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Is it possible to discuss gun control, the issue of mass shootings...

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Is it our own self-induced paranoia...similar to bikes and kid's helmets? I never wore a helmet as a kid and now if my kid were to go without one I'd be looking over my shoulder for CPS.

Press doesn’t focus on it with the same intensity:

“According to the Bike Helmet Safety Institute,57 percent of bicycle-related fatalities can be prevented by using a protective helmet. Over 135 deaths, 40,000 head injuries, and 20,000 scalp and face injuries suffered by children between ages 4 and 15 can be reduced through the use of bicycle helmets.“
 
Good thread, hopefully we can continue to discuss. I’ve said I would be in favor of starting with all of these:

1. Ban ARs (and the like), it has worked in other countries and I think if the USA could follow the examples of other freedom countries around the world

2. Close all loopholes, there are some even mentioned in this thread ( there are many of them especially underground/ gun shows)

3. People with mental illness (even if it's on SSRIs/depression) should not be allowed to get a gun. Life isn’t fair I’m sorry...

4. License- Sweden has a year long process before you can get a gun that includes training sessions, practice with professionals etc. I like this.
 
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My own personal uninformed amateur opinion...

I don't think it's about access to guns or mental health. It's that the "light at the end of the tunnel" is getting smaller and smaller for more and more people. There's a rapidly growing divide between the "haves" and the "have nots". It's getting to where the "have nots" no longer see themselves as having a chance to succeed or even do as well as their parents did. A growing number of kids are resigned to the belief that the "American Dream" isn't meant for them. That resignation can manifest itself in different ways - some of which can be self-harming, some of which can be to harm others...

- I'm 18yo - I see no path for success and this may be as good as my life ever gets.

- If my own life has no value, then why should I value the lives of others?

- I can either live out my life in poverty and complete anonymity, or I can do something that gets me noticed/remembered.

I don't think you address gun violence/mass murder/etc until you address the chances (or their perception, at least) that these kids can have "successful", fulfilling lives. If you look at the other countries that don't have the same problems, I don't think that it's the gun laws that are the difference, it's that the people there still see themselves as part of the plan. They have purpose and they have hope. Fewer and fewer people - especially kids - in the US have that. I get that it sounds Socialist, and that in this country that's a really bad stigma to attach to anything, but that's what it is - a society where everyone can still have a part to play, even if we're eliminating all of the manufacturing jobs that used to let Americans have good, middle class lives.

I think it's difficult to see from where we stand, because admittedly this group in here is largely the top 1% of the 1% in everything. But not everyone grows up with the same hopes and dreams and goals that we do. Those that don't see the prospect of living the next 60+ years as a "have not", and not all of them are prepared to live like that.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it...
 
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Question- rightfully so a lot has been made of the police/ resource officer that did not enter the school at the Parkland shooting.

I’ve heard conspiracy theories that , well you probably have heard them as well, that we can’t really mention them here....nor do I buy into any of them.

Do you think the officer got stage freight or something similar? I’m simply amazed this happened and am wondering if anyone can offer up some thoughts as to what happened? I don’t know if he could have stopped anything but that’s not the question...
 
My own personal uninformed amateur opinion...

I don't think it's about access to guns or mental health. It's that the "light at the end of the tunnel" is getting smaller and smaller for more and more people. There's a rapidly growing divide between the "haves" and the "have nots". It's getting to where the "have nots" no longer see themselves as having a chance to succeed or even do as well as their parents did. A growing number of kids are resigned to the belief that the "American Dream" isn't meant for them. That resignation can manifest itself in different ways - some of which can be self-harming, some of which can be to harm others...

- I'm 18yo - I see no path for success and this may be as good as my life ever gets.

- If my own life has no value, then why should I value the lives of others?

- I can either live out my life in poverty and complete anonymity, or I can do something that gets me noticed/remembered.

