I had surgery this morning. Despite being vaccinated in April I was required a negative covid test 72 hours prior to my procedure. I was happy to do it.
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proof of vaccination or COVID-19 test to attend game
- Thread starter GvilleNole
- Start date
Hope it all went great for you. Recover quickly and breathe freely!
Thank you! Breathing is night and day already. It’s amazing. But I am a stomach sleeper and that’s a no go while I’m recovering. Sleeping on ones back is something I wish I had practiced. 😂
I don’t disagree. I’m going to Europe in November (hopefully) I’ll have to show vaccination status and multiple negative tests most likely.
Dr. Scott Gottlieb appeared on CNBC this am. He said the UK has a study showing vaccination conferred immunity is at least as robust as natural immunity. He cautioned that it's unknown which is better, and he wasn't bringing it up to combat the Israeli study, he just thinks the jury is still out. Said the important takeaway is that there's a robust and durable natural immunity, and both immunities wane over time. How much time is unknown, but at least 6 months of robust natural immunity. He said there's a consistent mistake made by public health officials to not take account of natural immunity, but emphasized he thinks both cases need boosters, and the downside to natural immunity is the person must get the virus--which is what the vaccine wants to prevent.
yep. with the caveat that you are building immunity against the entire virus and not just its spike protein.
the CDC estimates that just over one third of the US has had COVID with just under one third of the US having symptomatic COVID.
Cases, Data, and Surveillance
Cases, data, and surveillance to track and analyze COVID-19.
www.cdc.gov
That’s fair. I like when folks speak reasonably, share information as it’s relevant, and don’t act like they have all the answers yet.
Pfizer started its oral vaccine trial. If approved, this will create another way to fight the virus after infection.
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I don’t really care about the method. I simply don’t trust any vaccine with such a short testing time.
is that a vaccine or a therapeutic? i had read that pfizer and merck were working on antiviral meds for COVID.
This would be a trial for an "oral antiviral therapy for COVID-19 in non-hospitalized, symptomatic adult patients." So I guess this would presumably be used in a similar way to available monoclonal antibody therapies, after infection has already occurred.
ok yeah - this sounds more like the antiviral meds available for influenza. i may have mentioned once or several times that i love me some tamiflu! 😁
i read of several intranasal and pill form COVID vaccines that are currently in clinical trial including one that was attenuated virus and another that targets additional proteins of the virus and not just the spike protein.
Can you post the article? Don't need the ultra far-right Epoch Times getting my email address.Interesting story I just came across.
Who’s Really Being Hospitalized?
www.theepochtimes.com
Your choice to read it or not. That is the article. It has some interesting data included, like the Israel data that breaks it down by vaccinated vs unvaccinated cases.
people can't read it without a subscription of some description so it would be helpful if you could copy and paste a handful of the key lines from the article.
I'll pass then. The Israel study has been discussed at length already.
Here is the new study that contradicts that study though
Regardless, vaccine or having natural immunity is good either way but both should be supported with a booster shot at some point.
Can we please stop posting stuff from Epoch Times and calling it a legitimate resource? It wasn't legitimate the first time and it isn't legitimate now.
the Kentucky study covers May and June. The delta surge didn't begin in Kentucky until mid to late July. the Kentucky study is also incredibly frustrating. they do a great job of breaking down the age range of the case and control groups, the date each was originally infected and the overall vaccination status of each but fail to provide any granular data whatsoever as to the how many of each were reinfected in May / June 2021. considering that the Kentucky study measured original infection all the way back to March 2020, it is massively disappointing that they didn't share that reinfection data for each age group with respect to vaccination status. it's a question that many have that they could have conferred.I'll pass then. The Israel study has been discussed at length already.
Here is the new study that contradicts that study though
Regardless, vaccine or having natural immunity is good either way but both should be supported with a booster shot at some point.
also with respect to the Kentucky study the fully vaccinated portion would be, at most, 3 to 4 months post fully vaccinated date and more likely than not much less. it stands to reason they would do well in a short term study especially since every one of them also had natural immunity in addition to the shot.
