Amen.
It would be nice if they would negotiate. It seems like everyone should be against mass shootings and gun violence.
Mass shooting at Michigan State.
- Thread starter BrianNole777
- Start date
Amen.
It would be nice if they would negotiate. It seems like everyone should be against mass shootings and gun violence.
They haven't graduated yet.
I would recommend any first world country that isn't showing signs of a failing empire.
Somewhere where medical bills aren't the #1 cause of bankruptcy and kids being slaughtered while trying to learn isn't a weekly occurrence.
Yet people continue to pile into this failing empire by the thousands. Good luck just walking into one of those first world countries you speak of. You'll find their immigration laws differ greatly from ours. Not knocking you at all. I spend half time overseas and one of my kids live there full time.
Then what exactly was your point? That there are worse places to live? I don't see where I claimed otherwise.
"Severely contained" not eliminated. And maybe I should have been more generous with the category to include semi-automatic pistols???? Using exceptions and not responding to the actual thoughts is an old strategy used by those who don't want to actually discuss.
We won't even get into the fact that when we did ban semi-automatic "military style" weapons mass killings went down and overall gun violence also went down.
This isn’t ‘the exception that proves the rule’, this exception demonstrates there is no ‘rule’
Cho committed over two dozen murders with the most common types of handguns you can imagine, a .22 and 9mm.
I suspect the utilization of long guns in some of these events has more to do with fantasy fulfillment than efficacy.
That’s it’s not that easy to first find that place and be able to move there. And to an extent it’s not as bad as it seems in comparison.
If you want a country with no guns and free education they exist but with a host of other issues.
You will never solve the problem attacking the weapon used. Why the individual did this, what lead to this? That’s what needs to be attacked here.
All that matters are those certain people in Tallahassee.
Breitbart News reported that the alleged MSU attacker faced felony gun charges in 2019. Those charges, had they been pursued, would have barred the alleged attacker from buying or possessing a firearm. However, the Ingham County District Attorney’s Office accepted a plea deal, allowing the alleged attacker to face probation for a misdemeanor instead.
The alleged attacker’s probation ended in May 2021, after which he was not barred from buying or possessing a gun.
More laws, or enforce the laws we have?
Yeah, I don't understand how more laws with no enforcement is going to improve things. Enforce what we have for starters. Felony convictions, gun violations, domestic violence ect... should be automatic DQ for gun ownership or carry permits. Say no first then let things get mitigated.
I have nothing to cast doubt on the contents but when did Breibart become a reliable news source?
Not who I use either but these days you have to see what a multitude of sources are saying. CNN isn't much better than Breibart but they the WSJ and Newsweek are all reporting the same thing.
Michigan State University Shooter Pleaded Guilty to Gun Charge in 2019
The Michigan State University suspected shooter pleaded guilty in 2019 to a charge of having a loaded firearm in a vehicle, according to Ingham County, Mich., court records. Anthony Dwayne McRae was arrested and charged in 2019 with the fel
www.wsj.com
Was MSU shooting suspect Anthony McRae a felon? Gun possession questioned
"We are able to confirm that the 3 deceased, and 5 victims in critical condition are all MSU students," the Michigan State University police said.
www.newsweek.com
How do you feel about the Detroit Free Press?
The man police say shot and killed three Michigan State University students while wounding five others Monday was arrested in 2019 on a gun-related charge in Lansing, according to court and Michigan Department of Corrections records.
Originally charged with a felony, a conviction would have prevented McRae from legally owning a gun in the future. But he agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor, a charge that did not bar his ability to buy a firearm after he successfully completed probation.
Or CNN?
Years before Anthony Dwayne McRae killed three Michigan State University students and critically wounded five others, he was charged with carrying a concealed weapon – a felony count that would have prevented him from being able to buy a gun if he were convicted.
That felony case never went to trial. Instead, a 2019 deal allowed McRae to plead guilty to a misdemeanor – possession of a loaded firearm in or upon a vehicle, the Ingham County prosecutor’s office said Tuesday. McRae spent a year and a half on probation.
In this instance the information is correct, regardless of the source.
Which is why I thanked him for offering a corroborating source.
There are still several things I'm waiting for with you.
If you need to enlighten me my DM is working.
Its the amount of weapons as well as the firepower the weapon is capable of. But some people want to deny reality.
