FHP Honchos Retire Over Ticket Quota Emails
- Thread starter JohnnieHolmesNole
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I think he was being sarcastic. Could have used a little winkage.
I may have missed the tongue-in-cheek....apologies if that is the case.
perhaps we should look to change the profile of who we hire to become cops. rather than muscle bound, ex-military, and gun enthusiasts, we should mix in folks with sociology, psychology, public health, social work types of backgrounds.
the mix actually serves a few purposes...
1 - if a cop can work alongside their community, they can help folks avert crime rather than just waiting till one happens
2 - cops with soft skill degrees also inherently become internal counselors within the departments, helping other cops deal with the stresses of the job and becoming change agents.
3 - changing the us vs them image, whether it be the perception of cops haphazardly shooting unarmed motorists and pedestrians, issuing tickets just to meet quotas, or seizing civil assets... police work today is simply not respected enough, and a good bit of that blame is on the police and their leadership
4 - ethics, we've got to root out the bad apples who hide behind the blue shield
the mix actually serves a few purposes...
1 - if a cop can work alongside their community, they can help folks avert crime rather than just waiting till one happens
2 - cops with soft skill degrees also inherently become internal counselors within the departments, helping other cops deal with the stresses of the job and becoming change agents.
3 - changing the us vs them image, whether it be the perception of cops haphazardly shooting unarmed motorists and pedestrians, issuing tickets just to meet quotas, or seizing civil assets... police work today is simply not respected enough, and a good bit of that blame is on the police and their leadership
4 - ethics, we've got to root out the bad apples who hide behind the blue shield
Just like any profession, law enforcement has their share of bad characters. But before you lump all police officers to this catagory, check out the links below. I'm sure Warrick Dunn would beg to differ with a lot that's been posted here. The main issue with law enforcement officers is that they are recruited from the human race....
http://m.newser.com/story/247904/report-houston-cop-drowned-trying-to-get-to-work.html
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/florida-police-officers-shot-dead-article-1.3424344
http://www.11alive.com/mobile/artic...-murder-after-la-police-shooting/85-275680233
http://m.newser.com/story/247904/report-houston-cop-drowned-trying-to-get-to-work.html
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/florida-police-officers-shot-dead-article-1.3424344
http://www.11alive.com/mobile/artic...-murder-after-la-police-shooting/85-275680233
We should also stop giving them old military surplus equipment. Cops don't need tanks and grenade launchers. Yes, in the 80's things got very bad and far too many officers were dying in the field, but we've gone far too much in the other direction. We've trained cops to make certain they come home at all costs, even if that means that other innocent lives don't. The shoot first, ask questions later mentality along with the justice system that will almost never sentence a cop, no matter how bad they acted has setup a system where it's simply far too simple for an officer to kill a civilian for some of the smallest reasons.
Sad stories indeed, but not really germaine to the conversation at hand. Dunn's mother was killed while off duty, and the guy driving his car into a flood, while sad, in any other context would be considered a Darwin Award winner. Now officers being shot is horrible, but the "brotherhood" of police is at least partially responsible for that themselves, either way, it certainly doesn't excuse lying for ever about ticket quotas and arresting people for "driving stoned" when they are stone cold sober, or shooting unarmed people, or planting guns and drugs on people (sometimes forgetting that the body camera is on). Any death is sad, but these deaths don't excuse behavior and really don't have much to do with it at all in this case.
I agree that there are a lot, A LOT, of fantastic cops who are simply amazing and inspiring human beings. No doubt about that.
The problem is that there are also too many lousy ones. In a profession where you wear a gun on your hip, have the discretion to imprison, write hefty tickets, and seize assets, having a statistically significant number of lousy cops is a huge problem.
As for those good and great cops -- they've got to start policing their own. If their profession is policing and the public can't trust them to police themselves, the public sure as hell not going to trust them to police the civilian masses --- This is the root problem we're seeing play out in the police dialogue today. Trust.
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No disagreement here.
It's amazing, homicides of civilians and cops are near 70 year lows (fairly there's been a very slight uptick in the last 12-18 mo, but a small fraction compared to 60s-80s). Yet we're seeing cops load up on armor and military weapons.
Why? As the murder rate drops they want more weapons? Absolutely makes no sense.
It apparently doesn't occur to them that walking the streets and doing community work is the better option, both in terms of public safety and also police-civilian relationships. They're being tone-deaf and making the problem worse.
