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Mike Tyson GIF?

The one thing that I will concede is that Ali did have better heavyweights during his time.
Yes Ali fought in the golden era of heavyweights, and he beat them all. Look man, I agree that Tyson had a chance to be the GOAT, but sadly his career spiraled so badly downhill that he tainted his legacy. For the first 75% of his career he was headed to GOAT status, but after the Douglas fiasco and the whole BS rape thing, he was never the same, he was nowhere near the fighter he was before that and when evaluating him, you have to look at him at his best AND his worst, and sadly his worst was pretty bad
 
Yes Ali fought in the golden era of heavyweights, and he beat them all. Look man, I agree that Tyson had a chance to be the GOAT, but sadly his career spiraled so badly downhill that he tainted his legacy. For the first 75% of his career he was headed to GOAT status, but after the Douglas fiasco and the whole BS rape thing, he was never the same, he was nowhere near the fighter he was before that and when evaluating him, you have to look at him at his best AND his worst, and sadly his worst was pretty bad

I know it wouldn't take 2 seconds to mine the internet for a revisionist article of the Tyson rape trial with a dissenting opinion. But I can assure you he had the best defense attorney's money can buy at that time.
 
Wait a minute......what about Rocky Marciano?
34c7fe57-eb42-427a-b128-f7b5625e2b79_100_h_6.gif
 
I know it wouldn't take 2 seconds to mine the internet for a revisionist article of the Tyson rape trial with a dissenting opinion. But I can assure you he had the best defense attorney's money can buy at that time.
Yes but wasnt the defense ultimately, Mike Tyson is a pig and everyone knows it and she knew it and went up to his room anyway.

While that is all true, I am not sure that is the best defense strategy.
 
Yes, as he admitted years later he was go through piles of drugs and multiple prostitutes a night. I have no doubt this 18 year old Ms Nevada was naive enough to think she could party with the famous Mike Tyson and remain in control of the situation. That did not happen and she immediately filed a police report after that night and subjected herself to examinations and a rape kit.
 
Late to the party but...LOL.

Tyson was not the greatest heavyweight of all time, nor does the "If but for..." really count for anything.

You know what Tyson was? Baylor football. In more ways than one, but lets talk performance only. So when Art Briles' Baylor teams played someone even a little bit inferior to them, they were putting up 72-20 scores, and looked unstoppable. But they were stoppable, and someone always beat them. That's Tyson.

Listen...Tyson was a good fighter. He's underrated in many ways...he had solid defense, and excellent footwork, fast hands, and good power. However, he never beat a good heavyweight, let alone a very good heavyweight. The best heavyweight he ever beat was an aging Larry Holmes, which looked pathetic at the time, but Holmes fought on as a serviceable (not elite) heavyweight for years after that. He beat a highly regarded Ray Mercer, and went the distance with Holyfield, and beat all the scrub fringe heavies he faced. So especially with how easy Tyson won, that was a perfectly decent win.

After that...? Tyson literally lost to or missed all the decent heavyweights of his era. And he never avenged a loss. And none of the losses were very competitive. Again...Baylor football scheduling.

And don't think that was just by chance...the same braintrust that managed Tyson's career famously did the same thing with Floyd Patterson.

Tyson is a fringe top-10 heavyweight even going by "at his best." And I'm sorry, I don't buy all the "drama" excuses...a tiny percentage of fighters weren't plagued by demons...it comes with the territory. Even the supposed "good guys" Sugar Ray Leonard was addicted to cocaine, De La Hoya addicted to drugs and alcohol and sex...google "De La Hoya + fishnets"...or better off, don't. And managerial problems? Come on...it's par for the course.

It's not like Tyson wasn't picking up bad Ls until the end of his career, like SRR or Joe Louis. The guy was knocked out by Buster Douglas in his prime. You don't think other greats had fights out of focus, or with female drama, or with substandard management? They all did. No other great gets excused like that...just written off that only what happens before their first loss counts.