Lots of mentally ill people in other countries that don't have ubiquitous guns and amazingly, they have significantly less gun violence. Imagine that.
Lets be honest. Some people think it is more important to have total access to guns than a few dead kids. That's OK, just admit it.
Can't solve a problem you really don't want to pay the price of solving. Depression/suicide has always been with us; is the same all over the industrialized world (more or less). Yet, we lead in gun violence by a long shot. Difference is access to guns with extreme firepower.
I'm not sure you're controlling for all relevant factors.
True, America has more privately owned guns than most other countries, and mass shootings are, by definition, committed with guns. But we also make it a lot more difficult than any other country to involuntarily commit crazy people.
Since the deinstitutionalization movement of the 1960s, civil commitment in the United States almost always requires a finding of dangerousness -- both imminent and physical -- as determined by a judge. Most of the rest of the world has more reasonable standards -- you might almost call them "common sense" -- allowing family, friends and even acquaintances to petition for involuntarily commitment, with the final decision made by doctors.
The result of our laissez-faire approach to dangerous psychotics is visible in the swarms of homeless people on our streets, crazy people in our prison populations and the prevalence of mass shootings.
According to a 2002 report by Central Institute of Mental Health for the European Union, the number of involuntarily detained mental patients, per 100,000 people, in other countries looks like this:
- Austria, 175
- Finland, 218
- Germany, 175
- Sweden, 114
- England, 93
Seung-Hui Cho, who committed the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, had been diagnosed with severe anxiety disorder as a child and placed under treatment.
But Virginia Tech was prohibited from being told about Cho's mental health problems because of federal privacy laws.
At college, Cho engaged in behavior even more bizarre than the average college student. He stalked three women and, at one point, went totally silent, refusing to speak even to his roommates. He was involuntarily committed to a mental institution for one night and then unaccountably unleashed on the public, whereupon he proceeded to engage in the deadliest mass shooting by an individual in U.S. history.
The 2011 Tucson, Ariz., shopping mall shooter, Jared Loughner, was so obviously disturbed that if he'd stayed in Pima Community College long enough to make the yearbook, he would have been named "Most Likely to Commit Mass Murder."
After Loughner got a tattoo, the artist, Carl Grace, remarked: "That's a weird dude. That's a Columbine candidate."
One of Loughner's teachers, Ben McGahee, filed numerous complaints against him, hoping to have him removed from class. "When I turned my back to write on the board," McGahee said, "I would always turn back quickly - to see if he had a gun."
On her first day at school, student Lynda Sorensen emailed her friends about Loughner: "We do have one student in the class who was disruptive today, I'm not certain yet if he was on drugs (as one person surmised) or disturbed. He scares me a bit. The teacher tried to throw him out and he refused to go, so I talked to the teacher afterward. Hopefully he will be out of class very soon, and not come back with an automatic weapon."
The last of several emails Sorensen sent about Loughner said: "We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living cr out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird."
That was the summer before Loughner killed six people at the Tucson shopping mall, including a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl, and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, among others.
Loughner also had run-ins with the law, including one charge for possessing drug paraphernalia - a lethal combination with mental illness. He was eventually asked to leave college on mental health grounds, released on the public without warning.
Perhaps if Carl Grace, Ben McGahee or Lynda Sorensen worked in the mental health field, six people wouldn't have had to die that January morning in Tucson. But committing Loughner to a mental institution in Arizona would have required a court order stating that he was a danger to himself and others.
Innumerable studies have found a correlation between severe mental illness and violent behavior. Thirty-one to 61 percent of all homicides committed by disturbed individuals occur during their first psychotic episode - which is why mass murderers often have no criminal record. There's no time to wait with the mentally ill.
James Holmes, the accused Aurora, Colo., shooter, was under psychiatric care at the University of Colorado long before he shot up a movie theater. According to news reports and court filings, Holmes told his psychiatrist, Dr. Lynne Fenton, that he fantasized about killing "a lot of people," but she refused law enforcement's offer to place Holmes under confinement for 72 hours.
However, Fenton did drop Holmes as a patient after he made threats against another school psychiatrist. And after Holmes made threats against a professor, he was asked to leave campus. But he wasn't committed. People who knew he was deeply troubled just pushed him onto society to cause havoc elsewhere.
