Westworld

[dmm5157]

Here is an interesting fan theory I found:

I think I have this figured out. Whenever we see Dolores "interviewed" by Bernard or Ford, it's just taking place in the programming of her head when she "dreams". They are doing it remotely through VR from the base. Bernard respects the hosts, that's why Dolores is always in a dress, Ford however has a God Complex so Dolores is naked, no need to protect her modesty. It would be a large inconvenience for them to come and remove her from Logan and William every night and have them wait for her to return.

I believe we are watching two timelines. William is the Man In Black 30 years ago, I believe we are watching them in the park a few years after Arnold's death. Since Arnold's death was reported as 34 years ago, I'm guessing this is happening 2 years later, the park is suffering with expensive maintenance costs and may have to close. Logan's family purchase a controlling stake, and eventually Logan, 2 years later dies in the parks "incident" that happened 30 years ago. William becomes a changed man as he goes further into the rabbit hole that is Westworld. He seems to become colder and "free" the longer he's at the park, he was hesitant to save the hostage prostitute in town, when she was in danger, yet he's quick to save Dolores. He's slowly breaking free of his insecurities in the real world and is truly becoming "free".

Logan mentions that he was wearing a cheap black suit when became EVP. Arnold created the hosts, believing them to be perfect and was disgusted how Ford allowed them to be used and abused. He uploaded the code into many Hosts, who were all eventually phased out, because they were non biological, except Dolores. Ford has kept her around because she is a clone of someone he once loved. Dolores triggered the incident of 30 years ago but failed to break free and achieve consciousness. Now with the code updated she is remembering the time she came close with William and made it to that church "Maze" and now she's heading back.

William the MiB has learned about Arnold, in the barn he didn't rape Dolores he changed her code. Dolores has left the farm and is now heading to the church on her own. The church already exists we see Ford finding what was left of the steeple buried in the ground, he showed it to Bernard. He's losing control of Westworld to the board and wants to tear down the world he built before he dies. He wants to die as a God, creating life and finishing Arnolds work.

All that makes sense to me, especially the part about the differing timelines.

Spoiler

https://www.bustle.com/articles/192...estworld-which-could-confirm-a-popular-theory

That would make more sense after last episode considering that there are two Lawrences (the one killed by MiB and El Lazo). As a funny side comment, El Lazo means noose or lasso in spanish, which is exactly how Lawrence hangs Lawrence to drain him of his blood.

Also, the wisky that Ford and MiB drink together in last episode is called Lawrence. Very odd.

 

[dmm5157]

I am positive they have a nice waiver of liability contract in place. Nice to see you in this thread. Was wondering when you were going to chime in.

I was getting my sea legs. The 1st show drew me in, but last few episodes my interest was waning. I hadn't been doing the leg work to investigate some of the questions that were lingering in my mind. As I start digging, I'm starting to get back into the story.

 

[vevois23]

I was on board with the separate timeline theory when it was presented after episode 2. There were a couple of scenes in the last show that had me second guessing it though. I have to go back and watch it again (I nodded off a couple of times), but I will say that the show is a fantastic mind-****.

 

[ericram]

I was on board with the separate timeline theory when it was presented after episode 2. There were a couple of scenes in the last show that had me second guessing it though. I have to go back and watch it again (I nodded off a couple of times), but I will say that the show is a fantastic mind-****.

much like that orgy scene. Thank you HBO!

 

[funksouljon]

I agree with a lot of this. But the world is much larger than say Disney World or any amusement park. In many views you can see or the horizon for miles and not see another structure. I suppose the facility could be underground , but that is unclear. I'd probably be more apt to believe the way things worked if they showed how the workers moved around so quickly within the park.


This was interesting. Lots of good info. I didn't realize Max you could stay was 14 days.

https://www.inverse.com/article/22284-westworld-delos-map-mesa-gold

And based on this site, which has a map with scale on it, it appears the site is about 15 km (9 miles ) in diameter.

https://discoverwestworld.com/#explore


Reading still more, fan theories seem to think the park is on another planet since the overseer facilities are so remote.

