Wal-Mart is the greatest retailer in world history

[MathisJones]

Their stuff is cheap because it's the cheaply made version.

John Deere stopped dealing with WalMart because its own brand was taking a hit. They had to make cheap crap for WalMart that didn't live up to their own standards. So they stopped their relationship.

Think about that when you buy electronics or food or furniture or whatever else you buy there.

As for the editing of books and CDs, I always found it ironic they sell R-rated movies. Picking and choosing their morals apparently.

Anyway, they're usually dirty. Target gives me the same stuff and it's cleaner. And I love going into Best Buys and playing with their displays. They're always better than Walmart.

I did buy a cd there the other day, but only because it was the only place open at the time.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[goldmom]

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:
I have no issues with Walmart but rarely go there anymore. Getting into and out of them is a nightmare - easier to stop at smaller stores or shop online. Costco once a month to load up on paper plates, towels, TP, etc.

I like Costco, but cannot justify frequent visits since the quantity packaging is not really practical for single folks. Where to put the giant four pack of Raisin Bran?

 

[Fijimn]

Originally posted by seminole97:

Originally posted by Fijimn:

Sam Walton discovered, very early on, that most of America lives at the base of Maslow's pyramid and will likely never make enough money to move up...

"Capitalism is essentially a system of mass production for the satisfaction of the needs of the masses. It pours a horn of plenty upon the common man. It has raised the average standard of living to a height never dreamed of in earlier ages. It has made accessible to millions of people enjoyments which a few generations ago were only within the reach of a small elite."

"The consumers suffer when the laws of the country prevent the most efficient entrepreneurs from expanding the sphere of their activities. What made some enterprises develop into big business was precisely their success in filling best the demand of the masses."
-Ludwig von Mises


I like Walmart because they provide those electric carts to the obese, thus reducing their physical output and hastening their end. Can't people at least be thankful for that?

Yes; but is Mises is correct? I would suggest that if he is, we would find more of the populace living at the top of the pyramid (self-actualization); thereby, reducing the market for places such as Wal-Mart and McDonald's.
This post was edited on 4/14 12:19 PM by Fijimn

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by seminole97:
No matter where you choose to shop Walmart helps keep
prices down across the board. Now if they would just open gas stations
up on every corner the oil companies could be held in check...

I never understood the angst about gas prices.
Ever consider how much value there actually is in a gallon of gas? I mean, less than $3 of it can take you 20 or more miles. I know I'd pay a lot, lot more for something that could do what gasoline does. The reason we pay so little for it, compared to what it is worth to us, is because of the competition to sell it. You get a glimpse of what gasoline is worth the moment it becomes hard to find (e.g. after a hurricane).
Various layers of government make more off the sale of oil/gas than the companies who find it, refine it, and put it in convenient locations for me to easily obtain.

Oil companies make huge money because they serve an enormous customer base, not because they have high margins.

It's not the value issue for me, it's the social responsibility issue. It's my opinion that the reason why the economy tanked the way it did some years ago is because gas prices skyrocketed and were held high artificially by the oil companies. They were living high on the hog while the whole country was crumbling around them...

Gas prices at 4+ per gallon for sure and 3+ a gallon still, but to a lesser degree, chew up peoples of less means disposible income. This means no eating out, no going on vacation, no new clothes, only the essentials at home, etc, etc.

Compared to the average American I wasn't (am not) impacted as much but I'm still impacted and it affects what we can and cannot do to a pretty good degree.

So my math and basis for this arguement goes like this...

The wife (no pics) and I fill up our tanks once a week and the daughter (no pics) fills her's up every other week. For round figures I'll use 15 gallons per fillup. This is a very conservative amount too.

So I'll figure 150 gallons per month at 2 per gallon is 300 dollars. Obviously at 4 per gallon that's 600 per month. That extra 300 per month is basically like a deduction out of your paycheck. Will the 3,600 extra per year break my bank? No, but it will other families who make less than we do. And will I spend like I did before though, when gas was 1.50 - 2 bucks a gallon? Hell no. The oil companies have effectively taken that 3,600 annual figure per household out of other areas of the economy and put it on their bottom lines. That is my angst about gas prices.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Originally posted by goldmom:

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:
I have no issues with Walmart but rarely go there anymore. Getting into and out of them is a nightmare - easier to stop at smaller stores or shop online. Costco once a month to load up on paper plates, towels, TP, etc.

I like Costco, but cannot justify frequent visits since the quantity packaging is not really practical for single folks. Where to put the giant four pack of Raisin Bran?

We rarely buy food there for that reason. Just household items.

 

[travnole]

Who the hell is still buying paper books and cd's ?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[seminole97]

It's not the value issue for me, it's the social
responsibility issue. It's my opinion that the reason why the economy
tanked the way it did some years ago is because gas prices skyrocketed
and were held high artificially by the oil companies. They were living
high on the hog while the whole country was crumbling around them...

You mistakenly blame the oil companies for a monetary phenomena that they have no control over.
When newly printed money is flooded into the economy there is no controlling where it ultimately goes. You may lend it to build houses, and bid the prices of houses up thereby. Since lots of people own houses they may view price increases as 'good' inflation, but the new money isn't done distorting prices yet. It may go into speculation on Wall Street (especially when the Federal Reserve kills the conservative finance base of the economy with zero interest rates), and lead to rips in the price of all kinds of goods the central planners never intended. When the price of gas goes up the guys selling it are happy, but everyone else sees this as 'bad inflation'.