He was an exciting fighter, he won explosively a lot of the time, and had underrated boxing skills. There's nothing wrong with being a HUGE fan of his style and aura. There's a lot to love there. But absolutely zero credible boxing observers place him anywhere near the top of all time heavyweights, or put him in the "potential all time greats" category that a guy like Salvador Sanchez goes in from being killed young.

In summation...his career is what it was. He doesn't get any special excuses...he's a guy that demolished C-grade fighters, and lost convincingly to A and B grade fighters. Other than a period of inactivity, he didn't face any special or unique challenges worthy of grading on a curve. He was what he was. Which was a good, not great, heavyweight.

And LOL at putting Jeff Lacy and Zab Judah in the same conversation as Tyson.

GGG isn't really a similar fighter, but does have Tyson-like characteristics in terms of pressure, advanced footwork, and mentality. He's got a better jab, maybe a better chin, works the body better, and has a B-plan and C-plan. Tyson had faster hands, and I think better defense at his best. Similar power.
 
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This should've been a thread with just mike tyson gifs but y'all too serious.

giphy.gif
 
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Late to the party but...LOL.

Tyson was not the greatest heavyweight of all time, nor does the "If but for..." really count for anything.

You know what Tyson was? Baylor football. In more ways than one, but lets talk performance only. So when Art Briles' Baylor teams played someone even a little bit inferior to them, they were putting up 72-20 scores, and looked unstoppable. But they were stoppable, and someone always beat them. That's Tyson.

Listen...Tyson was a good fighter. He's underrated in many ways...he had solid defense, and excellent footwork, fast hands, and good power. However, he never beat a good heavyweight, let alone a very good heavyweight. The best heavyweight he ever beat was an aging Larry Holmes, which looked pathetic at the time, but Holmes fought on as a serviceable (not elite) heavyweight for years after that. He beat a highly regarded Ray Mercer, and went the distance with Holyfield, and beat all the scrub fringe heavies he faced. So especially with how easy Tyson won, that was a perfectly decent win.

After that...? Tyson literally lost to or missed all the decent heavyweights of his era. And he never avenged a loss. And none of the losses were very competitive. Again...Baylor football scheduling.

And don't think that was just by chance...the same braintrust that managed Tyson's career famously did the same thing with Floyd Patterson.

Tyson is a fringe top-10 heavyweight even going by "at his best." And I'm sorry, I don't buy all the "drama" excuses...a tiny percentage of fighters weren't plagued by demons...it comes with the territory. Even the supposed "good guys" Sugar Ray Leonard was addicted to cocaine, De La Hoya addicted to drugs and alcohol and sex...google "De La Hoya + fishnets"...or better off, don't. And managerial problems? Come on...it's par for the course.

It's not like Tyson wasn't picking up bad Ls until the end of his career, like SRR or Joe Louis. The guy was knocked out by Buster Douglas in his prime. You don't think other greats had fights out of focus, or with female drama, or with substandard management? They all did. No other great gets excused like that...just written off that only what happens before their first loss counts.

He was an exciting fighter, he won explosively a lot of the time, and had underrated boxing skills. There's nothing wrong with being a HUGE fan of his style and aura. There's a lot to love there. But absolutely zero credible boxing observers place him anywhere near the top of all time heavyweights, or put him in the "potential all time greats" category that a guy like Salvador Sanchez goes in from being killed young.

In summation...his career is what it was. He doesn't get any special excuses...he's a guy that demolished C-grade fighters, and lost convincingly to A and B grade fighters. Other than a period of inactivity, he didn't face any special or unique challenges worthy of grading on a curve. He was what he was. Which was a good, not great, heavyweight.

And LOL at putting Jeff Lacy and Zab Judah in the same conversation as Tyson.

GGG isn't really a similar fighter, but does have Tyson-like characteristics in terms of pressure, advanced footwork, and mentality. He's got a better jab, maybe a better chin, works the body better, and has a B-plan and C-plan. Tyson had faster hands, and I think better defense at his best. Similar power.


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This isnt a commentary on the content of his posts, but holy shiitake mushrooms does Nole Lou LOVE the sound of his own voice.
 
