Last Jedi spoilers.

[fsu1jreed]

The scene where Vice Admiral Holdo sacrifices herself by flying her Capital Ship through the dreadnaught at light-speed was one of the best 3D scenes I've ever witnessed...............I was blown away.

Overall I give it and 8/10, good for 3rd best right behind Rogue One (2nd) and Empire (1st).

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I'm not quite invested in the all the new characters yet and though the film had its ups and downs. That said, Luke going back in the Millenium Falcon cockpit and the 90 or so seconds of Chewie flying and fighting the tie fighters was worth the price of admission to me. Those moments take me back 40 years.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Just saw it and not reading whole thread.
Good movie, well done.
Only issue was awful Luke bipolar personality. It just wasn’t believable and honestly almost ruined the movie. Wasteful Luke inclusion, wondering if they’re all fooling us to get us annoyed. Luke has already done things we didn’t think possible with force so perhaps this is an epic troll Luke. I hope

 

[kc78]

A few thoughts.

The Leia floating through space thing was dumb. That should have been handled so much better.

The side quest with Finn just turned out to be a massive disaster that got a lot of people killed making Poe and Finn somewhat useless in this movie and simply existing for some fun action/adventure fare that doesn't accomplish anything except for death. I do assume it's being used to setup something major in the final movie however.

At first I was angry with the Luke storyline because it does essentially burn down all the years of thought and excitement we've had to see the Jedi class reborn only to have it "burned down". However, in retrospect, it's the more realistic storyline. The Jedi's had become egotistical assholes who basically led to the universe falling apart with the Emperor. And the Prophecy does talk about bringing balance to the force which can't be in place if you rebuild a massive Jedi cult again. They're moving past religion and into having people naturally connect to the force. I think that's an interesting comparison to the brokenness of religion today and how many people are abandoning religion to seek spirituality on their own.

Overall I think it's one of those movies I need to watch a few more times before I can say one way or another how I truly feel and much like Empire (Which people hated when it came out) it probably needs its final arc before we can truly determine it's place. To many people Empire is now the best movie although reviews of it when it came out were decidedly mixed as well.

Finally, just because I've seen so many people mention it. Luke isn't dead. He has become one with the force. This is one of the most powerful things a Jedi can do as it allows them to be anywhere, influence anything (And we've seen it's power progress with Yoda actually able to physically interact with things as well). So Luke didn't die, he finally came to terms with his power and purpose and in doing so has elevated to become at one with the force which will allow him to spread his power and influence even further. The new addition that they're able to actually physically interact with characters is a huge storytelling leap which allows those characters to be far more powerful than the OT gave that power.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I thought Luke was awful. Mark Hamill has never been a great actor but thought this performance missed the mark by a mile. Not sure if he or Rose is my least favorite character from this installment.

 

[OrlandNole]

Just saw it yesterday. A few takes...

Agree with comments about Luke's story line in this film. Mark Hamill is on record saying it's not "his" Luke Skywalker.

Just a few too many story lines going on in this one...the Luke-Rey story line got short shrift as a result.

Agree that the humor was overdone. In the past it was limited to a few scenes and mostly involved Han Solo.

Did anyone catch all of the throwback references? Rey meeting Kylo to face Snoke is straight out of ROTJ. The salt mine battle is straight out of Hoth in ESB. I'm sure there are more.

 

[kc78]

I thought Luke was awful. Mark Hamill has never been a great actor but thought this performance missed the mark by a mile. Not sure if he or Rose is my least favorite character from this installment.

No, although he does a really good comic book villain. His run as the Trickster in the flash and the joker in the animated films are really well done.

 

[Banditking]

Thought Hamill did well. The story in his regard was just flawed. Luke Skywalker would not ignite his lightsaber against a sleeping boy. That’s not in the slightest bit believable.

 

[kc78]

Thought Hamill did well. The story in his regard was just flawed. Luke Skywalker would not ignite his lightsaber against a sleeping boy. That’s not in the slightest but believable.

Why? People change, their fears can sometimes consume them, for a few moments they can make extremely poor decisions. No one is immune. To believe that Luke could "Never" do that places him on an idol. We'd like to believe he never would, but there's certainly no proof that he never would. Fear can drive people to extremely dark places, and the dark side of the force is always pulling against the light. For a few moments he gave into the dark and then lived the rest of his life regretting it.

 

[FSUSarah]

I saw it a couple days ago and I still don't really know how I feel about it. I know I need to see it a few more times.