"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security but [also] at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.

Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become "profiteers," who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.

Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."

-John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace

Gas
prices at 4+ per gallon for sure and 3+ a gallon still, but to a lesser
degree, chew up peoples of less means disposible income. This means no
eating out, no going on vacation, no new clothes, only the essentials
at home, etc, etc.

I understand that if gasoline cost you less you would have more money for other things, I've simply pointed out that gas is worth a lot more to you than you currently pay, and the reason for that is the competition in selling it. The margins in the oil business suck, but like Walmart they make up for it with volume.
People also change behavior in response to prices. They economize trips, reduce wasteful behaviors (especially when they can't afford them), and even compensate over time with getting more efficient vehicles.

Look at the behavior changes since the gas price went over 2 bucks a gallon:

 

[TexSkills]

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:

Originally posted by goldmom:

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:
I have no issues with Walmart but rarely go there anymore. Getting into and out of them is a nightmare - easier to stop at smaller stores or shop online. Costco once a month to load up on paper plates, towels, TP, etc.

I like Costco, but cannot justify frequent visits since the quantity packaging is not really practical for single folks. Where to put the giant four pack of Raisin Bran?

We rarely buy food there for that reason. Just household items.

Most of what we buy at Costco or BJs are household items like paper towels, toilet paper, detergent, diapers, baby wipes, bottled water, etc but we do buy stuff like pork chops and ground beef there because it's so much cheaper than the regular grocery store. We just portion it out when we get home and stick it in the freezer. We buy the majority of our wine at Costco or BJs because of the price point per bottle.

When my daughter was still on formula we always bought it at Costco or BJs because it was a hell of a lot cheaper than anywhere else.

 

[cfbfan23]

Originally posted by goldmom:

Where to put the giant four pack of Raisin Bran?

In your colon.....over time. Just gotta make sure you love Raisin Bran.


Costco's not always ideal for a single person (36 eggs in a pack) but if you have a decent pantry and/or supply closet as well as a separate freezer, it can become a more frequent destination. Psychologically, I prefer spending $200/week there rather than $800/month. Costco is the only store I don't mind shopping at (aside from fishing/golfing/outdoor type stores).

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by seminole97:

You mistakenly blame the oil companies for a monetary phenomena that they have no control over.

So the oil companies have no control over what they charge for their product? I don't want to get into because we'll never agree and you'll never convince me otherwise.

Originally posted by seminole97:

The margins in the oil business suck, but like Walmart they make up for it with volume.

This is simply not true. Their margin is around 6.5% from '06 - '10 per Forbes. While it's not great compared to other industries it's better than many others (like the business I'm in) and it's pretty damn hefty when you consider what they are calculating the margin on.

Oil companies are a monopoly and are in collusion plain and simple. They can charge whatever they want and justify it by any means they see fit. To see this any other way is having your head burried in the sand...

 

[seminole97]

So the oil companies have no control over what they
charge for their product? I don't want to get into because we'll never
agree and you'll never convince me otherwise.

It's not that they have 'no control', they could refuse to sell, and you could refuse to buy. I doubt either of you will find that in your interests, so you exchange at a price you both agree benefits both of you, or otherwise it doesn't take place. You both have 'control'.

They wish you'd pay more, you wish they'd charge less, but they can't 'make' you pay more than you think it is worth.

Funny thing is, I don't need to convince you - reality exists independent of your ability to perceive or confirm it.

You seem to be upset they get a price closer to what the product is worth to you than what they could provide it at and still profit, but I've simply tried to point out to you the reason you're not paying even closer to what gas is actually worth to you is because of competition you don't perceive.

They can charge whatever they want and justify it by any means they see
fit. To see this any other way is having your head burried in the
sand...

I don't mean to blow up a stupid statement with simple question, but here goes: If they charge $1000 a gallon how many are you buying?
I mean, they just have to "want" that price and its theirs, right? What are they waiting for?
If you took your head out of the sand Mr. You'll Never Convince Me Otherwise, you might learn a few more things in life before shuffling off. You definitely don't have it all figured out just yet.

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by seminole97:
So the oil companies have no control over what they
charge for their product? I don't want to get into because we'll never
agree and you'll never convince me otherwise.

It's not that they have 'no control', they could refuse to sell, and you could refuse to buy. I doubt either of you will find that in your interests, so you exchange at a price you both agree benefits both of you, or otherwise it doesn't take place. You both have 'control'.

They wish you'd pay more, you wish they'd charge less, but they can't 'make' you pay more than you think it is worth.

Funny thing is, I don't need to convince you - reality exists independent of your ability to perceive or confirm it.

You seem to be upset they get a price closer to what the product is worth to you than what they could provide it at and still profit, but I've simply tried to point out to you the reason you're not paying even closer to what gas is actually worth to you is because of competition you don't perceive.

They can charge whatever they want and justify it by any means they see
fit. To see this any other way is having your head burried in the
sand...

I don't mean to blow up a stupid statement with simple question, but here goes: If they charge $1000 a gallon how many are you buying?
I mean, they just have to "want" that price and its theirs, right? What are they waiting for?
If you took your head out of the sand Mr. You'll Never Convince Me Otherwise, you might learn a few more things in life before shuffling off. You definitely don't have it all figured out just yet.

