That's the plan. If the bills on the agenda up here are enacted, we will be gone before the school year starts.
There are no long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines
- Thread starter Dhersh
- Start date
- Status
Not as easy to confirm I don't believe. nAB are the best bet against infection and that is what I would hope last, personally.
Measuring the T Cell Immune Response to COVID-19
To discover how the strength of a person’s immune response to SARS-CoV-2 can be assessed, and why this is important, <i>Technology Networks</i> spoke with Andrew Makin, VP Medical Affairs, Oxford Immunotec.
www.technologynetworks.com
Making a rib roast up at our cabin tomorrow. God I can't wait
Interesting. However, "T-SPOT Discovery SARS-CoV-2 remains a 'research use only' test." It would be nice if such a technology could be made more widely available. Good to know it's out there tho.Measuring the T Cell Immune Response to COVID-19
To discover how the strength of a person’s immune response to SARS-CoV-2 can be assessed, and why this is important, <i>Technology Networks</i> spoke with Andrew Makin, VP Medical Affairs, Oxford Immunotec.
According to the folks at Johns Hopkins, natural immunity boosted by vaccination is actually better than natural immunity alone.
But then again maybe they aren’t as qualified or bright to rely upon for medical science guidance as are the “half a brain” sources you cited?
COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know
Even if you’ve already had COVID-19, getting a coronavirus vaccine is recommended. These are the things you need to know about COVID natural immunity.
They said that because the government told them to.According to the folks at Johns Hopkins, natural immunity boosted by vaccination is actually better than natural immunity alone.
But then again maybe they aren’t as qualified or bright to rely upon for medical science guidance as are the “half a brain” sources you cited?
COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know
Even if you’ve already had COVID-19, getting a coronavirus vaccine is recommended. These are the things you need to know about COVID natural immunity.www.hopkinsmedicine.org
Interesting. Sounds like you’ve got some valuable intel. Can you please give the name(s) of whoever in “the government” (US, a multi-nation coalition of governments since there are similar studies all over the world, maybe some interplanetary government?) is telling all the scientists what to say? I’d like to better understand the dastardly plan. Thanks man.
It's leading some to speculate that if you got Pfizer or Moderna, the J&J might be a good booster option.
To your point, the J&J vaccine has shown to be inferior in almost every way. I got Pfizer first and happened to get Moderna when I was boosted which I was happy about.
Many things are wrong with this statement. I have checked and do not find the number you state. However it is misleading as wekk. The UK has very high vaccination rates especially in the groups that are at risk for death. If 100 percent of the people were vaccinated of a group than 100 percent of the deaths would be vaccinated. Across the board in the UK the unvaccinated are dying at a much higher rate per 100,000 thousand people that are unvaccinated than those that are vaccinated.
It’s right from their weekly data they release. The most current iteration is dated 12/23. You don’t have to like it but it’s what it is.
the UK’s vaccination rates are about 5% higher than the US and only marginally higher in the most vulnerable population. Also need to note that the CDC handicaps US vaccination rates as they won’t recognize any jurisdiction above 95% even if a jurisdiction is 100% vaccinated for a certain population.
the rates per 100,000 i have quoted many times and always do acknowledge that hospitalization rates and death rates are higher in the unvaccinated by that metric.
by the same token we also should acknowledge that infection rates are twice as high in UK vaccinated adults than their unvaccinated counterparts per 100,000.
as a side note I don’t generally agree with how the death numbers are calculated when using the 100,000 metric. The vaccine’s job is to keep people out of the hospital, and it does a good job of that, but once they’re in there it’s just my opinion that population of people (the hospitalized) should be compared for outcome.
Yep, you’re absolutely right… that poster has been going thread to thread posting that same or similar UK factoids about X number or % of vaccinated Brits dying of Covid, which regardless whether true or false as stated, are so lacking in important context that they’re clearly meant only to deceive gullible readers into thinking vaccination isn’t really so valuable.
