Haha, you grasp of boxing is tenuous at best. Ring control? Guess where the majority of the fight was fought? In the center, where Floyd wanted it fought. Manny wanted to trap him on the ropes and batter away, but outside of maybe 5 or 6 times, Manny couldn't trap him because Floyd is too good at moving around the ring. Floyd is possibly the greatest defensive boxer of all time, that's how he got to 48-0, why would he change. He completely neutralized Manny's entire offense by using an early and accurate jab, keeping of the ropes, sliding to change angles and landing the cleaner, more accurate shots. It really was a boxing master class that is being undersold and mocked because people hate Mayweather so much. Outside of the overhand left Manny hit him with in the 4th, Floyd wasn't hit cleanly with anything significant the rest of the fight.
Mayweather Vs. Paquiao
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Haha, you grasp of boxing is tenuous at best. Ring control? Guess where the majority of the fight was fought? In the center, where Floyd wanted it fought. Manny wanted to trap him on the ropes and batter away, but outside of maybe 5 or 6 times, Manny couldn't trap him because Floyd is too good at moving around the ring. Floyd is possibly the greatest defensive boxer of all time, that's how he got to 48-0, why would he change. He completely neutralized Manny's entire offense by using an early and accurate jab, keeping of the ropes, sliding to change angles and landing the cleaner, more accurate shots. It really was a boxing master class that is being undersold and mocked because people hate Mayweather so much. Outside of the overhand left Manny hit him with in the 4th, Floyd wasn't hit cleanly with anything significant the rest of the fight.
I take it by the personal insult that you're 12 so I'll try to be forgiving of the ignorance.
Ring control is not "Mayweather had him where he wanted him". Ring control is dictating the pace of the fight and who is placing the opponent on the margins by providing threatening aggressive action whether or not that scores actual hits. Running away is not aggressive action. Manny could have sat in the Center of the ring and done absolutely nothing while Mayweather bobbed and weaved around him and Manny would have won the ring control element if it was being scored in their match. Mayweather was the bottom in this fight and sure you can say he was the power bottom because he was countering, but at no point was he the aggressor for more than a ten second flurry.
The fight was fought where Floyd wanted it fought. Manny was unable to trap Floyd against the ropes more than a handful of times. That right there shows ring control, Floyd moved around the ring and fought in spots that were advantageous to him and not to Manny, and avoided trouble spots for him, how is that not ring control to you? As far as pace of fight, Floyd controlled the fight. Manny couldn't get close enough to Floyd to throw effective punches. Manny either couldn't get off because Floyd would hit him with accurate jabs and move the action, or Manny would be get close enough launch a couple ineffective shots before Floyd would shift the angle and tag Manny with a couple of counters on the way out. I think Manny won 4 rounds maybe 5 if being generous. It was a "boring" fight to most who watched it, because Floyd turned it into a typical Mayweather fight.
That's Mayweather's skill set. I don't have a problem with it, but I do find it amazing that he's risen to the heights he has in terms of value, in a time that is not friendly to boxing, given his style. It's rather remarkable.
As for the person who compared him to Leonard...I don't think that's fair to Leonard. Yes, against Hagler, sure, but Sugar Ray had many stirring performances, and could close the show.
As it is, styles make fights. I don't enjoy Mayweather's style very much, but I think the blame goes almost equally to Mayweather's opponents. There have been guys that tried to execute a game plan against Mayweather, and while they weren't fight of the year candidates, they were perfectly watchable fights...De La Hoya, Maidana, Cotto, Hatton, even Victor Ortiz briefly. When a guy is actually attempting to win the fight, it actually makes it a lot easier to appreciate Mayweather aesthetically, even if you don't enjoy it.
But one of the problems is that his opponents often basically concede the fight. He's very challenging...and after a few frustrating rounds, they slip into just following him around the ring...not doing anything. Basically, if you do not try very hard or take any risks against Mayweather you:
1) Are not going to get knocked out
2) You are not going to get hurt
3) You are not going to get embarrassed (at least any more than 40 other guys)
4) You are going to get a big check
Nobody wants to be Ricky Hatton. So it becomes an exercise in following the guy around the ring for 12 rounds and cashing your check.
