U.S. suicides hit an all time high last year. (Personal story from today)

[BrianNole777]

I had a conversation today with an 82 year old gentleman that I know. We were walking up the street together.

He is half blind and declining physically and mentally.

He told me: "Brian, I'm an old man now, going blind and declining. I'm thinking of shooting myself."

He had guns in the house but his partner removed them when his vision declined. His 17 year old Grandson took his friend's Dad's gun and shot himself 2 years ago. Yikes. That made me take this threat more seriously.

We kept walking and I explained why I didn't think he should do that for about 10 minutes:

- His partner and son would be devastated.

- The first responders that cleaned up his carcass would be traumatized.

-He may only permanently injure himself and would live as a "vegetable" for years in a nursing home.

- His legacy would be hurt.

- I still want to see him for years to come.

I told him stories about people who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived. They all regretted jumping as soon as they hit air.

I reminded him to be grateful he's not in chronic pain.

I also told him that he could just stop life extending treatment and let nature take it's course. (He's agnostic and doesn't believe in life after death.)

After I was done talking, he said: "Wow, good points. I wouldn't want to hurt my partner like that. She's the best thing that ever happened to me."

US suicides hit an all-time high last year

About 49,500 people took their own lives last year in the U.S., the highest number ever. That's according to new government data posted Thursday.

apnews.com

 

[F4Gary]

I thought you were telling us a joke....

 

[BrianNole777]

I thought you were telling us a joke....

Nope, unfortunately.

 

[GeddyLee09]

I had a conversation today with an 82 year old gentleman that I know. We were walking up the street together.

He is half blind and declining physically and mentally.

He told me: "Brian, I'm an old man now, going blind and declining. I'm thinking of shooting myself."

He had guns in the house but his partner removed them when his vision declined. His 17 year old Grandson took his friend's Dad's gun and shot himself 2 years ago. Yikes. That made me take this threat more seriously.

We kept walking and I explained why I didn't think he should do that for about 10 minutes:

- His partner and son would be devastated.

- The first responders that cleaned up his carcass would be traumatized.

-He may only permanently injure himself and would live as a "vegetable" for years in a nursing home.

- His legacy would be hurt.

- I still want to see him for years to come.

I told him stories about people who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived. They all regretted jumping as soon as they hit air.

I reminded him to be grateful he's not in chronic pain.

I also told him that he could just stop life extending treatment and let nature take it's course. (He's agnostic and doesn't believe in life after death.)

After I was done talking, he said: "Wow, good points. I wouldn't want to hurt my partner like that. She's the best thing that ever happened to me."

US suicides hit an all-time high last year

About 49,500 people took their own lives last year in the U.S., the highest number ever. That's according to new government data posted Thursday.

apnews.com

Not sure I agree with the implication that guns are the cause. Although im sure thats popular notion its hard to say they wouldnt have done it without them. Suicide is a complicated issue.

 

[BrianNole777]

Not sure I agree with the implication that guns are the cause. Although im sure thats popular notion its hard to say they wouldnt have done it without them. Suicide is a complicated issue.

Access to handguns dramatically increases suicide rates.


"Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t."


“Our findings confirm what virtually every study that has investigated this question over the last 30 years has concluded: Ready access to a gun is a major risk factor for suicide,” said the study’s lead author, David Studdert, LLB, ScD, MPH, professor of medicine at Stanford Health Policy and of law at Stanford Law School.

Handgun ownership associated with much higher suicide risk

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t.

med.stanford.edu

 

[GeddyLee09]

Access to handguns dramatically increases suicide rates.


"Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t."


“Our findings confirm what virtually every study that has investigated this question over the last 30 years has concluded: Ready access to a gun is a major risk factor for suicide,” said the study’s lead author, David Studdert, LLB, ScD, MPH, professor of medicine at Stanford Health Policy and of law at Stanford Law School.

Handgun ownership associated with much higher suicide risk

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t.

med.stanford.edu

Men who owned handguns were eight times more likely than men who didn’t to die of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. Women who owned handguns were more than 35 times more likely than women who didn't to kill themselves with a gun.

Really? People who own a gun are more likely to shoot themselves opposed to those that dont. Thats like saying licensed drivers are more likely to get in a car accident.

More than 1.4 million cohort members died during the study period. Nearly 18,000 of them died by suicide, of which 6,691 were suicides by firearms.

So a third. What methods were used in the other two thirds?

My question is\. How many gun suicides would do it by other means if they had no firearm? This is like the painter using the wrong color and blaming the brush.

 

[GeddyLee09]

The presence of guns in the home is the preeminent concern of mental health professionals when assessing suicide and homicide risk. Nothing else concerns us more, and all of our confidentiality and emergency intervention policies, procedures, and obligations are explicitly different when a gun is present.

