Until now, Kinsman had no subpoena power, and no ability to compel people to talk to them, under oath, or to force them to fork over records. The media never had that ability. Rest assured that the dig for dirt is only just beginning. Not saying there is any dirt there, but they will dig to China looking for it.
Jameis files counter-suit
- Thread starter montconole
- Start date
Until now, Kinsman had no subpoena power, and no ability to compel people to talk to them, under oath, or to force them to fork over records. The media never had that ability. Rest assured that the dig for dirt is only just beginning. Not saying there is any dirt there, but they will dig to China looking for it.
Sure they do. All the time. Standard confidentiality terms are a clear restriction on speech and they are enforced all the time. Enforcing a private agreement is not the same as direct state action on speech.
Her attorney keeps saying that Jameis will not be able to hide from questions anymore but what he seems to be forgetting is neither will she!! The facts won't be kind to her in a trial.
I think the whole cleat chaser thing shows she has more to hide. Not to mention keeping Jamal Roberts relationship not just from her parents but friends. Oh and let's not forget that Aunt Pat has made racist comments and the rumor of her parents being racists. This can go very badly for her.
He said that last time before he walked into the COC room. Any new evidence get presented? No, because that what Clune does create a media stir and not rely on facts.
This point always made me laugh...so she leaves with three guys she "doesn't know" and claims she is assaulted...but she was drinking with her other friends at the bar and knew other people in the bar...so she never asked her other friends that were there or any other people in the bar she might have known who the three guys were that she was dancing with or drinking with? Three FSU football players go into a bar in Tally and absolutely no one knows who they are? I get it if she says she might not know them, but no one else did? Please....even with out the police the networking power of her friends (people knowing others knowing others in the bar) should have garnered a name especially if they were trying to track down someone who attacked a friend of theirs....sounds more like they were biding time to make a alternative plan...
The critical allegation here is that she and Winston texted. If he can prove that it's game set match.
I have to admit I'm confused about this claim, though. If it's provable it would have been used by Jansen from early on. At the very least it would have been part of the Meggs investigation. It's the most clear and direct evidence of her being a liar. Even the media couldn't have ignored that. So if it exists we would know, and if it doesn't, it seems a very bad fact upon which to rely.
I have to admit I'm confused about this claim, though. If it's provable it would have been used by Jansen from early on. At the very least it would have been part of the Meggs investigation. It's the most clear and direct evidence of her being a liar. Even the media couldn't have ignored that. So if it exists we would know, and if it doesn't, it seems a very bad fact upon which to rely.
I live for that woman's cross examination.
This will be even more entertaining than F. Lee Bailey's verbal castration of Mark Fuhrman. Kinsman is caught in six separate lies on many, many critical points. Bring the fatted calf to the altar for the inevitable slaughter.
This will be even more entertaining than F. Lee Bailey's verbal castration of Mark Fuhrman. Kinsman is caught in six separate lies on many, many critical points. Bring the fatted calf to the altar for the inevitable slaughter.
There are posts here in the LR with links to the PDF.
It's on the first page of this thread, just click on the post by nickwms and click download to scribe, the app is free to download.
Kinsmans attorneys quote to Cnn..
John Clune, who is Kinsman's lawyer, responded by saying Winston's "counterclaims put all of his prior misconduct and background front and center in the case by alleging injury to his 'good reputation.'
"The burden of proof is now on him," Clune said. "Refusing to answer questions and smearing people in the media aren't going to fly here. I'm not sure how well that will end up for him in this case."
John Clune, who is Kinsman's lawyer, responded by saying Winston's "counterclaims put all of his prior misconduct and background front and center in the case by alleging injury to his 'good reputation.'
"The burden of proof is now on him," Clune said. "Refusing to answer questions and smearing people in the media aren't going to fly here. I'm not sure how well that will end up for him in this case."
The video of Ms. Kinsman's deposition will be more entertaining than any Nole football game in 2015. I love skillful cross examination, and this will be a classic for the ages. A not-so-bright airhead who's already fed Cornwell six varying versions of lies is simply fat, defenseless, and absolutely ripe for slaughter. If this was a boxing match, the ref would stop it in the first five minutes. That woman's life will be permanently RUINED by being caught by her preposterous falsehoods.
Allnoles,
I do think Winston texted her. I'd have to go back and look at the reports, but her friend stated that Kinsman received a text from a number that was not programmed in her phone. When I first read the reports I thought this sounded like nonsense that was an attempt to suggest she was lured outside. In the COC hearing though, I'm pretty sure Winston says in his statement that he texted her "meet me outside". I find it very unlikely that 2 parties on opposite sides would make that claim if it didn't happen. The real question is obviously does Winston have an old phone bill that proves it. The girl could end up in jail if he does.
I do think Winston texted her. I'd have to go back and look at the reports, but her friend stated that Kinsman received a text from a number that was not programmed in her phone. When I first read the reports I thought this sounded like nonsense that was an attempt to suggest she was lured outside. In the COC hearing though, I'm pretty sure Winston says in his statement that he texted her "meet me outside". I find it very unlikely that 2 parties on opposite sides would make that claim if it didn't happen. The real question is obviously does Winston have an old phone bill that proves it. The girl could end up in jail if he does.
