FHP Honchos Retire Over Ticket Quota Emails

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

Not sure if you saw this, but the second-highest ranking official in the Florida Highway Patrol has retired after sending an email to the troops indicating they should write "2 tickets per hour." Another FHP'er -- from Troop H -- retired earlier this month after emailing the same essential message.

Just further confirmation that irrespective of what the law says, there have always been -- and continue to be -- de facto performance quotas for these guys. All of the public safety rhetoric sounds nice, but the reality is that these folks are revenue machines who have to ju$tify their exi$tence.

 

[goldmom]

As so many of us from Jax have said over the years, they filled those quotas on Saturday mornings on I-10 going west between Madison and Tally- stopping lots of cars with FSU flags, but strangely enough, I literally never saw a single car going east with gator flags. I'm sure it was because they were all driving below the speed limit, right?

 

[SeaPA]

As so many of us from Jax have said over the years, they filled those quotas on Saturday mornings on I-10 going west between Madison and Tally- stopping lots of cars with FSU flags, but strangely enough, I literally never saw a single car going east with gator flags. I'm sure it was because they were all driving below the speed limit, right?

Would you be in any rush to get to Hogtown?

 

[funksouljon]

Did he send and quit like a heading out the door message or send and then have to retire after it became public knowledge?

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Not sure if you saw this, but the second-highest ranking official in the Florida Highway Patrol has retired after sending an email to the troops indicating they should write "2 tickets per hour." Another FHP'er -- from Troop H -- retired earlier this month after emailing the same essential message.

Just further confirmation that irrespective of what the law says, there have always been -- and continue to be -- de facto performance quotas for these guys. All of the public safety rhetoric sounds nice, but the reality is that these folks are revenue machines who have to ju$tify their exi$tence.

Never thought any different. At least many patrols will sit on the side of the road and can make the argument that their visibility is itself a deterrent to speeding. Haven't lived in FL for over 20 years but I remember how FHP would always wedge their little Mustangs up into the bushes along I-10 so nobody could see them.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Never thought any different. At least many patrols will sit on the side of the road and can make the argument that their visibility is itself a deterrent to speeding. Haven't lived in FL for over 20 years but I remember how FHP would always wedge their little Mustangs up into the bushes along I-10 so nobody could see them.

Yeah you don't realize how terrible our strategy of hidden tax enforcers I mean police are until you go someplace like New Zealand and see not only are they making zero attempts to be hidden, but they decorate their police cars like clown cars to really stick out.

Compare those to our state highway patrol hidden black suvs.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

Yeah you don't realize how terrible our strategy of hidden tax enforcers I mean police are until you go someplace like New Zealand and see not only are they making zero attempts to be hidden, but they decorate their police cars like clown cars to really stick out.

Compare those to our state highway patrol hidden black suvs.

Revenue vs. Effective Deterrence.

 

[Bav803]

Meh,

While I'm not a fan of speed limits except in school zones, if you are going the speed limit, you don't get a ticket...easy. I am in 100% control of the outcome.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

As so many of us from Jax have said over the years, they filled those quotas on Saturday mornings on I-10 going west between Madison and Tally- stopping lots of cars with FSU flags, but strangely enough, I literally never saw a single car going east with gator flags. I'm sure it was because they were all driving below the speed limit, right?

Alachua County can eat it also.

 

[OrlandNole]

Alachua County can eat it also.

Actually, Waldo dissolved their police department in 2016 because of the speed trap issue. You can speed to you hearts content...but you still have to slow down through Lawtey.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

we have to remove the profit motive from police work.

any and all ticket revenues should be re-invested in the community by way of continuing adult education, child care, DARE type programs, drug counselling. not a single dollar should be going back into the police departments.

it 100% drives the wrong behavior.

rather than deterring crime, cops basically are waiting until you commit one. a damn shame and totally contrary to their mandate as PUBLIC SERVANTS.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

we have to remove the profit motive from police work.

any and all ticket revenues should be re-invested in the community by way of continuing adult education, child care, DARE type programs, drug counselling. not a single dollar should be going back into the police departments.

it 100% drives the wrong behavior.

rather than deterring crime, cops basically are waiting until you commit one. a damn shame and totally contrary to their mandate as PUBLIC SERVANTS.

