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I’ve been married twice (still married to 2nd).
I think a lot of people are in bad marriages. I don’t think infidelity is the reason for marriages ending so much as it is a symptom of a bad marriage. I think people stay in bad marriages because of social contract and complications associated with that. Kids. Money. Intermingled social circles. Concepts of marriage and obligation.
My first wife “cheated” at the end. She initially asked for divorce, changed her mind and I filed. I didn’t file because she cheated. I filed because the marriage was absolutely horrible and with her out of the house for a couple weeks and with some time for me to assess the situation, I concluded that it was unrecoverable. Now 12 years removed, I dont regret divorcing her in the slightest. I do regret the amount of time I spent with her. That was poorly spent life energy. And time is amongst our most precious assets. I got very lucky in a sense. I had no children with her so there was really nothing binding me to her. We had already separated our social circles largely. And we didn’t run in the same professional crowds. And now don’t live anywhere near each other. I had and have no reason to ever interact with this person again. No one that I encounter knows her and if they did they wouldn’t know about me likely (aside from my family and some old friends).
There are some stereotypes I sought to avoid in my second run. Sex. I didn’t want to be the only one who wanted it. Pushed for it. And so on. Temperament. I didn’t see the point to having my wife be the meanest person in my world to me (1st marriage).
So, I had a few important things I looked for in dating. Bouncy. I wanted someone who was genuinely happy and had energy for the world, who snapped back from and didn’t dwell in bad moods for long. No complaining about me, my behavior, my friends, or my interests, my family (brother and parents) ever for any reason. No arguing. No figting. No bs. I don’t do any of those things with my friends. In the dating phase, when it’s just supposed to be fun, why would you accept that? Also... fun. Fearless.
So, I am now moving into my 8th year with my 2nd wife. Have two kids. It’s a fantastic relationship. I feel very lucky to have it.
I think a lot of people are in bad marriages. I don’t think infidelity is the reason for marriages ending so much as it is a symptom of a bad marriage. I think people stay in bad marriages because of social contract and complications associated with that. Kids. Money. Intermingled social circles. Concepts of marriage and obligation.
My first wife “cheated” at the end. She initially asked for divorce, changed her mind and I filed. I didn’t file because she cheated. I filed because the marriage was absolutely horrible and with her out of the house for a couple weeks and with some time for me to assess the situation, I concluded that it was unrecoverable. Now 12 years removed, I dont regret divorcing her in the slightest. I do regret the amount of time I spent with her. That was poorly spent life energy. And time is amongst our most precious assets. I got very lucky in a sense. I had no children with her so there was really nothing binding me to her. We had already separated our social circles largely. And we didn’t run in the same professional crowds. And now don’t live anywhere near each other. I had and have no reason to ever interact with this person again. No one that I encounter knows her and if they did they wouldn’t know about me likely (aside from my family and some old friends).
There are some stereotypes I sought to avoid in my second run. Sex. I didn’t want to be the only one who wanted it. Pushed for it. And so on. Temperament. I didn’t see the point to having my wife be the meanest person in my world to me (1st marriage).
So, I had a few important things I looked for in dating. Bouncy. I wanted someone who was genuinely happy and had energy for the world, who snapped back from and didn’t dwell in bad moods for long. No complaining about me, my behavior, my friends, or my interests, my family (brother and parents) ever for any reason. No arguing. No figting. No bs. I don’t do any of those things with my friends. In the dating phase, when it’s just supposed to be fun, why would you accept that? Also... fun. Fearless.
So, I am now moving into my 8th year with my 2nd wife. Have two kids. It’s a fantastic relationship. I feel very lucky to have it.
Bandit, great story. You're lucky but I'll tell you what- so is your wife. Count your blessings!
You're in the age group of men who are attractive to cougars- you know that, right?
Especially if you're even somewhat financially okay, you're a target.
Bottom line, don't settle for just anyone!
