I have a gun ONLY because of how easy it is to get a gun in this country
22+ killed in mass shooting in Maine
- Thread starter BrianNole777
- Start date
I have a gun ONLY because of how easy it is to get a gun in this country
Sad and scary. This is the type of thing better control and gun laws would prevent.
"I think the first thing to know is it's not that the gun somehow causes the suicide. So we know from lots of studies that having a gun in the home, for example, doesn't make someone more suicidal. It's that a gun is uniquely lethal in a suicide attempt. If someone uses a firearm, unfortunately, about 90 percent of the time, that person will die".
Criminals will get guns no matter what gun laws are enacted.
Common thread in all these shootings is mental illness. Any way to "red flag" those who have severe mental illness from obtaining a weapon?
Therein is the heart of the problem. You could confiscate every gun in the nation and guns would be smuggled into the nation...
Gun control seems a lot like the "war on drugs" or the "war on poverty", appears to be a futile endeavor.
We could make some more restrictive laws, maybe that helps, for example, no reason an 18 year old needs to have an AR-15... could extend the purchase age to 25 or something like that.
This is true but keeping guns out of the hands of those with known issues such as mental illness, domestic violence ect would be a good start. Extended waiting periods required training (more than a 2 hour class) and age restrictions are all measures which could help.
Removing guns from everyone just gives the criminals the upper hand IMO. Everyone becomes a potential soft target.
What seems to be obvious in this thread is that most favor some type of reasonable gun control. However there is a powerful lobbying organization the donates tens of millions of dollars to make sure that doesn't happen.
Powerful lobbying organizations don't work if the politicians don't listen.
I agree, but unfortunately, politicians listen to big donations
Don't disagree here. Give me your outline of reasonable gun control: (not just for DFS, but all on this thread)
Thats my point and not just one side or the other. Both sides are listening to them.
Is there a reason anyone needs an AR15? Acquiring a gun that powerful should be a process meant to weed most people out. You wanna buy a handgun to protect your family and home or a hunting rifle, not a big deal. You want to buy an AR you should need to apply for a license, take multiple gun safety courses, and have an extensive background check all at cost to you.
Their purpose of the second amendment was not to allow citizens to protect their homes from thieves and criminals. It was to provide a standing militia. In other words an army.
I'll bet every Israeli on October 7th wished he had an AR-15. Don't believe a violent well-armed crowd could never come here and attack an individual one day.
"The Second Amendment reads, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
....
"More than four decades later, in United States v. Schwimmer (1929), the Supreme Court cited the Second Amendment as enshrining that the duty of individuals “to defend our government against all enemies whenever necessity arises is a fundamental principle of the Constitution” and holding that “the common defense was one of the purposes for which the people ordained and established the Constitution.”
If our military is ever defeated in a local battle near you you're going to want your AR-15.
I'm also sure ever Ukrainian wishes they had an AR-15 now.
ok. If our army is ever defeated in battle near me im pretty sure we’re all screwed. Forming a militia in the 1700s was an actual thing that could happen and work, if you think in 2023 a handful of guys with ARs are going to resist an enemy force that defeated the US army you’re very delusional.
Right.
The 2nd Amendment was about militias, it wasn't about every random Joe in suburbia owning an AR-15.
Why is an ar15 considered powerful? It’s a 22. In some places it is not allowed to use a 22 for hunting because it is too weak. Ar 15s are popular because they look cool. That’s basically it. In an indoor environment I’d much prefer a handgun and a semi auto 45 is going to put a serious dent in someone wielding an ar15.
Hell, give me a shotgun against some crazy person with an ar indoors. I’ll make you famous.
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The entire army doesn't need to be defeated. It could just be a few guys coming into your suburb on a mission to take you or one of your friends out.
Who do you think the members of the militia were back in the 1700s? It was probably the equivalent of today's Southern Billy Bob. It was the equivalent of today's hunter. One of my good friends haunts and he has multiple guns including AR-15. He's damn sure willing to join a militia if his neighborhood or city was ever threatened.
