Is Joey Applesauce related to Johnny Appleseed?
Maybe like a third cousin thing? Asking for a friend.Has been a long time
- Thread starter TallyNole93
- Start date
- Status
Maybe like a third cousin thing? Asking for a friend.“What’s the difference between armed take over of a large portion of a major us city for many weeks and unarmed pushing, breaking shit and theft that shut down congress for a couple of hours?”
I’ve never heard anyone describe several city blocks as a large portion of a major city. Never mind the fact that nowhere in Seattle was a national election being certified. That’s where this comparison crumbles. Perhaps what happened in Seattle was an insurrection. What happened in DC was seditious conspiracy. BIG difference. As the saying goes, if you come at the Crown, don’t miss.
Let’s roll the tape.
What exactly and specifically is this supposed “Dem spin” of Jan 6 that you keep babbling about in your futile (definitely centrist lol) attempt to make it somehow equivalent to your Kavanaugh insurrection bs or the summer 2020 post-Floyd protests?
Many differing opinions, but apples and oranges. Protest is legal according to the constitution. Armed insurrection is not.
There are many cases on both sides of the aisle, going back to WWII.
Nationalism and communism are often confused, but both can be dictatorships. Dictatorships are dangerous, no matter what side they're on.
I've lived in South America and seen both of them.
There are many cases on both sides of the aisle, going back to WWII.
Nationalism and communism are often confused, but both can be dictatorships. Dictatorships are dangerous, no matter what side they're on.
I've lived in South America and seen both of them.
Wow, way beyond being nothing close to a “centrist” assessment, what an incredibly twisted and delusional dismissal of the severity and significance of January 6, no “spin” required.
Threatening ANY government official, by word or deed, is a felony. That includes those TWO in the Senate. I’d like to know exactly who lauded that activity in the press. A citation would be appreciated. (The scientist in me comes out periodically 😎). We all know that both sides spin things. The cop’s head wedged in a door requires no spin. But hey, we all know how much the right backs the blue. Right up until the time they cross Trump.
I’m quite sure that I shouldn’t dignify that nonsense with a detailed response.
Dude is an absolute complete mess.
But yeh, all violence and all protests during which there is any violence or looting or other illegality, regardless of who’s committing the offenses, the motivation/intent or any other context, it’s all the same. The only difference is the spin.
I guess that’s the new definition of “centrist” lol.
Joe was a moderate, or centrist, until he sold out to the radical left to get the party’s nod in 2020. Funny how the MSM never plays any of his recorded/public quips from 20+ years ago about race, same sex marriage, welfare, immigration, etc.
LOL. Dude has morphed COMPLETELY to now support all manner of radical agendas. But he’s so far gone mentally he may not even be aware of the paradigm shift.
“Radical agendas” sure is an interesting concept to explore, but probably not very successfully on a sports message board dominated by less liberal voices who fail to understand where the “center” in melting pot America really is.
Women voting and desegregation in America were considered “radical agendas” for a mighty long time, until people evolved or were dragged kicking and screaming out of their more comfortable preferred cocoon.
And no, that’s not a far left comment. Simply one that’s not rooted in fear, suspicion and grievance.
Women voting and desegregation in America were considered “radical agendas” for a mighty long time, until people evolved or were dragged kicking and screaming out of their more comfortable preferred cocoon.
And no, that’s not a far left comment. Simply one that’s not rooted in fear, suspicion and grievance.
I AM a centrist, and I’m hurt and offended……Okay I’m over it😜
It’s all good. I was paying pretty close attention😎
I would agree that people have "gotten confused".Left–right political spectrum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Relative to the spectrum as conventionally defined, I fit in many ways on the left. For example, relative to the right, "the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism".[19]" I fit none of that.
Relative to the progressive left, I don't really fit in there either. I fit best with classical liberal/libertarian orientations to the world. I've interpreted that as Centrist (and my general disdain for both the current right and left wing versions of our political system). However, I do agree that I would not characterize my positions as cleanly "intermediate." So, in that sense, I think it may be fair to say I'm not a centrist in that my views aren't particularly moderate. But, I am not right wing.
I relate to most, but not all, of this: Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" If you think about what I'm saying relative to, for example, looting and burning, blocking roads as being more problematic than rioting in a gov building. I'm arguing against hierarchy. I'm saying government is largely not a special class relative to our citizenry. I.e., this is a position rooted in a notion of equality and with recognition, with consideration of morality/ethics, to differences in strength/power. The gov is powerful. Everyday citizens, business owners, commuters to work. . . are not. So, one is an attack on the weak, another an attack on the strong.