I was talking to my wife about this. Man, I don't know if it's just because I have little kids and a fairly tight work schedule, but even if I wanted to cheat, I just don't have the time or the energy. You know how much energy it takes to cultivate a relationship with a woman. Dude, I barely have time to do the basic hobbies that I really enjoy doing. Much less trying to find time to sneak off with another woman and all the BS that would go along with that.
On the other hand we started talking about my God mother, this woman kind of helped raise me through my teenage years and in my early 20s and we have had a really good relationship my whole life. She had some rough times with her husband and we were talking about it, and she had some evidence that he had been going to Asian massage parlors, you know places where you get more than a massage.
She was bent about it, but I defended the guy, I asked her; "Okay, when is the last time you slept with him? When is the last time you gave him a hand job?" She was "ah, ah, ah...." It had been a year.
I told her that was her fault then, If the guy is 50 and very fit and still has a libido and you're not making an effort to satisfy that and he only goes out and gets a happy ending now an then, that's a good guy who doesn't want to get divorced, and doesn't want to leave you, but it's a guy with human needs that need to be met. A man can only beat off so much.
They are in a much better place now, but I think she took that to heart. I think there is quite a difference in the pure physical act and carrying on another relationship.
I have a couple of friends who haven't has sex with their wives in years for one reason or another. What do you expect a guy to do at that point? Is divorce imminent? A lot of guys would do nearly anything, including staying nearly celibate to keep their family together.
On the other hand we started talking about my God mother, this woman kind of helped raise me through my teenage years and in my early 20s and we have had a really good relationship my whole life. She had some rough times with her husband and we were talking about it, and she had some evidence that he had been going to Asian massage parlors, you know places where you get more than a massage.
She was bent about it, but I defended the guy, I asked her; "Okay, when is the last time you slept with him? When is the last time you gave him a hand job?" She was "ah, ah, ah...." It had been a year.
I told her that was her fault then, If the guy is 50 and very fit and still has a libido and you're not making an effort to satisfy that and he only goes out and gets a happy ending now an then, that's a good guy who doesn't want to get divorced, and doesn't want to leave you, but it's a guy with human needs that need to be met. A man can only beat off so much.
They are in a much better place now, but I think she took that to heart. I think there is quite a difference in the pure physical act and carrying on another relationship.
I have a couple of friends who haven't has sex with their wives in years for one reason or another. What do you expect a guy to do at that point? Is divorce imminent? A lot of guys would do nearly anything, including staying nearly celibate to keep their family together.
Yeah, I have a wife and two kids and am happy to get the kids to bed so I can veg on the sofa most nights. I can barely rally to go out to eat, let alone carry on a clandestine affair. It's enough to disappoint one woman, let alone two.
I wonder why people divorce at such what seems to be a high rate as well; basically 50% of society and you have to figure there is % that would divorce if they could? I think part of it is easier than working things out and more so over the last few decades we have become a less committed and more throw away society in not just marriage, but many other things. I think the media influence has some effect; if you watch TV today everyone is having affairs, everyone is having sex and having it everywhere; while you would hope that people see these shows for just shows, I think it has been proven that a lot of people believe what they see in TV shows as reality.
I will also say this I wonder how much people actually talk before marriage about what they want, how they see their life going etc.
My wife and I dated for roughly 9 months and were married; I asked her to marry me 4 months after we started dating and we have been married over 21 years. When we first met and started dating it was around the Holidays and I went to DC to stay with a friend who was married and being the 3rd wheel made things not as fun, so I flew her up to hang with us for a week and we drove home together, roughly 10-12 hour drive back. During the drive we literally discussed everything about life; how many kids do you want, how would you raise your kids, thoughts on how you viewed divorce, how you should work out problems, you name it we discussed it. It was like months of dating in 1/2 a day. Certainly some big topics for 2 people who had been dating less than 45 days; although I was 29 and she was 26 so we were older. In the end we realized we had a lot of the same opinions and thoughts on things, now we still dated for a while before the big commitment; but we felt like we really knew each other well. Not to say we haven't had ups and downs; but nothing earth shattering. We have also been through some really stressful events in life. 10 family deaths in less than 3 years, a war as well as many other things and while these things sucked we went through them together and grew stronger because of it. We are by no means the marriage example or something like that but through everything communications has always been a key component of our marriage.
