This is so true. I have three kids, no way dropping $700(tixx, parking, souvenir) to see a Panthers game. As a kid my dad had season tixx to Jets & half packages for Mets & Islanders. And we were in no way rich. Kids today miss out b/c of prices.
NFL viewership down 17%....Half empty stadiums.
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This is so true. I have three kids, no way dropping $700(tixx, parking, souvenir) to see a Panthers game. As a kid my dad had season tixx to Jets & half packages for Mets & Islanders. And we were in no way rich. Kids today miss out b/c of prices.
Personally, I find most NFL games pretty boring. Couple that with an unwillingness to invest __ hours in watching all of the games, PLUS the fact that I can catch the highlights of each game in like 30 seconds, and, well, i won't be sitting around watching many NFL tilts. Just me, but it sounds like others may be of like mind.
If Derwin James decided to kneel for the national anthem, would you still watch FSU football?
Sergio Dipp was absolutely horrendous. I thought it was a joke. Like they plucked somebody out to the stands to give broadcasting a try. I did not mind Mowins. I think she is pretty good.
Yes...I don't watch the NFL for a multitude of reasons, and I don't miss it one bit.
So, your righteous indignation ends at the entrance of Doak Campbell?
But it's been that way for a few years.
The two macro issues impacting football are 1) disenchantment with the CTE issues and 2) pervasiveness of alternate forms of entertainment in packages smaller than 3.75 hours.
There are other factors (like pro kneel and anti kneel boycotts) but how the NFL addresses the two above will dictate its success moving forward.
Are takin about decline in attendance or a decline in popularity?
If it's attendance there are two reasons.
1. It's too damn expensive, and if you can afford, is it safe/appropriate to take your small ones?
2. The alternative is much better, wings at the house, big 75in 4K tv, throw the football around with the kids in the backyard at halftime, and watch replays while checking your fantasy score.
If it's popularity, then one reason.
Your team sucks, they know they suck, and they don't care to get better.
The teams fielding a roster that can compete will fill the stadiums and the community will get behind them, plain and simple.
Because of all the coverage, you know if your team is good or if the owners give two rats ass before the season starts. If you know they don't care, then you don't care.
If it's attendance there are two reasons.
1. It's too damn expensive, and if you can afford, is it safe/appropriate to take your small ones?
2. The alternative is much better, wings at the house, big 75in 4K tv, throw the football around with the kids in the backyard at halftime, and watch replays while checking your fantasy score.
If it's popularity, then one reason.
Your team sucks, they know they suck, and they don't care to get better.
The teams fielding a roster that can compete will fill the stadiums and the community will get behind them, plain and simple.
Because of all the coverage, you know if your team is good or if the owners give two rats ass before the season starts. If you know they don't care, then you don't care.
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The kneeling this is simply a reason for people to point to for why they're not watching. The real truth is it's too expensive, it's getting boring, and there are a million other things to do. If those issues didn't exist, people would be watching. They'd complain about the kneeling, they'd make those players into heels to root against or others would make them into heros and they'd simply go at it. The real truth is it's simply getting boring, the players now are all just "professionals" without much fire, and so many rule changes have taken that fun and spontaneity out of it.
I don't know how you "Fix" it. You can't go back to just letting almost anything go when it comes to tackling as it was in the 80's and before. We simply know too much about the sport, but it was that type of play that kept the game fun. There were also great attitudes and personalities to root for and against. The NFL has fined people so often for showing any personality on the field that now they're all just clones of one another being "professional".
That might be a place to start. Cut down on penalties for celebrations, taunting, etc... That's all part of the game. I know it doesn't make the players great role models, but it was fun. The league needs a few Warren Sapps to bring some personality and swagger back into the game again.
Totally agree.
How the league packages the game makes a huge difference - how it renders itself on digital platforms, game flow (penalties), and length of game.
Speaking about the kids I know who are in college, very few who are really into football are spending all Sunday watching games like we did. You can get highlights and meme-ish commentary from Snapchat and Instagram accounts, which reduces the need to drop 8 hours watching games on a Sunday when you can instead be out with friends at a music festival, studying, at a park, or enjoying Sunday Funday. We all have televisions in our pockets and can watch when and where we want to watch, no need to be attached to a 40" TV all day anymore.