I don't think you address gun violence/mass murder/etc until you address the chances (or their perception, at least) that these kids can have "successful", fulfilling lives. If you look at the other countries that don't have the same problems, I don't think that it's the gun laws that are the difference, it's that the people there still see themselves as part of the plan. They have purpose and they have hope. Fewer and fewer people - especially kids - in the US have that. I get that it sounds Socialist, and that in this country that's a really bad stigma to attach to anything, but that's what it is - a society where everyone can still have a part to play, even if we're eliminating all of the manufacturing jobs that used to let Americans have good, middle class lives.

I think it's difficult to see from where we stand, because admittedly this group in here is largely the top 1% of the 1% in everything. But not everyone grows up with the same hopes and dreams and goals that we do. Those that don't see the prospect of living the next 60+ years as a "have not", and not all of them are prepared to live like that.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it...
Except a lot of the mass shooters aren't low-income people with no options. In many cases, it's the opposite.
 
Question- rightfully so a lot has been made of the police/ resource officer that did not enter the school at the Parkland shooting.

I’ve heard conspiracy theories that , well you probably have heard them as well, that we can’t really mention them here....nor do I buy into any of them.

Do you think the officer got stage freight or something similar? I’m simply amazed this happened and am wondering if anyone can offer up some thoughts as to what happened? I don’t know if he could have stopped anything but that’s not the question...

I think he didn't enter for the same reason the cops in the LA bank robbery years ago hid behind their cars. He heard the rifle pops and he looked at his hand gun and he knew he was outgunned so he hid and waited. Not everyone is willing to risk certain death when the moment comes.
 
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Great discussion and thanks to everyone for keeping politics out of this. One of my hopes is to gather compromising options and present them to our state legislators. I've already reached out last week and plan to reach out again (and again as necessary).

I don't want my kids to feel they need to stage a protest because the adults in their lives won't get anything done.
 
I have a lot of mixed thoughts on what should be done. On one hand, I agree that if someone is in the school, shooting people, that it might be good to have some armed teachers to hopefully end the carnage. But I'm not interested in arming everyone, and I'm not in favor of simply providing bonuses to any teacher/employee who gets his concealed carry permit. The requirements for getting the permit are simply too lenient - it's something like a few hour course. I have some friends who have permits & I find it scary that they are carrying (from my personal knowledge of them, their habits, and their personalities, I know that they'd be more of a potential hazard than potential help.
I'm also far more interested in finding ways to prevent it from happening in the first place than I am in finding ways to stop it once it's begun. Frankly, at the schools my sons attend (and almost certainly at the schools your kids attend), anyone could go at certain times and easily kill/injure a large number of people before a guard could respond, even if every adult on the property were armed.
 
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Yeah, I just want my kids to stop feeling (justifiably) scared. There was another lockdown at one of my kids schools friday because of a threat of violence. This just a month or so after my son's HS was locked down to a handgun on campus and a few days after a nearby HS locked down for the same.
 
The problem is that these solutions should not take away anyone's rights without due process. It's more important to preserve freedom than it is to try and prevent every possible tragedy. We also have to be realistic in what the government does when given a little power. It's abused greatly.

There were heros in that school. Kids teachers and coaches acted heroically. Unfortunately the officer on duty there acted cowardly as did the first officers to arrive on scene. We should allow teachers and coaches to be armed if the are so qualified. Not require it, but allow it. We also shouldn't design schools like prisons, with little or no escape options.

You cannot prevent all tragedy, giving up our freedom that made this country great isn't good option. Allowing people to protect themselves and others is the right thing to do.
I appreciate your opinion - certainly I've heard the same from others, and I'm sure you've heard opinions such as mine from others.

Therein lay our impasse. While both wanting to reduce these types of massacres, I find your solution untenable, if not dangerous, and likely you feel the same way about mine.

I have no problem w/ folks having guns, I have a huge problem with it being too easy for unfit persons to obtain guns that make killing uber-efficient. I'm not content to shrug my shoulders and say Vegas, Sandy Hook, Parkland etc... are just costs of 'preserving freedom' when we have reasonable solutions at our disposal that still honor your 2nd Amendment rights. The slippery slope argument of government overreach doesn't hold water compared to the actual data that shows us sliding down a steep slope of shooting massacres.
 