Disney World covers 43 square miles in total. And they did that right next to Orlando. Seems like Nevada/New Mexico would have plenty of empty space to build a park for the right money and be remote. Bet none of those people ever visited West Texas But how to hide the large metal birds that would inevitably fly over? Its just money, no fly zone.

Re the thought of it being on a different planet. Perhaps. But depending on how far they shipped them away from Earth would also skew the view of Orion. While its negligible in distance perhaps moving a little WOULD shift the perspective of the constellation. Any FSU astronomers wanna weigh in?

 

[ericram]

Disney World covers 43 square miles in total. And they did that right next to Orlando. Seems like Nevada/New Mexico would have plenty of empty space to build a park for the right money and be remote. Bet none of those people ever visited West Texas But how to hide the large metal birds that would inevitably fly over? Its just money, no fly zone.

Re the thought of it being on a different planet. Perhaps. But depending on how far they shipped them away from Earth would also skew the view of Orion. While its negligible in distance perhaps moving a little WOULD shift the perspective of the constellation. Any FSU astronomers wanna weigh in?

I am going with it being on another planet. Maybe an man made planet?

 

[funksouljon]

I am going with it being on another planet. Maybe an man made planet?

Money is no object for you huh? They did comment in the last episode they are having money issues.

 

[dmm5157]

Disney World covers 43 square miles in total. And they did that right next to Orlando. Seems like Nevada/New Mexico would have plenty of empty space to build a park for the right money and be remote. Bet none of those people ever visited West Texas But how to hide the large metal birds that would inevitably fly over? Its just money, no fly zone.

Re the thought of it being on a different planet. Perhaps. But depending on how far they shipped them away from Earth would also skew the view of Orion. While its negligible in distance perhaps moving a little WOULD shift the perspective of the constellation. Any FSU astronomers wanna weigh in?

It very much has a feel of "magic" to it. Like the scene where Ford is bulldozing the hell out of part of the park in Ep 4 just on a whim without seemingly anyone else knowing.

 

[funksouljon]

It very much has a feel of "magic" to it. Like the scene where Ford is bulldozing the hell out of part of the park in Ep 4 just on a whim without seemingly anyone else knowing.

Its good to be king ... and have your own way.....

 

[dmm5157]

Its good to be king ... and have your own way.....

Or "God" as many are saying, with regard to Ford.

 

[funksouljon]

Or "God" as many are saying, with regard to Ford.

I don't think Tom Petty wrote any songs about god.

 

[ericram]

Money is no object for you huh? They did comment in the last episode they are having money issues.

probably because the cost of development, building, and running the park is extreme and there are a limited number of people who can afford to attend.

 

[dmm5157]

probably because the cost of development, building, and running the park is extreme and there are a limited number of people who can afford to attend.

And it's capped at 14 days per visit, max. That's a max of $560k per person.

Would be interesting to see how many people they have visiting the park at any given time. Not important to the story, but just intriguing to think about.

 

[Random_John]

how does anthony hopkins stop all of the workers without telling them to stop? I'm talking about the scene in episode 4 that was referenced earlier. How do they stop without commands? Is he a god there?

 

[funksouljon]

I do wonder as we see new faces. How many are hosts vs guests. I know we follow a certain storylines, but sure at some point multiple story lines could cross right? And wondered about two guests trying to shoot each other (or have relations).

 

[funksouljon]

how does anthony hopkins stop all of the workers without telling them to stop? I'm talking about the scene in episode 4 that was referenced earlier. How do they stop without commands? Is he a god there?

That was pretty cool. Definitely flexing his muscles to remind her who was in charge and control vs having the appearance of control.

 

[ericram]

how does anthony hopkins stop all of the workers without telling them to stop? I'm talking about the scene in episode 4 that was referenced earlier. How do they stop without commands? Is he a god there?

That was an awesome scene. Then the machine was coming to tear it all down. I think he has a word, phrase, or motion that he has built into the programming.

 

[dmm5157]

I do wonder as we see new faces. How many are hosts vs guests. I know we follow a certain storylines, but sure at some point multiple story lines could cross right? And wondered about two guests trying to shoot each other (or have relations).

Personally, I would rather have free reign myself over having to worry about crossing paths with other guests and having to worry about them messing with my storyline.

The park is indeed massive, but I was curious about that myself, regarding crossing streams.