This was eating at me a bit this morning that I said this:

After that...? Tyson literally lost to or missed all the decent heavyweights of his era.

I shouldn't dismiss the Spinks win as if Spinks wasn't a "decent" heavyweight. He did win two controversial decisions over Holmes, so it's pretty sketchy to call Holmes a decent win and not Spinks. I still think Holmes is the far more impressive win given he was a proper heavyweight while Spinks would be among the bottom 5-10% of heavyweight champs (although one of the greatest light-heavies of all time), and especially given what Holmes accomplished after. Spinks was just cashing out, but Holmes went on to beat contenders and be competitive with Holyfield AFTER Tyson iced him.

But it's a bit disingenuous for me to say Spinks wasn't a "decent" heavyweight.
 
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Yes, as he admitted years later he was go through piles of drugs and multiple prostitutes a night. I have no doubt this 18 year old Ms Nevada was naive enough to think she could party with the famous Mike Tyson and remain in control of the situation. That did not happen and she immediately filed a police report after that night and subjected herself to examinations and a rape kit.
She also accused he x boyfriend of rape as well
 
Late to the party but...LOL.

Tyson was not the greatest heavyweight of all time, nor does the "If but for..." really count for anything.

You know what Tyson was? Baylor football. In more ways than one, but lets talk performance only. So when Art Briles' Baylor teams played someone even a little bit inferior to them, they were putting up 72-20 scores, and looked unstoppable. But they were stoppable, and someone always beat them. That's Tyson.

Listen...Tyson was a good fighter. He's underrated in many ways...he had solid defense, and excellent footwork, fast hands, and good power. However, he never beat a good heavyweight, let alone a very good heavyweight. The best heavyweight he ever beat was an aging Larry Holmes, which looked pathetic at the time, but Holmes fought on as a serviceable (not elite) heavyweight for years after that. He beat a highly regarded Ray Mercer, and went the distance with Holyfield, and beat all the scrub fringe heavies he faced. So especially with how easy Tyson won, that was a perfectly decent win.

After that...? Tyson literally lost to or missed all the decent heavyweights of his era. And he never avenged a loss. And none of the losses were very competitive. Again...Baylor football scheduling.

And don't think that was just by chance...the same braintrust that managed Tyson's career famously did the same thing with Floyd Patterson.

Tyson is a fringe top-10 heavyweight even going by "at his best." And I'm sorry, I don't buy all the "drama" excuses...a tiny percentage of fighters weren't plagued by demons...it comes with the territory. Even the supposed "good guys" Sugar Ray Leonard was addicted to cocaine, De La Hoya addicted to drugs and alcohol and sex...google "De La Hoya + fishnets"...or better off, don't. And managerial problems? Come on...it's par for the course.

It's not like Tyson wasn't picking up bad Ls until the end of his career, like SRR or Joe Louis. The guy was knocked out by Buster Douglas in his prime. You don't think other greats had fights out of focus, or with female drama, or with substandard management? They all did. No other great gets excused like that...just written off that only what happens before their first loss counts.

He was an exciting fighter, he won explosively a lot of the time, and had underrated boxing skills. There's nothing wrong with being a HUGE fan of his style and aura. There's a lot to love there. But absolutely zero credible boxing observers place him anywhere near the top of all time heavyweights, or put him in the "potential all time greats" category that a guy like Salvador Sanchez goes in from being killed young.

In summation...his career is what it was. He doesn't get any special excuses...he's a guy that demolished C-grade fighters, and lost convincingly to A and B grade fighters. Other than a period of inactivity, he didn't face any special or unique challenges worthy of grading on a curve. He was what he was. Which was a good, not great, heavyweight.

And LOL at putting Jeff Lacy and Zab Judah in the same conversation as Tyson.

GGG isn't really a similar fighter, but does have Tyson-like characteristics in terms of pressure, advanced footwork, and mentality. He's got a better jab, maybe a better chin, works the body better, and has a B-plan and C-plan. Tyson had faster hands, and I think better defense at his best. Similar power.
Advice Grab a drink ...have a smoke and STH up and sit down.
 