I like it.

 

[FSUTribe76]

we have to remove the profit motive from police work.

any and all ticket revenues should be re-invested in the community by way of continuing adult education, child care, DARE type programs, drug counselling. not a single dollar should be going back into the police departments.

it 100% drives the wrong behavior.

rather than deterring crime, cops basically are waiting until you commit one. a damn shame and totally contrary to their mandate as PUBLIC SERVANTS.

But how can they afford those sweet surplus armoured personnel carriers, helicopters with thermal imaging spy gear and tactical assault weapons from the Feds if they can't scam a few plebes?

 

[ReliableOstrich]

The overall principle of police work in the US appears to be incarceration and revenue extraction.

Doesn't make any sense, why lock people up after the fact when you can invest a fraction of those dollars in crime prevention, counselling, and rehabilitation. We've built a system that basically creates criminals just to punish them rather than being there to keep / help folks stay on the straight and narrow before they ruin their life or someone else's.

Essentially police forces are full of guys who seem to be more interested military grade weapons than caring for and counselling their fellow man.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

But how can they afford those sweet surplus armoured personnel carriers, helicopters with thermal imaging spy gear and tactical assault weapons from the Feds if they can't scam a few plebes?

Considering global warming trends, it might make more sense for police departments to invest in boats rather than tanks. But what do I know, it's only the safest time to live in America in like 70 years, why not provide police with grenade launchers (no joke, that's a thing they're buying).

 

[seminole97]

Beware the highwayman!

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

The overall principle of police work in the US appears to be incarceration and revenue extraction.

Doesn't make any sense, why lock people up after the fact when you can invest a fraction of those dollars in crime prevention, counselling, and rehabilitation. We've built a system that basically creates criminals just to punish them rather than being there to keep / help folks stay on the straight and narrow before they ruin their life or someone else's.

Essentially police forces are full of guys who seem to be more interested military grade weapons than caring for and counselling their fellow man.

There's a middle ground though. Call it Dalton's Theory of Policing: "Be nice. Be nice, until it's time to not be nice."

 

[PoopandBoogers]

Actually, Waldo dissolved their police department in 2016 because of the speed trap issue. You can speed to you hearts content...but you still have to slow down through Lawtey.

They still have those billboards up on hwy 301 that said "Lawtey, (etc town name) is a speed trap" and "Lawtey is not a speed trap" depending on who paid for them? Always got a kick outta that. That's some small town Fl that is ever so slowly slipping away.

 

[kc78]

we have to remove the profit motive from police work.

any and all ticket revenues should be re-invested in the community by way of continuing adult education, child care, DARE type programs, drug counselling. not a single dollar should be going back into the police departments.

it 100% drives the wrong behavior.

rather than deterring crime, cops basically are waiting until you commit one. a damn shame and totally contrary to their mandate as PUBLIC SERVANTS.

What's even more dangerous are the laws that allow cops to confiscate money and items without any proof that you were committing a crime and then use that money as revenue as well. There have been a ton of small town police offices in Texas who have stolen quite a bit of money from innocent people without any cause.

 

[kc78]

The overall principle of police work in the US appears to be incarceration and revenue extraction.

Doesn't make any sense, why lock people up after the fact when you can invest a fraction of those dollars in crime prevention, counselling, and rehabilitation. We've built a system that basically creates criminals just to punish them rather than being there to keep / help folks stay on the straight and narrow before they ruin their life or someone else's.

Essentially police forces are full of guys who seem to be more interested military grade weapons than caring for and counselling their fellow man.

That's absolutely correct. When we allowed wealthy people to start profiting off of private prisons, that only incentivized the need to lock more and more people up for longer and longer times, especially non-violent drug users because they're cheaper to control. We have basically created a new type of slavery in the US, but using the prison system rather than the plantation system.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

How about this cop in Cobb County GA, who was nationally recognized and routinely arrests people for DUI while totally sober, saying his training can visually spot a drunk or drugs more accurately than scientific tests. This kinda thing russtles me to no end. Horrible.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

That's absolutely correct. When we allowed wealthy people to start profiting off of private prisons, that only incentivized the need to lock more and more people up for longer and longer times, especially non-violent drug users because they're cheaper to control. We have basically created a new type of slavery in the US, but using the prison system rather than the plantation system.