These data regarding the increase in deaths by suicide are heartbreaking and unfortunately consistent with longterm trends. Suicide is the second leading cause of death among the populations I treat, behind only the combination of all unintended injuries and accidents.

So how do you keep people with these issues from owning guns? Where is the line?

 

[BrianNole777]

Men who owned handguns were eight times more likely than men who didn’t to die of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. Women who owned handguns were more than 35 times more likely than women who didn't to kill themselves with a gun.

Really? People who own a gun are more likely to shoot themselves opposed to those that dont. Thats like saying licensed drivers are more likely to get in a car accident.

More than 1.4 million cohort members died during the study period. Nearly 18,000 of them died by suicide, of which 6,691 were suicides by firearms.

So a third. What methods were used in the other two thirds?

My question is\. How many gun suicides would do it by other means if they had no firearm? This is like the painter using the wrong color and blaming the brush.

The data shows that owning a gun increases suicide rates. That's the point.

I know you believe you know things better than the data and experts on all subjects.

So, I'll leave you with your unlimited knowledge and wisdom to make your own conclusions.

 

[GeddyLee09]

The data shows that owning a gun increases suicide rates. That's the point.

I know you believe you know things better than the data and experts on all subjects.

So, I'll leave you with your unlimited knowledge and wisdom to make your own conclusions.

Its a discussion. Isnt that the point? It seems you cant have a back and forth when someone questions your assertions.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Many states including my own, are adopting red flag laws for limiting gun possession, but much more frequently we just ask people to give up their guns because we are concerned about them, and they do. As in Brian's scenario, typically a concerned loved one removes the guns from the home. This is the same general strategy that we use for restricting access to any identified means of suicide and self-harm.

I do not understand your question regarding "where is the line."

The question on the line is how do you enact laws on limiting those with mental health issues from purchasing weapons? What database would track that? Would someone who attempted suicide be precluded from buying a gun as other offenses should be? I'm all for limiting access to guns the question is in the definitions.

 

[BrianNole777]

And I will. Like most others on here ill just ignore you as well.

Please do ignore my posts, Geddy.

I would appreciate that.

 

[GeddyLee09]

They work essentially like restraining orders, and they are managed through the courts. The details of those legal processes are beyond my scope of knowledge. You may find this article informative: https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/hea...and-how-can-they-prevent-gun-violence/2023/01

Thanks.

 

[GeddyLee09]

They work essentially like restraining orders, and they are managed through the courts. The details of those legal processes are beyond my scope of knowledge. You may find this article informative: https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/hea...and-how-can-they-prevent-gun-violence/2023/01

Do these orders tie into CODIS or ATF sites for the states? This would be something I think people selling and approving firearm sales would want to have access to. I think the whole system needs to be overhauled. There are ways to limit access in certain cases while still not infringing on constitutional rights. Im a gun advocate but surely dont think everyone should or needs to own them.

 

[ChiefWB]

My friend who lived across the street from us, retired Chicago police officer, took his own life last week. It would be convenient to blame the method in which he chose his exit, however I am of the belief that his declining health, his wife’s struggle with Alzheimer’s and his frustration with those and lack of family support as the main factors. His exit was planned out meticulously without going into details. If we don’t address that massive mental health crisis in this country this issue and others will continue to escalate. The method of the exit in these situations is not the issue imo. There are other avenues (fentanyl) that are just as fast.

 

[BrianNole777]

My friend who lived across the street from us, retired Chicago police officer, took his own life last week. It would be convenient to blame the method in which he chose his exit, however I am of the belief that his declining health, his wife’s struggle with Alzheimer’s and his frustration with those and lack of family support as the main factors. His exit was planned out meticulously without going into details. If we don’t address that massive mental health crisis in this country this issue and others will continue to escalate. The method of the exit in these situations is not the issue imo. There are other avenues (fentanyl) that are just as fast.

Yikes. Sorry for your loss.

 

[GeddyLee09]

My friend who lived across the street from us, retired Chicago police officer, took his own life last week. It would be convenient to blame the method in which he chose his exit, however I am of the belief that his declining health, his wife’s struggle with Alzheimer’s and his frustration with those and lack of family support as the main factors. His exit was planned out meticulously without going into details. If we don’t address that massive mental health crisis in this country this issue and others will continue to escalate. The method of the exit in these situations is not the issue imo. There are other avenues (fentanyl) that are just as fast.

Sorry to hear that. This is my mind set as well. Blaming the method is lazy IMO.

 

[GeddyLee09]

My friend who lived across the street from us, retired Chicago police officer, took his own life last week. It would be convenient to blame the method in which he chose his exit, however I am of the belief that his declining health, his wife’s struggle with Alzheimer’s and his frustration with those and lack of family support as the main factors. His exit was planned out meticulously without going into details. If we don’t address that massive mental health crisis in this country this issue and others will continue to escalate. The method of the exit in these situations is not the issue imo. There are other avenues (fentanyl) that are just as fast.

