What I Don’t Get About Vaccine

[GeddyLee09]

Less than 20% of Americans surveyed refuse to get vaccinated. That's far less than required to satisfy the definition of a minority, no matter how large the margin of error in any properly designed survey.
Contrary to the "everybody's opinion is equally valid" and "we can just agree to disagree" brush-offs that have become far too prevalent in discussions of factual data, there is simply no debating that a minority of Americans refuse to get vaccinated. It is fact, supported by data.
Choose any credible survey or analysis of actual vaccination data... you and your fellow uber-skeptics are thankfully in the minority. Yes, you're welcome to your fears and opinions, but we all suffer the significant consequences.

The Share Of U.S. Adults Willing To Get Vaccinated Ticks Up, A New Poll Finds

The NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist survey finds 19% of adults say they won't get vaccinated. That's down 5 points from the month prior, coinciding with the delta surge and FDA approval of the Pfizer vaccine.

www.npr.org

Not sure how you got on that horse but your missing my point. I’m not debating how many are unvaccinated as that number is easily obtained. Not sure who you are referring to as the minority but I happen to be vaccinated, boostered and recovered from covid.

A free society allows us to disagree and that’s fine. I happen to disagree with parts of this and the methods used to control it. You agree with all of it and that’s fine too.

Again stay safe and have a nice day.

 

[nolepaul23]

Polio says hello, tough guy.
(or it would but it’s not around in the US thanks to rational citizens and vaccine mandates)

Nor is it mandated to be given to anyone. Vaccines like measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, etc... are not mandatory.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Not sure how you got on that horse but your missing my point. I’m not debating how many are unvaccinated as that number is easily obtained. Not sure who you are referring to as the minority but I happen to be vaccinated, boostered and recovered from covid.

A free society allows us to disagree and that’s fine. I happen to disagree with parts of this and the methods used to control it. You agree with all of it and that’s fine too.

Again stay safe and have a nice day.

No leader wants to be pushed into a corner where a vaccine mandate becomes necessary.
But since our public leaders are tasked with protecting public health, among with other responsibilities that must all be balanced in a nuanced way, when other efforts to persuade the public to get vaccinated are insufficient, vaccine mandates might unfortunately come into play.
Same general idea with business leaders.
I don’t like vaccine mandates, but simply allowing this plague to mutate and spread is a worse choice IMHO.
Glad to hear you contributed to the public good by getting vaxxed. Thanks.
Have a good one.
Happy Holidays.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Nor is it mandated to be given to anyone. Vaccines like measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, etc... are not mandatory.

Cool. Let me know where you learned that Covid vax is mandated for everyone. Nobody in this thread ever alluded to that.
(and yes polio was eradicated partly by mandates… that history is available for your searching)

 

[nolepaul23]

Cool. Let me know where you learned that Covid vax is mandated for everyone. Nobody in this thread ever alluded to that.
(and yes polio was eradicated partly by mandates… that history is available for your searching)

I never said the COVID vax was mandated but if it ever is and someone from the government shows up at my door to give me the jab, my response will be to invoke my Second Amendment rights.

 

[NoleSince1961]

I never said the COVID vax was mandated but if it ever is and someone from the government shows up at my door to give me the jab, my response will be to invoke my Second Amendment rights.

Lol enjoy the holiday season

 

[Dhersh]

I have two words to begin to start making you look very foolish:

Go on

@nolepaul23 🤣

 

[Dhersh]

Lol enjoy the holiday season

His response is to join a militia lol

 

[Deerfuel2]

Polio says hello, tough guy.
(or it would but it’s not around in the US thanks to rational citizens and vaccine mandates)

Here is the reality of that argument... when people were vaccinated against polio, people who were vaccinated, stopped catching polio. It was a pretty simple equation. That is not the same scenario that we are dealing with now.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Here is the reality of that argument... when people were vaccinated against polio, people who were vaccinated, stopped catching polio. It was a pretty simple equation. That is not the same scenario that we are dealing with now.

Actually, the "reality" of the history of vaccines in the US, acceptance, resistance and mandates is much more varied and complex than any "simple equation".
But the comment I was responding to was so ridiculous and clearly just for shock value/attention that it didn't merit more time for a nuanced rebuttal.

States have mandated vaccinations since long before COVID-19

Republican- and Democratic-led states alike already require hundreds of thousands of citizens to be vaccinated against various diseases.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[SteveT1]

No leader wants to be pushed into a corner where a vaccine mandate becomes necessary.
But since our public leaders are tasked with protecting public health, among with other responsibilities that must all be balanced in a nuanced way, when other efforts to persuade the public to get vaccinated are insufficient, vaccine mandates might unfortunately come into play.
Same general idea with business leaders.
I don’t like vaccine mandates, but simply allowing this plague to mutate and spread is a worse choice IMHO.
Glad to hear you contributed to the public good by getting vaxxed. Thanks.
Have a good one.
Happy Holidays.

which public leaders? the federal government is given no such task--or authority to implement a vaccine mandate on the general population.

