Changes in Little League

[BelemNole]

as I was watching the Little League WS this weekend it got me thinking about how things were when I was a kid and the madness they've become. I was a pitcher from pretty much after T-ball to when I stopped playing in HS. I NEVER had a pitching coach. I never had private pitching sessions. I don't even recall any of my coaches taking me aside for individual pitching training during practices. The only training I received was from pops or my brother when they had the time. And dad didn't allow me to throw curve-balls. Didn't want me screwing up my arm as a 13 year old. Fastball, change-up and I used to screw around with a knuckleball for shits and giggles.
Now days kids seem to start with private pitching coaches when they're about 8 years old and are throwing junk before they're 10. Gotta get on that travel ball team if you want the scholly offer before you're 14!

 

[LT4PLY]

as I was watching the Little League WS this weekend it got me thinking about how things were when I was a kid and the madness they've become. I was a pitcher from pretty much after T-ball to when I stopped playing in HS. I NEVER had a pitching coach. I never had private pitching sessions. I don't even recall any of my coaches taking me aside for individual pitching training during practices. The only training I received was from pops or my brother when they had the time. And dad didn't allow me to throw curve-balls. Didn't want me screwing up my arm as a 13 year old. Fastball, change-up and I used to screw around with a knuckleball for shits and giggles.
Now days kids seem to start with private pitching coaches when they're about 8 years old and are throwing junk before they're 10. Gotta get on that travel ball team if you want the scholly offer before you're 14!

Bottom line is we used to play for fun. Not sure why parents get so focused on the competition but it's crazy. Locally here there is a football league that has 5,6, and 7 year olds playing tackle. The league stresses over and over and over again that it is about safe and fun not winning or the competition yet 90 percent of the coaches can't help themselves and it turns into a dumpster fire of coaches screaming at little kids like they are playing an NFL game.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I tell my kids NFL stands for Not for Losers. If they want to play in the pros, they have to put in the time. No more whining about homework or missing field trips and all that garbage. Same for crying about injuries. "Oh, my head hurts." "My fingers are all tingly." Whatever... you'll be fine by the weekend.

 

[mcgrawfsu]

My son is 10 and he plays on a 10u travel team. He's had pitching lessons for well over a year, also gets hitting and catcher lessons. We've never pushed him to lessons. He did a baseball camp and liked working with the coaches and asked if he could continue getting lessons when the summer camps ended.

As far as competition goes, we play travel in the fall and LL in the spring. The fall rec leagues were absolutely awful and he didn't like playing on those teams. He likes getting the LL all-star level of play for more than 6 weeks a year. There are a few parents that are pushing the lessons and the teams for unrealistic goals, but for the most part the parents/kids we interact with are there because they want to get away from the kids that don't pay attention or don't want to play baseball.

 

[seminoledq]

If the kids want it then go for it. When the parents are the ones who want it is when problems start. I don't care how competitive the league is, if a kid is good enough to be recruited or drafted, the talent scouts will find them.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Bottom line is we used to play for fun. Not sure why parents get so focused on the competition but it's crazy. Locally here there is a football league that has 5,6, and 7 year olds playing tackle. The league stresses over and over and over again that it is about safe and fun not winning or the competition yet 90 percent of the coaches can't help themselves and it turns into a dumpster fire of coaches screaming at little kids like they are playing an NFL game.

Awful. There is nothing worse than 30/40 year old parents screaming for little Johnny to win the game-- because God knows he's going to be the next Tom Brady or Joe Montanna... everyone of them. Poor kids....
We see this with our neighbors. The dad (and mom) are ultra competitive in everything they do (both are salesmen). We can already see their son having the same outlook on everything. When he loses a baseball video game he goes home to pout and cry. Winning isn't everything....

 

[kc78]

Parents are killing their kids and destroying their arms. Its ridiculous that kids are now getting Tommy Johns surgery before graduating high school. There's simply no reason to pick a sport to specialize in by the time you're 12. Play everything you like. If you're really good at one start specializing in high school. If not, just enjoy the ride.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

The one good thing I see out of this is the kids' gear and field condtions. The kids' unis and gear are totally decked out. I didn't see a 1st baseman's mitt till hs, we had 1 set of catcher's gear, and shared bats. And all the LL fields and mounds I see are in pristine condition with nice dugouts, break away bases, no more OF pot holes and kicking hard old clay for minutes on the mound.