Magazine capacity limits seem like the most likely scenario.

I wonder if there will be a push to somehow regulate/record ammunition sales.

Someone at work-- a young guy probably 25 said this same thing last week. It was the first time I had heard of it. Specifically he said because it will be almost impossible to modify or change the 2nd Amendment (not sure how accurate that is) what is the most likely scenario is a loophole regarding the 2nd amendment-- go after the ammo instead. I don't even know how that would work. So you can only purchase a certain amount or ban all ammo that an AR15 (for example) would use? If it's amount they would need to be entered into the system, logged and then flagged if the person came back the very next day.... I'm surprised the NRA isn't working to update the amendment faster than it can be used against them
 
I think he didn't enter for the same reason the cops in the LA bank robbery years ago hid behind their cars. He heard the rifle pops and he looked at his hand gun and he knew he was outgunned so he hid and waited. Not everyone is willing to risk certain death when the moment comes.

Damn.... brutal. As a law enforcement officer shouldn't it be known that this could happen one day? I get it-- it's a scary situation-- probably the reason why I could never be a cop.... but him knowing what is going on....ugh
 
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Speaking of school design, there are so many places in this country that you could never breach with a gun. Shouldn't schools be on that list? Why not automate the doors of every classroom to where, with a push of a button, they can not be breached? There are so many things we can do in schools that aren't being done that may not save every life, but they would save a lot more
Two thoughts here:
1) schools are already low on cash - hardening them with automatic doors, bullet proof windows, etc... is a billion+ dollar exercise.
2) even if we did, what of the bus ramp, or our churches, concerts, nightclubs, etc... a deranged person has any number of places to target - how many things will we be willing to harden?

Do you think the officer got stage freight or something similar? I’m simply amazed this happened and am wondering if anyone can offer up some thoughts as to what happened? I don’t know if he could have stopped anything but that’s not the question...
I think he thought to himself "I've been serving for 30 years and am about to retire and I've only got a handgun. I need to wait for the cavalry to arrive before I go in there like a movie hero." I'm not saying that's right or wrong (based on the job he signed up for, it seems wrong) but it is most certainly rational.

I was listening to a podcast yesterday where a police chief was saying School Resource Officers are usually late in their career and just looking for a cushy 8a-4p gig.
 
Except a lot of the mass shooters aren't low-income people with no options. In many cases, it's the opposite.
Perception is reality though. If they feel like they're not going to live up to expectations or be able to replicate what their parents achieved and expected of them, then isn't that the same feeling? I think it could be some of the same feelings/factors that make so many affluent kids commit suicide when it looks from the outside that they have everything going for them.
 
Someone at work-- a young guy probably 25 said this same thing last week. It was the first time I had heard of it. Specifically he said because it will be almost impossible to modify or change the 2nd Amendment (not sure how accurate that is) what is the most likely scenario is a loophole regarding the 2nd amendment-- go after the ammo instead. I don't even know how that would work. So you can only purchase a certain amount or ban all ammo that an AR15 (for example) would use? If it's amount they would need to be entered into the system, logged and then flagged if the person came back the very next day.... I'm surprised the NRA isn't working to update the amendment faster than it can be used against them
I guess you could make gunpowder a federally controlled/regulated substance. Seems like most other countries have restrictions around possessing the ingredients and making gunpowder.
 
Perception is reality though. If they feel like they're not going to live up to expectations or be able to replicate what their parents achieved and expected of them, then isn't that the same feeling? I think it could be some of the same feelings/factors that make so many affluent kids commit suicide when it looks from the outside that they have everything going for them.
I think the issue with "lack of hope" is certainly a problem in society, but it's currently a global phenomena.
So why are we the only nation with a gun massacre problem - I suppose the middle east has a car bombing problem, with theoretically similar roots in a lack of hope but there, individuals are then more easily indoctrinated into a cult of evil behavior as opposed to doing it on their own.

As someone else pointed out, quantifiably, it's not America's very poorest who are committing these massacres. As yet, I can't buy into the economic theory you're putting forth for these massacres.