 

[cmanole]

Here's the difference spelled out another way...

We have to have a place to live. We can live in a small house for less than we can live in a big house. Our choice.
We have to have to eat. We can buy chicken for less than we can buy steak. Our choice.
We have to have a car. We can drive an old paid off car for less than can drive a new car. Our choice.
We have to buy gas. We can only buy what the big three provide at the price they provide if for. Not our choice. There is no free market.

If you think paying 2.35 and Exxon or 2.34 at Shell or 2.33 at Mobil or 2.23 and Murphy Oil is a free market then you need to go back to school. It the absolute definition of collusion and criminal...


This post was edited on 4/14 3:49 PM by cmanole

 

[Seminiferous]

Those who've commented in this thread on the size and number of Wal-Marts have estimated comically low. Wal-Mart is an international behemoth. To put this in perspective, think of how thinly staffed a Wal-Mart is, especially when you're trying to get some sales assistance. Even with their sparse personnel, they're the largest private employer in the world.

 

[tolkien1]

I had my 20 year streak of not shopping at WM broken with a $6 purchase last year. It still bugs me. I understand folks who have no other choice or can only afford to shop there due to price concerns. But, I think WM contributes to the over consuming,sprawl-inducing, independent business killing movement in America we've seen for decades. Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[seminole97]

We have to have a place to live. We can live in a small house for less than we can live in a big house. Our choice.

How many home builders in the area you want to live? Is it a 'monopoly' because you can only find a handful, and they charge similar prices to build a similar size house in a similar area - or are the similar prices actually indicative of the fact it is a competitive market, and that differences in price must be justified to the buyer or the competitor gets the business? Or is it criminal collusion?


We have to have to eat. We can buy chicken for less than we can buy steak. Our choice.

Do you find that chicken prices vary drastically between sources, or do you think the chicken sellers are colluding on price too?


We have to have a car. We can drive an old paid off car for less than can drive a new car. Our choice.

But there are only a handful of car producers. Does this mean there is no 'free market' in cars?


We
have to buy gas.

You choose to buy gas because you enjoy the benefits it provides. I understand doing so, I do so too. Gasoline is amazing! As we've agreed, it is worth much more than we actually have to pay for it. It's hard for me to think of something else I'd gladly pay several times the going rate for. The fact we pay so much less than gasoline is worth to us is clue enough for some people that competition is driving down prices.


We can only buy what the big three provide at the
price they provide if for. Not our choice. There is no free market.
If
you think paying 2.35 and Exxon or 2.34 at Shell or 2.33 at Mobil or
2.23 and Murphy Oil is a free market then you need to go back to
school. It the absolute definition of collusion and criminal...

Without getting into the myriad of regulations these companies deal with that makes any interaction they have outside of a genuine free market, what matters is that producers are generally free to set their prices, and whether you're free (by free I mean absent outside coercion, not free as in beer) to accept them or refuse them. If your case is like mine the opportunity costs of not having gasoline outweigh the price of gasoline, and you readily buy it at $2, $3 or even $4/gal. Just because you really, really want it doesn't mean it isn't a free market.

The way to determine if supply and demand is influencing prices is to pay attention to the stock. Markets clear. If a good is priced too high by the seller it will build inventory as consumers refuse to purchase it. Because storage isn't unlimited, and because revenue is required to fund operations, most producers are looking to sell all the time, and if inventories rise they reduce prices so they can sell product.
The only situation that worries me is a politician coercing gas suppliers to set their prices irrespective of supply and demand. Instead citing 'fairness' or some other bogus subjective measure outside the competing interests of the individuals making the exchange. The last time that happened I couldn't buy gas at any price because the damn tanks were run dry.
When ignorance and envy at the wealth earned by oil companies leads to price controls that result in me not being able to obtain gasoline at any price - THAT get's me furious. It's sad I've had to experience it in this country instead of just read about it in banana republics.

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by seminole97:
We have to have a place to live. We can live in a small house for less than we can live in a big house. Our choice.

How many home builders in the area you want to live? Is it a 'monopoly' because you can only find a handful, and they charge similar prices to build a similar size house in a similar area - or are the similar prices actually indicative of the fact it is a competitive market, and that differences in price must be justified to the buyer or the competitor gets the business? Or is it criminal collusion?


We have to have to eat. We can buy chicken for less than we can buy steak. Our choice.

Do you find that chicken prices vary drastically between sources, or do you think the chicken sellers are colluding on price too?


We have to have a car. We can drive an old paid off car for less than can drive a new car. Our choice.

But there are only a handful of car producers. Does this mean there is no 'free market' in cars?


We
have to buy gas.

You choose to buy gas because you enjoy the benefits it provides. I understand doing so, I do so too. Gasoline is amazing! As we've agreed, it is worth much more than we actually have to pay for it. It's hard for me to think of something else I'd gladly pay several times the going rate for. The fact we pay so much less than gasoline is worth to us is clue enough for some people that competition is driving down prices.


We can only buy what the big three provide at the
price they provide if for. Not our choice. There is no free market.
If
you think paying 2.35 and Exxon or 2.34 at Shell or 2.33 at Mobil or
2.23 and Murphy Oil is a free market then you need to go back to
school. It the absolute definition of collusion and criminal...