I think that our political system has become rather confused in its alliances and organization.
Is there justification ever for rioting against the government? Yes. Our country basically started that way. But, I do not see any of the modern riots and civil disobedience as particularly justified. These events seem largely fanned by misinformation and with an apparent motivation to generate political and financial support for one side or the other.
I used to characterize myself as a moderate Republican or a green Republican. Ironically, I was told by people down here that there was no such thing and this goes back to 2010 or earlier.
Then I went to NAL for 4 days in DC, met with a lot of people, and realized all the wheeling and dealing between the members of committees to get things done, and those who actually worked together with the others.
I was ticked off that Jim Himes beat Chris Shays, but then realized they were almost the same, politically, the only difference was an R or a D next to their name.
I've taught history, and for many years until the excavation of Jamestown, had to counter all the Yankees that swore that the first colony was MA. I've also studied and researched a ton of Colonial genealogy.
(Just giving background for reference)
In this day and age, one of the things that bugs me the most though, is a lot of people's ideas on immigration, and the lengths people will go to against immigration. This country was built on it, and unless you are an Aleut, you're not in any way shape or form from this land originally. Even the Algonquin from North to South, and their sub tribes, are not purely Indigenous people. (There's a whole room at the Smithsonian devoted to this. It's pretty cool stuff)
The constitution affords us the right to protest, it does not afford the right to sedition.
A lot of you are a lot younger, so you were not alive during Viet Nam war protests, only read about Kent State and riots after MLK assassination.
With the exception of 1/6, most of the things that occurred in the summer were pretty tame compared to what was going on in the '60's and '70's.
The extreme right is just as bad as the extreme left.
The only thing I can say is, I won't vote for crooks, so my vote in 2016 was a write in, although it did nothing for anyone.
With the exception of 1/6, most of the things that occurred in the summer were pretty tame compared to what was going on in the '60's and '70's.
The extreme right is just as bad as the extreme left.
The only thing I can say is, I won't vote for crooks, so my vote in 2016 was a write in, although it did nothing for anyone.
Last edited:
Who in the heck ever said 1/6 is "an exception"? An exception to what?
You seem to have a very bizarre insistence to make things equivalent that are not. Every protest or disturbance or other similar-in-some-but-not-all-ways event should be evaluated and dealt with based on its own facts and context, as inconvenient as that might be.
Nothing's an "exception", but you remain out to lunch with the "what we saw is no different than what we saw over the summer", your insistence that the intent/motivation of the protesters in each case were the same, and also irrelevant (neither is true), your "I see nothing special about Jan 6."
Surprisingly, not all protests that include a violent aspect are the same, as you've been insisting in post after post they should be, I guess as some convenient way to support your preferred position.
Anybody who watched the entire 1/6 hearings, or at least has educated themselves with a wide variety of genuinely credible sources about what happened before and during 1/6 (and after, including the many charges and convictions), and why it happened, and has done so with an open mind and appreciation for our American institutions and key principles of our previously-more-admired democracy like the peaceful transition of power, cannot possibly issue statements like your "1/6 was nothing special" ridiculousness.
And no, I'm not going to waste more time explaining to you the many material ways in which 1/6 was indeed different than the summer 2020 protests (including but not limited to the opportunistic looters of the summer unrest, the charged and convicted anarchists separate from the racial injustice protesters, charged and convicted right-wing interlopers, etc. etc.)
If you really want to, you can certainly research and figure that out yourself.
Good immigration is great. Unfortunately, the line of foreign doctors, chemists, engineers, business executives and other professionals trying to enter the U.S. is long, and extremely expensive to navigate. THOSE ARE THE FOLKS WE WANT HERE, yet we have incredible barriers complicating their entry.
Meanwhile, complete unknowns pour across the border EVERY DAY like ants at a summer picnic. God only knows who all is in that crowd. But despite the obvious health, safety and security concerns, the current leadership completely ignores the issue. LOL. If anyone really wants these folks near you, please post your address in this thread so we can help direct them to your house. OK????
I live in Los Angeles. Many of my friends, colleagues, neighbors, students, and clients are undocumented immigrants. I am proud to live and work in the same community with them. I want these folks here.
Interesting and telling choice of wording there. ALL CAPS even. Not a single mention of all those other “good immigrants” WE not only want but need to fill jobs that not enough current US citizens are filling… the agricultural workers, restaurant, hotel and other hospitality staff, hospital and school custodians, and even those perhaps higher up in your apparent caste system of desirability to be marginally more acceptable to you, for example Spanish language teachers, nannies, social service staff and the like. But maybe the communities they serve also toss them into your less desirable bucket.
