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Mass shooting at Michigan State.

I definitely think that the culture is shifting with regard to alcohol, and the alcohol companies do too.

Speaking just to the data we collect on my campus, alcohol consumption among the undergraduate students has been rapidly and consistently declining for several years.
That’s because they’re doing drugs and smoking weed thats 10 times stronger than what their grandparents smoked in 1968. And dropping dead of fentanyl overdoses.
Straying off topic here, but since you mentioned cigarettes, I recall hearing somewhere in 20-30 years we will look at alcohol in the same regard as cigarettes.

“28 people in America die in drunk-driving car crashes, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).” 10,220

“The yearly cost of alcohol-related car crashes is more than $44 billion, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).”

“In 2020, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 45,222 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S., according to the CDC.”

“In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC.”
107,000 deaths from fentanyl since 2021.
😧
 
Fair is not relevant to my stance or suggestion. People shooting themselves is also a huge problem that causes incredible harm to society.

Make possessing a gun at least as detestable as smoking a cigarette in a restaurant, and we will see the number people killed with a gun decline, just as we have seen the number of people dying from lung cancer decline.

Your solution isn't fair, rational or reasonable, IMO.
 
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Less church and more humanism is a better solution from my perspective.

Regular Church attendance means a big drop in suicide risk.

Church attendance in America is way down. There's a correlation.

 
Fair is not relevant to my stance or suggestion. People shooting themselves is also a huge problem that causes incredible harm to society.

Make possessing a gun at least as detestable as smoking a cigarette in a restaurant, and we will see the number people killed with a gun decline, just as we have seen the number of people dying from lung cancer decline.
I suppose you would have to shut down Hollywood first. Interesting fact is they love to promote smoking too.
 
No, it was not. My partner's family suffered brutally in the reeducation camps. They were tortured, beaten, starved, and worked to death. Shame was not the rage. Rage was the rage, as was subjugation and vengeance.
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
 
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In the mid '70's I was working in a VocRehab program when the order came down to release people from institutions. Deciding who was released was above my pay grade for sure. But, we took in a bunch of new clients, one of whom had been in Chattahoochee for 12 years.

As I understand it, the client's family did not want her released. She was a model client in our program until she voluntarily left the program, as in disappeared. As I understand it, she managed to get a job and a partner. Eventually she was tracked down by social workers, but no one could do anything, other than observe.

I was told that she had been randomly chosen to be released, probably because she was non violent. Her companion at Chattahoochee was a broom that she carried with her everywhere.

We're finally starting to deal with mental health issues on a deeper level. There is help available now, (not as much as is needed), but being mentally ill is not as taboo as it used to be.

Substance abuse counseling often does not deal with the root cause, and that's a problem I have with various forms of counseling and therapies. Some are just quick fixes and bandaids.

I have a very smart family member that really knows how to work the system. She has finally managed, single handedly to alienate herself from the rest of the family. Every day is a new plot and new drama. She is such a good con that she manages to manipulate therapists until they really see no change in her behavior. She is just one case, but I have seen others that operate in the same manner.

So what is it that we are doing that is creating a new breed of sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists?
 
I think that there is a general sense that obtaining a stable, happy life in a safe, secure world is impossible. Climate dread is very real, and there is strong belief that the institutions that secured a stable society have failed or are failing. I think that income inequality and the lack of a reliable safety net contributes to this perspective. I think that a huge swath of people feel helpless and are just giving up.
I think the current culture with social media and the regular news media has a much bigger influence on this. The comparison culture has gotten much wider and the influence on what should make one content. Also we live in much more of an microwave society in that many want things instantly or very quickly. This includes wealth and big salaries and when they realize that isn't likely they feel helpless and give up. They aren't being taught baby steps and a slower path and sure they might not want to hear or listen to it, but there isn't enough people influencing with this type of message because it wouldn't be shiny and popular.
 
In the mid '70's I was working in a VocRehab program when the order came down to release people from institutions. Deciding who was released was above my pay grade for sure. But, we took in a bunch of new clients, one of whom had been in Chattahoochee for 12 years.

As I understand it, the client's family did not want her released. She was a model client in our program until she voluntarily left the program, as in disappeared. As I understand it, she managed to get a job and a partner. Eventually she was tracked down by social workers, but no one could do anything, other than observe.

I was told that she had been randomly chosen to be released, probably because she was non violent. Her companion at Chattahoochee was a broom that she carried with her everywhere.

We're finally starting to deal with mental health issues on a deeper level. There is help available now, (not as much as is needed), but being mentally ill is not as taboo as it used to be.

Substance abuse counseling often does not deal with the root cause, and that's a problem I have with various forms of counseling and therapies. Some are just quick fixes and bandaids.

I have a very smart family member that really knows how to work the system. She has finally managed, single handedly to alienate herself from the rest of the family. Every day is a new plot and new drama. She is such a good con that she manages to manipulate therapists until they really see no change in her behavior. She is just one case, but I have seen others that operate in the same manner.