I wasn't disappointed in the outcome, which had to be expected, but I was disappointed in Manny and Freddie Roach. There was virtually no point at which it looked like Pac was trying to win the fight. Now, I don't question a fighter's guts or courage, it's a tough gig. But I did expect, especially after Roach ran his mouth so much, that they would have had something in mind, and would have had a plan B. It might very well not have worked...that's what usually happens with Mayweather, but it's what I want to see.
But to go in and not throw punches, not cut off the ring, not use in and out movement and angles...then what was the plan? Clearly not anything that included and actual expectation of victory. That to me was disappointing, not that he lost, or even lost widely.
Glad it's over and the sport can move on. The quality of this fight is no more of an indictment of boxing than a bad super bowl is an indictment of football. It's just that people don't watch the rest.
There's a ton of good, entertaining fighters and fights happening. No actual fight fans were expecting a good fight...none of them. Everyone expected a great fight a couple weeks ago (Matthyse-Provo) and got it, and are expecting a great fight this weekend (Canelo-Kirkland). If you want to see utter destruction, tune in to GGG in a couple weeks on HBO. Then talk about boxing being boring, or that people don't come to fight.
People watch one fight every four or five years, and think they are fit to declare that there are no good fighters and fights, please. You can absolutely decry the business model that means the best is not being exposed as widely, but there is great action taking place for those of us who watch.
As for the person who compared him to Leonard...I don't think that's fair to Leonard. Yes, against Hagler, sure, but Sugar Ray had many stirring performances, and could close the show.
As it is, styles make fights. I don't enjoy Mayweather's style very much, but I think the blame goes almost equally to Mayweather's opponents. There have been guys that tried to execute a game plan against Mayweather, and while they weren't fight of the year candidates, they were perfectly watchable fights...De La Hoya, Maidana, Cotto, Hatton, even Victor Ortiz briefly. When a guy is actually attempting to win the fight, it actually makes it a lot easier to appreciate Mayweather aesthetically, even if you don't enjoy it.
But one of the problems is that his opponents often basically concede the fight. He's very challenging...and after a few frustrating rounds, they slip into just following him around the ring...not doing anything. Basically, if you do not try very hard or take any risks against Mayweather you:
1) Are not going to get knocked out
2) You are not going to get hurt
3) You are not going to get embarrassed (at least any more than 40 other guys)
4) You are going to get a big check
Nobody wants to be Ricky Hatton. So it becomes an exercise in following the guy around the ring for 12 rounds and cashing your check.
I wasn't disappointed in the outcome, which had to be expected, but I was disappointed in Manny and Freddie Roach. There was virtually no point at which it looked like Pac was trying to win the fight. Now, I don't question a fighter's guts or courage, it's a tough gig. But I did expect, especially after Roach ran his mouth so much, that they would have had something in mind, and would have had a plan B. It might very well not have worked...that's what usually happens with Mayweather, but it's what I want to see.
But to go in and not throw punches, not cut off the ring, not use in and out movement and angles...then what was the plan? Clearly not anything that included and actual expectation of victory. That to me was disappointing, not that he lost, or even lost widely.
Glad it's over and the sport can move on. The quality of this fight is no more of an indictment of boxing than a bad super bowl is an indictment of football. It's just that people don't watch the rest.
There's a ton of good, entertaining fighters and fights happening. No actual fight fans were expecting a good fight...none of them. Everyone expected a great fight a couple weeks ago (Matthyse-Provo) and got it, and are expecting a great fight this weekend (Canelo-Kirkland). If you want to see utter destruction, tune in to GGG in a couple weeks on HBO. Then talk about boxing being boring, or that people don't come to fight.
People watch one fight every four or five years, and think they are fit to declare that there are no good fighters and fights, please. You can absolutely decry the business model that means the best is not being exposed as widely, but there is great action taking place for those of us who watch.
Yeah I think people truly don't understand boxing... Its not a 36 minute slugfest. But if you wanted that there was an amazing night of fights about 2 weeks ago where HBO had 2 fights and Showtime had 3 ending with Julio Caesar Chavez Jr getting the shit beat out of him by a Pollock. those were 5 good fights from multiple weight classes.
Definitely more in style with Whitaker than Sugar Ray. Although a lot of Sweet Pea fans would grimace at the comparison.