I personally watch a lot less as I just have other ways I want to spend my time. I'll watch FSU and Bucs games (with a dash of Vikings for Mr. Cook) but other than that, I'm not going out of my way for anything less than a marquee match up. I can't rationalize spending Sunday watching football when I can go out and be social and/or healthy.
Yup...I like to watch the Bucs when they are competitive, which has been the case the past couple years. But when then started to suck after Gruden left, my viewership was tailored back big time.
Games outside of the Bucs just aren't interesting to me unless it's Conference Championship game or Super Bowl.
I'll watch a series, MAYBE a quarter on Sundays if it's not the Bucs, and then all the highlights after the end on the 3:30 games and before the prime time match up.
While the kneeling is a talking point, it has nothing to do whatsoever as to whether I watch the games or not.
This sums it up for me.
I can no longer sit through an entire NFL game - that includes watching Cowboys games. IMO, the RedZone channel is the best thing that could have happened for me. I get to skip all the commercials and penalty flags, and 1yd runs, and just get the good, exciting plays that I want to see.
RedZone is fantastic, it's the only way I can watch the NFL if it's not the Bucs and even then I sometimes just opt for RedZone.
In the future it maybe that the RedZone is offered via CBS/FOX and viewers have to pay extra for access to full games.
Preach it, brother. I think the NFL now realizes its product is generally pretty boring.....interesting to me that the league this year removed many of the restrictions on end zone celebrations, etc. But, as noted, there are way-way-way too many 1-3 yard plays, replay reviews, commercials, etc., etc.
I only care that there's enough left in the NFL pension fund until the day they lower me into the ground.
One of the biggest transitions for any football player who makes an NFL roster is that finding out and adjusting to the fact it's a business enterprise 100%. If you went to a school where the football program had a winning tradition and each loss was like a death on campus, your rookie year was a real eye-opener.
One of the biggest transitions for any football player who makes an NFL roster is that finding out and adjusting to the fact it's a business enterprise 100%. If you went to a school where the football program had a winning tradition and each loss was like a death on campus, your rookie year was a real eye-opener.
Very good point. The costs for the games, much like housing in the boroughs (where my parents grew up), have outpaced the working families. Times have changed for sure.
Wish he'd put some money into the Avalanche and/or Nuggets ;(
I just flew back from Europe on Sunday and last nights game in Denver started at 8:20. I gave my tickets to my daughter and her boyfriend. I'm not sure if I would have attended even if I wasn't jet-lagged. All for the sake of a MNF double header. The game is fast losing my attention ;(
It's going to take a wave of college coaches into the NFL all at the same time to change that mindset, then. Not sure it's possible. Chip Kelly kind of made it work for a little while, before going all crazy. Given the style of the college game, it's only a matter of time till the NFL has to make sweeping offensive changes, as there will be very few "pro-style" QBs available. We're already seeing that (Scott Tolzien? Tom Savage?) so maybe in another 5 years or so, especially when the stud pro QBs retire, the game-play will see a rather drastic change that lends itself to be more "fan-friendly".
I yelled at the clouds last night about the NFL, haven't watched a game in a long time. Don't foresee becoming a viewer.
Social issues, including horribly inconsistent moral standards
Science deniers see concussion issue.
Absurd cost for in person viewing.
The false support of cancer awareness efforts with the sole purpose of lining their pockets.
Now that I don't play FF, I only look at box scores for pickem.
Social issues, including horribly inconsistent moral standards
Science deniers see concussion issue.
Absurd cost for in person viewing.
The false support of cancer awareness efforts with the sole purpose of lining their pockets.
Now that I don't play FF, I only look at box scores for pickem.
You'll be fine. The NFL is not on the verge of collapse, and the existing pensions are more-than-well-funded. In Florida, the current life expectancy for white females is 81.96 years (and growing). You'll likely live longer, but you'll still be fine.
Yes, the NFL and Disney are very similar enterprises.....what actually goes on there is VERY different than what most outsiders perceive. It's all about 'da cash. Actually, 'da cash is everything.
There's also a lot of teams that no one wants to watch, the league needs more personalities.
If you're not a Rams, Bengals, Chargers, Cards, Fins, Jags, Texans, Titans, Colts, Bears, Jets, Bills, or Niners fan how much would I have to pay you to watch a game between one of these teams?
There's a huge dearth of personalities we can enjoy. The opposite of the NBA where the league is now littered with players with interesting personalities and role models.
