Winston vs Mariota
- Thread starter saenole
- Start date
Are both organizations the same? Or can we be, the Steelers, and draft either player?
Winston
Career
14,283
84
57
87.1
MM
Career
12,004
69
42
89.4
I think they have both been successful. But if Winston can avoid any more off field issues he still has the potential to be the more elite level. Dude is 24 and holds franchise record for most TD passes. He in four seasons is half way to equalling Brad Johnson’s, FSU’s most successful NFL QB, numbers. Brad played 14 years. Additionally Jamies also has a body holding up better.
Career
14,283
84
57
87.1
MM
Career
12,004
69
42
89.4
I think they have both been successful. But if Winston can avoid any more off field issues he still has the potential to be the more elite level. Dude is 24 and holds franchise record for most TD passes. He in four seasons is half way to equalling Brad Johnson’s, FSU’s most successful NFL QB, numbers. Brad played 14 years. Additionally Jamies also has a body holding up better.
Hell, give me Winston for promise and skill alone. Wouldn't matter since they have no organizational clue what they're doing so...
Hopefully they find a clue and fire half of the organization next week.
Winston no doubt. Mariota is always hurt and when he’s not as been more of a game manager. Winston has shown glimpses of greatness and has only missed i think 3 games due to injury.
Package the pick and Doug Martin, drop back 6to 8 picks & add a couple more picks. Use the later pick to draft Gurley.
This is the right answer. When you consider the success of other QBs drafted after 2015 - Mahomes, Wentz, Goff - both have been disappointments.
Both were not worthy of where they were picked in the draft.
After 4 years, Winston has not really improved.....he still makes the same mistakes. He’ll show glimpses of greatness every now and then, but it’s never sustained over a long period of time. That will probably be enough to keep him in the league for a long time. He’s no franchise qb.
Marietta just doesn’t have the frame to hold up in the NFL, given the numbers of qb runs needed for himto be effective. He will just break down over the course of a season.
If Marietta could stay healthy, he probably would have been the better pick. Very little off-field baggage, as well.
After 4 years, Winston has not really improved.....he still makes the same mistakes. He’ll show glimpses of greatness every now and then, but it’s never sustained over a long period of time. That will probably be enough to keep him in the league for a long time. He’s no franchise qb.
Marietta just doesn’t have the frame to hold up in the NFL, given the numbers of qb runs needed for himto be effective. He will just break down over the course of a season.
If Marietta could stay healthy, he probably would have been the better pick. Very little off-field baggage, as well.
I think you know greatness when you see it. They may have productive careers but I doubt they’ll ever be considered among the best of all time.
I think Goff is a product of that system. He’s the perfect example of how much difference a coach can make. He was absolutely awful his rookie year and went a complete 180 since McVay took over.
And Mahomes has Andy Reid not Dirk Koetter. Advantage Mahomes.
And Wentz literally had a Super Bowl caliber team around him.
These are dumb comparisons. The thing holding Jameis back is the coaching.
No doubt. Mahomes is different tho. His physical tools are as good as anyone, he makes passes every single game that only Rodgers could think about making.
And in Week 4, Winston was threw for 145 yards and one TD versus two picks in a 48-10 drubbing by the Bears, while Mariota threw for 344 yards and 2 TDs/1 INT, including a TD pass in OT to defeat the Eagles.
That's the problem with both of them, they're wildly inconsistent, which makes it difficult to build a team around.
I think Winston showed real growth coming back after the benching. The 2016 off field uber issue cost him in 2018 because he just was not ready to start mid season. Being benched may have been the perfect thing he needed.
These last 7 games he had 1811 yards passing, 13 TDs to 3 ints and a 101 rating.
So keeping with the debate at the close of four years, Winston finished his year healthy with best half of season he has ever had, has thrown for 2624 more yards and 19 more touchdowns (16 more ints). He averages nearly 50 yards more passing a game. I think they have both been good drafts. The upside on Winston is still higher though. He is 24 and I think will be entering his true prime physically and maturity wise. If he was not Jameis with the Kinsman accusation, and nonsense like crablegs and jumping on tables in 2014 and then the stupidity in 2016, a lot of people would be talking up his numbers. For a 24 year old playing 56 games for a crappy team under two crappy coaches, 88 TDs and 14,628 is bigly and compares nicely to the starts of many of your all time greats. Someone had compiled the numbers AFTER he was benched using comparative stats for the same amount of starts but not including these last 7 games and he was still even then in great company.