The Israel study is more recent and covers hundreds of thousands of people, similar to the UK study that had corroborating results. Both the UK and Israel studies focused on delta when comparing vaccine efficacy to natural immunity. both studies did also find that a booster in addition to NI was optimal as you note.
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The Israel data in the article isn’t a study. It is the government dashboard. Israel actually provides covid cases including vaccination status.I'll pass then. The Israel study has been discussed at length already.
Here is the new study that contradicts that study though
Regardless, vaccine or having natural immunity is good either way but both should be supported with a booster shot at some point.
I guess the data from the Israel government inside the article isn’t a good source either.
All it requires is an email address. I have one email I use strictly for such situations. Here is one quote.
“Is that what’s really going on? It’s certainly not the case in Israel, the first country to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against the virus. Now it has one of the highest daily infection rates and the majority of people catching the virus (77 percent to 83 percent, depending on age) are already vaccinated, according to data collected by the Israeli government.”
That's fine and all but is not remotely indicative of what is going on in the United States, which is what we all really care about.
Also, the analysis is flawed to begin with. If the vast majority of Israeli's are vaccinated then of course most of the cases will be from those vaccinated. If 950 of 1000 people are vaccinated and 50 have natural antibodies then from that group the vast majority of cases should also be those vaccinated because we already know the vaccine isn't as strong against Delta.
The US is only about 57% vaccinated and those numbers tell a different story.
Need a lot more info than just vax status. As you said once you vax most then almost all your cases are vaxxed people. Need to see if that group getting it despite vax is doing better than had they not. If you get a ton of breakthrough cases but not a lot of hospitalizations and only rare deaths, then it’s working. This is not a zero or one.
74.4% of US adults 18+ have had at least one shot. the CDC data is rarely as current as that of the individual states although it is within a couple of percentage points of the actual live data. for example the CDC measures florida as having an 82.3% fully vaxxed rate for the 65+ but FDOH measures that at 87%.
the CDC measures the US as 61.5% fully vaccinated in its eligible population 12+ and 72.4% partially vaccinated. in its most vulnerable population the vaccination rate is 81.8% full and 92.1% partial for those 65+.
COVID Data Tracker
CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.
covid.cdc.gov
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Check the country your going to. The EU is going to ban US travelers again (tourists). I was there a month or so ago and had to test coming and going. Testing there is easy and fast (same day) but expensive. Vaccinations status is hit or miss as to what you have to do. Check reopen eu it has all the latest.
Israel is about 60% fully vaccinated according to a google search. 1 million previously infected of a 8 million population. Leaves alot of people that could catch it.
I've been looking into it because I'm going to London/Iceland in November. A lot of the countries are saying they have no immediate plans to change their covid requirements and/or ban.
One issue I have generally with all of the studies, not just Israel, is it's impossible to factor in the risk element into it. Are vaccinated people in Israel going out in public way more often because they assume they can't get it? No idea. I think the only information that's very clear is that vaccination does lead to a much lower chance of hospitalization or chance of death versus someone not vaccinated that has not had Covid before. My point of view is that even if natural antibodies are just as good is the risk of getting extremely sick or dying because of Delta more than just getting the vaccine?
That's kind of my feeling on the whole thing. If vaccinated folks are getting it but they are not getting critically ill or dying (for the most part) then the infection rate isn't the issue and the risk is lower.
that's where the UK study is helpful. the UK is wide open and has had people in its football stadiums and pubs etc. for many weeks now enjoying the Euros and now currently English league football.
it provides that clear indication of natural immunity vs various levels of vaccinated immunity and also NI + vaccine. the UK overall is more vaccinated than the US but there are many individual US states, including Florida, that have vaccination rates similar to the UK.
The risk of getting covid to gain immunity is way higher than vaccine risks.
From the Epoch piece, which is largely about bad data around covid:
As reported by [the AP], “The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.”
At the same time . . . a person is only considered fully vaccinated fourteen days after they have had the full series of the vaccine.
This means that anyone coming into an American hospital who has only had one dose, or who has had both vaccines but had the second one less than two weeks prior, will likely be counted as “unvaccinated.”