Whenever I hear this type of jester: "that someone won't watch the NFL anymore-- that they would rather stay with college football", the very first thing that enters my mind is college football is a bigger disaster. I'm sure this will rustle many here by think about it:
We have high learning associated with kids that probably wouldn't be at that university unless they ran a 4.3 or bench press 350lbs.
Likewise, to complement this, a kid has to go to college at 18-- he can't go "pro", like the rest of us can-- if we wanted to. So we tell them to go to America's finest state institutions- barely go to class, barely study anything other than a playbook and continue to pretend that you are a student first and yet still make the university millions of dollars. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks the whole big business of college football is out of whack but if you spend some time to think about it if the US had to "start over" would we associate higher learning with big time athletics?
Look I'm not trying to be a jerk here but just trying to make folks think about what they are saying sometimes. I don't even watch much NFL either- I watch FSU football every week. The point is when someone complains about the NFL then they state "I'm only going to watch college ball" it makes me wonder if they have really thought through what college football is. Once you begin to peel back the layers you begin to realize why no other country in the free world associates big time athletics with universities.
We have high learning associated with kids that probably wouldn't be at that university unless they ran a 4.3 or bench press 350lbs.
Likewise, to complement this, a kid has to go to college at 18-- he can't go "pro", like the rest of us can-- if we wanted to. So we tell them to go to America's finest state institutions- barely go to class, barely study anything other than a playbook and continue to pretend that you are a student first and yet still make the university millions of dollars. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks the whole big business of college football is out of whack but if you spend some time to think about it if the US had to "start over" would we associate higher learning with big time athletics?
Look I'm not trying to be a jerk here but just trying to make folks think about what they are saying sometimes. I don't even watch much NFL either- I watch FSU football every week. The point is when someone complains about the NFL then they state "I'm only going to watch college ball" it makes me wonder if they have really thought through what college football is. Once you begin to peel back the layers you begin to realize why no other country in the free world associates big time athletics with universities.
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Totally agree. There's some inherent hypocrisy in our CFB fandom, esp when taking into account criticisms of the NFL.
Unpaid "student"-athletes forced pursue professional athletics at a university where many can't or don't take advantage of the opportunities available to them, likely as a result of the pathetic quality of education delivered via inner city public schools due to a vast discrepancy in quality of public education between suburban and urban/rural schools. Makes no sense to force this peculiar situation. Create NFL and NBA minor leagues, kill off college football, basketball, and baseball. Universities shouldn't be in the business of building massive 80-100k seat stadiums, IPFs, negotiating TV contracts, and partnering with multimillion dollar athletic booster associations. Absolutely inappropriate.
That said, still love my Noles ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I'm prepared to get blasted by others in this forum (it would be worse on the TC however) but very much appreciate your thoughts. The things I mentioned are the tip of the iceberg. I completely agree that the arms race in college football - be it stadiums or coaches salaries -- is a massive embarrassment for the university (IMO). Makes me wonder if we have our priorities in order.
I can always count on Bacardi thinking things through
Tribalism isn't going away any time soon. We root for our college teams because we're part of the tribe in a way that we no longer are with our professional franchises. Many of us either went to the universities or have family who did, we grew up in their backyard. Those Universities infiltrate every pocket of their towns and surrounding communities. So when our college team takes on another, it's literally back to evolutionary us vs them. We defend our tribes to the death, even when they're wrong.
The NFL, through Free Agency, and the constant moving of teams has killed the tribal mentality for many fans. It's hard to feel like the players are part of your tribe when they're moving every few years, the teams have priced the games to the point that middle class Americans can't afford them (The in person experience helps to build that identity) and add in the "Pro" attitude taking over has driven out many people feeling that it's their team any longer.
It's going to be a lot harder to kill that tribalist mentality in college sports and will take much longer to do so.
There's so much wrong with this post....
-They're not "forced to not go pro". The CFL allows 18yr olds to play, as long as they've graduated high school. There's other options out there. They're free to take up those options.
-Some of "those kids" wouldn't be given a chance to have an education of any kind without this system. Bomb the system...give a ton of "those kids" a better chance to be on the streets as an 18yr old. Bright move there...
-Why should we "be like every other country in the world"?
-490,000 of 500,000 student-athletes in the NCAA are not D1 football/basketball players. Blow it up, and you're screwing over 98% of just the student-athletes involved (much less the other people involved...coaches, admins, athletic trainers, etc).