 

[NoleSince1961]

which public leaders? the federal government is given no such task--or authority to implement a vaccine mandate on the general population.

Which specific vaccine mandates are legal or not is not just widely debatable but also too complex for a message board like this and quickly detours into politics, which are prohibited on here.
Simply reading this link should underscore why the legality of specific vaccine mandate terms (and who has legal authority to "mandate" what) is not worth opening that can of worms. And the details aren't really relevant to my general commentary anyway.

Federal appeals court reinstates Biden administration's business vaccine and testing mandate

A federal appeals court has reinstated the Biden administration's vaccine and testing requirement for private businesses that covers about 80 million workers.

www.cnbc.com

 

[SteveT1]

Which specific vaccine mandates are legal or not is not just widely debatable but also too complex for a message board like this and quickly detours into politics, which are prohibited on here.
Simply reading this link should underscore why the legality of specific vaccine mandate terms (and who has legal authority to "mandate" what) is not worth opening that can of worms. And the details aren't really relevant to my general commentary anyway.

Federal appeals court reinstates Biden administration's business vaccine and testing mandate

A federal appeals court has reinstated the Biden administration's vaccine and testing requirement for private businesses that covers about 80 million workers.

www.cnbc.com

Exactly the opposite. It has nothing to do with politics. It’s a legal issue. You bring up prior mandates, but it was well-accepted that federal vaccine mandates are not authorized by the Constitution. The strongest argument is under the commerce clause, but recent commerce clause jurisprudence (in addition to pre-Wickard cases) suggest it’s not really a close case. But, of course, there’s no federal statute currently authorizing this mandate.

I noticed you also bring up the “brave folks” who rid us of Polio by getting the vaccine. But the Polio vaccine is far more effective than the covid vax. That’s not debatable. Three shots of this vax doesn’t prevent covid infection. The brave folks who took the polio vax would’ve stopped taking it if it couldn’t stop them from getting polio.

 

[SteveT1]

The article you posted says nothing of legal significance. There are nationwide injunctions in place from courts outside of the 6th circuit.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Exactly the opposite. It has nothing to do with politics. It’s a legal issue. You bring up prior mandates, but it was well-accepted that federal vaccine mandates are not authorized by the Constitution. The strongest argument is under the commerce clause, but recent commerce clause jurisprudence (in addition to pre-Wickard cases) suggest it’s not really a close case. But, of course, there’s no federal statute currently authorizing this mandate.

I noticed you also bring up the “brave folks” who rid us of Polio by getting the vaccine. But the Polio vaccine is far more effective than the covid vax. That’s not debatable. Three shots of this vax doesn’t prevent covid infection. The brave folks who took the polio vax would’ve stopped taking it if it couldn’t stop them from getting polio.

If the lack of federal authority to issue any type of vaccine mandates were as widely accepted and cut and dry as you suggest, then why did a federal appeals court just reinstate Biden’s vaccine mandate for some large businesses?
And do not quote me and then put in quotation marks things I never said. Where did I say anything about “brave folks” who rid us of polio. You obviously need to actually research the history of polio vaccine acceptance, including use of mandates, and refrain from misattributing quotes to me.
Thanks. Good night.

 

[SteveT1]

If the lack of federal authority to issue any type of vaccine mandates were as widely accepted and cut and dry as you suggest, then why did a federal appeals court just reinstate Biden’s vaccine mandate for some large businesses?
And do not quote me and then put in quotation marks things I never said. Where did I say anything about “brave folks” who rid us of polio. You obviously need to actually research the history of polio vaccine acceptance, including use of mandates, and refrain from misattributing quotes to me.
Thanks. Good night.

Polio vaccine and covid vax are not comparable.

The 6th circuit has no jurisdiction over courts within the 5th circuit. So the nationwide injunction is still in place.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Polio vaccine and covid vax are not comparable.

The 6th circuit has no jurisdiction over courts within the 5th circuit. So the nationwide injunction is still in place.

This might shock you, but the jurisdiction issue will be up to the Supreme Court to decide, rather than any WC poster, assuming they take this up before it goes into effect.
The injunction has been lifted for now.

Sixth Circuit Lifts Stay of OSHA Vaccine Mandate – ETS In Effect Starting January 4, 2022 (For Now) (US)

In the latest chapter in the dizzying fight over private employer vaccine mandates, on December 17, 2021, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals lifted a

www.employmentlawworldview.com

 

[itsjustme0770]

Polio vaccine and covid vax are not comparable.

The 6th circuit has no jurisdiction over courts within the 5th circuit. So the nationwide injunction is still in place.