 

[kooterridesagain]

After a few more days thinking about it, I also think the story let Luke down, nothing Hamill could do with the plot and his character in this one.

Lukes death i dont get, even if hes more powerful now. (Unless he returns and physically kills Ben in a saber duel in the last one. ) the “see you around kid” feels more and more like Luke will return.

The way his death was handled was silly. He has this great moment that reminds us hes uber powerful and then he Yodas off. I was stunned how absurd it all was.
And then the 4 year old with a broom, i dont care, it didn’t move me at all.

On Leia doing the space walk, that was weird.

The good: that Snoke death and the fight after was superb. I didn’t mind the military strategies and that some failed, it felt more genuine that each task didn’t fit neatly into a package.

Cinematography I enjoyed and the score is always great. Both Ben and Rey I thought acted masterfully.

Good entry into the franchise. Im curious who Ben will train now as the next evil pupil

 

[Banditking]

Highly stupid: the vice admiral or whatever her position was could have prevented the entire Finn/rose/pow subterfuge had she just communicated. They made it out like Poe was wrong but he wasn’t in my opinion

 

[Banditking]

Why? People change, their fears can sometimes consume them, for a few moments they can make extremely poor decisions. No one is immune. To believe that Luke could "Never" do that places him on an idol. We'd like to believe he never would, but there's certainly no proof that he never would. Fear can drive people to extremely dark places, and the dark side of the force is always pulling against the light. For a few moments he gave into the dark and then lived the rest of his life regretting it.

People do change. True. But, it’s a less interesting and a not supported character arc from the prior films. In short, it was not a satisfying ren/solo trajectory in my opinion. Other bits of fiction in this type of arc, even in the Star Wars universe are better written.

I would add that the impulsiveness and whiny Luke was basically gone by return of the Jedi. Yes, in the first two films, he was whiny and impulsive. He was also a teenager, or very close to it. And, he had never left the farm.

I think that it’s believable that Luke would have fears of his students turning to the darkside. Even believable that he would confront Ben Solo about it. But, pulling a weapon with intent to kill a sleeping student who is the son of his sister and best friend? No.

 

[kc78]

The way his death was handled was silly. He has this great moment that reminds us hes uber powerful and then he Yodas off. I was stunned how absurd it all was.
And then the 4 year old with a broom, i dont care, it didn’t move me at all.

He's not dead, he's simply elevated finally to the next level of Force connectedness. He's more powerful than he was before. He proved at the end that he doesn't need a corporal body to intervene with the world, but my guess is he'll do like yoda and Old Ben have and use this to continue to guide and train Rey into what they need to truly overcome.

 

[BelemNole]

Worst part of the movie was Laura Dern - she ruins every scene in every movie.

 

[kc78]

Worst part of the movie was Laura Dern - she ruins every scene in every movie.

I agree with that. I love having powerful women in these movies, but she just wasn't believable in the least in that role. I was happy to see her fly into the cruiser.

 

[FSUSarah]

She was terrible. I kept waiting for her to be a secret First Order spy.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I didn't mind Dern or her character. I'd never heard of Holdo before so wasn't expecting anything in particular.

I did think Carrie Fisher's performance was uninspiring though.

 

[ericram]

One point of this movie I really don't understand is why not let Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap" be the hero that sacrifices himself to save the others, instead of just having him die in a meaningless fashion with the random characters? For 30 minutes we are given reason's not to like the new purple haired Admiral (Dern) only to give her a heroic dramatic death in the most visually impressive scene in the movie.

That should have been Ackbar damn it!

Actually, I think it should have been Leia. Would have been a perfect way to send her off saving the rebellion she helped to build.

 

[ericram]

Can anyone confirm or deny that the sacred jedi texts were in the Millennium Falcon in the drawer?

 

[FSUTribe76]

Can anyone confirm or deny that the sacred jedi texts were in the Millennium Falcon in the drawer?

It was rescued by Rey.

 

[ericram]

It was rescued by Rey.

Was that shown?

 

[FSUTribe76]

Was that shown?

Yeah. They showed them briefly on the Falcon when Rey grabs a blanket to give to Rose. It was short and I missed it but my wife caught it.

 

[BelemNole]

The scrolls were shown and Yoda said something that in hindsight alluded to her taking them, but we never saw her take them.

 

[BelemNole]

I'll have to see this one a few more times to decide how I feel, but I liked how they broke from the formula in a few places and surprised everyone who were getting ready to scream "it's the same story!"
But really, it will all depend on the third movie.