By the way, there are worse things than cheating. I know sometimes here I come off as a men’s rights kind of guy, or, at least I argue more
than one perspective. My ex-wife was from a wealthy family. She knew how to behave. I had a marriage is forever position and also some notions of chivalry. Never hit a woman. Be respectful, polite, etc. we met young (19). I got to watch borderline personality disorder develop up close and personal. I was called some form of dick a hole or whatever most days of my marriage. I’ve been hit, spit at, had my things broken, bleeding injuries and multi hour inescapable one way arguments more times than I can remember. In the midst of attacking me, she’d hit herself and threaten to call the cops. Completely irrational. But, cleaned up very nicely. No way anyone would believe any of that. I barely believed it much of the time. It was such a magnificent dichotomy.
Anyway, you’d wonder why would someone put up with that, even once? For me, I never felt weak. I never felt like I was particularly not in control. I didn’t perceive that she was a threat to me , early. She was athletic, worked out and kept herself in good shape, but so was I and I am a guy and I had 70 pounds on her. At any time, physically I could have ended any altercation. I never did, of course. But, the degradation was so insidious and gradual, like a frog in slowly boiling water. It took a while for me to understand the situation, truly, to understand my role and what was happening. To stop making excuses for stress and other intervening life factors. In retrospect, I suppose it was an interesting experience.
than one perspective. My ex-wife was from a wealthy family. She knew how to behave. I had a marriage is forever position and also some notions of chivalry. Never hit a woman. Be respectful, polite, etc. we met young (19). I got to watch borderline personality disorder develop up close and personal. I was called some form of dick a hole or whatever most days of my marriage. I’ve been hit, spit at, had my things broken, bleeding injuries and multi hour inescapable one way arguments more times than I can remember. In the midst of attacking me, she’d hit herself and threaten to call the cops. Completely irrational. But, cleaned up very nicely. No way anyone would believe any of that. I barely believed it much of the time. It was such a magnificent dichotomy.
Anyway, you’d wonder why would someone put up with that, even once? For me, I never felt weak. I never felt like I was particularly not in control. I didn’t perceive that she was a threat to me , early. She was athletic, worked out and kept herself in good shape, but so was I and I am a guy and I had 70 pounds on her. At any time, physically I could have ended any altercation. I never did, of course. But, the degradation was so insidious and gradual, like a frog in slowly boiling water. It took a while for me to understand the situation, truly, to understand my role and what was happening. To stop making excuses for stress and other intervening life factors. In retrospect, I suppose it was an interesting experience.
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LOL! The lockerroomers are just more intelligent than Dan's friend they don't brag about it in person to anyone much less on some random internet board! And well if they are cheating, you think lying on a message board would be beyond them?
You're lucky she didn't Gone Girl you.
I suppose if that type of stuff is going down around the house in this modern era, you could secretly video it, in case things ever involved the police, you'd have some ammo in the backpocket to prove she's got a violent temper and isn't some sweet angel who'd never hurt a fly.
I think the attempts at gaslighting were probably the most difficult thing to deal with. Couldn’t agree on objective reality, much less anything sibjective. It’s very dangerous to be involved in this kind of relationship regardless of your physical superiority.
A friend of mine just got divorced for this reason. Wife was having sex with him basically 1-2 times a year and that dwindled to nothing. They didn’t fight. Got along well. But, she was basically a roommate forcing him to lead a completely celibate lifestyle. The end.
Free..another great post.