Spoken like someone who has no clue about the legal system or what they are talking about. The issue was consolidated and farmed out to the 6th Cir. for decision. So, in fact, it is binding nationwide. I'm sure it will go up and we'll see, but talk about things you know something about.

6th Circuit undoes 5th Circuit Stay

 

[SteveT1]

Spoken like someone who has no clue about the legal system or what they are talking about. The issue was consolidated and farmed out to the 6th Cir. for decision. So, in fact, it is binding nationwide. I'm sure it will go up and we'll see, but talk about things you know something about.

6th Circuit undoes 5th Circuit Stay

Tell us more about the supremacy clause being an independent grant of substantive powers to the federal gov't, as you did in other threads. Constitution > obscure circuit lottery in our legal system.

 

[seminoledale]

hopefully ScOTUS smacks down this unconstitutional mandate. When people quit en mass in February the economy is going over a cliff. Vaccines are sterile. mRNA shots are not vaccines.

 

[itsjustme0770]

hopefully ScOTUS smacks down this unconstitutional mandate. When people quit en mass in February the economy is going over a cliff. Vaccines are sterile. mRNA shots are not vaccines.

Make sure that tin foil hat fits snuggly.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

hopefully ScOTUS smacks down this unconstitutional mandate. When people quit en mass in February the economy is going over a cliff. Vaccines are sterile. mRNA shots are not vaccines.

I’ll just say that all of the vaccines and boosters don’t seem to be slowing the spread of anything. The masks have been confirmed to be the jokes that common sense already told us they were/are.

Maybe the shots are keeping people out of the hospitals. Not sure about that. But the wildly inconsistent and politicized rhetoric around the whole fiasco makes me doubt almost everything I hear/read about it.

 

[NoleSince1961]

I’ll just say that all of the vaccines and boosters don’t seem to be slowing the spread of anything. The masks have been confirmed to be the jokes that common sense already told us they were/are.

Maybe the shots are keeping people out of the hospitals. Not sure about that. But the wildly inconsistent and politicized rhetoric around the whole fiasco makes me doubt almost everything I hear/read about it.

Yep, somebody promised us that medical science is already all known and one of them facts are facts deals.
It really sucks that scientific discoveries and knowledge can’t just be 100% airtight and locked in and never-changing from the get go, and that when a novel virus pops up them smart folks can’t have everything totally figured out way before they wreak havoc, and somebody’s definitely gotta be lying to us when them viruses mutate and don’t act exactly like all the other viruses before them.

If only we knew which info sources were more likely to be right more of the time about this super technical and complex and often-changing, potentially lethal medical stuff… Mayo Clinic and the CDC and smarty pants science folks like that — or — the My Pillow dude, Dr. Stella Immanuel the demon sex astrologer, and my neighbor with his awesome Facebook memes.
Everybody’s opinion is just as valid. Damn, what can we do?

 

[seminoledale]

Well, we know who’s advice to ignore and his name is Anthony. How have their been more deaths with shots than the previous year without?

 

[NoleSince1961]

Well, we know who’s advice to ignore and his name is Anthony. How have their been more deaths with shots than the previous year without?

Stats and correlation might not be your thing, but since vaccine vials sitting in the fridge don’t actually deter virus injuries and deaths, do you think % of population vaccinated over any time period of interest might come into play?
(And how about the severity of outcomes differing with different strains? How about changes in public behavior due to compliance fatigue and impacts of anti-compliance influences? More or less open travel and group gatherings? etc etc)

 

[seminoledale]

Stats and correlation might not be your thing, but since vaccine vials sitting in the fridge don’t actually deter virus injuries and deaths, do you think % of population vaccinated over any time period of interest might come into play?
(And how about the severity of outcomes differing with different strains? How about changes in public behavior due to compliance fatigue and impacts of anti-compliance influences? More or less open travel and group gatherings? etc etc)

For every 1 saved by a clot shot, 2 die from the clot shot. Ron DeSantis has done a wonderful job in managing Covid. I live in TN and am super impressed with him. It’s not the unvaxxed dying. Alex Berenson posted some new studies today on substack, very interesting stuff.

 

[itsjustme0770]

For every 1 saved by a clot shot, 2 die from the clot shot. Ron DeSantis has done a wonderful job in managing Covid. I live in TN and am super impressed with him. It’s not the unvaxxed dying. Alex Berenson posted some new studies today on substack, very interesting stuff.

 

[Buckheadnole]

This thread is entertaining. One person referred to this as the plague! Gold.

 

[ValdostaNole]

I never said the COVID vax was mandated but if it ever is and someone from the government shows up at my door to give me the jab, my response will be to invoke my Second Amendment rights.

Amen !