Tangential to this thread, I'd be interested in examining the pathology of American mass shooters and Muslim terrorists - both generally tend to come from a variety of socioeconomic backgrounds but perhaps lash out for some of the same reasons - desperate, delusional, brainwashed into hateful thinking, etc...
 
Speaking of school design, there are so many places in this country that you could never breach with a gun. Shouldn't schools be on that list? Why not automate the doors of every classroom to where, with a push of a button, they can not be breached? There are so many things we can do in schools that aren't being done that may not save every life, but they would save a lot more

Fortifying the doors might help, but what about when kids are out on the basketball court, or the field, during PE? Or standing around at the bus loop waiting to load the bus (or at the car loop, waiting for a parent to pick them up?

My local middle school has at least 8 or 9 separate buildings, along with a handful of portable classrooms; throughout the day, kids are going from building to building for the next class. They're outside, in the open, at that time, too.

That's the problem with the notions of arming the teachers, or putting a cop/cops on every campus, or having armed volunteers (veterans, off-duty cops, etc) and thinking that solves it. Those things might reduce the carnage if there's an active shooter, but they certainly don't do anything to prevent it from happening.
 
At this point, amending the Constitution is a pipe dream. To repeal or even change the 2nd would take a 2/3 vote of Congress and then a 2/3 vote of all states. That's just not going to happen. Those arguing for this on either side would be better served focusing on gun control laws.

Any change is going to have to come with stricter gun control laws. I agree with many of the things already mentioned in this post.

Stricter background checks
Any history of mental illness, and you can never legally own a gun
Severe punishment and fines for anyone involved in selling guns illegally to anyone. Especially if that weapon is later used to commit a crime.

My main question revolves around whether it is any easier to get guns now than back in the 80s? My dad had all sorts of weapons from normal rifles to what would be considered assault weapons. They were always locked up and secured, but I do not recall that it was even that hard for him to by those weapons back then. These kinds of school shootings were not commonplace back in the 80s when I was in elementary, middle and high school.

I've often wondered if the mental health aspect of this plays a larger role in what has been going on in recent years.
 
You don't have to rewrite the 2nd amendment, you just have to go back to what it was designed to protect.
Burger.jpg
 
My main question revolves around whether it is any easier to get guns now than back in the 80s? My dad had all sorts of weapons from normal rifles to what would be considered assault weapons. They were always locked up and secured, but I do not recall that it was even that hard for him to by those weapons back then. These kinds of school shootings were not commonplace back in the 80s when I was in elementary, middle and high school.
Goes back to my earlier question of then vs now.

As stated earlier, I had two unlocked, loaded weapons in my bedroom. My dad had an open wall rack with four guns on it; bottom two (a 30-30 and 10 gauge double-barrel) were always loaded. During my senior year, my parents were separated and rarely home so I did what every red-blooded, American teenager did--threw parties! I regularly had a house full of drunk teenagers and oddly the 6 easily accessible guns were never touched. Ever.

Fast forward to today...I have just as many guns but they are locked up like gold in Fort Knox. Why?
 
It's a tough question. One thing I told my kids is that while it's sad and horrible that they need to be more afraid of an incident like this than I was...in general, they are living in a safer world every minute of every day than I was, or the generation before that. They should feel safer overall in their life, less likely to be the victim of a murder or violent crime. Not that it makes this any better, but I just tried to bring some perspective.

The bottom line is that there is flat out going to be a limit to how much you can infringe a right in the constitution, which makes "what other countries did" interesting at most, but mostly useless. As I told my daughter when she pulled the old "musket" deal...do you think the founding fathers imagined the internet? The first amendment protected freaking pamphlets posted on walls. Is she ok with government censoring the internet as a result? Because an AR looks a lot more like a musket with similar properties than a pamphlet looks like Snapchat. That's not to take a stand on whether the 2nd amendment is good or bad...just some perspective about what we're dealing with and the reality of some of the most restrictive measures. Unless you think there is some chance of 2A appeal, you need to work within what you've got.

I think you need to make it easier for law enforcement to intervene and take guns from people that are problematic. I think the idea of a gun restraining order has promise.