Too many people can't think critically enough in this issue (yes, much more layers than you realize, ironically enough given this post), and just want the knee-jerk "it's not fair" response.
Agree, that's likely the strongest component of my admitted hypocrisy on the subject.
I'm not tight w/ the NFL so I have no qualms calling them out on their BS but it gets tougher when it involves FSU b/c that's basically my blood type and religion. I'd like to think I can see past that and at least be aware that the structure of college sports is not at all appropriate or decent - I've grown tired of the arms race and as a result have become more and more disenchanted w/ college sports, I expect that trend to continue for myself and some others.
We as a nation have massively misplaced educational priorities and while college sports is but a fraction of what's messed up, it represents one of the most visible microcosms of a serious problem that will increasingly afflict America's ability to compete globally.
So your solution is to force American athletes to leave the country (Canada) in order to pursue professional opportunities in their field of choice if they want to avoid being forced into playing at a university for free.
Agree about giving these kids a chance at a free education but the underlying issue is their preparation to take advantage of that chance thanks to the American public education system that failed them.
College athletics in the Olympic sports existed before big time college football/bball and it would continue after. For the most part, Olympic sport athletes with a chance of making real money tend to skip college or bail early anyway as professional opportunities are more easily available to them than football and bball players.
The ongoing employment of coaches/admin/athletic trainers is not nearly enough reason to keep a totally unnecessary and wasteful system in place. Those folks can find jobs in newly created minor leagues anyway.
You're defending your domain without understanding that any displacement created would be easily and more efficiently accommodated outside the university ecosystem.
Add to that, some of the money wasted on athletic donations would wind up as academic donations, which has a tangible GDP and social benefit to the nation.
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Back in the day freshmen never played. They went to class. And the next year a LOT of them redshirted. Teams had no cap on size so a Texas or Ohio State could have 125-130 kids as opposed to 85 now. Graduation rates were a lot higher. It's now an NFL waiting room. Somehow it's spiraled out of control.
As alumni bases, wealth, and discretionary income increased, more people needed more places to spend their money. Enter the tribal nature of college sports and the exponential growth of its supporting 24/7 tv/radio media hype machine and the college sports arms race.
A huge boom in the college attending population from the 1970s to 2010s coupled with schools like OSU, FSU, UT, etc... graduating 8-10k kids per year means that a 30k stadium just wouldn't cut it and way more people would wind up watching on TV, leading to a massive infusion of TV dollars.
The genius of college sports is every year you add a growing number of new customers by way of university attendance/graduation.
I didn't see your question...as I don't read all the posts on this thread/board. In my initial post, I mentioned I no longer watch the NFL, and I ONLY watch FSU. I don't watch College games either, and I don't know of any player kneeling in College....football games take too long to hold my attention without a vested interest.
As far as the NFL, IMO, money and greed is killing the sport, both owners and players.....add in the off the field issues with players/owners, performance enhancing drugs, multiple concussions, ESPN's politicizing FOOTBALL, well,....the list goes on as many have noted. Frankly, I've lost interest. Cheers!
NFL games don't take three hours.
What percentage of people care about the CTE in players? Not many.
"We have high learning associated with kids that probably wouldn't be at that university unless they ran a 4.3 or bench press 350lbs."
And we have higher learning associated with kids that probably wouldn't be at that university unless they could paint a picture or play the trumpet. They are called special talents, they are non academic and they are worthy of scholarships and have been for decades.
And we have higher learning associated with kids that probably wouldn't be at that university unless they could paint a picture or play the trumpet. They are called special talents, they are non academic and they are worthy of scholarships and have been for decades.
Is there a sarcasm font that's missing here?
NFL games on avg take 3.12 hours.
If you're interested in people caring about CTE in players take a look at the 14% decline in youth participation, which would be even higher if the numbers didn't include flag football and girls participation. That statistically correlates to viewership.
"That statistically correlates to viewership."
Very little, most football fans never played the game or had kids who played organized ball. There will never be a shortage of players and no matter how much of a dip we see in interest it will always dwarf interest in the NHL and no one talks about hockey going away.
The over exaggerations on this topic are constantly absurd.
Very little, most football fans never played the game or had kids who played organized ball. There will never be a shortage of players and no matter how much of a dip we see in interest it will always dwarf interest in the NHL and no one talks about hockey going away.
The over exaggerations on this topic are constantly absurd.
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