 

[ericram]

The scrolls were shown and Yoda said something that in hindsight alluded to her taking them, but we never saw her take them.

That's what I thought. Thanks. This has to come into play in the final movie.

 

[noleclone2]

Agree about Laura Dern’s character and whole subplot with Finn and Rose going on side mission for no reason. I hated Rose. Just did not like the character being out of nowhere made a main character to movie and also found the actress weak.

Overall still really liked the movie.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Agree about Laura Dern’s character and whole subplot with Finn and Rose going on side mission for no reason. I hated Rose. Just did not like the character being out of nowhere made a main character to movie and also found the actress weak.

Overall still really liked the movie.

Finn going on a side mission wasn’t “for no reason”, it was to grow him as a character into becoming a hero.

At the start of the TFA, Finn hates the First Order but responds by trying to flee (ie self preservation is his primary motive). His rescue of Poe is completely incidental to his desire to escape. He even tries to flee mid movie rather than stay with Rey and Han. But by the end of TFA, he has become slightly heroic....ie he’s willing to risk his life to save people who have become his friends (Rey and to a lesser extent Han). At the start of TLJ, Finn is still only willing to risk his life to help save Rey. However, he eventually agrees to take part in a mission that in addition to helping Rey will help save the Resistance against the First Order. During his time on the casino planet, he is introduced to the realities of the universe from the war profiteers to the lowest stable slaves. He is even tempted back into a self-first philosophy (every side is evil according to him) by the codecracker but ultimately rejects it to continue on his path to becoming the ultimate selfless hero. By the final chapter of TLJ, Finn is willing to literally commit suicide to take out the First Order’s giant gun in order to save the Resistance and a bunch of people he doesn’t really know simply to preserve the struggle against the First Order.

So I have zero problems with the general plot. Rey finds herself despite failing to convince Luke to come with her to join the Resistance (at least at first) and failing to turn Kylo from the Dark Side. Finn becomes a true hero with truly noble actions despite failing in his casino mission. Really, as many have said, TLJ’s overriding theme is that it’s not about success or failure, but about the struggle. And that’s a perfect tone and message for a second movie in a trilogy. Success is born out of constant failure.

As far as Rose....she was a terrible actress and her character seemed to only be there to give Finn a case of the “not gays” to make it palatable to Asian markets. While we were probably supposed to get some romantic tension between Finn and Rey, the director and actors did a terrible job of it and in fact there was far more between Finn and Poe. Obviously a lot of the fanboys and girls were hoping for Star Wars first openly (cuz its pretty clear there was a not completely open one in Rogue One) gay relationship, and if Star Wars was only about the American market it would have happened. But Star Wars is a worldwide phenomenon and the world hates gays (especially the now lucrative Chinese market), so we had to have a quickly shoehorned in character to make sure everyone knew Finn is a manly man with a strong case of the notgays (despite his actors inability to play him convincingly straight TWICE now).

 

[Random_John]

Now that I have had more time to think on it some more questions.

1. Why didn't the red ninja guys call for backup the moment Snoke died?
2. Why was Rey's parentage built up to only be told she's nothing like Anakin was? Was it a Macguffin?
3. Was Finn's fight with Brienne of Tarth really only going to be that 2 minutes of not much? Was it another Macguffin?
4. Was the Casino scene put in the movie simply to extend the length and give political comentary?

 

[Zeek99]

Finn going on a side mission wasn’t “for no reason”, it was to grow him as a character into becoming a hero.

At the start of the TFA, Finn hates the First Order but responds by trying to flee (ie self preservation is his primary motive). His rescue of Poe is completely incidental to his desire to escape. He even tries to flee mid movie rather than stay with Rey and Han. But by the end of TFA, he has become slightly heroic....ie he’s willing to risk his life to save people who have become his friends (Rey and to a lesser extent Han). At the start of TLJ, Finn is still only willing to risk his life to help save Rey. However, he eventually agrees to take part in a mission that in addition to helping Rey will help save the Resistance against the First Order. During his time on the casino planet, he is introduced to the realities of the universe from the war profiteers to the lowest stable slaves. He is even tempted back into a self-first philosophy (every side is evil according to him) by the codecracker but ultimately rejects it to continue on his path to becoming the ultimate selfless hero. By the final chapter of TLJ, Finn is willing to literally commit suicide to take out the First Order’s giant gun in order to save the Resistance and a bunch of people he doesn’t really know simply to preserve the struggle against the First Order.