And yes, I got the impression that Ford can control the hosts with his mind. Just look at when Teddy grabs the MiB's knife.

 

[Cubman777]

I am convinced that as mentioned above, we are watching two separate timelines. There is no doubt that MIB is William and that Dolores has done all of this before. The most intriguing thing to me is the maze aspect. What does it really mean? Why would Ford/Arnold have built in such a thing? and what happens should one solve it?

 

[dmm5157]

I am convinced that as mentioned above, we are watching two separate timelines. There is no doubt that MIB is William and that Dolores has done all of this before. The most intriguing thing to me is the maze aspect. What does it really mean? Why would Ford/Arnold have built in such a thing? and what happens should one solve it?

I agree with all of this.

 

[Rhino_nole]

Personally, I would rather have free reign myself over having to worry about crossing paths with other guests and having to worry about them messing with my storyline.

The park is indeed massive, but I was curious about that myself, regarding crossing streams.


And yes, I got the impression that Ford can control the hosts with his mind. Just look at when Teddy grabs the MiB's knife.

I think Teddy grabbed the knife because it's part of his programming to protect humans from permanent damage................or did he do it because Ford made him.

 

[HulaNole]

And yes, I got the impression that Ford can control the hosts with his mind. Just look at when Teddy grabs the MiB's knife.

Joy: ... What’s also fun is that we’ve talked about how there are ways to make sure there isn’t guest-on-guest violence in the park. And here [with Teddy grabbing the Man in Black’s knife] we see the hosts’ Good Samaritan reflex kicking in.

 

[HulaNole]

how does anthony hopkins stop all of the workers without telling them to stop? I'm talking about the scene in episode 4 that was referenced earlier. How do they stop without commands? Is he a god there?

From page 3 in this thread:

From the showrunners on the conversation between Dr. Ford and Cullen:

"...we were also excited about this moment where you were reminded about the sheer power that Ford can command as the creator of this place. You can imagine Walt Disney having a lunch at Ariel’s Grotto in the middle of Disneyland and commanding all the roller coasters to stop all at once. There’s an extraordinary power there."

"In the pilot, Ford felt a bit like the Lion in Winter, that he might be stepping back. Here, we’re reminded that you underestimate this guy at your peril. He has his own designs of what he wants this place to be. You’re also reminded he has an extremely controlling relationship with the hosts. Like the moment when he cuts a host’s face open and you realize why they’re all stripped bare in cold storage, that it’s a very practical measure on his part to make sure nobody makes Arnold’s mistake again, that treating these hosts as machines is vital to ensure that the techs who work with them don’t mistake them for people. You’re reminded that Ford is not a friend to the hosts. He’s a father figure and that can go a number of different ways."

 

[ericram]

From page 3 in this thread:

From the showrunners on the conversation between Dr. Ford and Cullen:

"...we were also excited about this moment where you were reminded about the sheer power that Ford can command as the creator of this place. You can imagine Walt Disney having a lunch at Ariel’s Grotto in the middle of Disneyland and commanding all the roller coasters to stop all at once. There’s an extraordinary power there."

"In the pilot, Ford felt a bit like the Lion in Winter, that he might be stepping back. Here, we’re reminded that you underestimate this guy at your peril. He has his own designs of what he wants this place to be. You’re also reminded he has an extremely controlling relationship with the hosts. Like the moment when he cuts a host’s face open and you realize why they’re all stripped bare in cold storage, that it’s a very practical measure on his part to make sure nobody makes Arnold’s mistake again, that treating these hosts as machines is vital to ensure that the techs who work with them don’t mistake them for people. You’re reminded that Ford is not a friend to the hosts. He’s a father figure and that can go a number of different ways."

Thanks for the reminder. That conversation between Ford and Delores when she asks are they friends comes to mind.

 

[HulaNole]

Also, in the scene I believe Dr. Ford just lifts a finger the same way he did with the snake in an earlier episode.

 

[DanC78]

If William has been in there for 30 years chasing Delores and the Maze....he's an idiot.

And I thought this theory about it being a flashback was loony tunes when it was originally brought up after episode 2, but it definitely has legs to it now. So kudos to the poster who first said it.