I was a kid when Tyson was in his prime. He was a God to us, until Buster came along.

I've still never beat him in that damned video game though. lol
 
I was a kid when Tyson was in his prime. He was a God to us, until Buster came along.

I've still never beat him in that damned video game though. lol
Buster never won. Tyson got robbed in the 8th. Buster was down for 12.
 
Some of Tyson’s first fights when he wore the white and red trunks are some of the best I have ever seen. The technique , the bobbing and weaving were amazing. The foot speed the hand speed the accuracy of his punching were 2nd to none
 
Hopefully you are aware that the rule reads "10-count" not "10 seconds" when defining a knockout. Don King made the same argument then as you are making now, and he failed as well.
Yeah well then that was the slowest 10’count of all time
 
Some of Tyson’s first fights when he wore the white and red trunks are some of the best I have ever seen. The technique , the bobbing and weaving were amazing. The foot speed the hand speed the accuracy of his punching were 2nd to none
Can't argue with your assessment of his physical gifts, but gifts alone aren't enough to make him the goat.
 
The greatest heavyweight of all time was also one of the greatest Civil Rights leaders of all time. in 1967 he was the most famous man ON THE PLANET but allowed himself to be stripped of the heavyweight title rather than participate in the Vietnam War - in his opinion the US had too much to fix at home to be sending people across the globe to fight in a country that few Americans knew anything about.

Once the Supreme Court restored Ali's ability to box competitively, he was a different fighter - Ali 2.0 still had the blazing hand speed, but he lost his foot speed and a good bit of his ridiculous agility during his hiatus and had to learn a different way to win his fights. Just like he staved off certain defeat at the hands of the brutal Liston at age 22, at 32 he mastered the brutal George Foreman. Not the affable George we all know now, the angry and brutal Liston protege that George was at age 24. If you want to see the mission Muhammad signed up for, go watch Foreman fight Frazier when Joe was the undisputed, undefeated heavyweight champion of the world.



I thought Foreman was going to kill Frazier. Never saw a fighter have a delayed reaction before hitting the mat like Frazier did. Foreman was a beast!
 
Well this thread delivers so much more than the title...

I grew up in the same town as Iron Mike. He was a a really messed up kid and should have ended up dead. Cus D'Amato discovered him and really saved him. Tyson still got into plenty of trouble. Crashing his cars several times and various other incidents. When Cus died Tyson was never the same. So many people just never looked out for his interests like the father figure Cus was.

On a related note his cartoon show is pretty funny.
 
Well this thread delivers so much more than the title...

I grew up in the same town as Iron Mike. He was a a really messed up kid and should have ended up dead. Cus D'Amato discovered him and really saved him. Tyson still got into plenty of trouble. Crashing his cars several times and various other incidents. When Cus died Tyson was never the same. So many people just never looked out for his interests like the father figure Cus was.

On a related note his cartoon show is pretty funny.

Others would say that Cus "looked out for his interests" by protecting him from consequences. He was a bad dude under Cus as well, but had someone to clean up after him. I think he was pretty much the same before and after Cus as a person, but without someone to hide his behavior and make the consequences go away.

If anyone thinks I don't like Tyson...I actually do. I probably like him more than I like anyone who has been a very, very bad person in his life. I find him smarter than most people think (because of his speech), and with a capacity for self-awareness and self-evaluation that is rare in any celebrity, let alone an athlete who for a brief time stood at the very top of the mountain. Almost unprecedented.

He's also probably the most educated student of boxing history and the boxing game of any fighter past or present. He's an encyclopedia of boxers, styles, techniques, etc thanks to study with Cus. Had he been stable, and a little more articulate, he would have probably been the greatest former athlete color commentator of all time. What he knows about boxing is probably rivaled only by the great trainers of days gone by like the late Emmanuel Steward.
 