Leonard was a great closer, and a killer sometimes. I think he's on a drastically different level. That Hagler fight was not typical of SRL's career.
I like Sweat Pea. I hate Floyd. I do think Sweat Pea got robbed against De La Hoya. He was the defending champ landed more punches and even scored a knock down yet somehow lost.
Being 1/2 Filipino, it is my duty to be a Manny fan. But I knew this was not a good match and would be boring. I even had it in one of the threads before the fight. Floyd is basically a faster stronger and more elusive Marquez. Manny always struggled with Marquez who just liked to counter punch and keep moving back to keep his opponent coming forward. But Marquez would at least at some points have an exchange. Floyd not so much and maybe because he is so much faster on his feet. That being said, I really really hoped Manny would have at least knocked him down and made it a better fight. Manny's speed and power has decreased the past couple years. I really would like to have seen this fight about 5 years ago when Manny was mowing down, De La Hoya (past his prime), Cotto, Hatton and Margarito. I alos would like to have seen Floyd fight Sugar Shane when he was in his prime. He fought him well after Shane was past his prime and Shane almost knocked him down. Those are the 2 had Floyd fought when in their prime, would have had the best shot at beating him. Floyd's first fight against Maidana was Floyd's worst performance and had he fought like that against Manny, I think he would have lost. But he won't take Manny that lightly. And even if they did a rematch, I still think Floyd wins. Manny may be more agressive and try to press more, but Floyd is just too elusive if he wants to be and has the reach and hand speed to keep him away. Manny would just have to accept getting hit and try to throw him into a corner or the ropes and go off and not allow Floyd to hug him. Much harder to do than said.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. You're going to have to go through some stuff to get to Floyd, and it was clear that Manny had no interest. He may have been slower, or not quite as powerful as he once was, but none of that would have mattered if he wasn't willing to take some heat back, and he clearly wasn't. He was all to happy to be there, taking selfies and what not. I'm not going to begrudge him that, he gave a lot to the sport and was boxing's most exciting attraction for a long time, and had plenty of wars. More power to him, but I have no interest in a rematch, or frankly any future Pac fight unless it's a "pass the torch" type fight. A lot of speculation that he'll be lined up as an opponent for Terrance Crawford to help launch Crawford to stardom. I would watch that, but I have no interest in Pac taking on another b-level fighter, and frankly haven't had any interest in any of his opponents in quite some time other than Marquez. And I hope he doesn't fight Marquez again...I don't see him wanting any part of that based on where he was on Saturday.
I tend to think that Pac five years ago would have had an excellent chance to beat Mayweather, not because of being faster and better necessarily, but he still fought like he was invincible. It would have taken a very, very good Mayweather to beat him. And we've seen great Mayweather, but we've also seen merely very good Mayweather, so Pac would have had a good chance.
I always felt that Margarito would have had a good chance to beat Mayweather in their prime, but that may be misguided if Margarito had loaded gloves all those fights. The Margarito post discovery was certainly not the same.
I probably won't get any agreements on this, but my personal pick of a guy to beat Mayweather would have been Miguel Cotto prior to the 2007 fight with Shane Mosley. People talk about Margarito ruining Cotto, and it does seem like that he was never in his prime after that. But to me, the Mosley fight was the debut of Cotto "the boxer". Before that, he was a terminator. Learning to box better probably extended his career, and it's hard to argue...the guys has remained a star and is a certain hall of famer. From a career perspective it has kept him toward the top of a tough business.
Before that though, he just simply imposed his will on guys, and especially at 140, he was incredibly strong. I think that Cotto at 140 could do everything you need to do to beat Mayweather...pressure, physical leaning, body work, punching the elbows and shoulders, and having some weight in your hands. I'm not saying that Cotto wins, but I think Mayweather might well have to knock him out. I just look at the limited success that De La Hoya had, or the 2012 version of Cotto, and think that the 2006 version would have given Mayweather real trouble.
