2 women pass Ranger School, SEALs are next

[PoopandBoogers]

So 2 women passed Ranger school recently, supposedly under the same standards (but I've heard that they were given multiple recycles though, not sure if true or not.) I also wonder if they were actually allowed into the regiment, would they eventually be peered out? So anyway, now the Navy is going to open up combat arms including BUD/S.

Ranger school is one thing, but BUD/s is a whole nother animal. I'm sure there is some crossfit type girl that can give it a go, but if any pass, I'd be shocked. It will be interesting to see!

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/18/women-seals-greenert-losey-buds/31943243/

 

[Gonolz]

 

[FreeFlyNole]

The thing I remember about going through several of these types of schools is this. We used to have foreign students, some good, some bad. There was certainly a separate standard within the standard, if you know what I mean. These guys basically weren't allowed to fail, they could quit, but they couldn't fail.

I think in the case of these Rangerettes that was more likely than not the case. When you have 2 star generals walking patrol in mountain phase, and being told before the start of Florida phase that the POTUS is coming to graduation, there is a lot of pressure to not grade too hard, look the other way, maybe allow a few more minutes of sleep etc. Those chicks were gonna graduate one way or another.

It's pretty painful. When you actively dismantle the very institutions that are the foundation of your republic....what can I say other than buy the ticket, take the ride. Because the ride is coming.

 

[seminole97]

 

[maddog69]

Remember....everybody must get a trophy.

 

[LT4PLY]

They changed ranger school YEARS ago. It used to be you fail one section, you have to start back at the beginning if you want to try again. Many many years ago they changed to a whole new method. At the end of each section every student votes on the other students and the leaders vote as well. There are mandatory failures in each section. So even if your group is all super elite some will fail and have to redo that part of training. In this new method it's normal to fail a section or two because of this.

Personally I'm not surprised that women passed it. While ranger school is physical it's more about mind over matter and endurance. The muscular super strong guys usually fail while the average looking dudes end up making it.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

Free, I heard that about the president inre he already made plans months ago to attend graduation and that Generals and CSMs were on hand to watch (along with rumors of a gag order on the cadre and students), seems kinds fishy to me. I kinda feel sorry for these women because it seems as they are great soldiers and great women, but it feels forced as if they're being used to further a political feel good agenda.

The one thing that really shocked me was their bodies didn't shut down due to the starvation, since women need to carry more body fat then men. My dad went through it in the early seventies and lost 45 lbs, he looked like a concentration camp victim, my grandmother didn't even recognize him when he came up to them at the airport after graduating.

Another funny thing brought up was how these poor sacks that graduated with this class are gonna get hazed if they go to Batt. I would pay money to watch their first few days back.

 

[FreeFlyNole]

I just don't know what this world is coming too. Women Rangers? I can understand why the seal teams want a few women - somebody needs to help them with their hair and make up. I guess the next thing that's going to happen is theyre going to start teaching Marines how to read.

Where will it all end?

 

[OrlandNole]

Do the soldiers that do not pass get a participation trophy?

 

[wbnolefan]

ok I'll be the one to ask it...how are these soldiers supposed to deal with their monthly visitor?

 

[FSUTribe76]

ok I'll be the one to ask it...how are these soldiers supposed to deal with their monthly visitor?

Truthfully I'm not sure what the big deal is. You can go back to WW2 and look at the Russians. They had at least one female sniper who had a longer kill list than America's best male sniper. She even knocked out 26 Nazi snipers while working as a "countersniper", but killed 309 and probably well over 400 as to "confirm" the kill required the obtainment of dog tags something not always easily done.

http://famous101.com/famous-snipers-of-ww2

 

[BelemNole]

ok I'll be the one to ask it...how are these soldiers supposed to deal with their monthly visitor?

Here you go.

 

[West Duval Nole]

Truthfully I'm not sure what the big deal is. You can go back to WW2 and look at the Russians. They had at least one female sniper who had a longer kill list than America's best male sniper. She even knocked out 26 Nazi snipers while working as a "countersniper", but killed 309 and probably well over 400 as to "confirm" the kill required the obtainment of dog tags something not always easily done.

http://famous101.com/famous-snipers-of-ww2

She may have had more opportunity. Chris Kyle I believe had more kills than Carlos Hathcock, but he is still credited even by Kyle himself as being the best U.S. Sniper.