If you’re attempting to distinguish between documented vs undocumented immigration, why not be more careful/mindful about that rather than your more transparently denigrating commentary?
Our immigration system clearly needs attention and continuous improvement, but your obvious anti-immigrant commentary and selectively offensive hyperbolic fear-mongering don’t help anybody.
As long as we don’t throw up such byzantine barriers to entry, including refugees in need of asylum reviews, that we hurt ourselves as well as deserving immigrants, and this also requires that we cut out all the weaponized xenophobia demonizing various strata of immigrants who have done nothing to deserve that demonization. Easier said than done. And polarizing takes like the one I responded to are a huge part of the problem.
We also need workers. Regular blue collar and lower blue collar workers. Who do think works the farms or construction sites? Do you not realize the positive impact they have on the economy?
Probably just a complete accident that those “ants at a summer picnic” didn’t make JohnnieHolmesNole/FWTS’ invitation list of THOSE ARE THE FOLKS WE WANT HERE,
Or American exceptionalism don’t need no ants.
I imagine the thought process there is to let workers come in illegally, feign ignorance when they are cleaning your pool, washing your clothes and mowing your lawn. But by no means should they every be allowed legal citizenship. EVER!
Sad but very likely true in many cases.
Last edited:
“The folks we want here”. How do you spell dog whistle? You mean the folks that come from Europe? Of course white Europeans more than others have a really bad habit of overstaying their visas. I wonder how many of “that crowd” have landscaped your yard, replaced your roof or painted your house. And one more thing, if you are of Irish, Polish, German or Italian extraction, your ancestors experienced the same treatment from the Mayflower/Puritan ‘crowd’ over the past 150 years.
Yep, it's kind of disturbing how easy it is to identify the most likely acolytes of Tucker Carlson and The Great Replacement Theory on these boards. Hard to believe we're entering 2023 with this crap still running rampant.
I love it that you said what you said. Way back in the '80's, I was objecting to my train friends, (commuting from CT to Manhattan), a broker friend of my explained it to me. Exactly or pretty much as you said it. I objected to the Brazilians living in a house, maybe 8 of them, working and sending so much money back to Brazil and not contributing to the US, Well, he explained it to me, and said that it was a good thing for us. They did the jobs that no Americans wanted to do, they spent money here, and it was a good thing for our economy. Yes, they built a city out of the dirt in Brazil, but at the same time, they contributed greatly, and they are what is called, "the underground economy". From that point on, I had a different attitude.
Last edited:
And that's where we need to educate ourselves. I can communicate in seven languages. Granted, that is largely due to my growing up overseas and living in foreign countries, but also due to my desire to learn about other cultures. But, that does not mean that the American people should sit back and say, "everyone should speak English".
We are the greatest nation on earth in some respects, but we are also one of the most arrogant. If you grow up in Europe, you learn other languages and cultures. It's the norm. Even the French speak more than one language.
Foreign "blue collar" workers that immigrated here, due to political persecution in their countries, worked menial jobs, learned English and became citizens. They do that, you know.
Why won't some people want to afford them the opportunity?
I have stories about that. (but I usually do, because for some strange reason in my life, I have been destined to have these experiences, all of which have shaped my beliefs, and sometimes, changed my attitude)
I'm dead tired, but before I crash, one of the reasons that I have so many stories is the way I was raised.
My family had a lot of associations with immigrants over the years and I was exposed to them. I had the opportunity to learn from those people at a very young age, and they were mostly European, Irish, Scottish, German Jews, Italians, Poles, in particular. By the time I was six years old, I had tasted their food and heard about their lives.
I came from an old Southern family that started in the colonial times. And, that should be enough.
I'd venture to say that no one on these boards could identify the ethnic background of the majority of immigrants in each century. When I was doing genealogy research, I was surprised, because it was not what I thought at all. Just a hint. It wasn't Irish and it wasn't English.
My family had a lot of associations with immigrants over the years and I was exposed to them. I had the opportunity to learn from those people at a very young age, and they were mostly European, Irish, Scottish, German Jews, Italians, Poles, in particular. By the time I was six years old, I had tasted their food and heard about their lives.
I came from an old Southern family that started in the colonial times. And, that should be enough.
I'd venture to say that no one on these boards could identify the ethnic background of the majority of immigrants in each century. When I was doing genealogy research, I was surprised, because it was not what I thought at all. Just a hint. It wasn't Irish and it wasn't English.
This is our lifeblood as a country. I imagine some accept it and some choose to ignore it. I also appreciate your experiences, they sound awesome and we can all learn from them.