I think it probably is a flashback since Ed Harris's character name is "man in black". Seems kind of obvious now.

And I was under the impression he raped Delores in the first episode. I guess he was asking her questions. I wonder if they do a flashback as to what went on in the barn that night.

 

[dmm5157]

I think Teddy grabbed the knife because it's part of his programming to protect humans from permanent damage................or did he do it because Ford made him.

The only way he could have done that automatically to protect humans would be if he could anticipate what MiB was going to do, because Teddy grabbed the knife before MiB could have even gotten close to Ford. If MiB is a former host, then that would explain things as Teddy would have known his intentions to try and harm a guest/non-host.

 

[RTM58]

I think Teddy grabbed the knife because it's part of his programming to protect humans from permanent damage................or did he do it because Ford made him.

It's more likely they are programmed to protect Ford.

 

[DanC78]

It's more likely they are programmed to protect Ford.

I thought this obvious.

Mr Ford can control the host with his mind. Everyone else needs a computer or a tool. Not Mr Ford. They are all an extension of him and his creation.....God

 

[HulaNole]

It's more likely they are programmed to protect Ford.

I provided an answer from one of the showrunners above.

 

[TennNole17]

If it's alternate timelines-

Delores learns how to shoot others in the flashbacks. William is obviously very affectionate towards her.

In the future/present, Delores can't shoot anyone and MIB seems to hate her.

Story could unfold and explain that, and I'm leaning towards that, but great show

 

[LesClaypool]

Didn't Ford say the MiB's name when they sat down at the table? I thought he did but I don't remember what it was...other than it wasn't William.

Or, I'm completely imagining that, which is also possible.

 

[DanC78]

This is a show that is definetly worth watching twice.

Caught the scene where Ford was talking to Delores last night. I swear Ford said to Delores, "do you remember who I used to be". It was his first comment Ford said to her. She replies, "no". He then said, "let's talk about Author". Something like that.

And what are the chances that Williams douche bag friend is the MIB? I mean, he is dressed in all black.

 

[ericram]

I just don't buy the time line theory. Why would the Hosts look/act the same when we obviously know that they have improved them over time? Why would William look so different than the MIB?

I am not seeing it, and hope that is not the case as it is too easy a plot vehicle for such a good show.

 

[DanC78]

I was looking to see if any of the host were bleeding during what would be the 'flashback'.

Didn't man in black say they didn't bleed when he first started coming to park?

 

[Random_John]

So what do you think happened to the douche bag? Did the Confederados guys kill him?

The plot about William being the MiB has legs. I have read a theory where Lawrence falls for Delores but she's really playing him. He finds out about being played and winds up despising her for using him. While being played he found out about Delores maze game and he wants to find the maze. He has the money to become a VIP as his brother-in-law was going to invest in the park. I believe at the center of the maze is Arnold’s secret to unlocking the AI to full singularity.

As for the satellite story with the ax-man I do not know.

I do believe that the brothel manager gets herself killed every day to go and see the bird man as he can probably program her to hurt someone. After all his bird did hurt a guy. We shall see.

 

[dmm5157]

I just don't buy the time line theory. Why would the Hosts look/act the same when we obviously know that they have improved them over time? Why would William look so different than the MIB?

I am not seeing it, and hope that is not the case as it is too easy a plot vehicle for such a good show.

Lots of clues, the different logos (presumably from different eras) is a tell.

Possible spoilers

Spoiler

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...theory-lawrence-bernard-is-arnold-clone-robot

 

[HulaNole]

I am not seeing it, and hope that is not the case as it is too easy a plot vehicle for such a good show.

Yeah, I think the scenario will be more white hat/black hat with Delores scenario as they reach the end of the maze scenario since both groups are on that path.

 

[dmm5157]

Yeah, I think the scenario will be more white hat/black hat with Delores scenario as they reach the end of the maze scenario since both groups are on that path.

The timeline theories don't all revolve around William and the MiB as being the same person. I've seen few that make sense that separate the two.

The constant flash-backs with Delores muddle things, implying multiple timelines.

 

[HulaNole]

The timeline theories don't all revolve around William and the MiB as being the same person

Ah, thank you. That was the only one that I knew of that was circulating.