"I was hit on the head." Almost certainly did not happen.
"I was drugged." No,she was not.
"I was extremely drunk." Maybe, but witness testimony and later tests contradict this.
"I was forced into a cab with many people around because I was scared." No, even the judge called her out on this extremely unbelievable assertion.
None of these scenarios are supported by the evidence and/or subsequent witness testimony. The ONLY way she prevails is if she can convince the trier of fact that something that was consensual changed midway through. In order to do that (if her attorneys are smart enough to go that route), she'll have to overcome the various other versions of her story. That will not be easy.
"I was drugged." No,she was not.
"I was extremely drunk." Maybe, but witness testimony and later tests contradict this.
"I was forced into a cab with many people around because I was scared." No, even the judge called her out on this extremely unbelievable assertion.
None of these scenarios are supported by the evidence and/or subsequent witness testimony. The ONLY way she prevails is if she can convince the trier of fact that something that was consensual changed midway through. In order to do that (if her attorneys are smart enough to go that route), she'll have to overcome the various other versions of her story. That will not be easy.
be difficult to convince "something what was consensual changed" when she willingly got on his motor scooter for a ride home?
I've never been impressed by this argument. I can envision a scenario where a date rape occurs where the "victim" feels like she has no other option to get home/get away than to accept a ride home from the "assailant"...
The fact that she rode on the scooter does not preclude the fact that she may have been raped IMO...
The other inconsistencies/lies in her narrative do IMO...
SFNole
I get that. What I don't get is why they don't have a record of it. I know she got rid of her phone, but Winston was called by TPD less than a month after the incident. He hired Jansen right away. Why in Gods name would they not have gotten and preserved proof of that? Even if they didn't have Winstons phone they could have gotten stuff from the carrier.
Maybe it was a fluke but I sure wish they had the proof.
Do we know that they don't have proof? Cornwell did have the book labeled "phone records" at the CoC hearing...
Jameis and Cornwell never had to divulge all of the information/evidence they have... Not yet anyway.
SFNole
Unless Winston was planning on doing more...she could have ran and called police (assuming she had a phone). I don't believe she had to accept a ride on the scooter. Was this not in an apt...she could have knocked on someone's door or yelled help in the hallway or something. There are other avenues she could have taken to get home then on Winston's scooter if she was legitimately raped.
Now assuming Winston did rape her...he could have threatened her by saying "if you don't ride with me home I'll blankety blank" but I'd like to think if that happened we would have hard that attempted story by now.
maybe... but again, I can envision a scenario where, after a rape has occurred, the victim is so shell-shocked that she just goes along with whatever happens in the aftermath until she gets away from the rapist.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Jameis raped her... I'm just saying that the scooter ride alone doesn't tell us anything about whether a rape happened or not.
SFNole
The problem with the shell shocked is that she text her friend RIGHT AFTER having sex with Winston about getting the answers to a test. No one who is in shock remembers to text about something and make arrangements for getting them. It won't be hard to debunk this.
It's going to be very interesting, remember one of the reasons that Meggs never charged Winston was because he feared it was going to be too easy for her to lose all credibility on the witness stand.
"The burden of proof is now on him," Clune said. "Refusing to answer questions and smearing people in the media aren't going to fly here. I'm not sure how well that will end up for him in this case."[/QUOTE]
"Refusing to answer questions and smearing people in the media aren't going to fly here."
"Refusing to answer questions and smearing people in the media aren't going to fly here."
"Refusing to answer questions and smearing people in the media aren't going to fly here."
You mean like The Clune camp has been doing!![/QUOTE]"Refusing to answer questions and smearing people in the media aren't going to fly here."
Yes - hence the irony meter going off the scale. I thought that was a pretty straightfoward .gif. I didn't have a hypocrisy meter gif... Just a standard pic...
I get what you are saying here and her accepting a ride home does not mean she did not get raped but it is a head scratcher. The scenario she described at the COC hearing is one where she was violently raped. This was not daterape but basically a abduction as she describes it. After she was violently raped and was told she could go, she then told the rapist that she had no way home? Keep in mind this is Tallahassee and she was not driven out to a far away abandon building. She had many options on the table but she chose to ask and accept a ride home from a stranger who abducted and raped her? She had access to her cell phone where she could call her friends, cab or uber she could have attempted to ask one of Winstons roommates for a ride (in her view tried to stop the rape) she more then likely had access to the night nole bus. All these options on the table and she chose to ask and accept a ride home from a stranger that in her words violently raped her? So ill agree its not a smoking gun but it surely does not look good for her case.
I'm assuming this thing is linked somewhere in the 4 pages? (still searching)
Or she could have left the apartment and called 911. I'm sure the police would have been happy to give her a ride home.
First page of this thread, the entire report is embedded in a reply.. There is no link to click just scroll in the window that the document is in and your golden.
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