UNC - NCAA Delivers Sanctions

[DanC78]

and there are none.

Turns out the key to avoiding sanctions when cheating is to make sure the entire student body also has the same opportunity to cheat.

Wow

http://fanbuzz.com/college-basketball/north-carolina-academic-scandal-ncaa-punishment/

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ons-academics-fraud-case http://es.pn/2ygn3jo

 

[DFSNOLE]

They actively fought the allegations. That may become the blueprint for all institutions moving forward. The NCAA is a joke IMO.

 

[DanC78]

They actively fought the allegations. That may become the blueprint for all institutions moving forward. The NCAA is a joke IMO.

You bet your rear it will be. The loop hole has been found.

I'm truly shocked about this. Not one sanction....UNC must have the best Law School on the planet!

 

[Nolomite]

and there are none.

Turns out the key to avoiding sanctions when cheating is to make sure the entire student body also has the same opportunity to cheat.

Wow

http://fanbuzz.com/college-basketball/north-carolina-academic-scandal-ncaa-punishment/

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ons-academics-fraud-case http://es.pn/2ygn3jo

A joke, sans humor

 

[DFSNOLE]

You bet your rear it will be. The loop hole has been found.

I'm truly shocked about this. Not one sanction....UNC must have the best Law School on the planet!

I may be wrong but I think it was announced there will be no major sanctions. Some minor ones may be yet to come.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

The NCAA dare not dig too deep or punish too severely. Would set a precedent that would result in the organizations implosion.

The feds however seem like they're content to light the match.

Big money amateur athletics is a oxymoron and ought not exist, especially under the purview of institutions whose primary mandate is academics and not sports facility management.

 

[Gonolz]

and there are none.

Turns out the key to avoiding sanctions when cheating is to make sure the entire student body also has the same opportunity to cheat.

Wow

So, what they are saying is that if, say all students had the answers to an online music class test and had a chance to cheat, then there would be no sanctions for football players cheating?

 

[DanC78]

So, what they are saying is that if, say all students had the answers to an online music class test and had a chance to cheat, then there would be no sanctions for football players cheating?

Yes, I believe you are correct.

un.freaking.believable

 

[billanole]

I posted a little while ago on the sports board...
Wow. Just wow.
So, paternoistas get the wins back, the heels with their phantom department get by with no problems, but a school that does the right thing gets truly penalized. Wow.
I suggest all those ball players at UNC who did not really get a viable degree band together and sue the pants off of ole blue.

 

[noleclone2]

So, what they are saying is that if, say all students had the answers to an online music class test and had a chance to cheat, then there would be no sanctions for football players cheating?

It still amazes me how much we suffered for that self reported activity of one rogue TA. I also believe if you looked at institutions afterwards, the NCAA overkill reaction to FSU caused many other big athletic departments to say no to self reporting. And then yes to not cooperating and lawyering up if the NCAA does come a calling. Makes me so mad when I think of them stripping wins from multiple programs and Track title and bowl game streak. Then to see nothing come of so much worse. I wish there was a legal avenue for challenging those stripping of wins based on how they have not enforced or backtracked on penalties since that time.

 

[NoleOne]

FSU better fight to get its vacated wins and championships (including its Track and Field Championship) reinstated with this garbage of a ruling.

I'm dead serious.

This is complete and utter garbage.

At UNC you fifty twenty times the number of athletes involved as FSU, two hundred times the number of classes involved as FSU, and twenty times the number of years involved as FSU.

At UNC, there were entirely fake classes and UNC athletic department employees steering athletes to fake classes to keep them eligible.

And that doesn't even include the academic support system accusations by Mary Willingham.

But UNC gets nothing.

FSU self-reports over athletes getting answers on one online music class over two semesters and gets 4 years probation, scholarship reductions, and vacating victories and championships in multiple sports.

 

[Manch.]

UNC fought that the NCAA had no jurisdiction on how easy or not their classes were. That was a major part in UNC winning this sham.

I wonder how much sneaker money was funneled to the NCAA .

Also, it was determined that those classes weren't "fake", they were real classes, contrary to media reports. Attendance was not required and a paper was due at the end of the semester.

So, it was a real class, and the NCAA has no jurisdiction on how easy UNC sets their courses. Case dismissed.

 

[DanC78]

UNC fought that the NCAA had no jurisdiction on how easy or not their classes were. That was a major part in UNC winning this shame.