I think you need to make background checks universal and more foolproof. I also don't know if this stands up constitutionally, but when a background check fails on a really bad person, with a violent history, etc...not sure that's not worth LE stopping by for a little chat. If there was some way to cross reference credible concerns reported about people with attempts to buy guns, etc. Whatever we can think about to allow intervention without trampling due process rights.

I think you have to highly reconsider exempting person to person sales from regulation. Perhaps force person to person sales to be made through a consignment at an authorized dealer, so checks could be properly made. We have other products, like cigarettes and prescription drugs, that you can't sell person to person.

I think you definitely have to look at some of the modifications around bump stocks and high capacities. I'm open to regulating ammo to some extent, but I'm not sure how practical that would actually be.

I think if activists and noisemakers and politicians would stand up and universally acknowledge constitutional limits means there will be a limit on how far regulation can go, it would help. Because no matter how often they say "We're not going to take away your guns", the current running just below the surface is usually "we'd like to take away all guns." The political side of this makes sure the gun control side keeps the most radical activists stoked, and spooks gun people who are for open to reasonable measures. Some of the "blood on your hands" rhetoric coming out is very destructive, because the thinking is "If you literally think I am a child murderer because I own a gun or am an NRA member, then you can't tell me you don't want all my guns. You just said I'm a child murderer."

On the other side, I think the NRA has largely outlived their value, and the right needs to consider letting them fall away. This is largely their own fault, as they've become mostly a partisan, political Republican group, instead of a non-partisan single issue action group. And the amount of money they donate isn't that great. I don't think Republicans are well served by NRA affiliation now, and I don't think the NRA has been a reasonable, helpful voice in the debate for a couple decades. Gun owners need better representation in this discussion.

And I think extreme security measures for schools are coming. You can definitely fix this, you just have to be willing to pay the price, like we did with airlines. I told my kids that they're going to tell THEIR kids about how they just walked in and out of school like nothing. Just like the old-timers used to talk about just walking through the airport and onto a plane with their bag with no security, flying on each others tickets, etc.

But at the end of the day, this will eventually recede. Unfortunately, this is the "act out" dejour for the disturbed, deranged loser looking to thrash out at the world. Like hijackings and assassinations, this will pass when it no longer gets the desired effect, or it's no longer "easy". I do wish the national media would virtually not cover it...I'm not convinced that the national news coverage serves the public, and I'm pretty sure it exacerbates future events by showing how it's done, how big an impact it has, etc. The media doesn't cover suicides because they are contagious...I wonder how much some media restraint around these outside of the local community effected would take the edge off of these. I know that's not going to happen.
 
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I see references here that have me truly curious as to the mechanisms of enacting:

  • "History of mental illness" - how would this be documented? On average, how many Americans voluntarily go for psyche evals? "Oh, I'm feeling depressed lately and for an extended period of time, I better go get checked out." Great thought process though a rarity. How many mental wellness visits does the average insurance plan cover before a deductible is met, which would then be a non-starter once visits become out of pocket?
  • "Limit magazine capacity" - okay, we can go to the manufacturers and legally forbid them from manufacturing any magazine larger than 12 rounds capacity, but that only works on domestically run factories. We already can't prevent illegal import of narcotics, how would we possibly prevent illegal import of firearms and magazines?
  • "Stricter purchase guidelines for firearms; close the loopholes" - again, drugs are illegal and are VERY readily available, and are now being manufactured with alternative ingredients... what would make this any different with firearms or weapons of terror?
  • The 4th Amendment is where we need to look, not the 2nd. The 2nd is antiquated as it is, but the 4th is very much easier to adapt to current times. What would the feasibility be of enacting local sheriff's offices in conducting voluntary property searches for unregistered weapons, then enlisting federal resources for involuntary? "Dallas County SO sends out a memorandum that between these dates, a deputy or otherwise authorized representative will be on-site to conduct an orderly and respectful search for any and all firearms or otherwise classified weapons of terror. If you elect to decline this voluntary search and documentation, the Dept of Homeland Security, ATF and/or likewise federal agency will be contacted to conduct a similar search pursuant to Executive Order ----, temporarily suspending the protection offered under the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution."
 