This is solid info. I have been slow rolling through there for years. I was thinking that I hadn't seen any police in a while.
Oh, I'll see your egregious and raise you an outright abomination
And people wonder why the public is afraid of police...
To Cobb County PDs credit, the officer was fired today.
Two high ranking officers "retired" over this and a commander got suspended for three days. It would appear that the powers that be in the FHP agreed that a quota system was encouraged.
When it comes to this board, you have the discretion of a police officer. You can lock 'em up at will.
No doubt! Got a $441 speeding ticket in Lawtey, from a hair lipped cop. Going 46 mph in a 45... except there is apparently a school off the main road, and the school zone comes to the main road.
Recently got a ticket on the 400 Autobahn in Atlanta. He pulled me over when other people were blowing by me going 80+ in a 65. He tried to tell me I was at 82 in a 65, but would knock it down to 77. I can honestly say that 77 is probably what I was going, which was the flow.
Alpharetta cops sit on 400 and generate revenue at will. Paid my $100 at the last possible minute and called it a day.
Agree with those who say these departments should be forced to reinvest revenue into the community and not their own coffers.
Alpharetta cops sit on 400 and generate revenue at will. Paid my $100 at the last possible minute and called it a day.
Agree with those who say these departments should be forced to reinvest revenue into the community and not their own coffers.
Wow. That dude made his quota with a single stop. Kind of like catching a 10-pound bass at sun-up.....no need to keep fishing!
I've seen the Grand Ole Opry and I've met Johnny Cash
If that ain't country I'll kiss your ass
with everyone having a cell phone, we can prolly get by with a few less state troopers. Funny thing is, in places where red light and speed cams exist, they don't cut the number of cops down. That being said, plenty of departments are having trouble attracting quality applicants.
Here's some egregious copping by some of the country's finest.
Here a LEO arrests a nurse for "interfering with a criminal investigation" when she refused to draw blood from an unconscious and badly burned victim when the LEO in question didn't have a warrant and she considered it unsafe to draw blood from the patient.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/09/dis...-refusing-to-draw-unconscious-patients-blood/
Here a LEO arrests a nurse for "interfering with a criminal investigation" when she refused to draw blood from an unconscious and badly burned victim when the LEO in question didn't have a warrant and she considered it unsafe to draw blood from the patient.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/09/dis...-refusing-to-draw-unconscious-patients-blood/
Or the story of the cop who pulled over an ambulance and interfered with the patient getting to the hospital, and then arrested the paramedic when he complained. Turns out, the cop owned a competing ambulance business and was simply trying to cause issues for the competition.
Or the cops who videotaped themselves planting evidence.
Or the cops who shoot your dogs after accidentally breaking in the wrong houses door.
Or the cops who shoot innocent, unarmed black men....
I'm sorry, I know there are a lot of good officers out there who put their life on the line, but every single damned one of them toes the blue line when these stories come up and embrace excuse after excuse after excuse, begging for us to wait until all the facts come out, to trust the system, etc....
If even one of them started being a bulldog about getting people off the beat who can't be trusted with a gun then I'd have an easier time trusting them, but I've never seen it. Not once. Instead all I get is post after post on social media about how blue lives matter and distorting the facts about people of color.
I should stop now. I know I'm not supposed to get political, but I've had too many friends suffer in too many ways, and simply watched the system walk all over them afterwards. This isn't about politics to me anyhow, this is about life and justice. I don't want to watch another grieving Mother as she sobs over her unarmed son being left to bleed out in the streets in handcuffs, or another child watch her Father die from the backseat of a car while the cop gets let off by the judicial system every single damned time. This isn't Justice, but it sure as Hell is America.
I'm done.
When it comes to this board, you have the discretion of a police officer. You can lock 'em up at will.
No threads, no peace!
Law Enforcement is not "just any profession" as I'm sure you are aware. Lives can be ruined.
Yes, there are good officers. I have a lot of family members that I think tried to do the right thing during their careers who are either active or retired law enforcement officers. It doesn't mean I don't see when bad things happen.
Take for instance the Utah officer that arrested the nurse for not drawing the person's blood. It's all over the news. The nurse was following the law and the officer abused it while several other officers were around. Why didn't any one of the other police officers there make a stand? Why did the officer need to escalate that event in that environment. Do you think that nurse or anyone else there in that room are ever going to trust an officer again? Thankfully there is video and audio.
