Thanks for the great contribution without any specifics of what is a poor point and why.
Just because something isn't the popular opinion based on kneejerk reaction or raw emotion, doesn't mean it is a poor point.
SAE what say you!
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Just because something isn't the popular opinion based on kneejerk reaction or raw emotion, doesn't mean it is a poor point.
Brotherhood in the terms of knowing your chapter had black members that came before you, yet you sing that song. What you heard about the Omegas and Nupes at the school you went to, means nothing in this thread due to you not knowing anything about their pledge processes.
This post was edited on 3/11 8:03 PM by kosmiknupe6
It's still protected. The strongest argument is that it was fighting words... but the Supreme Court hasnt upheld a content-based fighting words punishment or conviction since 1942. This is definitely protected speech in this context and it should be. The 1st Amendment would be quite useless if the government or a majority of the population could decide what is and isn't protected speech.
Most organizations get some type of funding from the school. Fraternities\sororities can get in trouble with the University for negative off-campus transgressions which could lead to suspensions or loss of the charter. Individual student matters will usually fall under the CoC.
I don't really get too concerned over the legality of OU's actions. It doesn't matter if the OU president was advised by his legal team not to do it, he had to kick them out. There is no chance in hell the kids would take the school to court and make an even bigger name for themselves.
Good article... here is OU's response:
"There is no double standard at the University of Oklahoma. We punish bad behavior without regard to race. He (Mixon) was suspended from the team for a year and was not allowed to play. He was also ordered to perform community service, which he has completed. We punish bad behavior without regard to whether a person is an athlete or non-athlete, black or white. It is sheer and utter nonsense to make such a statement. We are colorblind at the University of Oklahoma and make no distinction between athletes and non-athletes. We have even taken one case to the state Supreme Court to enforce the findings of our internal disciplinary process under Title IX, in a case involving a student athlete (OU linebacker Frank Shannon)."
That stance is really indefensible. The incredible irony here is the link between the SAE video and the football team. Stand up against racism but not violence against women?
I honestly don't care that there is an inconsistency. The bar for the inconsistent treatment of student athletes is set with the admission process. But this thinly veiled attempt to justify their actions is absurd. It would be refreshing for him to say the football player is much more valuable to this school than a bunch of frat boys.
As we whistle by the graveyard, check Al Sharpton's statements regarding 'crackers', alternate lifestyles, greek philosophers, etc. He gets to have his picture taken with the Pres at Selma, even though he uses the vilest forms of reference to people and has unfettered whitehouse access.
I don;t agree with what was said, I agree with most of the actions taken by OU, but there is rampant racism to be found in lots of areas and some just seem not to get called out.
I don;t agree with what was said, I agree with most of the actions taken by OU, but there is rampant racism to be found in lots of areas and some just seem not to get called out.
Not sure why its amazing or standard when someone points out that there is racism in all forms and everywhere, but there are different levels of acceptance, punishment and tolerance in this hypocritical society.
NMac stated that he didnt condone the SAEs actions and that he supported the schools decission to punish. He wasnt stating that these kids should get off because others get away with it (now that would be the amazing, standard cracker reply). Should he have started a new thread on what racism is more accepted, tolerated and less punishable?
Super, now that we all agree that Sharpton should be kicked out of OU we can get back to discussing how we should punish the rappers!
Because it's not germane to this particular topic and it's always brought up as some counter point. First, you're using a cartoon character as some "gotcha" form of hypocrisy in society and this board does it all the time. Sharpton and Jackson are caricatures that I find it amazing people take them seriously and think continuously using them as some barometer for comparison is "amazing".
Second, we can have a lengthy, legitimate and honest discussion about this exact situation w/ the OU SAE students w/out falling into comical tropes. I roll my eyes whenever someone breaks out the Sharpton/Jackson trump card, b/c to me they don't want to be intellectually honest about a topic.
BTW, the geniuses on the Morning Joe blamed all this on that "rap music". Said those poor frat boys probably learned that naughty word from listening from Waka Flocka. I wish I was lying.
If they are anything like the "old south" guys at FSU from Tampa and Orlando they actually "learned" it as a cool thing in college. I would even bet many of these kids at OU when to large public schools in Oklahoma City and had many black friends.
I wouldn't go so far as to say they learned it from rap music, but I will agree that as much as black people use that supposedly heinous word-that-must-never be-uttered in so many of their songs, it does tend to desensitize people to the use of the word.
I will never forget the first time I was in the car with my son and his friends and they played the song that goes, ummm....
"N N N N N N N...I'm 100% N
N N N N N N N, I'm 200% N." And so on and so forth.
Yikes!
It is interesting. I grew up with rap music, still bump N.W.A, DJ Quick, Too Short to this day. I grew up listening to rappers say it all the time in the early 80s and 90s rap music. Had black friends that said and some of their parents who said it. I also grew up in a military town w/ a very mixed group of people, a lot of white friends that I had listened to the exact same music I did, we listened to it together, we'd share and rip audio tapes for each but I never heard any of my white friends use it. Ever. I never used it in the house or outside b/c I knew if my dad found out, he'd kick my ass b/c he loathed the word.
So young white kids have been listening to the "n" word in music since the late 80s and early 90s (I know user War Grundle and cblunt who are both white grew up with it) but there was never this ease of use of the word in casual settings. I've seen Facebook entries w/ teenage white girls using it to describe their everyday lives. I'm talking dainty proper looking girls dropping n bombs about random stuff.
I think it all comes back to the parents, young adults have been listening to this type of music for a long time but I bet your son wouldn't drop the n word just b/c he heard it in a song.
And what do you think desensitized them to the idea of lynching black people? The History Channel? This is fun. Who else can we blame? Obama?
Don't throw a hissy fit. I didn't say anything about lynching. My post was in response to somene else's post saying that the frat boys probably learned the word from listening to a rapper. Obviously, I don't agree with that, but the word IS tossed around in songs and popular culture all the time. I personally would never say it. Ever. But when you have a bunch of teenage boys in the car singing a song with the n word in it, I think it does tend to desensitize them to the word. And I do have a problem with the whole "black people use it as a term of endearment, so it's ok when they say it but white people can't say it ever." And before you go off on me, I will just tell you right now that I am 0% white.
You were the one who brought it up, lol!
This post was edited on 3/12 7:52 PM by NoleHitterThru8
This post was edited on 3/12 7:52 PM by NoleHitterThru8
Can we stop pretending that they are the same word? Not spelled the same, not used the same, not the same. Only people who treat them the same are talking heads on the news when stories like this pop up.
There are plenty of black people who have a problem with the use of the word in that context, but that's not what happened here. These guys used the word in earnest as an epithet. Blaming rap music for this isn't even subtle racism. It'd be like punching a minority, and then blaming boxing for desensitizing you to the punching of minorities.
Though I generally agree with you, at some point it has to be either an offensive or not offensive word--regardless of context or race of the speaker. As a society, we should either move beyond the word--or not.
It's weird for someone to claim the word is offensive when white people use it & not black. That makes little sense. I have no desire to use it, but why do rappers? The whole premise that there's some exclusivity on a word, is absurd. I'm not offended by the hoarding of the word--because I have no desire to use it--but it can make the whole uproar seem ridiculous.
I have to call BS on the "not spelled the same" thing. My husband and I drove to Memphis with our then 17yr old son. we were subjected to several hours of one of the Sirius rap stations...it plays non-censored rap songs. Notwithstanding some of the other aspects of the lyrics I was surprised at how many of the songs clearly say the N word ending clearly in GER vs the nice endearing N word ending in GA.
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