Without getting into the myriad of regulations these companies deal with that makes any interaction they have outside of a genuine free market, what matters is that producers are generally free to set their prices, and whether you're free (by free I mean absent outside coercion, not free as in beer) to accept them or refuse them. If your case is like mine the opportunity costs of not having gasoline outweigh the price of gasoline, and you readily buy it at $2, $3 or even $4/gal. Just because you really, really want it doesn't mean it isn't a free market.

The way to determine if supply and demand is influencing prices is to pay attention to the stock. Markets clear. If a good is priced too high by the seller it will build inventory as consumers refuse to purchase it. Because storage isn't unlimited, and because revenue is required to fund operations, most producers are looking to sell all the time, and if inventories rise they reduce prices so they can sell product.
The only situation that worries me is a politician coercing gas suppliers to set their prices irrespective of supply and demand. Instead citing 'fairness' or some other bogus subjective measure outside the competing interests of the individuals making the exchange. The last time that happened I couldn't buy gas at any price because the damn tanks were run dry.
When ignorance and envy at the wealth earned by oil companies leads to price controls that result in me not being able to obtain gasoline at any price - THAT get's me furious. It's sad I've had to experience it in this country instead of just read about it in banana republics.

This is great fodder for the classroom. Real world not so much. And you're trying to tell me the stock prices of these oil giants have anything to do with supply and demand. Really?

Here's a hypothetical. A storm is brewing in the Atlantic basin and has a 20% chance of entering the Gulf and damaging the refineries in Texas. Are you telling me all of these companies have the same exact set of risk criteria and all of their selling prices will ulitimately be within a few cents of each other? Are you telling me that their debt structure, capital reserves and such are all so similar that the ultimate price at the pump is negligable?

You can try to rationalize this anyway you want but I'm not buying. These compainies are making billions and billions of dollars of profit a year EACH and yet the price at the pump is all the same? Something doesn't add up...

And yes, you have to buy gas unless you want to live next to work and never go anywhere. It's a good arguement in the classroom and in the LR but not so much in the real world...

 

[Gonolz]

Wal-Mart is amazing. You can you get practically anything for a great price. The added bonus is the people watching. It is like going to a people zoo. You get to see all kinds of strange beasts and for free. Whenever you are feeling down about your life, go to a Wal-Mart. You will come out feeling wonderful about your life and saying ... "at least I don't live like those people".

 

[goldmom]

See, GoNolz gets it. WalMart is the world's best place to visit if your self esteem is in need of a boost.

Walk amongst the regular patrons and soon you're patting yourself on the back, because you know for a fact you bathed and brushed your teeth that morning. You are quite sure you'd never leave your house wearing a top that causes your ginormous muffin top to hang out, while pretending that's what muffin tops do.

I know I feel smarter, richer, and far more attractive as I drive out of the parking lot.

 

[West Duval Nole]

Anytime you don't want to visit in person go check out peopleofwalmart.com. It is quite entertaining as well.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[seminole97]

This is great fodder for the classroom. Real world not
so much.

The real world is a classroom too if you pay enough attention.

And you're trying to tell me the stock prices of these oil
giants have anything to do with supply and demand. Really?

By stock I meant stockpiles. People that are spending their day trading oil are watching to see if inventories are building or draining.
If the good doesn't move off the shelf (or in this case out of the tank in the ground) the price is probably too high. If the price the market will bear doesn't cover the cost to make the good producers will quit making the good (this is why capitalism is a profit and loss system, and doesn't work well when the government tries to eliminate losses for the favored).
If the good can't stay stocked on the shelf, the price is too low (e.g. when politicians come out after a hurricane and start jawing about 'gouging' - it's after that you have to count on luck instead of the market to find a gallon of gas...)

Back to the real world: When the original Wii came out Nintendo put a much lower price point on the system than their competitors. They were a major pain to find on store shelves. You could find people reselling them for the actual market price on sites like Ebay.
Fast foward to the PS3 launch. Piles of them in pyramids at stores because Sony was wrong, people weren't willing to take a second job to buy a PS3 like their CEO joked at an expo.
Some folks thought it was worthwhile at that price, but Sony misjudged the market, and had to adjust their prices to move their inventory.

Here's
a hypothetical. A storm is brewing in the Atlantic basin and has a 20%
chance of entering the Gulf and damaging the refineries in Texas. Are
you telling me all of these companies have the same exact set of risk
criteria and all of their selling prices will ulitimately be within a
few cents of each other? Are you telling me that their debt structure,
capital reserves and such are all so similar that the ultimate price at
the pump is negligable?

The price will be within a few cents of each other because they're in competition. Many folks will take the station on the other side of the intersection (or town!) that is a few cents cheaper.
I'd love to sell my used car for 30k, but I know there are people selling the same make and model for closer to half that. What price do you think I'm going to select if I want to sell my car instead of look at it with a for sale sign on it? Am I 'colluding' with the other people selling at the price people are paying, or am I competing?

You can try to rationalize this anyway
you want but I'm not buying.

Is my price too high?

These compainies are making billions and
billions of dollars of profit a year EACH and yet the price at the pump
is all the same? Something doesn't add up...