 

[nynole1]

Truthfully I'm not sure what the big deal is. You can go back to WW2 and look at the Russians. They had at least one female sniper who had a longer kill list than America's best male sniper. She even knocked out 26 Nazi snipers while working as a "countersniper", but killed 309 and probably well over 400 as to "confirm" the kill required the obtainment of dog tags something not always easily done.

http://famous101.com/famous-snipers-of-ww2

That clearly seems like apples and oranges to me.

 

[FSUTribe76]

She may have had more opportunity. Chris Kyle I believe had more kills than Carlos Hathcock, but he is still credited even by Kyle himself as being the best U.S. Sniper.

She did all of that in about a 10.5 month period. After she was almost killed by a mortar blast, the Soviets removed her from the front line and sent her on a PR mission to the US and Canada that was supposedly highly effective. So she became too high value as a PR tool to return to the front.

I am curious what the overall success rates were of female versus male snipers. She was not the only one, they had at least a dozen or so female snipers with over 100 kills. They had about 2,000 female snipers of which about 500 survived the war (which sounds bad on paper, but it's the Russians, they had units that had 2,000% casualty rates for the war i.e. start with 100 soldiers and by the end with all the replacements had 2000 killed).

 

[OrlandNole]

I don't think women would make good snipers. Their depth perception is all screwed up. We've been telling them that six inches is really ten inches.

 

[FSUTribe76]

That clearly seems like apples and oranges to me.

I showed that a woman survived for 10.5 months on the front lines in two of the biggest bloodbath battles that ever occurred and killed more than the best American sniper has ever done and that's unrelated? Seems to me it's very related. And she wasn't the only one, the Russians had thousands of women on the front lines and they frequently outdid or were equivalent to their male counterparts. As a matter of fact, the woman I first talked about had a higher kill ratio per time on the battlefield than their best male sniper Vasily Zaytsev, she was just taken back from the front sooner. And last I checked, Seals had snipers who fought on the front lines. If you mean women can't swim....yeah, you should look into that. There are plenty of professional women triathletes who do as much or more. The ONLY thing they don't have is that they would need training on pullups as the women don't develop as strong of shoulders and need to be trained to use their back on pullups to get them through the requirements.

 

[nynole1]

I showed that a woman survived for 10.5 months on the front lines in two of the biggest bloodbath battles that ever occurred and killed more than the best American sniper has ever done and that's unrelated? Seems to me it's very related. And she wasn't the only one, the Russians had thousands of women on the front lines and they frequently outdid or were equivalent to their male counterparts. As a matter of fact, the woman I first talked about had a higher kill ratio per time on the battlefield than their best male sniper Vasily Zaytsev, she was just taken back from the front sooner. And last I checked, Seals had snipers who fought on the front lines. If you mean women can't swim....yeah, you should look into that. There are plenty of professional women triathletes who do as much or more. The ONLY thing they don't have is that they would need training on pullups as the women don't develop as strong of shoulders and need to be trained to use their back on pullups to get them through the requirements.

I dated an Olympic swimmer during my time at FSU, so yeah, I am aware women can swim.

You were comparing a sniper to a Ranger, that's what I was referring to. One of my best friends was a Ranger and the things he said they did would seem extremely difficult for a woman to do, thats all.

 

[wbnolefan]

Here you go.

I regret clicking that

 

[PoopandBoogers]

I regret clicking that

 

[RangerNole]

There is a lot going on here that hopefully one day and sooner rather than later it all finally comes out; however the truth lies in the middle somewhere. Kudos to these 2 for not quitting (plenty of guys failed or did quit) but when you look at facts and then objectively compare the accomplishment to what all Ranger school graduates look like the 2 females would rate in the bottom 5%-10% of graduates. Again if you want to look at it through just 2 women graduated Ranger School then yes it is an amazing feat; however once you get into competitive selection for assignments in the most elite military units these 2 would likely not come close to making the cut as Ranger School graduation is a minimum qualification for leadership in all elite units. This whole experiment is really based on the desire for some in the DOD (mostly civilians who have never seen combat and some high ranking leaders who see a very big promotion if they play along) to get woman in all units in the military; it is called Combat Integration. So here are some facts for you

- The Army combed their entire force Active, Reserve and NG for close to 2 years to find female Soldiers willing to attempt Ranger School and found 134 females willing to try. Of the 134 only 19 actually could meet the requirements for Ranger School attendance. Of these 19 only 8 made it into the 1st phase (either failing or quitting, again yes plenty of dudes had the same issue).

- All of these 8 failed the 1st phase and were recycled; all due to failing patrols. Having 1 recycle is not unique it happens. I can't remember for sure because I went to Ranger School almost 30 years ago; but I believe that you were allowed 1 recycle period and in rare cases (like an injury) you may get a 2nd recycle as long as you completed that phase.

