no ill effects after that.

Two weeks after that went to visit a friend in Columbia for a week.......

Ever watch the show Monsters Inside Me? Pretty eye opening what people can get and doctors can't figure out what it is. Parasites, Botflies, amoeba, watch batteries, steel tines from cleaning the BBQ...

 

[fsufool]

Ever watch the show Monsters Inside Me? Pretty eye opening what people can get and doctors can't figure out what it is. Parasites, Botflies, amoeba, watch batteries, steel tines from cleaning the BBQ...

No, I haven't.

 

[Dhersh]

Ever watch the show Monsters Inside Me? Pretty eye opening what people can get and doctors can't figure out what it is. Parasites, Botflies, amoeba, watch batteries, steel tines from cleaning the BBQ...

My father started walking with a limp some years ago. More specifically his leg buckles when he is casually walking on flat surfaces. Visited every type of doctor known to man at some of the best facilities in the region, many of them multiple times. We still don't know what has caused it.

 

[itsjustme0770]

"Take caution with your tone."
Col. Jessup
A Few Good Men

So you are citing the guys who said the code red was cool? Got it.

 

[goldmom]

So you are citing the guys who said the code red was cool? Got it.

🙄

 

[SteveT1]

July 4th Florida was averaging 30 deaths per day
September 1st Florida was averaging over 350 deaths per day

Did they just decide to inflate deaths in August and September? And even you don't believe your line about having a cough.

It’s not my line, it’s the CDC’s guidelines. Look them up. They’ve been there, unchanged, since at least May of 2020.