Just your understanding, but ignorance is curable with information and consideration.
They make 'billions and billions' because they sell literally 'billions and billions' of barrels of oil to literally billions of people. You don't seem to appreciate the scale these companies are operating at. Billions sounds like a lot, but as we've discussed they're not collecting from you nearly what you already think gasoline is worth.

And yes, you have
to buy gas unless you want to live next to work and never go anywhere.
It's a good arguement in the classroom and in the LR but not so much in
the real world...

It is a lifestyle choice (choosing where to live and work, whether to use mass transit, etc.), as I mentioned we've both looked at the opportunity costs of not having gasoline and both made the decision it is certainly worth what we pay. You're just mad that you're not getting a better deal than you already are. Whereas I realize I'd pay several times the amount I do for gasoline (I'd use less, but I'd still buy some), so the going rate doesn't bother me.

 

[Nole Lou]

We lived in what had to be probably the most Walmart-free major suburban area for years...you could make a special trip to one, but there were none convenient enough to even consider for regular shopping or a quick stop. They were trying to put one in for probably 10-15 years, but the residents of the area fought them at every turn, including my wife. It actually kind of irritated me for those times when they fit the bill, that it wasn't a convenient option, but the parking and crowds are always so unbearable, I didn't really care.

About a year ago Walmart finally won and built one close by. And for the most part, a year in, nobody is going. You can roll up any time of day and park within 6-7 spots of one of the front doors. Never any line at the register. It's hilarious, it always makes me think of the opening scene of Vanilla Sky where he's in an empty Times Square. I don't know how long it will last, but it's crazy and super convenient when I have to go, and you get in and out of a brand new clean Walmart as quickly as you can CVS. I always wonder what it's like in Arkansas when they're looking at the sales numbers for that location and scratching their heads, or to be the district manager stuck with that store. The residents are just not going, and are still packing the Target across the street.

I don't love Wal Mart, but I don't hate it. I think for the most part, the prices just aren't worth the hassle of the experience (except the new one near me). However, I do think it's a good spot for cheap stuff, because their selection of things like cheapish sporting goods and kitchen ware (think a fishing pole for the kids or a new spatula or grill tongs) is way better than Target.

 

[rhurner]

Originally posted by Nole Lou:
We lived in what had to be probably the most Walmart-free major suburban area for years...you could make a special trip to one, but there were none convenient enough to even consider for regular shopping or a quick stop. They were trying to put one in for probably 10-15 years, but the residents of the area fought them at every turn, including my wife. It actually kind of irritated me for those times when they fit the bill, that it wasn't a convenient option, but the parking and crowds are always so unbearable, I didn't really care.

About a year ago Walmart finally won and built one close by. And for the most part, a year in, nobody is going. You can roll up any time of day and park within 6-7 spots of one of the front doors. Never any line at the register. It's hilarious, it always makes me think of the opening scene of Vanilla Sky where he's in an empty Times Square. I don't know how long it will last, but it's crazy and super convenient when I have to go, and you get in and out of a brand new clean Walmart as quickly as you can CVS. I always wonder what it's like in Arkansas when they're looking at the sales numbers for that location and scratching their heads, or to be the district manager stuck with that store. The residents are just not going, and are still packing the Target across the street.

I don't love Wal Mart, but I don't hate it. I think for the most part, the prices just aren't worth the hassle of the experience (except the new one near me). However, I do think it's a good spot for cheap stuff, because their selection of things like cheapish sporting goods and kitchen ware (think a fishing pole for the kids or a new spatula or grill tongs) is way better than Target.

That's actually kind of funny. And now for the Hurnerhyjack. An old pal constantly posts those "raise the minimum wage" messages on FB. I am tempted to reply (but don't as he'll never change) that poorly qualified people will always work somewhere for low wage and whether that wage is $1 or $100 an hour it's all relative. "Pay McEdees people $15!!!!!!" Oh sure...that's fine......then the $45,000 per year teacher gets $90k and so on and so forth. The world needs ditch diggers and they'll get nothing and like it.

 

[DefNotPanHandler2007]

Originally posted by goldmom:
See, GoNolz gets it. WalMart is the world's best place to visit if your self esteem is in need of a boost.

Walk amongst the regular patrons and soon you're patting yourself on the back, because you know for a fact you bathed and brushed your teeth that morning. You are quite sure you'd never leave your house wearing a top that causes your ginormous muffin top to hang out, while pretending that's what muffin tops do.

I know I feel smarter, richer, and far more attractive as I drive out of the parking lot.

Exactly why I frequent the LR.

 

[cfbfan23]

Originally posted by seminole97:
This is great fodder for the classroom. Real world not
so much.

The real world is a classroom too if you pay enough attention.

And you're trying to tell me the stock prices of these oil
giants have anything to do with supply and demand. Really?

By stock I meant stockpiles. People that are spending their day trading oil are watching to see if inventories are building or draining.
If the good doesn't move off the shelf (or in this case out of the tank in the ground) the price is probably too high. If the price the market will bear doesn't cover the cost to make the good producers will quit making the good (this is why capitalism is a profit and loss system, and doesn't work well when the government tries to eliminate losses for the favored).
If the good can't stay stocked on the shelf, the price is too low (e.g. when politicians come out after a hurricane and start jawing about 'gouging' - it's after that you have to count on luck instead of the market to find a gallon of gas...)