So what is it that we are doing that is creating a new breed of sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists?
Social media ?
 
I think that there is a general sense that obtaining a stable, happy life in a safe, secure world is impossible. Climate dread is very real, and there is strong belief that the institutions that secured a stable society have failed or are failing. I think that income inequality and the lack of a reliable safety net contributes to this perspective. I think that a huge swath of people feel helpless and are just giving up.
Impossible without the correct level of effort maybe. Maybe we all turn in some of our wealth along with our guns is a good start. Seriously though treat the mentally I’ll and make guns harder to get. Enforce what’s in place for started.
 
Impossible without the correct level of effort maybe. Maybe we all turn in some of our wealth along with our guns is a good start. Seriously though treat the mentally I’ll and make guns harder to get. Enforce what’s in place for started.
I don’t own a gun and won’t have one in my home.
I already turn in “some of my wealth” every year. It’s called taxes. I don’t mean to sound flip about it but well over half of our population doesn’t turn in jack💩.
Why turn over this “wealth”? Where does it go and who decides what to do with it?
 
I don’t own a gun and won’t have one in my home.
I already turn in “some of my wealth” every year. It’s called taxes. I don’t mean to sound flip about it but well over half of our population doesn’t turn in jack💩.
Why turn over this “wealth”? Where does it go and who decides what to do with it?
This is a very vibrant thought provoking response. It challenges, energizes and stimulates my ever growing thought process in my ongoing journey to emotional wholeness. Thank you. And I once knew a dude call Jack. I think his brother was Bob.
 
That’s because they’re doing drugs and smoking weed thats 10 times stronger than what their grandparents smoked in 1968. And dropping dead of fentanyl overdoses.

107,000 deaths from fentanyl since 2021.
😧
What she said. Give him the binn-ness GoldMom!
 
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If you need to enlighten me my DM is working.
Can't we all just get along? You are now on Skirmish Alert for an indefinite period of time! And The Board will be looking for contrition and genuine remorse to have all your privileges restored. :cool:
"We all live in a Yellow Submarine.... a Yellow Submarine.... a Yellow Submarine....." :cool:
 
Can't we all just get along? You are now on Skirmish Alert for an indefinite period of time! And The Board will be looking for contrition and genuine remorse to have all your privileges restored. :cool:
"We all live in a Yellow Submarine.... a Yellow Submarine.... a Yellow Submarine....." :cool:
Mellow Yellow? Quite rightly.
 
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There is no amount of individual effort that will address the systemic problems that have eroded hope in the future and instilled a sense of doom. Individual effort will not reverse the climate catastrophe or make college or housing more affordable. Individual effort will not stop wars or corporate greed. People are burned out, and burnout is not a problem that is caused by or can be solved by the individual.

I have been working in the mental health field for more than 25 years, and most of us in the field are of the opinion that the system is the problem, not the individuals. We have created systems that are not conducive to human happiness or thriving for the overwhelming majority of individuals, and we are seeing that in every indicator of human functioning, from rates of addiction to suicide to domestic violence. Regarding the topic of guns, requiring that a person remove all guns from their household is among the very first things that is discussed in any mental health assessment with any person.
After the individual presents with an issue? Is there a determination that the mere presence of a firearm was the cause of the issue?
Just need a clarification on that.
 
I don’t own a gun and won’t have one in my home.
I already turn in “some of my wealth” every year. It’s called taxes. I don’t mean to sound flip about it but well over half of our population doesn’t turn in jack💩.
Why turn over this “wealth”? Where does it go and who decides what to do with it?
Sorry I don’t use the sarcasm font.
 
I also do not own a gun, and I also will not allow one in my home. I also do not go into homes where I know there is a gun. Being vocal about this is exactly the type of shaming and denorming of gun ownership that may actually turn the tide on gun violence, eventually.

As for turning over wealth, I certainly agree with that, and I am happy to both pay my taxes and donate whatever I can to institutions and systems that are attempting to improve society. Having lived in a large city in a large state for a while, both of which tax at a relatively high rate, I have been pleased with how we use ballot initiatives to enact reasonable taxes and to direct them toward worthy causes.

I still have faith in public institutions and the general beneficence of people seeking to support each other and our communities.
That’s not turning over wealth. How about half of your pay to go to those that are less fortunate or don’t work as hard. Let’s start there. Most who are all for closing the inequality gap stop short at actually giving money without the associated tax write off.
 
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Meanwhile, a Mississippi nut job kills 6 in rural Mississippi, and the media coverage is very different than we see in Michigan. Almost reminds me of the coverage of Hurricane Michael some years back.
 
Yep. Domestic violence plus gun culture equals carnage. Shame them all.
When rednecks die in rural (red) jurisdictions, the media generally yawns. See Hurricane Michael. Same thing happened in Tuscaloosa some years ago when killer tornadoes whipped through there. Some passing attention, of course, but nothing like you see in other settings.
 