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They've both pretty well met the thoughts that most had when they came out.
For Mariota, he was viewed as very talented - accurate thrower, great mobility, potential to be a great player. Main concern was that to fully utilize his talents, he has to run often, and some thought that would expose him to injury issues. Bingo, that's been him exactly.
For JW, positives were great arm, decent mobility (not as a runner, but as a "dodge the first guy & get the throw off" type), ultra-competitive. Concerns were that he throws too many INTs or balls up for grabs, and questionable off-field issues. Bingo, that's been him exactly. His idiocy with the uber driver cost him, and the team, the 2018 season (and cost Koetter any chance to keep his job).
Very mixed bag for both. They've both looked great at times, bad at times. Both have had their teams & careers affected by the concerns expressed at draft time.
For Mariota, he was viewed as very talented - accurate thrower, great mobility, potential to be a great player. Main concern was that to fully utilize his talents, he has to run often, and some thought that would expose him to injury issues. Bingo, that's been him exactly.
For JW, positives were great arm, decent mobility (not as a runner, but as a "dodge the first guy & get the throw off" type), ultra-competitive. Concerns were that he throws too many INTs or balls up for grabs, and questionable off-field issues. Bingo, that's been him exactly. His idiocy with the uber driver cost him, and the team, the 2018 season (and cost Koetter any chance to keep his job).
Very mixed bag for both. They've both looked great at times, bad at times. Both have had their teams & careers affected by the concerns expressed at draft time.
Using a comparison with Winston coming in in the second half for his first playing time of the year against the best defense in the NFL is not really fair.
Winston missing the first three games didn’t cost the Bucs anything really. They went 2-1.
I disagree. Yeah, they went 2-1 while he was suspended, but the suspension threw things off for the season. Caused preparation issues in the preseason (had to get the backup ready for the first three games, instead of getting Winston ready); caused locker room issues (dissent over which QB to play, since Fitz played well in those games); caused the decision to spend half the season bouncing back & forth between Fitz & JW (either actually doing so, or debating whether they should do so).
IMO it clearly caused problems for the team, despite the fact that they got off to a good start record-wise.
I'd go Winston. Mariota is too fragile.
Winston has been significantly handcuffed by coaching and team management. I really wish he could get out of Tampa but he's done enough for them to want him to stay, so they can continue suffocating his career.
Winston has been significantly handcuffed by coaching and team management. I really wish he could get out of Tampa but he's done enough for them to want him to stay, so they can continue suffocating his career.
Until Tampa fires Licht who's been terrible at his job, that entire organization is going to stay in a state of disarray.
I think at this point he must have some compromising pics of one or more of the Glazers.
As a Nole fan, would have gone with Mariota because of Winston's high cretin factor, two years was enough.
Liked not so much because I agree, but because I’m in awe of the phrase ‘high cretin factor’.
I think Winston is a better ‘franchise QB’ because of his arm and Mariotta’s fragility takes away from one area he shines over Jameis.
I figured some time in the NFL would force Winston to reign in that degree of over confidence that leads to too many picks. But it’s clear that dude always believes he can get it done and that’s not always for the best.
Light has done a good job getting Winston some targets, but passing on Cook for another TE when you have Brate and failing to pick up James were mistakes.
I think Winston is a better ‘franchise QB’ because of his arm and Mariotta’s fragility takes away from one area he shines over Jameis.
I figured some time in the NFL would force Winston to reign in that degree of over confidence that leads to too many picks. But it’s clear that dude always believes he can get it done and that’s not always for the best.
Light has done a good job getting Winston some targets, but passing on Cook for another TE when you have Brate and failing to pick up James were mistakes.
They've both played 56 games. Comp % 63.2/61.6 Yds 12,004/14,628 TDs 69/88 INT 42/58
Mariota also has two playoff starts, and started one more regular season game than Jameis.
And yet he's thrown for almost 3000 fewer yards and 19 fewer TDS. Give Jameis the #2 scoring defense and he'd probably have a playoff appearance or two as well.
That part is the real issue. Our defense and O-Line play have been horrendous. You can overcome bad picks as long as you store lots of TDs. Brett Favre spent his entire career doing that. But you can't overcome them if your defense is atrocious.
Most teams have an overarching strategy / focus. They draft and make FA moves in line with that strategy.
Over the last 4 years I've seen zero strategy or trend in what Licht has done. It's entirely haphazard, as though he's throwing darts while drunk.
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