Unvaccinated Brits continue to die of Covid at higher rates than fully vaccinated, when properly adjusted for the prevalence of vax/unvax status.
I’ve called him on it several times, but he persists. Seems to be a pattern with so many of the vax detractors… posting BS “data” and internet myths, often followed by some “I can’t be guilty since I’m personally fully vaccinated” attempt at cover.
Bizarre.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2RP28I
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...eathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31october2021
Nice cherry pick. Let’s use the data where the vast majority of people were unvaccinated between January and May 2021.
you can easily link the weekly updates, all of them if you want to.
i’m sorry that you insulate yourself in your feel good data bubble. Assuming you were born in 61 i truly, truly hope you don’t end up in hospital at any point with covid because the outcome is far less certain than you might hope it to be.
my parents are well into their 70’s, like to travel a lot and feel generally invincible. I just like to make sure they have a clear picture of their risks. And of course they are vaccinated and boosted. I spent hours on the phone and Internet getting them in line as soon as possible when the vaccines became available.
Lol nobody with at least some modicum of a clue thinks the fully vaxxed are invincible.
Nobody in any official position of public health authority has made the claim that if you’re fully vaxxed you can recklessly inhale busloads of random strangers’ sneezes and lick all the airport floors you want — there doesn’t actually seem to be any need for you or anyone else to warn people that yes, you can still be hospitalized and maybe even die of Covid regardless of vax status.
But the most important fact continues to be that getting fully vaxxed and boosted gives you much better odds of staying out of the hospital and of surviving Covid, in all age groups, than does going unvaxxed.
Of course that doesn’t make anybody Covid bulletproof.
Spoiler alert — as more US and UK citizens are vaxxed and boosted, more fully vaxxed US and UK citizens will die of Covid, until it hopefully peters out at some point. None of that lessens the importance of maximizing the % of people who do get vaxxed and boosted.
Here’s hoping 2022 sees the end of Covid-19 and a significant decrease in misleading “factoids” on all forms of social media.
We agree, we disagree. But regardless I appreciate your tone and tolerance. It certainly doesn’t go unnoticed
Seems to be a good deal of talking past each other. Nonetheless here’s hoping 2022 is going to be “a year in the clear” for all of us.
Random WC poster or Johns Hopkins?
Tough one.
COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know
Even if you’ve already had COVID-19, getting a coronavirus vaccine is recommended. These are the things you need to know about COVID natural immunity.
It’s funny how this all comes full circle.
Vaccines were created with idea to literally stopping transmission. They didn’t (not a fault issue). But they do prepare body to fight the virus better so you have a better chance of beating it more easily.
Natural immunity is good. It it’s got two phases. One is existing and continued antibodies that presumably prevent us from getting and transmitting it. The other is the TCell response following lack of active antibodies, which, well don’t prevent us from getting it but respond to virus so we don’t get it as bad.
Funny parallel. What’s interesting is the abject failure of policy makers to include the latter in any policy while totally fetishizing the former.
There has never been a vaccine created to stop transmission. Every vaccine was created to beef up the bodies immune response and prevent serious disease/symptoms. The government was stupid when it started this "save grandma" crap. By beefing up the bodies immune system viral load is decreased and the chance of having a significant viral load to spread is reduced. Eventually, the virus has trouble spreading because everyone it meets has a significant immune reaction reducing the viral load. Chicken pox is an example of that. You first had the disease as a child, and then every 10 years or so you ran into it again and your body reacted inducing immune reaction (when your younger siblings got it, your children, your friends children, your grandchildren, etc.) This reaction is strong enough to prevent symptoms. Vaccine is usually a poor substitute for getting the disease. But there are a couple diseases, that cause enough damage you want to use the vaccine for immunity (polio, small pox, Covid, etc.) Vaccine are also used when you can't change the environment to reduce the spread like we do in the 1st world. No vaccine is perfect and will prevent all disease or symptoms. But, over time it will keep it under control. Influenza and the common cold are two examples of constantly mutating variants that keep vaccine efficiency down. We average close to 50,000 deaths a year in the USA from influenza despite the vaccine. Think this is where Covid is going.