I don't have a problem with his story from a character standpoint, but the premise of his mission is ultimately pointless once they figure out Laura Derns actual plan. Because of the side mission, the first order finds out the plan and almost wipes everyone out. I'm fine with the sidequest if they would've found a way plot wise to get there instead of it unfolding because Laura Dern refused to have a 30 second conversation with Poe about their plan. Maybe it would've been better if they accused Finn of being the reason the FO is able to track them and instead of just leaving he cooks up the plan to prove hes not a traitor rather than just riding off. Poe can still have his moments with Laura because he is siding with Finn.

 

[Zeek99]

Now that I have had more time to think on it some more questions.

2. Why was Rey's parentage built up to only be told she's nothing like Anakin was? Was it a Macguffin?

To be fair, its mostly built up by the fans. The opening scenes of the TFA she tells us that shes nobody. We may still get a reveal, but I think the point is that the force belongs to everyone not just certain family lines.

 

[vevois23]

Does everyone really believe that Phasma is dead?

I don't

 

[Banditking]

To be fair, its mostly built up by the fans. The opening scenes of the TFA she tells us that shes nobody. We may still get a reveal, but I think the point is that the force belongs to everyone not just certain family lines.

Stupid point.

- anakin was a slave
- his mother was a slave
- no idea who his father was
- grew up on a backwater world
- Yoda didn’t want to train him
- speaking of, take a look at the Jedi council at its height, very diverse
- also, Jedi weren’t allowed to have families (silly), thus aristocratic like family lineage is irrelevant
- the only reason skywalkers are royalty is because leia was adopted by a leader of a planet that was subsequently destroyed
- it’s in keeping w the rest of Star Wars that rey’s family be nondescript. It isn’t in any way a departure.

 

[Zeek99]

Stupid point.

- anakin was a slave
- his mother was a slave
- no idea who his father was
- grew up on a backwater world
- Yoda didn’t want to train him
- speaking of, take a look at the Jedi council at its height, very diverse
- also, Jedi weren’t allowed to have families (silly), thus aristocratic like family lineage is irrelevant
- the only reason skywalkers are royalty is because leia was adopted by a leader of a planet that was subsequently destroyed
- it’s in keeping w the rest of Star Wars that rey’s family be nondescript. It isn’t in any way a departure.

I was referring to people wanting her to be a Skywalker or a Kenobi, not the entire Jedi order...jeez lighten up, Francis.

 

[Banditking]

I was referring to people wanting her to be a Skywalker or a Kenobi, not the entire Jedi order...jeez lighten up, Francis.

Or Palpatine or whomever.

Keep in mind, anakin was not natural. Thus, there’s a reason Skywalker line is powerful.

Seems there should be a reason that Rey can equal that power.

 

[Random_John]

Or Palpatine or whomever.

Keep in mind, anakin was not natural. Thus, there’s a reason Skywalker line is powerful.

Seems there should be a reason that Rey can equal that power.

Yup..........midichlorians

 

[Dr. Nole]

Other than to look and sound evil and mimic Darth Vader, is there any reason for Kylo REN to wear the mask? Even Snoke told him to take that stupid mask off.

 

[ericram]

Other than to look and sound evil and mimic Darth Vader, is there any reason for Kylo REN to wear the mask? Even Snoke told him to take that stupid mask off.

Think you answered your own question.

 

[kc78]

Other than to look and sound evil and mimic Darth Vader, is there any reason for Kylo REN to wear the mask? Even Snoke told him to take that stupid mask off.

Nope, which is why he destroys it in the movie. He's trying to be his Grandfather. He finally realizes that he doesn't need to live up to his Grandfather, he will simply be himself.

 

[BelemNole]

I don't have a problem with his story from a character standpoint, but the premise of his mission is ultimately pointless once they figure out Laura Derns actual plan. Because of the side mission, the first order finds out the plan and almost wipes everyone out. I'm fine with the sidequest if they would've found a way plot wise to get there instead of it unfolding because Laura Dern refused to have a 30 second conversation with Poe about their plan. Maybe it would've been better if they accused Finn of being the reason the FO is able to track them and instead of just leaving he cooks up the plan to prove hes not a traitor rather than just riding off. Poe can still have his moments with Laura because he is siding with Finn.

The point was to break the chain of star wars trope - 2-3 guys break into evil guys base and save universe by themselves. They went on this crazy mission they were told not to and effed everything up instead of saving everyone. Everyone in the theater expected it to work because it always works - the fact that it failed spectacularly made it fun, and taught Poe a lesson.

As for Rose, I don't get all the hate. She was fine. Not great, but not this target of disdain that she's becoming.