I wouldn’t be judging the guy so hard if he wasn’t building a relationship and being incredibly manipulative. Also, this relationship keeps him from being hone. He tells his wife that he’s working on a project at work and won’t be home until 10ish; but I’m actuality he’s at her house having dinner and doing whatever.
Man....your godmothers husband owes you a big one.
And I'm on the same page as you. If he said he was calling an escort service 3 or 4 times a year, it probably wouldn't bother me.
But the whole relationship thing is too much. To him, this is not about the sex, the sex is confirmation that he's doing a good job. The real thrill for him is the game of lies and seeing just how far he can take it. It's like the charatistic of a serial killer to be honest.
Even this weekend, he was hitting on everything that had a pair of tits and two legs. Which typically I would laugh at, but after all the stories and layers of lies he was living, it was just weirding me out watching him hit on these girls.
Question:
At that point, if life is good other than sexlife and (hypothetically) there are some elementary/middle school age kids involved, is it worth divorcing over or just having an adult conversation about fulfilling needs outside of the house as a last ditch effort before severing ties.
They do have a daughter in elementary school. And they did have the latter conversation multiple tines. I think, in that situation, I might consider an open marriage request, of just sucking it up and living with it for the sake of the kid. To me, the child is more important in that situation.
My dad used to brag to me about the women he had on the side.
I really don't understand how he thought that was good parenting. I guess he thought he was just being one of the boys.
He and my mom were married for 60 years up until the day he died.
I really don't understand how he thought that was good parenting. I guess he thought he was just being one of the boys.
He and my mom were married for 60 years up until the day he died.
I wonder about this too. Frankly, this is how it was dealt with for hundreds of years, right? Maybe without the conversation though.
I'm not saying that was right...but I wonder who really wins in the modern outcome?
I wonder what the problem was. Many women have just as much or more sexual drive than men. Did he suspect she was perhaps getting it elsewhere?
Well I have been busy with travel/meetings and work stuff so haven't been able to check in here. My goodness this thread delivers. Thanks all.
Interesting conversation. I am interested to see how social media continues to impact marriage. The continual bombardment of life highlights from everyone you know has the potential for major changes to the perception of marriage and life in general. I am in a great marriage but its hard work- as people to continue to only share the great, I believe people will start to look around even more when their lives are anything but a fairy tale.
I also think the quick connections we have to some many people (including people from our past) will lower marriage success rates even more. I have had multiple exes from FSU or my early 20's connect with me on social media sites- one even DM'd me when I posted a picture in her town, asking if I wanted to get a drink.
I also think the quick connections we have to some many people (including people from our past) will lower marriage success rates even more. I have had multiple exes from FSU or my early 20's connect with me on social media sites- one even DM'd me when I posted a picture in her town, asking if I wanted to get a drink.
The thing is a lot of these conversations are very centered around our Puritanical American culture and social norms we are accustomed too. If you look in the Arab world, plural marriage for men is the norm.
I worked for several years in South America and it was very very common for the businessmen that I was working with to have a wife, who was the matriarch of the family and the one they took out in public, but to have a college aged side girlfriend that they "were helping through school" that would go out with them after hours, that they would keep up in an apartment etc. It was just standard operating procedure. There were times when I'd meet them and their wife for dinner, and then meet them at a later night bar for a nightcap with their girlfriend. Everyone just understood that was the way it went down.
All in all polyamourous relationships are becoming more common everywhere, I doubt my wife would go for it though, I can't even get her to let me hire a young Swedish nanny.
I worked for several years in South America and it was very very common for the businessmen that I was working with to have a wife, who was the matriarch of the family and the one they took out in public, but to have a college aged side girlfriend that they "were helping through school" that would go out with them after hours, that they would keep up in an apartment etc. It was just standard operating procedure. There were times when I'd meet them and their wife for dinner, and then meet them at a later night bar for a nightcap with their girlfriend. Everyone just understood that was the way it went down.
All in all polyamourous relationships are becoming more common everywhere, I doubt my wife would go for it though, I can't even get her to let me hire a young Swedish nanny.