Don't get me started on for-profit prisons.
Talk about a public-private partnership where the goals are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED! Prison companies want return 'visitors' and have no incentive to rehabilitate anyone.

It's as if the name Department of Corrections is something the Onion came up with to ridicule what actually goes on in our prison system.

As far as civil asset forfeiture, don't get me started on that either! In 85% of forfeiture cases no criminal charges are ever filed, and dollars seized have gone from $93 million in 1986 to $2.5 billion in 2010. It's unbelievable that more people aren't up in arms about this but get all rustled when someone brings up the inheritance tax, which they'll never be rich enough to pay It should be noted that AG Sessions has supported growing civil asset forfeiture, removing Obama era limits on them, in spite of bipartisan criticism.

 

[kc78]

Don't get me started on for-profit prisons.
Talk about a public-private partnership where the goals are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED! Prison companies want return 'visitors' and have no incentive to rehabilitate anyone.

It's as if the name Department of Corrections is something the Onion came up with to ridicule what actually goes on in our prison system.

As far as civil asset forfeiture, don't get me started on that either! In 85% of forfeiture cases no criminal charges are ever filed, and dollars seized have gone from $93 million in 1986 to $2.5 billion in 2010. It's unbelievable that more people aren't up in arms about this but get all rustled when someone brings up the inheritance tax, which they'll never be rich enough to pay It should be noted that AG Sessions has supported growing civil asset forfeiture, removing Obama era limits on them, in spite of bipartisan criticism.

Finally someone else who gets it. I'm so exhausted of the blank stares I get when I discuss systematic racial injustice within our justice systems. I give these examples and just get illogical justification after illogical justification.

 

[ggmike1992]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. As one poster mentioned above, you are in control of your actions.

 

[BelemNole]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. As one poster mentioned above, you are in control of your actions.

Or in the case of the DUI cop, if you can't do the time, don't get stopped in Cobb county by a cop who claims he' more accurate than blood and urine tests...

 

[SoddyNole]

Finally someone else who gets it. I'm so exhausted of the blank stares I get when I discuss systematic racial injustice within our justice systems. I give these examples and just get illogical justification after illogical justification.

Justice for one is often injustice for another. Maybe a better framed argument will yield better results.
The blank stares you see could be a reflection from your monitor.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Finally someone else who gets it. I'm so exhausted of the blank stares I get when I discuss systematic racial injustice within our justice systems. I give these examples and just get illogical justification after illogical justification.

Thing is, things like civil asset forfeiture, for profit policing (as cited by the OP), and for profit prisons aren't even racial issues -- they are screwing people over of every race. Yes, black folks are getting more screwed, but everyone else is also losing out in this deal.

There's a better way but no one seems concerned and so the politicians go about their merry way, privatizing things at the expense of the common man who's too busy screaming at his neighbor about emails or Russia.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. As one poster mentioned above, you are in control of your actions.

That's oversimplifying it and missing the point.

Are you prepared to pay the maximum fine every time you speed? How many hundreds of thousands of dollars with of speeding tickets have you been willing to pay thus far?

 

[HulaNole]

I am in 100% control of the outcome.

Unfortunately that just isn't true.

you are in control of your actions.

But you are not in control of a fair outcome.

 

[ggmike1992]

That's oversimplifying it and missing the point.

Are you prepared to pay the maximum fine every time you speed? How many hundreds of thousands of dollars with of speeding tickets have you been willing to pay thus far?

I am prepared not to speed.

 

[SeaPA]

What's even more dangerous are the laws that allow cops to confiscate money and items without any proof that you were committing a crime and then use that money as revenue as well. There have been a ton of small town police offices in Texas who have stolen quite a bit of money from innocent people without any cause.