You don't have to rewrite the 2nd amendment, you just have to go back to what it was designed to protect.
Burger.jpg

But this is exactly the same argument that takes place on the other side about pornography and the 1st Amendment. That the 1A wasn't designed to protect jack material. But it is what it is...living document has won.

I agree obviously about "unfettered right to any kind of weapon", but that's not what we have now, and I think it's worth calibrating where the lines are drawn.

I just don't think the constant revisitation of the 2nd as if it's archaic or "wrong" or misunderstood is likely to get anywhere.
 
Had a thought out response about "what the founders meant vs how it is applied now", but Lou kinda nailed it, so you get a gold star Lou.
 
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I see references here that have me truly curious as to the mechanisms of enacting:

  • "History of mental illness" - how would this be documented? On average, how many Americans voluntarily go for psyche evals? "Oh, I'm feeling depressed lately and for an extended period of time, I better go get checked out." Great thought process though a rarity. How many mental wellness visits does the average insurance plan cover before a deductible is met, which would then be a non-starter once visits become out of pocket?
  • "Limit magazine capacity" - okay, we can go to the manufacturers and legally forbid them from manufacturing any magazine larger than 12 rounds capacity, but that only works on domestically run factories. We already can't prevent illegal import of narcotics, how would we possibly prevent illegal import of firearms and magazines?
  • "Stricter purchase guidelines for firearms; close the loopholes" - again, drugs are illegal and are VERY readily available, and are now being manufactured with alternative ingredients... what would make this any different with firearms or weapons of terror?
  • The 4th Amendment is where we need to look, not the 2nd. The 2nd is antiquated as it is, but the 4th is very much easier to adapt to current times. What would the feasibility be of enacting local sheriff's offices in conducting voluntary property searches for unregistered weapons, then enlisting federal resources for involuntary? "Dallas County SO sends out a memorandum that between these dates, a deputy or otherwise authorized representative will be on-site to conduct an orderly and respectful search for any and all firearms or otherwise classified weapons of terror. If you elect to decline this voluntary search and documentation, the Dept of Homeland Security, ATF and/or likewise federal agency will be contacted to conduct a similar search pursuant to Executive Order ----, temporarily suspending the protection offered under the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution."

Good thoughts. I think these work together. I don't think anyone thinks that making them illegal wipes them off the face of the earth...but if these are illegal items with harsh penalties, then you can actually subject them to law enforcement scrutiny and action. It's not going to stop every tragic use, but if someone has to break the law a dozen times to acquire and keep the elements that make these incidents so destructive, then the chance of them being intercepted by law enforcement before "the big day" is so much greater.

It goes with your last point...for the most part hands are tied on this stuff when nobody's committed a crime until they fire the first bullet.
 
Someone at work-- a young guy probably 25 said this same thing last week. It was the first time I had heard of it. Specifically he said because it will be almost impossible to modify or change the 2nd Amendment (not sure how accurate that is) what is the most likely scenario is a loophole regarding the 2nd amendment-- go after the ammo instead. I don't even know how that would work. So you can only purchase a certain amount or ban all ammo that an AR15 (for example) would use? If it's amount they would need to be entered into the system, logged and then flagged if the person came back the very next day.... I'm surprised the NRA isn't working to update the amendment faster than it can be used against them

Ammo is also protected by the 2nd amendment. We have the right to bear arms, not firearms. The definition of arms is "weapons and ammunition". We have a right to it all. Also, the round used in an AR15 is a very popular hunting round. There isn't a round that only works in an AR15.
 
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Can not get a link to work but this Harvard prof has a different view that what we are espoused on all the 24/7 news casts. I may have to look into this one.

shopping
 
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Ammo is also protected by the 2nd amendment. We have the right to bear arms, not firearms. The definition of arms is "weapons and ammunition". We have a right to it all. Also, the round used in an AR15 is a very popular hunting round. There isn't a round that only works in an AR15.