So the way to handle the “need for workers” is to open the borders, close our eyes, and let God-knows-who pour into the country? Like only industrious and well-intentioned people will jump in that line?
It’s almost laughable. We have this “homeland security” outfit that spends trillions of dollars to (supposedly) protect the homeland. Any American citizen — including 80 year old ladies who pose no threat to anyone — must be ID’d and body scanned before taking a short flight from, say, Tallahassee to Atlanta. Can’t be too careful, you know. But when it comes to the southern border, we just hope for the best and let millions of complete unknowns zoom right in.
Surely there won’t be any ne’er-do-wells in that parade. No terrorists. No criminals. No drug dealers. No mentally ill people. By God, WE NEED WORKERS says the liberal left — to replace all of the bozos on the welfare dole — so let’s just open the gates. But someone please pat down that white-haired Tallahassee grandma….I think I may have seen a crochet hook in her bag.
Laughable. Everyone knows what is really going on here. But if folks want to justify the insanity on a “we need workers” rationale, well, so be it.
Move the goalpost much? You said all that was needed was white collar immigrants. Tell me how much you think illegal immigrants contribute annually to the economy. Before I see your answer, I bet you're wrong.
LOL. This whole discussion has been about illegal immigation, and, more specifically, the fiasco on the southern border. You chimed in with "we need workers" -- following the narrative of Pelosi and Schumer -- like "that" somehow justifies or legitimizes the border fiasco.
My point was that the USA has a very rigorous system for people who actually try to comply with the immigration laws. You know, responsible and non-risky folks who could make some important contributions in the USA. But as to the law-breaking masses -- people whose backgrounds and intentions are completely unknown -- our "leaders" yawn and pretend there isn't a problem, and welcome that group with open arms. Surely everyone sees the obvious "differences" in how those immigration classes are being treated.
Ignoring obvious national security issues -- and many others -- for the sake of "getting more workers" is beyond absurd. Pretty obvious what is really going on with the southern border, but let's just stick to the basics.
Yikes. “Everyone knows what is really going on here.” Go ahead speaker for WHO WE REALLY WANT. Tell us what everyone knows is “really going on here.”
And if your original complaint was really just about issues with security (which very clearly from both your original rants is not what drives your fears and disgust), then why did your entire first rant focus on white collar professionals vs all those unwashed dangerous vermin?
Louder than a dog whistle, more like a bullhorn.
In reference to the poster whose very loud and proud all caps bigotry in this thread is getting the pushback (and who coincidentally made himself very clear in the Vote or Die thread with his clever commentary about whites having to prop up all those tax-dodging welfare nonwhites)…
Do you think his choice of wording here was just innocently and accidentally clumsy and that all us far leftists are just ignoring deficiencies in US immigration policy, resources and execution by pointing out how misguided, offensive and unproductive his takes are?
You do see how ironic that comment is coming from you, right?
Anyone to the left of you, the “centrist”, is by definition a “far leftist”, even if they’ve espoused no basket of “far left” ideology.
Hmm.
I believe Bandit is actually to the left of me politically only because he has gone so far to the right he's almost completed the circle. Of course, in his "centrist" mind, he doesn't recognize that and will surely react to this post with a laughing emoji.
Nope. I’ve never said anything about defund the police (I think it’s ridiculous and always have… some aspects of policing clearly need reform, but hell no to defund the police.)
Also, please point out where I said I’m a centrist. I merely pushed back on your repeated illusions that you are.
If I had to put myself on some far left to far right spectrum, with the actual “center” of melting pot America in the center, I’d say I’m moderately left of center. I wish we had more palatable moderate options to vote for.
One thing you seem incapable of grasping is that there’s a pretty wide spectrum of beliefs between centrist and “far left”. I’ve voted for plenty of GOPers in my lifetime, pre-MAGA takeover, and have always tended to be slightly right of center on fiscal policy, increasingly left of center on social policy after I left the small town South cocoon and listened to, worked with, lived among a much more diverse community and learned how misguided so many “right” concerns about other folk truly are. But never “far left” on just about anything.
I’m all about shades of grey, nuance and multiple things being true at the same time. And that empathy is not a weakness.
And not being shy about pushing back on BS regardless of which emojis that will draw from the peanut gallery.
Please feel free to point out specifically what leads you to peg me as far left even when I’ve made clear I don’t share far left ideology, have never voted far left, etc.
Being openminded and having genuine empathy for marginalized others (as opposed to dangerously loud rightwing bigots) is not just the purview of radical leftists.
Last edited:
- Status