 

[Noleguy06]

I don't think they should even be showing 12 year olds on TV. Too much pressure for a kid that age.

 

[2noles1cup]

My son is 10 and he plays on a 10u travel team. He's had pitching lessons for well over a year, also gets hitting and catcher lessons. We've never pushed him to lessons. He did a baseball camp and liked working with the coaches and asked if he could continue getting lessons when the summer camps ended.

As far as competition goes, we play travel in the fall and LL in the spring. The fall rec leagues were absolutely awful and he didn't like playing on those teams. He likes getting the LL all-star level of play for more than 6 weeks a year. There are a few parents that are pushing the lessons and the teams for unrealistic goals, but for the most part the parents/kids we interact with are there because they want to get away from the kids that don't pay attention or don't want to play baseball.

So you're totally living vicariously...

 

[RPMNole]

The LL field size is a joke. The majority of 12 year olds play on much larger fields (Babe Ruth, Pony, etc).

A lot of those kids have terrible swings and are hitting pop-ups off the fists that are going out. What a joke

 

[DFSNOLE]

The LL field size is a joke. The majority of 12 year olds play on much larger fields (Babe Ruth, Pony, etc).

Pony League ages are 13-14 and Babe Ruth 13-15 so, no.

 

[runkpanole]

John Smoltz Hall of Fame speech was on point.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

Parents are killing their kids and destroying their arms. Its ridiculous that kids are now getting Tommy Johns surgery before graduating high school. There's simply no reason to pick a sport to specialize in by the time you're 12. Play everything you like. If you're really good at one start specializing in high school. If not, just enjoy the ride.

This. These kids are playing way, way too much baseball when their bodies are not ready for it. Some of these kids are on MULTIPLE travel ball teams -- which blows my mind -- and they play almost as frequently as major leaguers (i.e., damned near every day). Beyond ridiculous. Aside from the obvious wear/tear on their bodies, most of these kids have very few "outside" interests or friends (i.e., there simply isn't time for "that").

 

[RPMNole]

Pony League ages are 13-14 and Babe Ruth 13-15 so, no.

While both organizations use their name for a particular age group, both run other age groups too. Pony has a 12u division that uses a larger field than LL. Babe Ruth does too, it's organized as the Cal Ripken League.

If you're going to nitpick, make sure you're right.

My point is the field is larger and a truer test.

 

[SeaPA]

While both organizations use their name for a particular age group, both run other age groups too. Pony has a 12u division that uses a larger field than LL. Babe Ruth does too, it's organized as the Cal Ripken League.

If you're going to nitpick, make sure you're right.

My point is the field is larger and a truer test.

Meh, Ripken rules require minimum outfield fence of 200 ft. LLB rules allow the outfield fence to be a local league option, but have a suggested minimum of 200 ft. In the Tampa area, pretty much all of the leagues who are now affiliated with Ripken/Babe Ruth were previously LLB affiliates. They didn't build new fields, they didn't relocate their fences - they simply changed the couple of things that are significantly different. The mound is a few feet further back, and the bases are longer. Batters have a little extra reaction time to swing the bat. The bases are the major difference, in multiple ways. A fielder has a little extra time to field & throw (i.e. fast runners can't easily beat out slow grounders to the left side); baserunners learn how to steal (or properly lead off), pitchers have to learn how to hold runners on...

 

[RPMNole]

The fact Tampa, a traditional power in LL is moving to Ripken proves the point. 11-12 year olds should be playing on a larger field as a transition to the regulation field at 13.

Four feet farther for pitching is significant. 10 feet farther on the bases is 3 steps at least. It's been a while but I don't remember us playing on fields with fences under 225. 250 was more the norm.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Your point that the majority of 12 year olds play on a larger field simply is not true. Little League Baseball remains the largest youth sports organization in the world.

 

[RPMNole]

Your point that the majority of 12 year olds play on a larger field simply is not true. Little League Baseball remains the largest youth sports organization in the world.

At the 12u level, I believe it is true. SeaPa mentioned league in Tampa moved over. That is the trend. It is simply better for the player. LL hasn't changed their field forever even though kids are bigger.

I'll try to see if the Ripken people have numbers to share.

 

[SeaPA]

The fact Tampa, a traditional power in LL is moving to Ripken proves the point. 11-12 year olds should be playing on a larger field as a transition to the regulation field at 13.