the difficulty with drawing comparison between influenza and covid is that the flu numbers are algorithm driven. only a fraction of the flu tests are actually performed vs. the case load estimated through flunet each season whereas for covid i'm not sure if i've come across anyone that hasn't had a swab stuffed up their nose at some point since March 2020?
i think where people get confused, or probably just tired really, is the flip flopping of terms. for example the shots that all kids should receive (sans legit concerns such as allergic reaction or illness) are and have always been known as the child and adolescent immunization schedule.
most of the vaccines in that schedule might require one or more doses but in general those vaccinations occur only once or twice in a person's lifetime. influenza vaccine does appear on that list with one dose annually as a recommendation.
the legal wrangling over what the covid vaccine can or can't do is where frustration sets in.
i absolutely agree that the most vulnerable and most adults in general benefit from the covid vaccine. i'm very skeptical of regular multiple dosing of mRNA based drugs. i can't ignore all of the safety problems that moderna was having with multiple dosing in their attempt to find a cure for crigler najjar syndrome through 2018 to the point that moderna had to abandon the project and instead focus on vaccines.
stat+ news reported back then:
" The indefinite delay on the Crigler-Najjar project signals persistent and troubling safety concerns for any mRNA treatment that needs to be delivered in multiple doses, covering almost everything that isn’t a vaccine, former employees and collaborators said. "
i'm comfortable with the two doses and heck even the booster but the suggestion that people might need 4 doses of mRNA based meds per year on an annualized basis (depending on a particular variant) doesn't give me any warm and fuzzies.
i think where people get confused, or probably just tired really, is the flip flopping of terms. for example the shots that all kids should receive (sans legit concerns such as allergic reaction or illness) are and have always been known as the child and adolescent immunization schedule.
most of the vaccines in that schedule might require one or more doses but in general those vaccinations occur only once or twice in a person's lifetime. influenza vaccine does appear on that list with one dose annually as a recommendation.
the legal wrangling over what the covid vaccine can or can't do is where frustration sets in.
i absolutely agree that the most vulnerable and most adults in general benefit from the covid vaccine. i'm very skeptical of regular multiple dosing of mRNA based drugs. i can't ignore all of the safety problems that moderna was having with multiple dosing in their attempt to find a cure for crigler najjar syndrome through 2018 to the point that moderna had to abandon the project and instead focus on vaccines.
stat+ news reported back then:
" The indefinite delay on the Crigler-Najjar project signals persistent and troubling safety concerns for any mRNA treatment that needs to be delivered in multiple doses, covering almost everything that isn’t a vaccine, former employees and collaborators said. "
i'm comfortable with the two doses and heck even the booster but the suggestion that people might need 4 doses of mRNA based meds per year on an annualized basis (depending on a particular variant) doesn't give me any warm and fuzzies.
I'm sure we will not need 4 shots per year f any vaccine, but of course we will need to wait to see how vaccine development progresses and how COVID evolves.
Very likely the case in that order (NI then booster). There may be issues developing full natural immunity if you’re vaccinated prior to infection.According to the folks at Johns Hopkins, natural immunity boosted by vaccination is actually better than natural immunity alone.
But then again maybe they aren’t as qualified or bright to rely upon for medical science guidance as are the “half a brain” sources you cited?
COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know
Even if you’ve already had COVID-19, getting a coronavirus vaccine is recommended. These are the things you need to know about COVID natural immunity.
