Air Force nerds help

[Red Hills Nole]

What is all this hubbub about the U.S./NATO sending and or allowing F-16's to Ukraine?
While a fine aircraft it is hardly a frontline fighter such as even the "old" f-15's or dassault mirages much less Our f-22, f-35 or Rafales.

 

[noletaire]

I'd send them an entire esquedrille of Fokker Dr. I

 

[overthemoon]

I'd send them an entire esquedrille of Fokker Dr. I

Red Baron is on the runway revving up!

 

[fsufool]

What is all this hubbub about the U.S./NATO sending and or allowing F-16's to Ukraine?
While a fine aircraft it is hardly a frontline fighter such as even the "old" f-15's or dassault mirages much less Our f-22, f-35 or Rafales.

Politics, not the airplane. F-16 has a functional range of 500 miles roughly the distance between Kiev and Moscow.....

 

[goldmom]

Isn’t there also a good amount of time needed to train the pilots to fly them as well as their mechanics trained to keep them operational?
It’s not like we can fly them in to Ukraine and turn over the keys.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

We have already sent a staggering amount of aid to Ukraine. Meanwhile, lots of very serious problems linger here. Where are the European allies in all of this? I think we have already done more than our fair share to help Ukraine.

Not our monkeys, not our circus. Does that apply here?

 

[goldmom]

The Poles are providing F16’s. They certainly understand why it’s dangerous to have Russia next door.
Correction they’re sending MIGs and Ukrainian pilots are already familiar with them.

 

[noletaire]

We have already sent a staggering amount of aid to Ukraine. Meanwhile, lots of very serious problems linger here. Where are the European allies in all of this? I think we have already done more than our fair share to help Ukraine.

Not our monkeys, not our circus. Does that apply here?

cui bono?
war=profits. U.S. arms industries making a bundle over this conflict.

 

[BrianNole777]

We have already sent a staggering amount of aid to Ukraine. Meanwhile, lots of very serious problems linger here. Where are the European allies in all of this? I think we have already done more than our fair share to help Ukraine.

Not our monkeys, not our circus. Does that apply here?

We spend $780 billion a YEAR on military here.

Sending Ukraine $80 billion or more to defeat Putin is a great deal.

We spent $2.3 TRILLION in Afghanistan, by comparison.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

We spend $780 billion a YEAR on military here.

Sending Ukraine $80 billion or more to defeat Putin is a great deal.

We spent $2.3 TRILLION in Afghanistan, by comparison.

We left some staggering amount of military equipment in Afghanistan. Should tell Ukraine to pick up there whatever they want.

American supplies of military “stuff” are very low as we continue to give key assets to Ukraine. Smart? I guess we will find out.

 

[BrianNole777]

We left some staggering amount of military equipment in Afghanistan. Should tell Ukraine to pick up there whatever they want.

American supplies of military “stuff” are very low as we continue to give key assets to Ukraine. Smart? I guess we will find out.

The Taliban has It now.

Beating Putin is costing America peanuts. It's a true bargain.

Please read this:

It’s Costing Peanuts for the US to Defeat Russia

The cost-benefit analysis of US support for Ukraine is incontrovertible. It’s producing wins at almost every level.

cepa.org

 

[fsufool]

The Poles are providing F16’s. They certainly understand why it’s dangerous to have Russia next door.

I actually think they are giving them MIG 29s

 

[Kahunanole]

Poles are buying F-35’s to replace the MiGs they’re giving Ukraine. Several NATO countries helped fund the research and development of the F-35.

 

[rtpnole]

We left some staggering amount of military equipment in Afghanistan. Should tell Ukraine to pick up there whatever they want.

American supplies of military “stuff” are very low as we continue to give key assets to Ukraine. Smart? I guess we will find out.