I wonder how much sneaker money was funneled to the NCAA .

Also, it was determined that those classes weren't "fake", they were real classes, contrary to media reports. Attendance was not required and a paper was due at the end of the semester.

So, it was a real class, and the NCAA has no jurisdiction on how easy UNC sets their courses. Case dismissed.

Exactly: every school should have classes that are as easy and lax as going to the beach. Matter of fact, they could have a degree in napping. All the courses would be how to sleep in different positions, light, mattresses. Etc.

Why not

 

[Bill From Tampa]

A complete and total travesty. The only solace I guess is UNC reportedly spent $18 million to defend itself. One talking head said the NCAA decision was spot on and done by the book. They need a new book in that case. Every NCAA school should start a bogus program like the one UNC ran for 18 years. The school can run a cash cow course or courses, the athletes can skate by with snap courses, and no worries about running afoul of the NCAA. Its a win win for everyone.

 

[NoleOne]

A complete and total travesty. The only solace I guess is UNC reportedly spent $18 million to defend itself. One talking head said the NCAA decision was spot on and done by the book. They need a new book in that case. Every NCAA school should start a bogus program like the one UNC ran for 18 years. The school can run a cash cow course or courses, the athletes can skate by with snap courses, and no worries about running afoul of the NCAA. Its a win win for everyone.

If it was by the book, then all the other academic fraud cases including FSU were not.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

If it was by the book, then all the other academic fraud cases including FSU were not.

Which makes the suggestion made earlier to have FSU sue the NCAA more interesting of a possibility.

 

[NoleOne]

Agreed.

The FSU matter involved a rogue tutor providing answers to a single online class. FSU's music appreciation class was offered to the general student population. Viewing the facts in the worst possible light for FSU, the music appreciation class was a single sham class taught over two semesters for 61 athletes.

UNC involved hundreds of sham classes for thousands of athletes over 20 years.

FSU should sue the heck out of the NCAA. At the very least, give back all of the vacated wins and championships taken away from FSU's athletic department, especially that track national championship.

 

[GatorTheo]

Agreed.

The FSU matter involved a rogue tutor providing answers to a single online class. FSU's music appreciation class was offered to the general student population. Viewing the facts in the worst possible light for FSU, the music appreciation class was a single sham class taught over two semesters for 61 athletes.

UNC involved hundreds of sham classes for thousands of athletes over 20 years.

FSU should sue the heck out of the NCAA. At the very least, give back all of the vacated wins and championships taken away from FSU's athletic department, especially that track national championship.

Like I tried to explain earlier, the FSU case was not about offering easy classes. The UNC case was.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Like I tried to explain earlier, the FSU case was not about offering easy classes. The UNC case was.

Both were about athletes receiving benefits not available to the general student population. UNC fought and showed that these "classes" were open to anyone. FSU didn't even though more than just athletes had access to the test answers.

 

[GatorTheo]

Both were about athletes receiving benefits not available to the general student population. UNC fought and showed that these "classes" were open to anyone. FSU didn't even though more than just athletes had access to the test answers.

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. Both situations clearly involved regular students in addition to athletes. UNC's was about ridiculously easy classes. FSU's was about answers being provided and papers being written.

 

[runkpanole]

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. Both situations clearly involved regular students in addition to athletes. UNC's was about ridiculously easy classes. FSU's was about answers being provided and papers being written.

So, you are saying an education at UNC is completely worthless and their accreditation body should pay a visit?

 

[GatorTheo]

So, you are saying an education at UNC is completely worthless and their accreditation body should pay a visit?

I'm sure they have plenty of fine programs but any prestige that a UNC degree used to carry is clearly diminished. Any accreditation body would be walking on egg shells if they investigated.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. Both situations clearly involved regular students in addition to athletes. UNC's was about ridiculously easy classes. FSU's was about answers being provided and papers being written.

But just cheating is outside the purview of the NCAA. Their focus is on impermissible and extra benefits.

 

[DukeFan1]

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. Both situations clearly involved regular students in addition to athletes. UNC's was about ridiculously easy classes. FSU's was about answers being provided and papers being written.

No, at Carolina, they offered no-show classes as well as classes where you had to make a token effort to show up occasionally, but in the latter case, papers were written and grades were changed. But most egregious of all, instead of a single "gut class" for an easy grade (which just about every college has within its curriculum), they set up an entire department geared for the scholarship athletes to major in, strictly to maintain their eligibility....