When rednecks die in rural (red) jurisdictions, the media generally yawns. See Hurricane Michael. Same thing happened in Tuscaloosa some years ago when killer tornadoes whipped through there. Some passing attention, of course, but nothing like you see in other settings.
Or Katrina. By the media coverage it only hit New Orleans and Biloxi was untouched.
 
Yep. Domestic violence plus gun culture equals carnage. Shame them all.
Embarrassed Shame GIF
 
I believe that taxes are how we should fund the social safety net.
We should be looking to reduce the safety net and those that live off of it. Reduce fraud and require work in order to collect benefits. Teach them to fish don't give the fish to them.

The tax system is a joke anyway. Make every working person pay 10% of what they earn 10,000 to 10,000,000,000 all pay 10%. No loopholes or filing. No 9k refunds for someone that makes 15k a year, no EIC deductions or mortgage interest deductions. The tax code can be one page. You would get way more revenue that way and reduce fraud.
 
Well, we just have a fundamentally different worldview and values structure. I do not believe that anybody should suffer for lack of basic necessities; including healthcare, education, safe food/water/shelter, clothing, etc.; regardless of whether they are capable of or inclined toward labor. We have no shortage of fish; we can afford to feed everyone.

I am pleased to see that Universal Basic Income is finally getting tested in a few places, and I hope to see it implemented in a substantive manner in my lifetime.

Regarding taxes, I will never begrudge a person making $10-15K per year any refund or tax credit. That person's life is hard enough already.
I agree with you on one thing. We do have very different views on things.
 
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Well, we just have a fundamentally different worldview and values structure. I do not believe that anybody should suffer for lack of basic necessities; including healthcare, education, safe food/water/shelter, clothing, etc.; regardless of whether they are capable of or inclined toward labor. We have no shortage of fish; we can afford to feed everyone.

I am pleased to see that Universal Basic Income is finally getting tested in a few places, and I hope to see it implemented in a substantive manner in my lifetime.

Regarding taxes, I will never begrudge a person making $10-15K per year any refund or tax credit. That person's life is hard enough already.
Not capable of labor is what the safety net is for. Not inclined towards labor should not receive the same benefits of working peoples tax dollars. Universal Basic Income will just increase the ranks of those not inclined towards labor and increase an already expensive problem. The upside to "begrudging" that persons refund is getting 10% from those making a substantial income. Just about anyone making 100k a year or more would gladly pay 10%.

18% of individuals make over 100k a year. Lets assume every one of them paid 10k a year in taxes. So lets say 54 million just to under estimate x 10k a year is 54 trillion in tax revenue. Then lets add the 263k or so folks that make over a million a year. 263 x 100k = 26 trillion. So were at 80 trillion in tax revenue before we even start with actual incomes which would make the number go up and the majority of tax payers under 100k. The deficit is 1.4 trillion. Seems like an easy fix to me.
 
I absolutely support taxing everybody who makes over $100K at least 10% per year. On that, we can agree. Given your calculations, we could only tax people making more than $100K and fully afford to provide a universal basic income that allows everybody’s needs to be met. That sounds great to me.
Universal basic income would not be part of the deal. Everyone is taxed equally. Universal income is another word for hand out. Hell even in communist countries you had to work.
 
It would be a part of my deal. I would only support taxing people equally if everyone's income and wealth were equal. Otherwise, I see no good reason to tax relatively poor people at the same rate that we tax relatively wealthy people.

I have no animosity toward handouts, and I do not see any value in requiring people to work for basic necessities. I wish that Keynes' prediction had come to fruition and that we were all able to support ourselves working no more than 15 hours per week by this point in history.
Utopia Youre Delusional GIF
 
And I guess that ends the civil portion of the discussion. Exchanges like this are why I believe that we are not a unified culture or nation and why I believe that the conservative and liberal populations need to peacefully divorce.
You need to grow thicker skin. I was simply illustrating in a nice way that I disagree. Which is ok. BTW I'm not liberal or conservative, I don't think labels are helpful. People can hold various views on things that don't have to be one color or the other. In this case though I disagree with you. People should work if they can and be a productive member of society, not requiring that produces more unproductive members of society.
 
I understand that you disagree with me. Telling me that I live in Never Never Land is not nice or civil or productive, and it certainly was not necessary for my understanding that you do not share my perspective. It was simply, plainly an insult. I see no value in tolerating that.

I do not share your belief that people need to or should be "productive," and I see no inherent value or benefit in requiring people to work to meet their basic needs. That is our impasse. Regardless of how you do or do not identify, we have fundamentally values and fundamentally different worldviews that are not compatible, apparently, with a shared approach to governance, hence my statement regarding a peaceful dissolution of the United States.
Ok.
 
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