Didn’t we leave that military equipment in the hands of the Afghan army? Who then pretty much quit? Couple that with the footage of a bunch of guys chasing our military plane down the tarmac and you have an unwinnable war. Shouldn’t those guys have been in uniform firing at the Taliban? Like the Ukrainians firing at the Russians? Give them what they need.

 

[noletaire]

Didn’t we leave that military equipment in the hands of the Afghan army? Who then pretty much quit?

Why'd they quit?? We learned nothing from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
The old maxim: "Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it" holds true here. The fact that we were in Afghanistan under successive Republican and Democrat administrations is telling indicator of the nature of the two party system.

 

[F4Gary]

cui bono?
war=profits. U.S. arms industries making a bundle over this conflict.

I think a bunch of our politicians are too....

 

[74Seminole]

Rather support Ukraine sooner rather than later. The war could be over by now were we to send what they need early rather than playing the political game and sending it later.

 

[MagNoleA]

Isn’t there also a good amount of time needed to train the pilots to fly them as well as their mechanics trained to keep them operational?
It’s not like we can fly them in to Ukraine and turn over the keys.

That is an excellent point!

 

[rtpnole]

Why'd they quit?? We learned nothing from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
The old maxim: "Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it" holds true here. The fact that we were in Afghanistan under successive Republican and Democrat administrations is telling indicator of the nature of the two party system.

Interesting that we helped create that past by arming the mujahideen to attack the Russians. Charlie Wilson’s War. The Taliban are crazy but they do fight.

 

[GeddyLee09]

What is all this hubbub about the U.S./NATO sending and or allowing F-16's to Ukraine?
While a fine aircraft it is hardly a frontline fighter such as even the "old" f-15's or dassault mirages much less Our f-22, f-35 or Rafales.

Poland will send MIG’s to Ukraine along with Slovakia. Ukrainian pilots and maintenance people are already trained so it’s just a plus up. F-16’s to Ukraine would be touchy and if it happened would be a scaled down older block aircraft.
As far as it being hardly front line that’s not really true. As a air defense fighter yes it’s not top of the line but in a CAS role or the preferred Weasel role it’s still a front line aircraft. Any mission into enemy territory would contain a mixed package of 35, 22, 15 and 16 aircraft among others. The F16 role in that case would be taking out enemy SAM sites and Close Air Support of ground troops and downed aircraft.

 

[goldmom]

Interesting that we helped create that past by arming the mujahideen to attack the Russians. Charlie Wilson’s War. The Taliban are crazy but they do fight.

Yeah they fight. They drag women to the public square and unload a gun to the back of their head. Real bad asses.

 

[noletaire]

Interesting that we helped create that past by arming the mujahideen to attack the Russians. Charlie Wilson’s War. The Taliban are crazy but they do fight.

Stinger missiles eliminated the air superiority the soviets had.

We had 10+ years to get inside the mind of the mujahideen. Clear that their loyalty is to themselves, and in particular their clan. We should've left the nation years ago, and once Bushie Jr. destroyed the Al-Qaeda camps, we should've left... A 20 year campaign was beyond folly.

 

[noletaire]

Yeah they fight. They drag women to the public square and unload a gun to the back of their head. Real bad asses.

Exactly. A good case in point that negates the idea that somehow we can "westernize" that nation. You can westernize Kabul, outside of that, forget it.
It is a great place for perpetual war, though.... wonder who benefits from that?

 

[rtpnole]

I hope/think we can all agree it’s best that we’re gone. Extremists don’t change their spots even if they’re ‘useful’ in the short term.

 

[MagNoleA]

Yeah they fight. They drag women to the public square and unload a gun to the back of their head. Real bad asses.

Now I know where to find Johnny Baaad Ass. I didn't realize the public square was a hot bed for drag women. Who knew? To each his own. I guess.

 

[QuaZ2002]

Didn’t we leave that military equipment in the hands of the Afghan army? Who then pretty much quit? Couple that with the footage of a bunch of guys chasing our military plane down the tarmac and you have an unwinnable war. Shouldn’t those guys have been in uniform firing at the Taliban? Like the Ukrainians firing at the Russians? Give them what they need.