Four feet farther for pitching is significant. 10 feet farther on the bases is 3 steps at least. It's been a while but I don't remember us playing on fields with fences under 225. 250 was more the norm.

While I agree that the game is much different with the mound distance and, even moreso, base path difference, I don't particularly agree that it will change the long-term development of a good player. The better players will make the adjustment, and the kids that won't will go from being studs at age 12 to being useless at the next level.

On the fence issue, as I said the leagues in the Tampa area haven't changed them. They are still playing with the same fences as they did when they were LLB - they simply moved the mound & the base anchors. With the added reaction time, I'd expect more, not less, homers.

From what I've seen, heard, and read, one of the bigger issues that spurred some of the league switches had little to do with the field (LLB also has added 50/70 play) and lots to do with LLB's more restrictive rules on players living within the boundaries of the local charter. In other words, they wanted to be able to put together stronger teams by pulling from a bigger area.

 

[SeaPA]

I tried looking for some field dimensions; I did find in the rule book that Ripken has a mandatory minimum of 200 feet, LLB has a suggested minimum of 200 feet but will allow shorter. The field at Williamsport (which hosts LLBWS) is 225. At Ripken Experience - which I think now hosts the Ripken WS - they have a number of "replica" fields (Fenway, Camden, Yankmee, Wrigley), which are scaled down versions of the major league parks. Some of them, like the MLB stadiums, have short fences down the line & are deeper in center - but their website does not show the dimensions.

 

[mcgrawfsu]

While I agree LL should make adjustments to the infield dimensions, I still enjoy watching the games. There are different strategies that need to be used. Unlike travel ball, a walk or a single isn't an automatic double or triple. Years ago kids would steal at will. This past season my son's LL team only gave up one clean steal of a base. In travel, kids are stealing on the first pitch. Doesn't matter how good the pitcher is at holding them on or how strong the catcher's arm is. Unless the kid is extremely slow or fat, kids can easily steal in travel.

As far as the fence distances, nobody is changing the outfield. Of all the home runs I've seen the past few years, most would have easily been gone with 250' fences.

My biggest concern with the LL pitching distance is player safety. I've seen a number of kids get rocked by line drives, including one this summer that needed a helicopter transport to a hospital.

 

[RPMNole]

I agree that at 11u the catcher rarely throws out a base stealer. Especially at 2B. At 12u it wasn't as automatic.

There were too many home runs at the LL World Series. I don't know if it was the bats or the field or what, but when I see a kid hit an opposite field home run without even barreling the ball up, something is wrong.

My son played a bunch at Ripken in Maryland. I don't remember the dimensions on all the fields but the Cal Sr. field was definitely more than 225.

 

[NYCNole]

Travel baseball(10U) is taken way to serious in my town. The dads scream instructions to fielders before each pitch, throw clipboards when errors occur & kids throw tantrums after striking out. A big check gets the unqualified kids on the team. Guys who are normal off the field morph into Jim Harbaugh once game begins, quite sad. My favorite is the after game cocktails in which they analyze each at bat like Tim McCarver during World Series. Not one single father played Division I baseball.

Every year before season starts my wife gets cornered by friends asking if I can draft their kids.

 

[SeaPA]

A couple of years ago I had a crazydad as my assistant coach (I was the manager, the guy was a good friend of a buddy of mine). His son is a pretty good player - no superstar, but better than average. The dad damn near drove me insane over the course of the season yelling technical corrections to his kid, especially when the kid was on the mound. It was literally between every single pitch that was not a strike - "your arm was too low, your arm was too high, too much leg kick, not enough leg kick..." It was a constant battle for me not to tell him to stfu & let the kid at least complete a batter before rebuilding his pitching motion.
Poor kid was an absolute basket case. He pitched exactly one good game during the season - the night his dad had to work & missed the game.

 

[NYCNole]

A couple of years ago I had a crazydad as my assistant coach (I was the manager, the guy was a good friend of a buddy of mine). His son is a pretty good player - no superstar, but better than average. The dad damn near drove me insane over the course of the season yelling technical corrections to his kid, especially when the kid was on the mound. It was literally between every single pitch that was not a strike - "your arm was too low, your arm was too high, too much leg kick, not enough leg kick..." It was a constant battle for me not to tell him to stfu & let the kid at least complete a batter before rebuilding his pitching motion.
Poor kid was an absolute basket case. He pitched exactly one good game during the season - the night his dad had to work & missed the game.