Read up on the details of this investigation and you'll easily come to the conclusion that UNC decided to abandon its academic integrity back in the late 80's/early 90's for a few more wins on the court/field, and the only reason they got away with it is because unlike other "blue bloods" who have been on the receiving end of NCAA penalties (Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana, Louisville, Syracuse), UNC has a strong alumni presence within the upper levels of the NCAA, and they also have a powerful media mouth piece in ESPN (run by John Skipper, UNC Class of 1978) spinning things in their favor. It's basically the same situation as Florida alums (particularly their law school and journalism school grads) using their professional positions to smear FSU at every available opportunity (see the Jameis WInston Witch Hunt), only UNC does it on a national level. So if the Justice Department is looking to expand their investigations beyond the influence of shoe/apparel companies within college athletics, they have a nice big racketeering case staring them right in the face....

 

[Bill From Tampa]

But just cheating is outside the purview of the NCAA. Their focus is on impermissible and extra benefits.

There were reports as I recall that a person in that AA Studies dept did write papers for athletes and grades were changed. That would seem to be cheating.

 

[Manch.]

Gatortheo is 100% cor
rect with his assessment.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Gatortheo is 100% cor
rect with his assessment.

He is correct in the facts of each situation. However, UNC won their case because the NCAA could not prove the athletes received benefits not available to the general student population. The same is true with the case against FSU. If the issue was students cheating on a test, that's for the university to handle through their own code of conduct procedures. The NCAA has no grounds to punish in that case.

 

[billanole]

No, at Carolina, they offered no-show classes as well as classes where you had to make a token effort to show up occasionally, but in the latter case, papers were written and grades were changed. But most egregious of all, instead of a single "gut class" for an easy grade (which just about every college has within its curriculum), they set up an entire department geared for the scholarship athletes to major in, strictly to maintain their eligibility....

Read up on the details of this investigation and you'll easily come to the conclusion that UNC decided to abandon its academic integrity back in the late 80's/early 90's for a few more wins on the court/field, and the only reason they got away with it is because unlike other "blue bloods" who have been on the receiving end of NCAA penalties (Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana, Louisville, Syracuse), UNC has a strong alumni presence within the upper levels of the NCAA, and they also have a powerful media mouth piece in ESPN (run by John Skipper, UNC Class of 1978) spinning things in their favor. It's basically the same situation as Florida alums (particularly their law school and journalism school grads) using their professional positions to smear FSU at every available opportunity (see the Jameis WInston Witch Hunt), only UNC does it on a national level. So if the Justice Department is looking to expand their investigations beyond the influence of shoe/apparel companies within college athletics, they have a nice big racketeering case staring them right in the face....

Nice work, DukeFan1. I am a big fan of your posts over the years.

 

[Manch.]

DFS, I understand that, I don't know how to explain it. UNC won because the NCAA could not prove that the class was fake, and also for athletes only, FSuUs case including cheating, which makes a player academically ineligible, as well as the general student body whom cheated, there's a difference. The NCAA was after UNC for allowing phantom classes for athletes, which was proven not to be, the classes were real, for all students, and the NCAA can't tell a university how hard a class must be. Even though UNC's cour session where easy, they were not fake, we're open to all students, and there was no cheating.

Penn State has a major case, because from the beginning, I never thought the NCAA had any jurisdiction there, but Penn St. blinked and accepted the penalties.

 

[DukeFan1]

DFS, I understand that, I don't know how to explain it. UNC won because the NCAA could not prove that the class was fake, and also for athletes only, FSuUs case including cheating, which makes a player academically ineligible, as well as the general student body whom cheated, there's a difference. The NCAA was after UNC for allowing phantom classes for athletes, which was proven not to be, the classes were real, for all students, and the NCAA can't tell a university how hard a class must be. Even though UNC's cour session where easy, they were not fake, we're open to all students, and there was no cheating.

When you receive passing grades for classes which you never attended, nor did any work in, that's cheating in the truest sense of the word....

Carolina pissed on the NCAA's leg and convinced them it was raining....

 

[gunnyhiway]

Hollywood>NCAA?

 

[Manch.]

When you receive passing grades for classes which you never attended, nor did any work in, that's cheating in the truest sense of the word....

Carolina pissed on the NCAA's leg and convinced them it was raining....