There are tons of people who have contracted Covid and were not tested. I work in an office with around 30 people and of that group I know of at least a handful that fit that description including myself. Most were exposed through spouses that tested positive and when they got sick did not see the point of a test. I rode in a car with a person on a two hour unmasked road trip. The next day he tested positive. A day or two later I got mild symptoms that eventually included loss of taste and smell. I did not get tested.
yep. not disputing that occurs just more to the point that the vast number of people in that scenario get tested for covid. there's about 1.5 million tests conducted annually for influenza in any given year in the US. we're well over 800 million covid tests administered in the US in the now approximately 2 years since the first reported cases here.
Some people get tested a lot. I have one person that probably averaged 2 tests per week and they were all negative. 800 million tests but it would be interesting to know how many people were in that number. I just refuse to take the time to be tested. I told everyone that if I ever am tested it will be after they admit me to the hospital.
Are you sure your Flu Vs Covid tests data here is apples to apples? I know Covid tests are much higher than Flu (makes sense throughout a Covid pandemic of this size and impact), but the estimates I’ve seen of total annual flu tests of all types (not just reported to CDC) is more in the 30 million+ neighborhood.
But maybe your 800 million Covid tests since its beginning is also just those reported to CDC? I haven’t checked.
Providers switching flu testing options under pressure to compete with Walgreens, CVS
A more costly and much more complex flu test is gaining ground, despite the conveniences of point-of-care rapid testing.
www.modernhealthcare.com
good link. i believe the approximately 1.5 million tests represents what is collected by FluNet facilities specifically? they ultimately crunch the data estimates from that.Are you sure your Flu Vs Covid tests data here is apples to apples? I know Covid tests are much higher than Flu (makes sense throughout a Covid pandemic of this size and impact), but the estimates I’ve seen of total annual flu tests of all types (not just reported to CDC) is more in the 30 million+ neighborhood.
But maybe your 800 million Covid tests since its beginning is also just those reported to CDC? I haven’t checked.
Not particularly important, just curious if we’re comparing comparable data here.Providers switching flu testing options under pressure to compete with Walgreens, CVS
A more costly and much more complex flu test is gaining ground, despite the conveniences of point-of-care rapid testing.
They cite a CDC study that seems misleading, at best, for the proposition that vaccinated people with no natural immunity were 5x less likely to test positive for covid than unvaccinated with natural immunity. No chance that’s accurate unless you somehow skew the sample. The CDC study would be a first showing that. Other studies show robust natural immunity from reinfection, far better than anything provided by the vaccine only.Random WC poster or Johns Hopkins?
Tough one.
COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know
Even if you’ve already had COVID-19, getting a coronavirus vaccine is recommended. These are the things you need to know about COVID natural immunity.
Everything is skewed once you start testing asymptomatic people and testing everyone in certain circumstances like admittance into a hospital, health care workers, nursing home workers, military, etc.
Your information is contrary to everything I have read for the last several months. The CDC is more in line the prevalent information on this subject. I am not saying you are wrong but I read a lot and not just news sources and what is out there is the vaccination provides many times the antibodies of natural immunity.
Does that make sense to you? In drawing your own conclusions about how things work, are you willing to completely disregard your own thoughts about this?
I do not know enough about how these things work to have an independent opinion on this matter. It makes less sense to me that the experts are lying. I do not believe in conspiracies. The government has a poor track record on keeping secrets and it is harder today than ever. So if you are asking me if I believe I would probably tell you yes.
The Israeli study, which was very large, showed 20-30x (don’t recall the exact multiple) more protection with natural immunity & no vaccination vs. only vax. I think the multiple would be larger now, since the vax provides little to no immunity against omicron.
The last statement is probably not accurate as Omicron appears to be able to avoid a good bit of the immunity against Covid whether natural or vaccinated.
Does the US even collect data on natural immunity beyond an odd sample in the cdc study?
More studies say the opposite. I am not saying you wrong and I have natural immunity and been vaccinated and boosted but the consensus has been for a while that vaccination immunity was better than natural immunity at least with the MRNA vaccines.
- Status
Latest posts
-
-
-
Golf Ting-Woad take 1-2 finish as FSU claims Collegiate Invitational- Latest: Bob Ferrante