Cannot stand father's that critique after each pitch or during an at-bat. Kids cannot process info that quickly & just get more confused. I have two players on my 10U team which attend core strength training sessions. That's almost a bigger waste of money than Gators season tixx.

 

[LT4PLY]

Travel baseball(10U) is taken way to serious in my town. The dads scream instructions to fielders before each pitch, throw clipboards when errors occur & kids throw tantrums after striking out. A big check gets the unqualified kids on the team. Guys who are normal off the field morph into Jim Harbaugh once game begins, quite sad. My favorite is the after game cocktails in which they analyze each at bat like Tim McCarver during World Series. Not one single father played Division I baseball.

Every year before season starts my wife gets cornered by friends asking if I can draft their kids.

The fact that there is a draft and there is a league that exists where any 10 year old is considered unqualified is the problem. What used to have a basis in participation and team spirit is now draft based down to 6 year olds. What... The... Heck. This will make the parents worse. It doesn't just push the kids, it pushes the parents to make sure their kids get better / play better to stay on the team or get to the next team. If you want a full on competitive sport this is what you will get... full on competition. It's where the fun ended and having the 'qualified' kids all on one 'superior' team makes the kids that aren't as good worse because part of a team sport is the kids teaching each other too. I'm all about having the kids compete but it's out of hand at this point.

 

[Bav803]

I remember vividly watching this as a kid, and noticing that the dimensions were much smaller than I was playing at. It was frustrating thinking of how easy I thought the pitchers had it.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

The fact that there is a draft and there is a league that exists where any 10 year old is considered unqualified is the problem. What used to have a basis in participation and team spirit is now draft based down to 6 year olds. What... The... Heck. This will make the parents worse. It doesn't just push the kids, it pushes the parents to make sure their kids get better / play better to stay on the team or get to the next team. If you want a full on competitive sport this is what you will get... full on competition. It's where the fun ended and having the 'qualified' kids all on one 'superior' team makes the kids that aren't as good worse because part of a team sport is the kids teaching each other too. I'm all about having the kids compete but it's out of hand at this point.

At that age it's silly, but as they get older it makes sense to me to start grouping kids by skill level. There is nothing worse for a kid than being stuck on a team where a third of the kids don't want to be there and just screw around.

 

[NYCNole]

The fact that there is a draft and there is a league that exists where any 10 year old is considered unqualified is the problem. What used to have a basis in participation and team spirit is now draft based down to 6 year olds. What... The... Heck. This will make the parents worse. It doesn't just push the kids, it pushes the parents to make sure their kids get better / play better to stay on the team or get to the next team. If you want a full on competitive sport this is what you will get... full on competition. It's where the fun ended and having the 'qualified' kids all on one 'superior' team makes the kids that aren't as good worse because part of a team sport is the kids teaching each other too. I'm all about having the kids compete but it's out of hand at this point.

There's a draft for 6 yr old machine pitch league. Some father's tank player evaluations so kids will drop on the ranking list & draft them later. Players must rotate positions every two innings, caught one coach switching jerseys in dugout so same kid could remain at SS. He's league commissioner.

 

[NYCNole]

At that age it's silly, but as they get older it makes sense to me to start grouping kids by skill level. There is nothing worse for a kid than being stuck on a team where a third of the kids don't want to be there and just screw around.

I laugh when the baseball "superstars" join rec basketball in winter & screw around b-c taller/quicker kids dominate hoops. The same fathers who scream at rec baseball players for errors all of sudden want rules to assist their less talented kids in hoops. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I laugh when the baseball "superstars" join rec basketball in winter & screw around b-c taller/quicker kids dominate hoops. The same fathers who scream at rec baseball players for errors all of sudden want rules to assist their less talented kids in hoops. Can't have it both ways.

I think we're saying the same thing?
At a certain age kids should be grouped by ability. Same for academics IMO.

 

[SeaPA]

At that age it's silly, but as they get older it makes sense to me to start grouping kids by skill level. There is nothing worse for a kid than being stuck on a team where a third of the kids don't want to be there and just screw around.

I'd argue that, in most cases, the kids (including the good ones) care far less about that than do the parents.