The ones that puzzle me are the Dear Abby-type pleas involving a husband who is (allegedly) entirely uninterested in sex.
I can only assume the husband is not interested in women, or the woman is no longer attractive to the husband or he's busy on the side. No men are that tired or that preoccupied with work. We will make the time.
I can only assume the husband is not interested in women, or the woman is no longer attractive to the husband or he's busy on the side. No men are that tired or that preoccupied with work. We will make the time.
I wouldn't go as far as to say None. As there are always exceptions to the rule. And I would say that it isn't just men, I think most women will make the time too. I though am like you and would assume that he or she is busy on the side.
No.
She was a lawyer, a bit uptight and anxious. I would bet she was so focused on job and daughter that she just didn’t think about it. Low libido.
He’s a much more social person, fairly attractive and women were openly flirtatious with him basically everywhere. I think the combination was bad for him, as he had sexuality thrown in his face basically all the time and was completely unable to get his wife to be interested. Seemed to be driving him nuts. I get it, but I don’t think I could leave with a 7 year old daughter in the house and given that’s the relationship was stable and worked well in all other aspects.
So how long have they been divorced? Just curious if now all of a sudden she is dating or has a boyfriend that perhaps happens to be another lawyer or judge?
I have been that tired like twice in my life time. Just dead on your feet, need nothing other than rest, even more than food. Running on fumes after two days straight of work. But agree, minuscule exceptions.
The wife may need to see her GYN. Unless she's menopausal there is no reason for not "being interested". Unless hubby is a total dud in that department. Honesty is needed on both sides.
Lots of stuff in this thread since my last visit.
First things first. For 1st marriages the divorce rate isn't anywhere near 50%. It's closer to 30%. And for a college educated woman who gets married after 25 years old and has a job it drops down to 20%.
So while there are a lot of divorces out there - they tend to be the same people doing them over and over again.
Second, I know lots of people with marriages with different sexual circumstances that are doing fine. One couple hasn't had sex in years. They weren't doing it that much before hand and stopped after the last kid. Another couple does it about once a month - and they've been married about 3 years. He's got no complaints. That's just what they do. Everyone's different, what's important is that you find someone that matches your needs/desires. But assuming everyone has an engine running as hot as yours is dumb.
The trouble comes later in the marriage when those things change. Things like menopause or prescription drugs will change peoples libido. Will you toss away a lifetime together because you feel you deserve to have someone grind against you whether they feel like it or not?
First things first. For 1st marriages the divorce rate isn't anywhere near 50%. It's closer to 30%. And for a college educated woman who gets married after 25 years old and has a job it drops down to 20%.
So while there are a lot of divorces out there - they tend to be the same people doing them over and over again.
Second, I know lots of people with marriages with different sexual circumstances that are doing fine. One couple hasn't had sex in years. They weren't doing it that much before hand and stopped after the last kid. Another couple does it about once a month - and they've been married about 3 years. He's got no complaints. That's just what they do. Everyone's different, what's important is that you find someone that matches your needs/desires. But assuming everyone has an engine running as hot as yours is dumb.
The trouble comes later in the marriage when those things change. Things like menopause or prescription drugs will change peoples libido. Will you toss away a lifetime together because you feel you deserve to have someone grind against you whether they feel like it or not?
No cougars....For men, the perfect age is half your age plus 7. As far as being financially OK, this is the locker room!!! On the other hand, I will not be dating anybody who is not capable of supporting themselves. Most of the women I have been dating have been 2-3 years older up to 7 years younger. Most within a year or two of me.
On one of the dating sites, I met a lady who lived in Landis Hall the same year I did when we were freshmen. Her sorority was around the corner from my fraternity and she later lived in the apartment complex behind my fraternity house. That one didn't pan out...strange because she was the one pursuing me then out of the blue "ghosted" after her previous text said she can't wait to get together when she gets back in town. The next text three days later was "we are not a fit". Such is the world of online dating.