- Then the 8 recycled the 1st phase again and again they failed all their patrols.

- Some where given the option of a day 1 recycle; as well as several men too. Only 3 took this opportunity; not sure how many guys took the opportunity as well.

- In Ranger School you MUST have an even or better record on graded patrols. There are other factors on passing a phase but this is the big one.

- All the women passed phase 1 (Darby) the 3rd time and 2 of the woman passed Mountain phase; then the 2 passed Florida and will graduate Friday; with 1 getting a recycle in mountains as well.

- As far as all the rumors; Generals walking patrols when the women were graded, lower standards, President visit scheduled weeks before the class was scheduled to graduate etc. I have some decent sources and have my opinion; but like I said hopefully all the facts and truth will come out. I know the pressure on the cadre has been very intense; career ending intense if they speak up. I do know that I have not had positive confirmation about the President coming and I haven't really tried on that rumor. I will tell you that the odds are very good if a student makes it to Florida phase they will graduate, so if he does show up he could have just been playing the odds.

The whole thing is very political and I could write pages on what is going on with the Combat Integration concept. I will leave you with this opinion or fact however you want to look at it. If the DOD goal is gender neutral and women being allowed into any unit then why wasn't the first thing they changed the overall PT grading. If your goal really is for equality across the board then the first thing you would think to do is do away with age and gender scoring on the most basic physical fitness test. They have not doe that and there are no plans to do so.

 

[noleit]

I regret clicking that

Belem should be permabnned for that link.

 

[Gonolz]

Here you go.

Women like this were inspiration for a Rolling Stones album.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

Women like this were inspiration for a Rolling Stones album.

And Bon Jovi.

 

[West Duval Nole]

So I take it you have earned your red wings.

 

[FreeFlyNole]

 

[ponchfrog]

This is quite possibly the dumbest shit this administration has come up with! Women do not belong in Special Warfare! This is Special Warfare, not a place to conduct social experiments. There are just some things that the opposite sex should not attempt. To put it into simpler terms, there are no women playing in the NFL for a reason. It's too rough, and too violent! With all due respect to my friends who have played college and professional sports, it's simply a game played at a high level. It's not warfare and it's definitely not Special Warfare.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

This is quite possibly the dumbest shit this administration has come up with! Women do not belong in Special Warfare! This is Special Warfare, not a place to conduct social experiments. There are just some things that the opposite sex should not attempt. To put it into simpler terms, there are no women playing in the NFL for a reason. It's too rough, and too violent! With all due respect to my friends who have played college and professional sports, it's simply a game played at a high level. It's not warfare and it's definitely not Special Warfare.

Tell us how you really feel ponch. But seriously, do you see any female even making it out of Indoc? Just shooting from the hip, but I imagine the quality talent pool of badass, physically fit chics in the Navy is smaller than the Army. I also wonder if they will open up to female USMC candidates as well.

 

[ponchfrog]

We have been expecting this for a few months. They will most likely screen the first applicants from the Naval Academy. However, there will also be some crossfit women that may want to apply off the street as enlisted. The may pass the screening test and eventually will be admitted. This will open up a whole new problem set, berthing, showers, bathrooms, etc... BUD/s is not a 9-5 workday, it's more like 0430-2300. Then there is that whole Hell Week event that takes place. You are wet and sandy all day, every day. Once again, a whole new problem set when the opposite sex is brought in.
The questions is, when will they reduce the standards. Not if, it will happen simply to allow women to make it thru. As I said before, this is such bullshit!

 

[PoopandBoogers]

Well at least when the instructors yell "wipe the sand out of your vagina!" it might have some practicality.

 

[ponchfrog]

Nope, they will not be able to say things like that anymore. This is just wrong on so many levels.

 

[F4Gary]

This is quite possibly the dumbest shit this administration has come up with! Women do not belong in Special Warfare! This is Special Warfare, not a place to conduct social experiments. There are just some things that the opposite sex should not attempt. To put it into simpler terms, there are no women playing in the NFL for a reason. It's too rough, and too violent! With all due respect to my friends who have played college and professional sports, it's simply a game played at a high level. It's not warfare and it's definitely not Special Warfare.

I completely agree.