Even in the 60s and 70s viet nam era, some of our southern boys preferred their personal guns to what the military provided.
I should say much more powerful than a handgun, and much larger magazine sizes with an ability to squeeze off shots way faster than the average hunting rifle.
You obviously live in a different reality than I do.
Not more powerful than a handgun. Also, not faster if both are semi automatic. Most are. Magazine size, sure. A hunting rifle, sure. Or a sniper rifle, sure. But, the latter is much more a “weapon of war” than an ar15. There’s no good reason, imo, to ban an ar15 versus say a handgun. Handgun is arguably more dangerous as it’s concealable. You don’t see gang bangers running around with ars typically.
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The militias were organized defense groups with muskets.
That's totally different than having every Joe in suburbia buy an AR-15 for himself.
Regardless of which weapon you’d personally choose, are you seriously claiming than an AR15 is not more powerful than a handgun?
If so, I foresee more editing and/or post deletion on your part because that’s simply insane, and contradicted by every article I’ve read.
I’ve also shot both weapons at ranges and even if the pistol is easier for precise targeting (as opposed to kamikaze spraying), it’s pretty obvious which is WAY more powerful… spoiler, it ain’t the 9mm handgun.
Wow.
And
Why semi-automatic rifles like those used in recent shootings can cause so much damage
Trauma specialists explained what the injuries look like, how they're treated and why they can be even more devastating for a child than an adult.
By comparison, an AR-15-style weapon has a muzzle energy of nearly 1,300 foot-pounds of force, meaning a high level of energy resulting in a greater impact.”
i said 45. Muzzle velocity isn’t the same as power. But, regardless, i also said indoors. Also, i said shotgun for power.Regardless of which weapon you’d personally choose, are you seriously claiming than an AR15 is not more powerful than a handgun?
If so, I foresee more editing and/or post deletion on your part because that’s simply insane, and contradicted by every article I’ve read.
I’ve also shot both weapons at ranges and even if the pistol is easier for precise targeting (as opposed to kamikaze spraying), it’s pretty obvious which is WAY more powerful… spoiler, it ain’t the 9mm handgun.
Wow.
And
Excerpt: “For example, a 9-millimeter handgun -- which the shooter carried into the school -- has a muzzle energy of between 300 and 400 foot-pounds of force.Why semi-automatic rifles like those used in recent shootings can cause so much damage
Trauma specialists explained what the injuries look like, how they're treated and why they can be even more devastating for a child than an adult.abc7.com
By comparison, an AR-15-style weapon has a muzzle energy of nearly 1,300 foot-pounds of force, meaning a high level of energy resulting in a greater impact.”
AR rifle ammunition is less powerful than most other rifle ammunition
According to "assault weapon" ban proponents, the AR rifle's lethality is all about how fast its bullets travel. The Washington Post recently claimed that
reason.com
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Btw, I am not a gun expert. What I know about guns is primarily via my father. I’ve been shooting a few times, skeet and paper targets. But, I’d be more worried about harming myself or someone unintentionally with a gun in my house than an intruder.Regardless of which weapon you’d personally choose, are you seriously claiming than an AR15 is not more powerful than a handgun?
If so, I foresee more editing and/or post deletion on your part because that’s simply insane, and contradicted by every article I’ve read.
I’ve also shot both weapons at ranges and even if the pistol is easier for precise targeting (as opposed to kamikaze spraying), it’s pretty obvious which is WAY more powerful… spoiler, it ain’t the 9mm handgun.
Wow.
And
Excerpt: “For example, a 9-millimeter handgun -- which the shooter carried into the school -- has a muzzle energy of between 300 and 400 foot-pounds of force.Why semi-automatic rifles like those used in recent shootings can cause so much damage
Trauma specialists explained what the injuries look like, how they're treated and why they can be even more devastating for a child than an adult.
By comparison, an AR-15-style weapon has a muzzle energy of nearly 1,300 foot-pounds of force, meaning a high level of energy resulting in a greater impact.”
