SAE what say you!

[OneNeverNoles]

This conversation is a dumb strawman being used by people that want to excuse these "poor boys" and racism.

Take the n-word out of their chant and replace it with "black" and guess what? IT'S STILL RACIST AND PROBLEMATIC. It's not about the n-word.

 

[BelemNole]

Originally posted by fsugrad:
I have to call BS on the "not spelled the same" thing. My husband and I drove to Memphis with our then 17yr old son. we were subjected to several hours of one of the Sirius rap stations...it plays non-censored rap songs. Notwithstanding some of the other aspects of the lyrics I was surprised at how many of the songs clearly say the N word ending clearly in GER vs the nice endearing N word ending in GA.

Sounds like you have bigger problems if you're not even in control of the radio in your own car.

 

[Seminole Al]

Originally posted by JohnnieHolmesNole:
I am not there to monitor it, but I think everything that goes on in college campuses is a microcosm of society as a whole. Sure, there are some racists in all organizations (including the predominantly minority ones). And you have some folks who are dirtballs, criminals, Sunday school teachers, volunteers and everything else. Can't generalize too broadly.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

The question didn't specify. It simply asked if "fraternities" at FSU were racist. To me, "fraternities" include predominantly minority ones. Your having to parenthetically indicate"including predominantly minority ones" says a lot about you.

 

[tommynole3476]

The using of an epithet by the target group to reduce its power or effect on said group, is not new, nor is it exclusive to AA. Homosexuals have done it with the F word too.

It's not really a hard concept to understand. And it doesn't excuse someone's use of the word, who is outside of that target group; especially when they're not using it in a way that attempts to reduce its power or effect.

Heck, even many families practice this to a lesser extent. I'm sure there are things we all say to our own family members that wouldn't be acceptable if someone outside your family said it the exact same way.

 

[Bartdog]

regardless of how you spell it or pronounce it, the usage is different. One is a put down and the other is like my boy or my bitch (I'm thinking of Denzel in Training Day).

 

[fsugrad]

Originally posted by BelemNole:

Originally posted by fsugrad:
I have to call BS on the "not spelled the same" thing. My husband and I drove to Memphis with our then 17yr old son. we were subjected to several hours of one of the Sirius rap stations...it plays non-censored rap songs. Notwithstanding some of the other aspects of the lyrics I was surprised at how many of the songs clearly say the N word ending clearly in GER vs the nice endearing N word ending in GA.

Sounds like you have bigger problems if you're not even in control of the radio in your own car.

Belemnole, I have zero problems with our son, thank you very much. He
was a high school senior at the time and is now finishing up his
freshman year at FSU. Actually he'll be a junior next year due to the
high # of AP exams he passed and got college credit for in HS. And he'll
be an 18 year old junior, to boot. Great kid. to Are you saying it's
improper to have let a high school senior listen to a rap station for a
portion of our 12 hour drive? I found it very enlightening and it led to
some great discussions. One of which was my surprise that the word
clearly ending in GER was frequently used, not the sweet nice word
ending in GA.

SAE was wrong. They are idiots for chanting that vile chant. I agree with them getting punished as they did.
Racism is wrong.

However,
the prevalence of the N word used in popular culture is problematic as
well. This is a completely separate issue from the SAE racist jerks. It
doesn't justify their actions at all. I don't blame it on rap music
although someone brought that up in a prior post. My opinion is simply
that the N word should be wrong for ALL to say. Not glorified in a rap
song where it's ok, whether it ends in GER or GA (so stupid) and then
people go nuts when others use it.

 

[tommynole3476]

Why is the use of the word in pop culture problematic when that use is what has helped remove its oppressive power?

When the oppressor's power is removed, they don't get to decide how those they oppressed reverse the tools of their oppression.

There are plenty of things in our society that it is perfectly normal and acceptable for one group of people to do/say, but not another. Why does this word have to be different?

Why does it bother anyone that one group has 'taken over' a word?

Does it bother you because you want to use it and don't feel free to? Or does it bother you because AA seem like they're having so much fun using it, and you're not allowed in on the fun?

 

[oldscalphunter]

Originally posted by OneNeverNoles:
This conversation is a dumb strawman being used by people that want to excuse these "poor boys" and racism.

Take the n-word out of their chant and replace it with "black" and guess what? IT'S STILL RACIST AND PROBLEMATIC. It's not about the n-word.

It's still racist... but if you're referring to anything other than the part about "you can hang them from a tree"... then I disagree with you. I think it's completely okay for groups to not allow anyone and everyone join their group. If it's based on race--fine. Based on religion--fine. Based on sexual orientation--fine. Group that only takes d-bags--fine. Group that only takes people who bic their heads--fine. I don't think that's problematic at all. Who cares what it's based on? Do you want to be a part of a group that doesn't want you, or doesn't have similar ideas as you? I wouldn't. There are hundreds of different organizations at any given school.

 

[oldscalphunter]

Originally posted by tommynole3476:
Why is the use of the word in pop culture problematic when that use is what has helped remove its oppressive power?

When the oppressor's power is removed, they don't get to decide how those they oppressed reverse the tools of their oppression.

There are plenty of things in our society that it is perfectly normal and acceptable for one group of people to do/say, but not another. Why does this word have to be different?

Why does it bother anyone that one group has 'taken over' a word?

Does it bother you because you want to use it and don't feel free to? Or does it bother you because AA seem like they're having so much fun using it, and you're not allowed in on the fun?

I assume you're referring to my post, and you clearly didn't read the whole thing.

 

[tommynole3476]

Originally posted by oldscalphunter:

Originally posted by tommynole3476:
Why is the use of the word in pop culture problematic when that use is what has helped remove its oppressive power?

When the oppressor's power is removed, they don't get to decide how those they oppressed reverse the tools of their oppression.

There are plenty of things in our society that it is perfectly normal and acceptable for one group of people to do/say, but not another. Why does this word have to be different?

Why does it bother anyone that one group has 'taken over' a word?

Does it bother you because you want to use it and don't feel free to? Or does it bother you because AA seem like they're having so much fun using it, and you're not allowed in on the fun?

I assume you're referring to my post, and you clearly didn't read the whole thing.

Ironically enough, no, I wasn't referring to your post.

 

[mnole03]

Originally posted by tommynole3476:
Why is the use of the word in pop culture problematic when that use is what has helped remove its oppressive power?

When the oppressor's power is removed, they don't get to decide how those they oppressed reverse the tools of their oppression.

There are plenty of things in our society that it is perfectly normal and acceptable for one group of people to do/say, but not another. Why does this word have to be different?

Why does it bother anyone that one group has 'taken over' a word?

Does it bother you because you want to use it and don't feel free to? Or does it bother you because AA seem like they're having so much fun using it, and you're not allowed in on the fun?

But the use in pop culture hasn't had that effect. The pejorative is still incredibly powerful. Secondary usage hasn't changed that at all. Changing attitudes towards racism and public condemnation are why the word is rarely used in public. Introducing what is essentially a homonym that is widely used in popular culture with sometimes unclear exclusionary usage rules and policing seems counterproductive.