 

[FreeFlyNole]

We have been expecting this for a few months. They will most likely screen the first applicants from the Naval Academy. However, there will also be some crossfit women that may want to apply off the street as enlisted. The may pass the screening test and eventually will be admitted. This will open up a whole new problem set, berthing, showers, bathrooms, etc... BUD/s is not a 9-5 workday, it's more like 0430-2300. Then there is that whole Hell Week event that takes place. You are wet and sandy all day, every day. Once again, a whole new problem set when the opposite sex is brought in.
The questions is, when will they reduce the standards. Not if, it will happen simply to allow women to make it thru. As I said before, this is such bullshit!

It's pretty painful. When you actively dismantle the very institutions that are the foundation of your republic....what can I say other than buy the ticket, take the ride. Because the ride is coming.

I've never quoted myself in a thread before, but it just fits so nicely here.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

Here's the thing, the screening test is not that difficult for anyone that's already in great shape (swimmers, athletes, advanced crossfit types, triathletes). In my 20's I could smoke the screening test, and hell even in my late 30's after 4 weeks of bustin ass could score quite well, but... that ain't shit.

And I'm sure there are hundreds of crossfit chics that could smoke the screening as well, and no offense to the Darby course at Ranger school, but the bud/s ocourse looks like friggin insane. I'm out at the transfer rope! Anyway, just by passing the screening test, does not mean you can hack it all the way through.

Ponch, do you see any female making it through indoc into 1st phase?

 

[seminole97]

Nope, they will not be able to say things like that anymore. This is just wrong on so many levels.

You'll know its 'here' when they retire Old Misery...

 

[ponchfrog]

Here's the thing, the screening test is not that difficult for anyone that's already in great shape (swimmers, athletes, advanced crossfit types, triathletes). In my 20's I could smoke the screening test, and hell even in my late 30's after 4 weeks of bustin ass could score quite well, but... that ain't shit.

And I'm sure there are hundreds of crossfit chics that could smoke the screening as well, and no offense to the Darby course at Ranger school, but the bud/s ocourse looks like friggin insane. I'm out at the transfer rope! Anyway, just by passing the screening test, does not mean you can hack it all the way through.

Ponch, do you see any female making it through indoc into 1st phase?

View embedded media

It's going to depend on the standards and when they drop them, to what level will they drop them? Notice I didn't say if. This bullshit is a top down leadership(or lack thereof) event taking place. They want women to become members of Special Forces, they will ensure that the standards are set so that eventually one or two will finish. Hell Week is what gets most people that don't truly want to be there, if they haven't quit before then, they will by Monday night/Tuesday morning. People can quit either by saying "I quit" or by refusing to participate in an evolution aka "non-verbal DOR". What happens then is they are removed from training that very instant. What will happen when it is one of this administrations pet projects? Will they be able to continue? Will they be able to start again with the next class rather than wait 2 years to apply again like other quitters?
You guys know me, I don't talk about politics on here or Facebook. However, now politics are messing with something that they truly have no idea about. There is not one members from this staff that is a member of SOF. Trust me, I've worked with them and it is amazing just how clueless they are as to what we do.

This is a very bad idea and goes beyond "you go girl" feel good stories. This is about training to do the very best when things are the very worst to either save or take lives. This is not crossfit, this is warfare. Special Warfare to be more specific.

 

[nynole1]

It's going to depend on the standards and when they drop them, to what level will they drop them? Notice I didn't say if. This bullshit is a top down leadership(or lack thereof) event taking place. They want women to become members of Special Forces, they will ensure that the standards are set so that eventually one or two will finish. Hell Week is what gets most people that don't truly want to be there, if they haven't quit before then, they will by Monday night/Tuesday morning. People can quit either by saying "I quit" or by refusing to participate in an evolution aka "non-verbal DOR". What happens then is they are removed from training that very instant. What will happen when it is one of this administrations pet projects? Will they be able to continue? Will they be able to start again with the next class rather than wait 2 years to apply again like other quitters?
You guys know me, I don't talk about politics on here or Facebook. However, now politics are messing with something that they truly have no idea about. There is not one members from this staff that is a member of SOF. Trust me, I've worked with them and it is amazing just how clueless they are as to what we do.

This is a very bad idea and goes beyond "you go girl" feel good stories. This is about training to do the very best when things are the very worst to either save or take lives. This is not crossfit, this is warfare. Special Warfare to be more specific.

It's things like this that truly make me believe that this country's best days are behind it. Sometimes I feel like I am living in the damn Twilight Zone.

 

[seminole97]

My new motto is: Accelerate the Decline!

That's why I'm voting for Deez Nuts in 2016

 

[FreeFlyNole]

The Duffel Blog is usually spot on