Back to the real world: When the original Wii came out Nintendo put a much lower price point on the system than their competitors. They were a major pain to find on store shelves. You could find people reselling them for the actual market price on sites like Ebay.
Fast foward to the PS3 launch. Piles of them in pyramids at stores because Sony was wrong, people weren't willing to take a second job to buy a PS3 like their CEO joked at an expo.
Some folks thought it was worthwhile at that price, but Sony misjudged the market, and had to adjust their prices to move their inventory.

Here's
a hypothetical. A storm is brewing in the Atlantic basin and has a 20%
chance of entering the Gulf and damaging the refineries in Texas. Are
you telling me all of these companies have the same exact set of risk
criteria and all of their selling prices will ulitimately be within a
few cents of each other? Are you telling me that their debt structure,
capital reserves and such are all so similar that the ultimate price at
the pump is negligable?

The price will be within a few cents of each other because they're in competition. Many folks will take the station on the other side of the intersection (or town!) that is a few cents cheaper.
I'd love to sell my used car for 30k, but I know there are people selling the same make and model for closer to half that. What price do you think I'm going to select if I want to sell my car instead of look at it with a for sale sign on it? Am I 'colluding' with the other people selling at the price people are paying, or am I competing?

You can try to rationalize this anyway
you want but I'm not buying.

Is my price too high?

These compainies are making billions and
billions of dollars of profit a year EACH and yet the price at the pump
is all the same? Something doesn't add up...

Just your understanding, but ignorance is curable with information and consideration.
They make 'billions and billions' because they sell literally 'billions and billions' of barrels of oil to literally billions of people. You don't seem to appreciate the scale these companies are operating at. Billions sounds like a lot, but as we've discussed they're not collecting from you nearly what you already think gasoline is worth.

And yes, you have
to buy gas unless you want to live next to work and never go anywhere.
It's a good arguement in the classroom and in the LR but not so much in
the real world...

It is a lifestyle choice (choosing where to live and work, whether to use mass transit, etc.), as I mentioned we've both looked at the opportunity costs of not having gasoline and both made the decision it is certainly worth what we pay. You're just mad that you're not getting a better deal than you already are. Whereas I realize I'd pay several times the amount I do for gasoline (I'd use less, but I'd still buy some), so the going rate doesn't bother me.

You're bringing in too much logic into this argument.

 

[rhurner]

Originally posted by DefNotPanHandler2007:

Originally posted by goldmom:
See, GoNolz gets it. WalMart is the world's best place to visit if your self esteem is in need of a boost.

Walk amongst the regular patrons and soon you're patting yourself on the back, because you know for a fact you bathed and brushed your teeth that morning. You are quite sure you'd never leave your house wearing a top that causes your ginormous muffin top to hang out, while pretending that's what muffin tops do.

I know I feel smarter, richer, and far more attractive as I drive out of the parking lot.

Exactly why I frequent the LR.

Yep...I for one KNOW that I'm better than ...........somebody. So while I say that I detest those people. I loathe their very existence. I want those people, I NEED those people around me. Because at the end of the day I'm insecure and need reassurance that I'm worth a crap. Will you be that person defnotpan? Will you goldmom? Huh? How bout you Lt. Weinberg? Will you stand a post at Wallyworld?? ?

This post was edited on 4/16 10:43 AM by rhurner

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by cfbfan23:

Originally posted by seminole97:
This is great fodder for the classroom. Real world not
so much.

The real world is a classroom too if you pay enough attention.

And you're trying to tell me the stock prices of these oil
giants have anything to do with supply and demand. Really?

By stock I meant stockpiles. People that are spending their day trading oil are watching to see if inventories are building or draining.
If the good doesn't move off the shelf (or in this case out of the tank in the ground) the price is probably too high. If the price the market will bear doesn't cover the cost to make the good producers will quit making the good (this is why capitalism is a profit and loss system, and doesn't work well when the government tries to eliminate losses for the favored).
If the good can't stay stocked on the shelf, the price is too low (e.g. when politicians come out after a hurricane and start jawing about 'gouging' - it's after that you have to count on luck instead of the market to find a gallon of gas...)

Back to the real world: When the original Wii came out Nintendo put a much lower price point on the system than their competitors. They were a major pain to find on store shelves. You could find people reselling them for the actual market price on sites like Ebay.
Fast foward to the PS3 launch. Piles of them in pyramids at stores because Sony was wrong, people weren't willing to take a second job to buy a PS3 like their CEO joked at an expo.
Some folks thought it was worthwhile at that price, but Sony misjudged the market, and had to adjust their prices to move their inventory.

Here's
a hypothetical. A storm is brewing in the Atlantic basin and has a 20%
chance of entering the Gulf and damaging the refineries in Texas. Are
you telling me all of these companies have the same exact set of risk
criteria and all of their selling prices will ulitimately be within a
few cents of each other? Are you telling me that their debt structure,
capital reserves and such are all so similar that the ultimate price at
the pump is negligable?

The price will be within a few cents of each other because they're in competition. Many folks will take the station on the other side of the intersection (or town!) that is a few cents cheaper.
I'd love to sell my used car for 30k, but I know there are people selling the same make and model for closer to half that. What price do you think I'm going to select if I want to sell my car instead of look at it with a for sale sign on it? Am I 'colluding' with the other people selling at the price people are paying, or am I competing?