The greatest heavyweight of all time was also one of the greatest Civil Rights leaders of all time. in 1967 he was the most famous man ON THE PLANET but allowed himself to be stripped of the heavyweight title rather than participate in the Vietnam War - in his opinion the US had too much to fix at home to be sending people across the globe to fight in a country that few Americans knew anything about.

Once the Supreme Court restored Ali's ability to box competitively, he was a different fighter - Ali 2.0 still had the blazing hand speed, but he lost his foot speed and a good bit of his ridiculous agility during his hiatus and had to learn a different way to win his fights. Just like he staved off certain defeat at the hands of the brutal Liston at age 22, at 32 he mastered the brutal George Foreman. Not the affable George we all know now, the angry and brutal Liston protege that George was at age 24. If you want to see the mission Muhammad signed up for, go watch Foreman fight Frazier when Joe was the undisputed, undefeated heavyweight champion of the world.



I personally favor Joe Louis over Ali as the greatest heavyweight, but I think Ali is a reasonable opinion. Ali did some amazing things though, and it's the win over Foreman that to me makes his legacy and makes his case for the best heavy of all time. That's really an amazing win, and on paper it's still hard to figure out how he pulled it off. And it only grew in stature with the success of Foreman 2.0. It's arguably the most impressive heavyweight victory of all time in my opinion.

I just favor the style of Louis more, his utter destructiveness. His power, aggression, footwork, combination punching...it's just awe inspiring.

I tend to favor Louis head to head, because I think he was similar but better than Frazier, who was about Ali's equal. But by no means do I think Ali couldn't win...you can't bet against Ali.

Much less a fan of Ali the person and social icon than some. I respect the civil rights work, don't appreciate some of his personal behavior. Have a hard time with the way he treated Frazier.
 
Muhammad came around and began to respect Frazier, in the end -
  • There live a great man named Joe
    who was belittled by a loudmouth foe.
    While his rival would taunt and tease
    Joe silently bore the stings.
    And then fought like gladiator in the ring.
    • "The Silent Warrior", dedicated to Joe Frazier and his family, p. 112
I met Joe, briefly, and he was a friendly guy - but I kept my mouth shut about Ali. I have long said that Joe's biggest in-ring achievement is going 44 rounds with Ali and basically splitting them.

Yeah, but Joe never forgave him. I also had the chance to speak to Joe Frazier for quite a while in 2005. We did talk about Ali. It was after he had publicly, begrudgingly "forgiven" Ali, but he had most definitely not, and had some, let's call them uncharitable musings about who really came out the winner circa 2005. He was a fun conversation.
 
Joe never forgave him and was quite the douche bag about Ali - I heard his outgoing answering machine message where Joe made a little poem about having caused Ali's permanent damage. At the time, Joe was living in poverty above his gym in Philly. The world could not have cared less when Joe passed; Ali tributes seem to be coming out more frequently than ever.

When you hear Foreman talk about sodomizing Joe in Kingston, George still is complimentary of Frazier. Lord knows he did not need to be - except that George has character in abundance.

Ali was horrible to Joe Frazier while they were fighting though. Horrible. After Joe Frazier had gone so far as to give Ali money during Ali's exile. Ali, with the help of his surrogates in the media, labelled Frazier an Uncle Tom for a generation of people, as well as perpetuating plenty of harmful stereotypes. The way Ali treated Frazier was unconscionable. If Joe's unwillingness to forgive is a mark on his character, so be it, but Ali's treatment and portrayal of Frazier was horrible. As were the reporters who lapped it all up and didn't call BS at the time.
 
And George Foreman weighs in on the subject matter, as well as showing the gracefulness and peace of mind that Joe Frazier never developed.

I think I disagree with him though, I think Foreman cracks the top 10 with his second run.

 
Off the top of my head, I probably go...

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammed Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Evander Holyfield
6. George Foreman
7. Joe Frazier
8. Larry Holmes
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Rocky Marciano

It's tough after the first two...I'd probably have Tyson somewhere 11-14. I tend to underrate some of the older guys probably. Also, this is just champions...when people include all heavyweights, African Americans pre-Joe Louis who weren't given a shot at the title normally take up a few spots.
 
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