This is my thought when I said it's probably not practical...even if you were to ban certain ammunition, they'd create guns that used popular hunting ammo. Didn't even realize the AR15 already did.

I'm not a gun person.
 
Ammo is also protected by the 2nd amendment. We have the right to bear arms, not firearms. The definition of arms is "weapons and ammunition". We have a right to it all. Also, the round used in an AR15 is a very popular hunting round. There isn't a round that only works in an AR15.
How many mass shooters have actually used an AR, though? (not saying we don't
Can not get a link to work but this Harvard prof has a different view that what we are espoused on all the 24/7 news casts. I may have to look into this one.

shopping
Didn't Michael more tout in one of his videos that crime was down X% since the 70's, but the reporting of crime is up 600%?

pcolaqktpx1z.jpg
 
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Do you think the officer got stage freight or something similar? I’m simply amazed this happened and am wondering if anyone can offer up some thoughts as to what happened? I don’t know if he could have stopped anything but that’s not the question...

I don’t think running to the sound of gunfire is inherent to many.

“Engagement is a tricky thing to track, before World War II the only indicator of how efficient each side was at killing were firing rates of troops. No one had committed themselves to studying engaging the enemy until U.S. Army Brigadier General S.L.A. Marshall took it upon himself to interview thousands of troops in more than 400 infantry companies after direct combat with German and Japanese forces. His single consistent finding in all his research was “Only 15 to 20 percent of the American riflemen in combat during World War II would fire at the enemy””
 
Fast forward to today...I have just as many guns but they are locked up like gold in Fort Knox. Why?

Compare accidental firearm injury rates (e.g. Jr finds a loaded firearm in dad’s nightstand) between then and now.


“A study from 1991-2000 showed that twice as many people died from unintentional firearm injuries in states in the U.S. where firearm owners were more likely to store their firearms loaded.”
 
I've thought it would be good to have something like a lautenberg amendment for juveniles who get aggressive felonies.

E.G. you get thrown out of school, or get a violence felony you are flagged and may never buy any type of automatic weapon.
 
my question to everyone here is about the police who showed up later. From discussions over the years here in the LR, my understanding was that the tactic the cops would take normally would be to contain the situation, take up a position and wait. This appears to be what they did. However when I do searches for this, I'm seeing they supposedly changed after Columbine. I realize this is probably a city by city or county by county policy, but when they review the actions of the police who showed up, my guess is they acted within their SOP. Whether that needs to change is another question.

What say you?
 
This is my thought when I said it's probably not practical...even if you were to ban certain ammunition, they'd create guns that used popular hunting ammo. Didn't even realize the AR15 already did.

I'm not a gun person.

You can get an AR lower that will accept just about anything.
You can get one that takes pistol mags (9mm, 45 ACP, etc) or if you want to save money plinking .22LR, or go big with old .308.
 
I see references here that have me truly curious as to the mechanisms of enacting:

  • "History of mental illness" - how would this be documented?
  • "Limit magazine capacity" - We already can't prevent illegal import of narcotics, how would we possibly prevent illegal import of firearms and magazines?
  • "Stricter purchase guidelines for firearms; close the loopholes" - again, drugs are illegal and are VERY readily available,
  • The 4th Amendment is where we need to look, not the 2nd.
(Shortened your bullet points for brevity)

1 - would require a mental eval prior to gun purchase and/or getting ownership license. would require subsequent evals on a periodic basis (2-3 years?)

2 - mag capacity - we successfully interdict tons of drugs annually, in doing so we force smugglers to constantly change their practices, which takes money, which then results in the price of their goods rising and availability difficult to track - making it more difficult to buy - i see that as a deterrent as opposed to being able to buy a high cap magazine at the local sporting good store. yes, some criminals will do it, but it'll be a hassle and risk, which will thin the heard and save lives.

3 - see above. laws and guidelines will drive up the price of contraband goods, making it more difficult to find, more costly to obtain, more likely to result in being discovered. won't be perfect but will reduce the ability of the unfit to get their hands on a gun.

4 - 4th amendment - backlash to this would be tremendous, much more so than regulating gun sales.
 
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