Also, tired of the "apology". There has to be consequences to stop this ongoing issue.
Did you see the recent video of the King's County Washington detective that pulls a gun on a motorcyclist and takes the motorcyclist's wallet without announcing that he is a detective for several minutes?
I'm pretty sure that every police department in the US has had seminars or lectures about not escalating a situation over the last two years because of events then but talking doesn't stick unfortunately.
likely yes, but many police departments also host training that implicitly encourages officers to use force when in the slightest doubt as precedent indicates they'll be within their rights.
the distinction that's not made is that just because something is within your rights doesn't mean it's the right decision. cops are professionals and ought to be making decisions as such. if you want a bad decision maker as a cop, hire amateur idiots like me.
I can't recall the guys name, but there's a man who is fairly well regarded in law enforcement circles who's job is to give seminars on the use of force. He teaches officers that if they kill someone, to be proud of it, to go home and have sex with their wives or husbands and celebrate that they still have their life, etc...
Not surprisingly, the officer who murdered Philando Castille had been to his training's. I have several friends who are good people and officers and probably amongst the better and they've all told me that they won't hesitate to shoot someone if they feel they're in danger. I understand that instinct, but I don't think it should be taught as actual policy, but should instead have training to try and circumvent that type of dangerous instinct rising up. Certainly, there are times when officers have no other choice but to use lethal force, but it needs to be last resort instead of one of the first.
The reason I mentioned that about training was because of this section in one of the articles about the Utah incident and it made sense especially with multiple events showing up at the national level now that more people have easy access to video recording devices:
"Mayor Jackie Biskupski says it’s a troubling setback to efforts to train officers to de-escalate situations rather than use force."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...1ea806-8f33-11e7-9c53-6a169beb0953_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...1ea806-8f33-11e7-9c53-6a169beb0953_story.html
That nurse had zero reason to be touched and a bunch of grown men in uniform stood around and did nothing.
Contempt of cop is a doubleplus ungood. Punishable by unwarranted arrest, harassment, and the obligatory resisting arrest without violence charge.
She's lucky to be breathing.
Not disagreeing with your overall sentiment, but I have an issue with your analysis. Are shootings in fact down? Homicide isn't really the metric for that.
Because of improved trauma care and more body armor we can expect more shooting victims to live today than in the 60s, but that doesn't mean there is less risk of being shot.
Fun link to illustrate this point.
For the month of august Chicago had 341 people shot, but only 52 died as result.
I don't know if that is more or less people shot per capita compared to the 60s, but a tour in Afghanistan does sound safer.
I know who you're talking about, that's exactly who I was referring to but I couldn't dig up his name either.
It's ridiculous that the public servants who are supposed to protect and serve are taught that garbage.
Just being real: who wants that gig? Low pay, plenty of danger, and lots of stress. Luckily, there are some good people who do great jobs.....but let's not kid ourselves: in general, this position is not attracting a surplus of America's best and brightest.
Agreed, the quality of talent being hired as cops is reflected in the stories we see about their poor decision making. It's exacerbated by a lack of proper training and mental healthcare provided to them once on the job.
I'm all for paying cops more in order to build a better applicant pool, forcing out the bad apples, and putting folks that know how to positively interact with humans in the community.
A bunch of underqualified folks who like playing with guns but won't get out of their cars to have a friendly chat with a stranger doesn't do much for me. This of course is a stereotype but speaks more to the philosophy and expectations of modern police work and training.
Any studies out there showing what percentage of police officers have come out of the military and have combat experience?
I wonder if that could explain the apparent rise in the "it's us or them" mentality? I imagine we could be seeing the survival skills and instincts (rightly and necessarily) acquired in Afghanistan and Iraq being deployed in middle-America. Then when you give them all the tools and gear they had in Afghanistan and Iraq why should we be surprised at the result?
Just a theory.
I wonder if that could explain the apparent rise in the "it's us or them" mentality? I imagine we could be seeing the survival skills and instincts (rightly and necessarily) acquired in Afghanistan and Iraq being deployed in middle-America. Then when you give them all the tools and gear they had in Afghanistan and Iraq why should we be surprised at the result?
Just a theory.
That's actually a myth. The pay isn't low. It's much more than most jobs requiring a similar education and training. It's also not that dangerous. It doesn't even break the top ten of dangerous jobs. It's one of the safer blue collar jobs you can have.
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