 

[NoleSince1961]

For every 1 saved by a clot shot, 2 die from the clot shot. Ron DeSantis has done a wonderful job in managing Covid. I live in TN and am super impressed with him. It’s not the unvaxxed dying. Alex Berenson posted some new studies today on substack, very interesting stuff.

Alex Berenson? What a super bizarre choice for Covid info.
“Very interesting stuff” isn’t anywhere close to very accurate stuff in this case, but perhaps you don’t care so much about that?

The Pandemic’s Wrongest Man

In a crowded field of wrongness, one person stands out: Alex Berenson.

amp.theatlantic.com

 

[PopsNole]

Tell us more about the supremacy clause being an independent grant of substantive powers to the federal gov't, as you did in other threads. Constitution > obscure circuit lottery in our legal system.

The obscure circuit lottery is what determines what is constitutional and what is not and the 6th Circuit decision overrides the 5th Circuit's stay because all the claims were consolidated in one court. I'm sorry you don't like it but that's how the system is setup and now the USSC will be the final arbiter.

 

[GeddyLee09]

This thread is entertaining. One person referred to this as the plague! Gold.

Clot shot was a good one too.

Or what about questioning sources then quoting Wikipedia and Facebook. Classic.

 

[SteveT1]

The obscure circuit lottery is what determines what is constitutional and what is not and the 6th Circuit decision overrides the 5th Circuit's stay because all the claims were consolidated in one court. I'm sorry you don't like it but that's how the system is setup and now the USSC will be the final arbiter.

Obscure circuit lottery determines which circuit to consolidate multidistrict challenges to agency action. SCOTUS will likely decide, and the 2 judge majority on the 6th circuit panel is likely to be overturned. Not complaining about the legal system. At all. This is unlikely to survive SCOTUS review. I think the rationale will echo the eviction moratorium opinion, and the Courts refusal to review state mandates is a big reason why. You’ll likely see “congress must make a clear statement” to displace state authority over vaccine mandates. If Congress passes such a law, I have significant doubts it could survive constitutional challenges after US v Lopez, NFIB, etc.

 

[MD81Nole]

Well Dr Robert Malone who invented the MRNA technology has joined with other drs to get truth out there. If everyone is vaccinated it won’t stop the spread. Also there is massive intel although from foreign countries on the truth that is being squelched by the mainstream media. India has totally irradicated the spread in one of the largest territories of 200 million people by distributing Ivermectin. Also natural immunity is being overlooked. Wonder why? Follow the money! I feel bad for your former employees.

Follow the money:

Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna making $1,000 profit every second: analysis

Pfizer, BioNTech and Moderna are making combined profits of $65,000 every minute from their highly successful COVID-19 vaccines while the world's poorest countries remain largely unvaccinated, according to a new analysis.

medicalxpress.com

 

[89nole]

Follow the money:

Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna making $1,000 profit every second: analysis

Pfizer, BioNTech and Moderna are making combined profits of $65,000 every minute from their highly successful COVID-19 vaccines while the world's poorest countries remain largely unvaccinated, according to a new analysis.

medicalxpress.com

Sorry not buying that at all.

 

[MD81Nole]

Sorry not buying that at all.

Why not? Last year the CEO of Pfizer gained $4B, Moderna $4.8B and BioNTech $8B. Also, look who is investing in these companies.

Federal lawmakers invest big in COVID-19 vaccine, treatment companies

At least 75 federal lawmakers held shares of the COVID-19 vaccine makers Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, or Pfizer in 2020, an Insider analysis found.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Dhersh]

Why not? Last year the CEO of Pfizer gained $4B, Moderna $4.8B and BioNTech $8B. Also, look who is investing in these companies.

Federal lawmakers invest big in COVID-19 vaccine, treatment companies

At least 75 federal lawmakers held shares of the COVID-19 vaccine makers Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, or Pfizer in 2020, an Insider analysis found.

www.businessinsider.com

Were the companies supposed to invest time and resources for free? Perhaps foot the bill themselves? Quite a silly argument.

 

[PopsNole]

Were the companies supposed to invest time and resources for free? Perhaps foot the bill themselves?

Capitalism is good unless companies make money on the vaccine they were told by the world to make. Then it's bad and suspicious.

 

[Dhersh]

Capitalism is good unless companies make money on the vaccine they were told by the world to make. Then it's bad and suspicious.

Right. Now I'm wondering why all these new-age anti-capitalists haven't paid their way to come up with a better solution themselves.

 

[MD81Nole]

Were the companies supposed to invest time and resources for free? Perhaps foot the bill themselves? Quite a silly argument.

Hey, I’m not anti-capitalist. I just think a lot of the hype and hysteria over Covid is made up for power and money. Sad thing it is our tax money that is generating the profits for these companies. Nothing is for free as many people seem to think the vaccines just magically appear. Also, it’s ironic that the lawmakers that push for all the mandates invest in these companies, follow the money,