A couple of weeks ago I started a conversation with a lady in North Palm Peach about 2.5 hours away. We found out we went to the same high school, the same middle school a year apart, my mom and her mom were friends, I had been in her house when I was a child, her mom was the realtor who sold my grandfather his house and we both went to the same church in Miami at different times. We agreed to get together if either of us is in the same town, but I am thinking of making the drive.
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******
I have a couple of friends who haven't has sex with their wives in years for one reason or another. What do you expect a guy to do at that point? Is divorce imminent? A lot of guys would do nearly anything, including staying nearly celibate to keep their family together.
*******
That was the worst part of the divorce. The destruction of the family. The instant empty nest. The not seeing kids sometimes when they come into town. I knew the marriage wasn't great, but I have friends who are not in great marriages. By the time I realized that it was actually at risk, it was too late. I never thought that it couldn't be salvaged. My ex never mentioned the actual word divorce until she emailed me from out of town telling me that she had filed for divorce. Neither of us were good at dealing with conflict and we both did it in different ways.
Then there is the alimony. My ex is very talented but chooses to work part time in a low paying field. She has two masters degrees including an MBA and many years of corporate experience. She can be free from me, but I can't be free from her. One out of every three days, I work solely for her. She can be free from me, but I can't be free from her. My attorney said I was getting a good settlement, and I had to trust my attorney. Fortunately no lifetime alimony.
As I said, divorce laws are onerous. A female co-worker had to fork over half her retirement to her bum/deadbeat ex who used to hold the same job as her. Then he quit and did nothing. Several years later they divorced.
I have a couple of friends who haven't has sex with their wives in years for one reason or another. What do you expect a guy to do at that point? Is divorce imminent? A lot of guys would do nearly anything, including staying nearly celibate to keep their family together.
*******
That was the worst part of the divorce. The destruction of the family. The instant empty nest. The not seeing kids sometimes when they come into town. I knew the marriage wasn't great, but I have friends who are not in great marriages. By the time I realized that it was actually at risk, it was too late. I never thought that it couldn't be salvaged. My ex never mentioned the actual word divorce until she emailed me from out of town telling me that she had filed for divorce. Neither of us were good at dealing with conflict and we both did it in different ways.
Then there is the alimony. My ex is very talented but chooses to work part time in a low paying field. She has two masters degrees including an MBA and many years of corporate experience. She can be free from me, but I can't be free from her. One out of every three days, I work solely for her. She can be free from me, but I can't be free from her. My attorney said I was getting a good settlement, and I had to trust my attorney. Fortunately no lifetime alimony.
As I said, divorce laws are onerous. A female co-worker had to fork over half her retirement to her bum/deadbeat ex who used to hold the same job as her. Then he quit and did nothing. Several years later they divorced.
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So I was just texting with him about his share of the Ab&b we got over the weekend, of course he never gave me his share before he left.
Anyhow, he brings up through text that he is having his girlfriend and her husband come over for lunch Sunday to meet his wife and kids. He said that if he can make his wife just think that are good friends he won’t question him talking to her..wow
Sadly I’ve seen this happen before. Wasn’t near as close to the situation. But I know a girl who befriended the wife of a guy she was having an affair with, she became best friends with her....friggin psycho
Anyhow, he brings up through text that he is having his girlfriend and her husband come over for lunch Sunday to meet his wife and kids. He said that if he can make his wife just think that are good friends he won’t question him talking to her..wow
Sadly I’ve seen this happen before. Wasn’t near as close to the situation. But I know a girl who befriended the wife of a guy she was having an affair with, she became best friends with her....friggin psycho
So, I'm guesstimating your age at about 55? Half your age plus 7 is about 35. OMG. A lot to unpack there, but best of luck.
I think you make some good points, and your first paragraph tends to reinforce statistics about couples who are financially stable as well.
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