Watch the doc Escape from Kabul. It’s heart wrenching. The afghan army were true cowards. The whole Afghan “war” was a complete and utter waste of time and we should have known it sooner. The Taliban took the entire country back within days. Pathetic.

 

[BrianNole777]

Watch the doc Escape from Kabul. It’s heart wrenching. The afghan army were true cowards. The whole Afghan “war” was a complete and utter waste of time and we should have known it sooner. The Taliban took the entire country back within days. Pathetic.

Yep. We armed the Afghani military to the teeth and spent $2.3 trillion when we should have gone in, killed AL Qaeda and the Taliban and then left, IMO.

Afghanistan is a primitive tribal society we can't remake in our image.

 

[GeddyLee09]

We have already sent a staggering amount of aid to Ukraine. Meanwhile, lots of very serious problems linger here. Where are the European allies in all of this? I think we have already done more than our fair share to help Ukraine.

Not our monkeys, not our circus. Does that apply here?

This is a chance to depose a dictator without being directly involved ourselves. As for the European help it is going to be as minimal as possible as always except maybe from the countries that were behind the iron curtain. Europe will complain about Russia and the US then ask the US for help when it benefits them.

 

[Red Hills Nole]

This is a chance to depose a dictator without being directly involved ourselves. As for the European help it is going to be as minimal as possible as always except maybe from the countries that were behind the iron curtain. Europe will complain about Russia and the US then ask the US for help when it benefits them.

Yes It is evident that we do not whether for reasons abounding from religious identity to tribal conflict et.al. we have in our past got it wrong even when we were "right". I am not and will never be an Isolationist but we need to pick our battles better.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Yes It is evident that we do not whether for reasons abounding from religious identity to tribal conflict et.al. we have in our past got it wrong even when we were "right". I am not and will never be an Isolationist but we need to pick our battles better.

I wasn't saying that I agree with it one way or another. Putin fills a certain boogy man void out there that is both good and bad for the US. He's like the bully at school all the nerds and small kids were afraid of. You know you could kick his ass if you wanted but it isn't worth the effort to do it yourself. You just protect the kids you feel like.

 

[GeddyLee09]

We left some staggering amount of military equipment in Afghanistan. Should tell Ukraine to pick up there whatever they want.

American supplies of military “stuff” are very low as we continue to give key assets to Ukraine. Smart? I guess we will find out.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that actual stock levels of US military equipment isn't out there for public viewing. Its all an estimate.

 

[fsufool]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that actual stock levels of US military equipment isn't out there for public viewing. Its all an estimate.

There is also info. that can be critical that is obtained when weapon systems are deployed on the battlefield................most of our modern last generation weapons haven't been only limited used on the battlefield. Even last generation weapons have had limited use.

 

[surfnole]

Ukrainian pilots and maintenance people are already trained so it’s just a plus up. F-16’s

I've never heard that Ukranian pilots and maintenance were already trained in the F16. I have heard of a couple of pilots in the US currently for some sort of training. When/where did Ukraine become battle ready in the F16?

 

[GeddyLee09]

I've never heard that Ukranian pilots and maintenance were already trained in the F16. I have heard of a couple of pilots in the US currently for some sort of training. When/where did Ukraine become battle ready in the F16?

They aren't. It was a different sentence. "Poland will send MIG’s to Ukraine along with Slovakia. Ukrainian pilots and maintenance people are already trained so it’s just a plus up. F-16’s to Ukraine would be touchy and if it happened would be a scaled down older block aircraft".

Although there is talk of the US looking into how long it would take to train Ukrainian pilots on the F-16. Of course this is only part of the issue as without the associated maintenance expertise these jets would become statues after a few flights. In addition I doubt the US would want to give them anything advanced or with upgraded systems.