I had guy that worked for me when I was in the military commit suicide. He told a mental health professional he was considering killing himself due to family issues (money, spouse). They decided he would be placed in the hospital so he could be monitored without access to firearms and drugs. He stabbed himself in the neck with a fork and bled out. During the ensuing investigation the mental health professional stated that by removing the leading risk factors they thought they could stop him.

 

[NoleFan2U]

I had guy that worked for me when I was in the military commit suicide. He told a mental health professional he was considering killing himself due to family issues (money, spouse). They decided he would be placed in the hospital so he could be monitored without access to firearms and drugs. He stabbed himself in the neck with a fork and bled out. During the ensuing investigation the mental health professional stated that by removing the leading risk factors they thought they could stop him.

If someone really wants to die, they will find a way. Sad truth.

 

[SoddyNole]

My friend who lived across the street from us, retired Chicago police officer, took his own life last week. It would be convenient to blame the method in which he chose his exit, however I am of the belief that his declining health, his wife’s struggle with Alzheimer’s and his frustration with those and lack of family support as the main factors. His exit was planned out meticulously without going into details. If we don’t address that massive mental health crisis in this country this issue and others will continue to escalate. The method of the exit in these situations is not the issue imo. There are other avenues (fentanyl) that are just as fast.

Seems like a lot of the older people I hear about that who took their own lives suffer from either Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. It is like the barrier that may have kept you from doing that prior to the disease is taken away.

 

[goldmom]

Seems like a lot of the older people I hear about that who took their own lives suffer from either Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. It is like the barrier are that may have kept you from doing that prior to the disease is taken away.

I wonder if this will be a significant factor if the numbers continue to increase. There’s a large sector of Americans who are aging (Boomers) and as they do these diseases will increase along with a few others.

 

[QuaZ2002]

I had guy that worked for me when I was in the military commit suicide. He told a mental health professional he was considering killing himself due to family issues (money, spouse). They decided he would be placed in the hospital so he could be monitored without access to firearms and drugs. He stabbed himself in the neck with a fork and bled out. During the ensuing investigation the mental health professional stated that by removing the leading risk factors they thought they could stop him.

Well your anecdote disproves all the research, I guess.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Well your anecdote disproves all the research, I guess.

No, and it wasn't an attempt to. What does the research prove? Gun owners are more likely to use a gun to commit suicide? Ok. Gun owners are more likely to commit suicide? The numbers provided really don't say that as half of all suicides are by firearm. Lots of people in the US own or have access to firearms. Also how many of those would do it by other means without the firearm? Its convenient to blame the method but it hardly even attempts to fix the real issue. Blaming guns as the method is lazy IMO regardless of how convenient it is.

 

[QuaZ2002]

No, and it wasn't an attempt to. What does the research prove? Gun owners are more likely to use a gun to commit suicide? Ok. Gun owners are more likely to commit suicide? The numbers provided really don't say that as half of all suicides are by firearm. Lots of people in the US own or have access to firearms. Also how many of those would do it by other means without the firearm? Its convenient to blame the method but it hardly even attempts to fix the real issue. Blaming guns as the method is lazy IMO regardless of how convenient it is.

The research and common sense say having a gun around makes it easier. The research also says, as @BrainVision pointed out that many suicides are impulsive acts. This is like “gun guys” arguing about Mass shootings. No, they aren’t the cause, they just make it a helluva lot easier to pull it off. I’m not against guns but it’s so weird to me how gun guys can’t just admit that guns make it really easy to… kill people.

 

[MagNoleA]

I wonder if this will be a significant factor if the numbers continue to increase. There’s a large sector of Americans who are aging (Boomers) and as they do these diseases will increase along with a few others.

Paging Dr. Quinn: Medicine Woman.
And next to car accidents, the #1 killer of adolescents.

 

[GeddyLee09]

The research and common sense say having a gun around makes it easier. The research also says, as @BrainVision pointed out that many suicides are impulsive acts. This is like “gun guys” arguing about Mass shootings. No, they aren’t the cause, they just make it a helluva lot easier to pull it off. I’m not against guns but it’s so weird to me how gun guys can’t just admit that guns make it really easy to… kill people.

Of course they do. That's what they are designed to do. Kill people. Here are some interesting stats.

Country Suicide rate per 100k Gun Owners per 100k
Lethoso 72.4 4.8
US 16.1 120.5
Japan 15.3 .3
Sweden 14.7 23.1
S Korea 28.6 .2

I think some of these numbers are slightly outdated but it shows the relationship between the two and that people do commit suicide by other means.

Also, I believe there should and can be a way to reduce these numbers by limiting who owns a gun. Just like driving not everyone should own or carry a gun. I'm all for stricter laws but just blaming a device because its effective isn't the answer.

Suicide Rate by Country 2024

Gun Ownership by Country 2024