You can try to rationalize this anyway
you want but I'm not buying.

Is my price too high?

These compainies are making billions and
billions of dollars of profit a year EACH and yet the price at the pump
is all the same? Something doesn't add up...

Just your understanding, but ignorance is curable with information and consideration.
They make 'billions and billions' because they sell literally 'billions and billions' of barrels of oil to literally billions of people. You don't seem to appreciate the scale these companies are operating at. Billions sounds like a lot, but as we've discussed they're not collecting from you nearly what you already think gasoline is worth.

And yes, you have
to buy gas unless you want to live next to work and never go anywhere.
It's a good arguement in the classroom and in the LR but not so much in
the real world...

It is a lifestyle choice (choosing where to live and work, whether to use mass transit, etc.), as I mentioned we've both looked at the opportunity costs of not having gasoline and both made the decision it is certainly worth what we pay. You're just mad that you're not getting a better deal than you already are. Whereas I realize I'd pay several times the amount I do for gasoline (I'd use less, but I'd still buy some), so the going rate doesn't bother me.

You're bringing in too much logic into this argument.

This is not the case. I brought up two very valid counterpoints to his claims that he danced around...

First the collusion aspect of the big three. He says it's because they are in competition. Walmart and Publix are in competition. You can buy the same exact thing at Walmart as you can at Publix and they are not ALWAYS within a cent or two of each other...

Second, first he said that they operated on razor thin margins then I said the margins were in the 7.5% range which is not razor thin. The I said they made billions and that was because I don't understand. I deal with a billion dollar budget everyday. I think I understand...

The deal is we have different opinions as to what is in play here. Clearly you two are wrong!

 

[goldmom]

Originally posted by rhurner:

Originally posted by DefNotPanHandler2007:

Originally posted by goldmom:
See, GoNolz gets it. WalMart is the world's best place to visit if your self esteem is in need of a boost.

Walk amongst the regular patrons and soon you're patting yourself on the back, because you know for a fact you bathed and brushed your teeth that morning. You are quite sure you'd never leave your house wearing a top that causes your ginormous muffin top to hang out, while pretending that's what muffin tops do.

I know I feel smarter, richer, and far more attractive as I drive out of the parking lot.

Exactly why I frequent the LR.

Yep...I for one KNOW that I'm better than ...........somebody. So while I say that I detest those people. I loathe their very existence. I want those people, I NEED those people around me. Because at the end of the day I'm insecure and need reassurance that I'm worth a crap. Will you be that person defnotpan? Will you goldmom? Huh? How bout you Lt. Weinberg? Will you stand a post at Wallyworld?? ?


This post was edited on 4/16 10:43 AM by rhurner

Hurner, put down the pipe. Observe the winkage and ease up. Can't an old lady have fun?

 

[seminole97]

First the collusion aspect of the big three. He says
it's because they are in competition. Walmart and Publix are in
competition. You can buy the same exact thing at Walmart as you can at
Publix and they are not ALWAYS within a cent or two of each other...

Price isn't the only point on which companies compete in the marketplace.
I think you'll find few people that equate the 'shopping experience' at Publix with Walmart.
Ever ask someone for help at each place?
Some of what goes into providing the preferred 'experience' at Publix you will find reflected in their prices.
I'd be hard pressed to find many differences between pumping my own gas at a Shell or Exxon station.

Second,
first he said that they operated on razor thin margins then I said the
margins were in the 7.5% range which is not razor thin.
The I said they
made billions and that was because I don't understand. I deal with a
billion dollar budget everyday. I think I understand...

As an industry their profit margins are firmly middle of pack, but that's lately, on the back of this historical price spike we saw. Historically, you're looking below average.
Coca Cola has closer to 20% margins. They just don't sell billions of barrels of Coke to billions of people, so they don't make as much money even though they have a better margin.
I'm not sure why you can't grasp the scale these companies are working on, but it's clear you haven't.

The deal is we have different opinions as to what is in play here.

I think we can get to the root of it with one questions:
Why do you think you pay less for gasoline than gasoline is worth to you?

 

[fsufantoo]

All I know is that Old Man Walton is spinning in his grave so hard that you could power a small city.

The Wal-Mart he created is long gone and just feeds the bottom line of his kids stock options.

I saw an interview with him way back in the 70's and he was walking thru a shipping area and truckers and others working the warehouse were hugging and praising him... many were "paper millionaires" with their profit sharing and benefits that they used to offer. He was proud and just giddy that so many who were working for the company were living the American dream. Employees were happy, most of his merchandise was American made. He would visit stores and walk the floor shaking hands of customers and workers alike.

Look at it today. 40 registers and maybe 3 opened. Employees jacking around, filing their nails. No one to help, stock missing from shelves.

Hell, I consider it a huge victory if I find a shopping cart that has working wheels.

The company is a disgrace. The small town guy who had a shop and provided goods and services is plowed under when Wal-Mart comes to town. You can't buy a few screws or bolts to fit your job, now you have to buy a box or bag of them (made in China or Taiwan) and there is no one to talk you thru the repair process like the small shop owner used to do.

 

[Seminiferous]

Yeah, just look at it today. The largest private employer in world history, the most successful retailer in world history, where it elects to locate causes county and town demographics to shift, where it goes positively dictates where other retailers will follow…

Just look at it.