So when the South Carolina’s Department of Health . . . released a report . . . on July 23, 2021, they reported higher morbidity and mortality rates in the “not fully vaccinated.” Are these people who have had one vaccine and gotten sick, two vaccines and gotten sick, or no vaccines at all? Without more details, it is impossible to know what is really going on. “We don’t have accurate numbers,” insists Dr. James Neuenschwander, an expert on vaccine safety based in Ann Arbor, Michigan
Next subsection titled "Overcounting Covid" - Epoch provides examples of extreme overcounts/specific cases that shouldn't have been considered covid, or numbers that were outright fabrications.
Final subsection titled "Who's suffering from sever COVID, vaccinated or unvaccinated?" Epoch provides quotes from doctors, including this one.
Dr. Peter McCullough, an academic internist and cardiologist in practice in Dallas, Texas, says that a large number of people in the hospitals right now have, indeed, been fully vaccinated. “Fully vaccinated people are being hospitalized, and … 19 percent of them have died,” McCullough says. “This is not a crisis of the unvaccinated. That’s just a talking point. The vaccinated are participating in this.”
Anyway, that's hardly a far right article, although they make too much of the Israeli data. I think they raise fair points--overarching theme is our data is insufficient to support many of the policies being imposed.
As reported by [the AP], “The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.”
At the same time . . . a person is only considered fully vaccinated fourteen days after they have had the full series of the vaccine.
This means that anyone coming into an American hospital who has only had one dose, or who has had both vaccines but had the second one less than two weeks prior, will likely be counted as “unvaccinated.”
So when the South Carolina’s Department of Health . . . released a report . . . on July 23, 2021, they reported higher morbidity and mortality rates in the “not fully vaccinated.” Are these people who have had one vaccine and gotten sick, two vaccines and gotten sick, or no vaccines at all? Without more details, it is impossible to know what is really going on. “We don’t have accurate numbers,” insists Dr. James Neuenschwander, an expert on vaccine safety based in Ann Arbor, Michigan
Next subsection titled "Overcounting Covid" - Epoch provides examples of extreme overcounts/specific cases that shouldn't have been considered covid, or numbers that were outright fabrications.
Final subsection titled "Who's suffering from sever COVID, vaccinated or unvaccinated?" Epoch provides quotes from doctors, including this one.
Dr. Peter McCullough, an academic internist and cardiologist in practice in Dallas, Texas, says that a large number of people in the hospitals right now have, indeed, been fully vaccinated. “Fully vaccinated people are being hospitalized, and … 19 percent of them have died,” McCullough says. “This is not a crisis of the unvaccinated. That’s just a talking point. The vaccinated are participating in this.”
Anyway, that's hardly a far right article, although they make too much of the Israeli data. I think they raise fair points--overarching theme is our data is insufficient to support many of the policies being imposed.
Researchers at King’s College London just had their study published in Lancet Infectious Diseases journal. Looks like the study might be behind a wall, but here is the press release by the authors which shouldn't be.
Good one.
"The study, published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases, found that in the unlikely event of catching COVID-19 after being double vaccinated, the risk of Long COVID was reduced by almost half. There were also fewer hospitalisations (73% less likely) and lower burden of acute symptoms (31% less likely) among those fully vaccinated. The nature of the most common symptoms were similar to unvaccinated adults – e.g. anosmia,(loss of smell) cough, fever, headaches, and fatigue. All these symptoms were milder and less frequently reported by people who were vaccinated, and they were half as likely to get multiple symptoms in the first week of illness. Sneezing was the only symptom which was more commonly reported in vaccinated people with COVID-19."
"The study, published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases, found that in the unlikely event of catching COVID-19 after being double vaccinated, the risk of Long COVID was reduced by almost half. There were also fewer hospitalisations (73% less likely) and lower burden of acute symptoms (31% less likely) among those fully vaccinated. The nature of the most common symptoms were similar to unvaccinated adults – e.g. anosmia,(loss of smell) cough, fever, headaches, and fatigue. All these symptoms were milder and less frequently reported by people who were vaccinated, and they were half as likely to get multiple symptoms in the first week of illness. Sneezing was the only symptom which was more commonly reported in vaccinated people with COVID-19."
About 74% for adults over 18 with just one shot thus far. The 57% includes kids over 12.
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