If the course doesn't require attendance, and a paper is handed in at the end of the semester, as required, then it's not cheating. If a paper is not handed in and someone gets a passing grade, then it is cheating.

As much as a piece of cake course it was, there was no cheating.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

If the course doesn't require attendance, and a paper is handed in at the end of the semester, as required, then it's not cheating. If a paper is not handed in and someone gets a passing grade, then it is cheating.

As much as a piece of cake course it was, there was no cheating.

When you have grades changed and papers done by a staffer it is cheating. That is what UNC reportedly do.

 

[RangerNole]

I didn't follow the story once it was reported; but the initial story seemed really bad. The fact that not a single sanction was given tells me something is very odd here. Sadly this seems to be the case with so many things in our country.

 

[kc78]

The entire NCAA has proven to be a sham. It really is reaching a point where it's time for that whole organization to be disbanded.

 

[DukeFan1]

Since UNC is obviously not subject to the same rules as everybody else, I’m expecting several ACC members to look to jump ship to another conference under the excuse of not wanting to compete with somebody who will never be held accountable by the NCAA; they’ll gladly pay the exit fee in an attempt to find a more level playing field (because now that the specter of NCAA sanctions has been removed, UNC will cheat with impunity to win in EVERY sport). So don’t be surprised if Syracuse and Louisville try to join the Big Ten, while FSU and NC State (the Wolfpack have always been on the short end of the Carolina double standard just within the ACC) look to move to the SEC---it has always been expected that football would eventually force the creation of 4 superconferences of 16 teams each, and this capitulation by the NCAA in favor of UNC could be the impetus to start up another round of conference realignment....

 

[RangerNole]

Since UNC is obviously not subject to the same rules as everybody else, I’m expecting several ACC members to look to jump ship to another conference under the excuse of not wanting to compete with somebody who will never be held accountable by the NCAA; they’ll gladly pay the exit fee in an attempt to find a more level playing field (because now that the specter of NCAA sanctions has been removed, UNC will cheat with impunity to win in EVERY sport). So don’t be surprised if Syracuse and Louisville try to join the Big Ten, while FSU and NC State (the Wolfpack have always been on the short end of the Carolina double standard just within the ACC) look to move to the SEC---it has always been expected that football would eventually force the creation of 4 superconferences of 16 teams each, and this capitulation by the NCAA in favor of UNC could be the impetus to start up another round of conference realignment....

Wow you really think this decision has that level of action?

 

[kc78]

Since UNC is obviously not subject to the same rules as everybody else, I’m expecting several ACC members to look to jump ship to another conference under the excuse of not wanting to compete with somebody who will never be held accountable by the NCAA; they’ll gladly pay the exit fee in an attempt to find a more level playing field (because now that the specter of NCAA sanctions has been removed, UNC will cheat with impunity to win in EVERY sport). So don’t be surprised if Syracuse and Louisville try to join the Big Ten, while FSU and NC State (the Wolfpack have always been on the short end of the Carolina double standard just within the ACC) look to move to the SEC---it has always been expected that football would eventually force the creation of 4 superconferences of 16 teams each, and this capitulation by the NCAA in favor of UNC could be the impetus to start up another round of conference realignment....

Yeah, no.

 

[billanole]

Wow you really think this decision has that level of action?

Shoot man, UNC put out freebie degrees for decades. I think the recipients should sue for receiving a subpar education.
Think about the difference in how FSU was treated...and they self reported which was supposedly the right thing to do.
Add to this get out of jail free card the ongoing pay for players gig, and it is easy to see how teams would look for another home.

 

[DukeFan1]

Wow you really think this decision has that level of action?

I really think Syracuse and Louisville are having buyers' remorse about joining the ACC, since they realize there is a blatant double standard with UNC that has hit their beloved basketball programs especially hard....Boeheim at Syracuse is especially PO'ed about how they were treated over the Fab Melo situation, which pales in comparison to what went on in Chapel Hill. Since the Big Ten is a good fit geographically and has deep pockets, I would expect both schools to at least look into the possibility of jumping there if the numbers justify such a move.

FSU leaving for the SEC is more of a pipe dream (plus, the almighty Gators would likely veto it), but NC State is a different situation, since the SEC would like to expand its conference footprint, and they've already taken in another "kid brother" who was abused by an 800-pound gorilla within the same state (see Texas A&M)...