 

[squiffynole]

I used my MapMyWalk app during a trip to Wal-Mart, ended up with 0.75 miles.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Originally posted by fsufantoo:
All I know is that Old Man Walton is spinning in his grave so hard that you could power a small city.

The Wal-Mart he created is long gone and just feeds the bottom line of his kids stock options.

I saw an interview with him way back in the 70's and he was walking thru a shipping area and truckers and others working the warehouse were hugging and praising him... many were "paper millionaires" with their profit sharing and benefits that they used to offer. He was proud and just giddy that so many who were working for the company were living the American dream. Employees were happy, most of his merchandise was American made. He would visit stores and walk the floor shaking hands of customers and workers alike.

Look at it today. 40 registers and maybe 3 opened. Employees jacking around, filing their nails. No one to help, stock missing from shelves.

Hell, I consider it a huge victory if I find a shopping cart that has working wheels.

The company is a disgrace. The small town guy who had a shop and provided goods and services is plowed under when Wal-Mart comes to town. You can't buy a few screws or bolts to fit your job, now you have to buy a box or bag of them (made in China or Taiwan) and there is no one to talk you thru the repair process like the small shop owner used to do.

You can still get close to that same shopping experience, just need to go to Europe to do so. But really, it's a complete pain in the ass to have to go to specialty shops for every little thing. There are Monoprixs and Carrefours and other larger chains but even those places have very limited selections of goods compared to the US.

I do agree with you that Walmarts these days leave something to be desired in terms of the customer service experience.

 

[cfbfan23]

Originally posted by cmanole:

This is not the case. I brought up two very valid counterpoints to his claims that he danced around...

In your opinion.

 

[seminole97]

Originally posted by Seminiferous:
Yeah, just look at it today. The largest private employer in world history, the most successful retailer in world history, where it elects to locate causes county and town demographics to shift, where it goes positively dictates where other retailers will follow…

Just look at it.

The buyers do the dictating. To the mom & pop as readily as the A & P, or the Walmart...

But nobody wants to blame people who are making individual choices in their own view of their own best interest. It's easier to point the finger at a particular instance of the aggregates of those decisions and somehow percieve that the result is the cause.

Walmart is a goods distribution model. Just the latest in a line going back thousands of years. There's no reason
to think it is immortal. If they had Instagram at the time I'm sure you could find pictures of buttcracks in the bazaar.
I'm not betting it will be replaced by Amazon
Prime drones tomorrow, but I'm content leaving the goods and services
providing sector of the world as free to evolve as we can as long as it
is done so absent fraud and coercion.

 

[JLSJOHN03J]

Costco Without a doubt is the best place to shop. I don't care if you have to buy a lot of stuff there.

Their Olive Oil was scientifically tested to be the ONLY one that actually meets the "Extra Virgin" Standards. UC Davis was the school. To get Olive Oil REMOTELY close in terms of quality you have to spend 5x as much.

Kirkland Signature til the day I die.

 

[fsunole025]

Originally posted by West Duval Nole:
Can Amazon ever surpass them if they get their drone program working to allow for same day delivery? Can you imagine ordering something online and it being at your address from a drone in 30 minutes?

Meanwhile, FedEx is shipping their pants with Amazon and Uber getting in the logistics business.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[MIKE_G]

I don't really have anything against Walmart. I don't like the stores in general because they are big and messy and not very organized. I lived near a Target store so that was convenient. There's a Walmart nearer to where I live now, but I have only been a couple times in the year and a half I've lived in Decatur. They're building a new Walmart grocery store shopping center right down the street from me. Lots of people were not happy, but I'm excited for the new stores that will go in because of the Walmart, even if I never shop at the Walmart itself. This shopping center replaces an old dying one, which is a good thing in my book.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by seminole97:
I'm not sure why you can't grasp the scale these companies are working on, but it's clear you haven't.

The rest of your post is as ignorant as this and not worth a reply...

 

[rhurner]

Originally posted by goldmom:

Originally posted by rhurner:

Originally posted by DefNotPanHandler2007:

Originally posted by goldmom:
See, GoNolz gets it. WalMart is the world's best place to visit if your self esteem is in need of a boost.

Walk amongst the regular patrons and soon you're patting yourself on the back, because you know for a fact you bathed and brushed your teeth that morning. You are quite sure you'd never leave your house wearing a top that causes your ginormous muffin top to hang out, while pretending that's what muffin tops do.

I know I feel smarter, richer, and far more attractive as I drive out of the parking lot.

Exactly why I frequent the LR.

Yep...I for one KNOW that I'm better than ...........somebody. So while I say that I detest those people. I loathe their very existence. I want those people, I NEED those people around me. Because at the end of the day I'm insecure and need reassurance that I'm worth a crap. Will you be that person defnotpan? Will you goldmom? Huh? How bout you Lt. Weinberg? Will you stand a post at Wallyworld?? ?


This post was edited on 4/16 10:43 AM by rhurner

Hurner, put down the pipe. Observe the winkage and ease up. Can't an old lady have fun?

So I completely missed the attempt at a Col. Jessup from a few good men rant? Oh well. THAT was bizzaro world attempt at humor goldy. BTW....what pipe?