My dad, on the other hand, was a green beret (viet nam vet) and got his first rifle when he was 8 years old. I grew up around guns. Guns are tools. The ar15 is a rifle. Sometimes you want a rifle. But, what makes it better than, say, an m1? Concealment and maneuverability are an advantage to pistols. I just don’t see how the ar15 is a special threat. Guns kill. It’s not like a 44 or a 45 caliber pistol is like shooting someone with rubber bullets.
There is absolutely nothing in the article you posted that supports your bogus claim that AR15s are NOT more powerful than handguns, whether 9mm or 45 or otherwise, unless you want to limit the definition of "power" only to impact on walls in whatever specific situation this one article references in one of its paragraphs.i said 45. Muzzle velocity isn’t the same as power. But, regardless, i also said indoors. Also, i said shotgun for power.
AR rifle ammunition is less powerful than most other rifle ammunition
According to "assault weapon" ban proponents, the AR rifle's lethality is all about how fast its bullets travel. The Washington Post recently claimed that
I don't think most of the discussion about the appropriateness of high capacity, high rate of fire weaponry in the hands of civilians is limited to impact on walls in one specific scenario. Weak sauce. Very weak sauce.
And no, deflecting to AR15s vs. other rifles doesn't somehow make your allegation which I was responding to that AR15s are not more powerful than handguns accurate.
The situation is important and a handgun can be a more powerful tool than a rifle. This is obvious. Otherwise, why would anyone ever use a handgun?
Regardless, the point is there’s nothing special about an ar15. As far as rifles go, it’s a pea shooter. Depending on the circumstance, a pistol is often the better choice.
Everything I’ve read suggests ARs fire bullets 2-3x faster than handguns causing significantly more damage to the target. Handguns also don’t have 20-30 round clips typically. There’s a reason most masa shootings involve ARs. Huge magazines and tons of damage done very quickly.
I guess if you want to redefine commonly understood words like "powerful" and limit the comparison to only those few situations that support your argument, you could throw out statements like "a gun is no more powerful than a knife" or "a tall QB is no more valuable than a short QB" or any other dubious allegation you wish just to see what kind of responses you can provoke. You've already told us that's your posting style, so my bad for responding.
Carry on.
You argue very poorly. Just, fyi. It would be better if you didn’t try to argue with me. You’ll get less frustrated. And, I’ll roll my eyes less. Win, win.
Lol. I know you don’t like it at all when your BS is called out as BS, but one way to lessen that is to post less BS, one glaring example being your ridiculous assertion in this thread that AR15s are no more powerful than handguns.
It takes no particular debating prowess to laugh that one into oblivion.
Enjoy yourself.
I don’t know, but I bet most mass shootings use a pistol, not an ar15 rifle. Most mass shootings aren’t the crazy person scenario. It’s gangs in urban areas or domestic violence .
Yes, rifles have bigger muzzle velocities and a semi automatic can fire fast. Many handguns also hold a lot of bullets and can be fired fast. There are also ways to load and reload fast. You could also carry two pistols and still be more concealed than walking around with a rifle. As far as rifles go, the ar15 isn’t special. It looks like an m16. It’s not fully automatic like a m16. Some people think that looks cool.
What are you proposing to ban? Semi automatic rifles? That’s a pretty big scope of weapons and a pistol or a couple of pistols still accomplishes the same goal. In my opinion, the thought process here just leads to banning all guns. In my opinion, that is the goal of the political groups advocating for “assault rifle” bans. They’re trying to get to a point where only the state can own guns.
I digress. Pistols are often a more powerful tool and are more often used in masa shootings than an ar15. For example, the event I’m most familiar with because I was finishing my graduate degree there and I taught classes in the building he did the most damage in is the Virginia Tech shooting. He killed 32 people and injured 17 with two handguns, one of which had a 10-round magazine and the other a 15-round magazine. He simply brought 19 extra magazines. That’s plenty powerful and in an indoor environment, arguably more potent. You think he would have been more successful with an AR15?
The VT case, like the Aurora shooting, is one where there were plenty of warning signs but little that could be done to prevent the eventual outcome. Mental illness was the driver and both of those shooters were smart people.
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