Had that happen to a guy I know fairly well, I've coached his son in soccer a number of times. Raided his house & business, confiscated a vehicles and a large sum of cash that he had in a safe, with him facing a number of charges, including racketeering. He ended up pleading guilty to a couple of misdemeanors, but with the requirement that he forfeit the seized assets.
The major crime for which he was accused - cashing paychecks for laborers, and charging them a small fee (from what I was told, the fee that he charged was that he truncated to the nearest five - so if your paycheck was $298.50 you got $295). That's typically a good bit less than most banks charge to cash a check if you don't have an account with them, even if you're at the bank of the employer. Some won't even cash them.

The business owner is Hispanic, as were essentially all of the customers for whom he'd cash the checks. I chatted with him about it one day, he figured his choices were:
* forfeit the vehicle and the cash, and accept the misdemeanor charges, or
*fight the charges. Worst case scenario, he spends more on legal fees than he forfeited, he gets convicted, and sent to jail. Best case scenario, he's found not guilty but has still spent more on legal fees than he forfeited.

There was definitely some criminal activity going on, but it wasn't by the guy cashing checks for people.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

Not sure if you saw this, but the second-highest ranking official in the Florida Highway Patrol has retired after sending an email to the troops indicating they should write "2 tickets per hour." Another FHP'er -- from Troop H -- retired earlier this month after emailing the same essential message.

Just further confirmation that irrespective of what the law says, there have always been -- and continue to be -- de facto performance quotas for these guys. All of the public safety rhetoric sounds nice, but the reality is that these folks are revenue machines who have to ju$tify their exi$tence.

It was clear to me decades ago that was what the FHP did.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

It was clear to me decades ago that was what the FHP did.

Correct. Common sense. But we have had a series of LEOs show up here over the years swearing that no such system exists. Silly, of course.

 

[F4Gary]

IBTL.

I too have funded a few feet of sidewalk in various cities across the US of A.

 

[billanole]

IBTL.

I too have funded a few feet of sidewalk in various cities across the US of A.

There are many big time criminals out there, but they have big time lawyers and politicians covering their tracks. It is oh, so much easier to chase the little fish.
Every politician can garner votes by pledging to "get tough on crime", but they always defer to the lesser offenses.

 

[billanole]

In too many locales, a chicken/egg scenario exists. Why do you need so many cops? To pay for the courts, judges, jails....
Why do you need so big a "criminal justice" system? To pay for the cops...

 

[OrlandNole]

Correct. Common sense. But we have had a series of LEOs show up here over the years swearing that no such system exists. Silly, of course.

You guys have it all wrong. These aren't quotas, they're guidelines to make sure troopers do their job.

 

[KitingHigh]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. As one poster mentioned above, you are in control of your actions.

Pull your head out of your rectum and pay attention. Cops are liars. They are stealing from and extorting from innocent people, not just guilty people. There are not a majority of good cops despite what anyone tries to tell you. If that was actually true we wouldn't see confirmed story after story of downright criminal behavior by police that is hidden for as long as possible and only comes out to the public after someone slips and accidentally lets the secret out or if we're lucky the lying POS gets caught on camera.

There needs to be a drastic change in the way police forces are handled. As mentioned they should not be able to receive any revenue from their actions. Not one dime. Also they need body cameras that are on the entire time they are on duty (yes, they can turn it off to go to the bathroom), and the video needs to be made available for public review. They also need to loose any immunity for their criminal actions.

They are public servants and they need to remember they are our employees, not our overlords. They are our servants, not our masters. Only then can they be trusted.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

You guys have it all wrong. These aren't quotas, they're guidelines to make sure troopers do their job.

"You need to be writing at least two tickets per hour." Really? What if I don't see two speeders every hour? Sorry, this is clearly a production-based edict intended to increase revenue. The number of FHP troopers is down because it is one of the lowest-paying agencies. The only way to reverse that trend is to increase compensation, and writing more tickets helps make that possible.

 

[F4Gary]

"You need to be writing at least two tickets per hour." Really? What if I don't see two speeders every hour? Sorry, this is clearly a production-based edict intended to increase revenue. The number of FHP troopers is down because it is one of the lowest-paying agencies. The only way to reverse that trend is to increase compensation, and writing more tickets helps make that possible.

I think he was being sarcastic. Could have used a little winkage.