Little is known so far about Adam Lanza, the alleged Newtown, Conn., elementary school shooter, but anyone who could shoot a terrified child and say to himself, "That was fun - I think I'll do it 20 more times!" is not all there.
It has been reported that Lanza's mother, his first victim, was trying to have him involuntarily committed to a mental institution, triggering his rage. If true - and the media seem remarkably uninterested in finding out if it is true - Mrs. Lanza would have had to undergo a long and grueling process, unlikely to succeed.
As The New York Times' Joe Nocera recently wrote: "Connecticut's laws are so restrictive in terms of the proof required to get someone committed that Adam Lanza's mother would probably not have been able to get him help even if she had tried."
Taking guns away from single women who live alone and other law-abiding citizens without mental illnesses will do nothing about the Chos, Loughners, Holmeses or Lanzas. Such people have to be separated from civil society, for the public's sake as well as their own. But this is nearly impossible because the ACLU has decided that being psychotic is a civil right.
Consequently, whenever a psychopath with a million gigantic warning signs commits a shocking murder, the knee-jerk reaction is to place yet more controls on guns. By now, guns are the most heavily regulated product in America.
It hasn't worked.
Even if it could work - and it can't - there are still subway tracks, machetes, fists and bombs. The most deadly massacre at a school in U.S. history was at an elementary school in Michigan in 1927. It was committed with a bomb. By a mentally disturbed man.
How about trying something new for once?
No it’s not. A well motivated individual can carry out the same crimes with other means. Bombs, poison gas, machetes ect… could and have been used in the past. It’s not the guns, ammo or magazine size it’s the individual.
Lol because it has to be just one thing or the other. Mass killings couldn’t possibly be tamped down by addressing multiple factors.
And convenience of access to weaponry obviously plays no role… no amount of extra time or effort required for a mentally imbalanced or just super pissed off human to acquire an alternate deadly weapon or substance could possibly provide more opportunity for someone to intervene in some way or for the potential killer to make a different decision and thereby allow us to avert some of these killings or reduce their severity. Or maybe bombs, poison gas, machetes, etc are all equally convenient to everybody as are high capacity guns.
Sounds legit.
I agree something needs to be done. Better background checks, more controls, longer wait periods and limits on types and magazines all should be on the table. But the fact is it’s still the person that snapped.
Fact: USA has the most amount of guns available in society by a long shot.
Fact: USA has the most amount of gun violence by a long shot.
Proving Correlation
FACT: When the USA instituted its "assault weapon ban" gun violence went down. When it sunsetted it went back up.
Australia saw a severe decrease in gun violence and mass killings after they instituted a assault weapon ban.
Proving Causation.
I agree with you that deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill does play a part. But, deinstitutionalization is a phenomenon that shared with most of the industrialized world.
The slow, uneven wane of the institutional psychiatry model in Europe
In the European Union, thousands of people with serious mental disorders live isolated and secluded from society, without receiving all the care they need. At least 150 million euros of European Union funds, intended to improve their situation, have been used for other purposes.
civio.es
These numbers, along with the trend demonstrate that there isn't that huge gap that you published in your post, and that deinstitutionalization is a modern trend that has not caused a dramatic rise in gun deaths in multiple countries.
Fact: no causation in most countries.
The cat is already out of the bag.
We can't make gun violence go away. With hundreds of millions gun already on the street, it will take a while for any legislation to take full effect, but we know what to do. We just lack the political will to do it.
I'm not sure that's fair considering 99.5% of gun owners don't use their guns to shoot people.
Most gun owners that shoot people shoot themselves...
Straying off topic here, but since you mentioned cigarettes, I recall hearing somewhere in 20-30 years we will look at alcohol in the same regard as cigarettes.
“28 people in America die in drunk-driving car crashes, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).” 10,220
“The yearly cost of alcohol-related car crashes is more than $44 billion, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).”
“In 2020, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 45,222 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S., according to the CDC.”
“In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC.”
Take away withdrawals, I wonder what society would be like if everyone were drug and alcohol free for a month. Maybe majority of violence would go away.
Substance abuse and addiction destroying lives, careers, and relationships is a sad thing to see.
Interesting..........maybe because of Covid restrictions?????
Marijuana use is on a long term increasing slope.
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