I also take exception to the Sugar Ray Leonard comparison. Leonard was in some of the most exciting matches of all time. His fights with Wilfred Benitez and especially Thomas Hearns (the first one) are boxing classics. He was not afraid to go toe-to-toe with the best fighters of his day. He learned to preserve himself after taking too much punishment and suffering the torn retina which forced his first early retirement. I can't fault him for that. He also suffered an unnecessary loss to Roberto Duran because he allowed himself to be baited into a test of manhood. The rematch proved he was capable of winning without having to fight Duran's fight. I also never understood the criticism of his victory over Hagler. I watched that fight more than once and never felt Hagler was "robbed". Leonard fought a brilliant fight. He kept Hagler at a distance and then turned it on at the end of every round to steal points. It was close, but Hagler rarely had him in trouble and Leonard was usually able to rally with a flurry to end the round and get himself out of trouble. I haven't followed Mayweather, but I don't recall him ever being known as a guy who would stand in the ring and trade punches like Sugar Ray did back in the early '80s.
Just thought I'd put this here for those of you unfortunate enough to pay for the fight.
Damn, I remember watching that as a little kid at a friends house, we were jumping around in our underoos we were so excited. I don't want to sound like a disgruntled old fart, but damn, boxing in the 80's and 90's was friggin fantastic. What in the hell happened? The fight this weekend was a major dud, bunch of old friends got together for this and we all knew what would happen, but we were still all like "really? This is it?"
There's no doubt in my mind that Pound for pound, Roy Jones Jr. was the best boxer on the planet from about 1990-2004. After he hit 35 or so he started to decline quite a bit, but even then that was just a slip from the best of the best to merely one of the best.
Not that Mayweather would ever do it and risk losing his perfect record, but Mayweather versus Jones is about the only fight with Mayweather I would ever pay to see again.
Not that Mayweather would ever do it and risk losing his perfect record, but Mayweather versus Jones is about the only fight with Mayweather I would ever pay to see again.
Haha, Roy Jones is a cruiserweight now (200lb limit), and he's horrible. You would be the only one interested in that fight. And Roy Jones was in the P4P conversation for about 94-03...but not clearly the top guy the entire time.
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I really would like everyone who declared boxing dead/terrible after this pay per view to have to watch the fights on HBO the next two Saturdays before they could make a sweeping statement. It was a bad fight, and most boxing fans expected a mediocre to bad fight. Then non-fans that watch one fight every five years declare that boxing sucks based on that. It's like watching one superbowl every five years, and it was Seattle-Denver, and declaring that football sucks now.
Watch Canelo-Kirkland and Gomez-Soto this Saturday.
Then watch GGG-Monre and Gonzalez-Sosa on May 16th.
You can definitely decry the model in boxing that trots out lousy fights like this to the mainstream public, but there is still a lot of excellent fighters and fights.
Watch Canelo-Kirkland and Gomez-Soto this Saturday.
Then watch GGG-Monre and Gonzalez-Sosa on May 16th.
You can definitely decry the model in boxing that trots out lousy fights like this to the mainstream public, but there is still a lot of excellent fighters and fights.
Oh I know Jones is way past his prime, but there's no one in their prime Mayweather will take on and ruin his perfect record. So it's basically what has been or never was will finish out his run. What even remotely realistic fight would be out there that's even halfway interesting?
If he was truly an all time great, he'd take on GGG at 154. That's what all the true greats did...take on fights that would have seemed unwinnable. SRL taking on Hagler...people thought Leonard was going to get decapitated. Duran way past his prime (and up from natural lightweight) beating Barkley at middleweight. And of course the old-timers that Mayweather claims to be better than...Henry Armstrong winning the feather, light, and welter title, and getting a draw at Middleweight. Hell, Pac jumped from junior lightweight to welterweight in one year to take on and beat De La Hoya.
Mayweather has fought at 154 twice before...GGG could come down to 154. That would be Floyd's true legacy fight to put him in the same breath of the all-time greats.
However, of course Floyd being Floyd, that is nowhere near realistic. But for the greats it certainly would be.
Mayweather has fought at 154 twice before...GGG could come down to 154. That would be Floyd's true legacy fight to put him in the same breath of the all-time greats.
However, of course Floyd being Floyd, that is nowhere near realistic. But for the greats it certainly would be.
Lou is right...the next 2 Saturday Nights HBO is going to have awesome fights..Canelo-Kirkland should be a slugfest and I expect it to be an easy contender for Fight of the Year at the end of 2015
