Alzheimer’s is not the same as covid. Diabetes is not the same. It’s irrational to demand covid be listed as a cause of death when someone dies of those 2 things. CDC guidance allows it, even if the deceased never printed a positive test. That lends itself to over counting, not under. Yet, USA Today complains of rigid cdc guidance.
What I Don’t Get About Vaccine
- Thread starter RONole
- Start date
Please show any evidence at all that the CDC or anyone else has “demanded Covid be listed as a cause of death when someone dies of those 2 things [Alzheimers and Diabetes]” (unless Covid was also suspected to have contributed to the death, in which case it should be listed)… why are you creating this false scenario of some “demand” that Covid be improperly listed as cause of death, which is not what the article you linked discusses? Bizarre
USA Today article demands it--claiming those should be suspected cases because symptoms are shared with covid.
Did you actually read and mentally process the entire article you chose to share? Do you understand the meaning of this verb “demand” that you’re (mis)assigning where it wasn’t suggested at all?
The article only points to contextual clues of likely undercounts, for example “Deaths attributed to diseases that are often tied to COVID-19 increased. Deaths at home from hypertensive heart disease, diabetes and Alzheimer’s all increased 30% or more in 2020. Those deaths, especially those that weren’t properly investigated, make up at least some of Lafayette’s missing COVID-19 deaths, according to experts.” (and that was within the context of an entire article discussing excess deaths which exceed reported Covid deaths and the myriad of hurdles that lead some coroners not to list Covid when all available clues suggest Covid was actually a likely cause)
Where in the world do you see anything approaching a “demand” to count those deaths as Covid deaths?
One good outcome here… you’ve finally convinced me not to waste any more of my time engaging with you in any substantive conversation beyond “Go Noles!”
USA Today categorizes all excess deaths from Alzheimer's that weren't properly investigated as "missing COVID-19 deaths." Literally what you quoted. Perhaps "commandeer" is more appropriate than "demand."
Holy crap man, do you seriously not understand plain English? How is “make up at least some of Lafayette’s missing COVID-19 deaths, according to experts.” anywhere close to “categorizes all excess deaths… as Covid deaths”?
Reading is fundamental.
And this is no mere difference in opinion. This is pure bush league fabrication on your part. Sad.
good news staying on topic as you requested following the science
‘Paramount importance’: Judge orders FDA to hasten release of Pfizer vaccine docs
Score one for transparency.
www.reuters.com
Hopefully we can get the info about the vax in the next 3 months instead of waiting the 75 years the FDA wanted
Okay, let's break this down for you.
USA Today begins by noting a "couple hundred" missing covid deaths in Lafayette, LA. So at least 200. The article later reiterates "hundreds" more people in 2020 "probably died of covid" according to experts. Worth noting here, and as pointed out by USAToday, CDC guidelines suggest that a *probably* should be listed as a covid death.
There were 285 excess deaths not categorized as covid deaths in Lafayette. 240 after removing 45 excess deaths from homicides, suicides, accidents and drug ODs. According to USA Today, at least 200 of that 240 are covid deaths.
In the part you quoted, "THOSE DEATHS," refers to ALL excess deaths from Alzheimers, diabetes, & heart disease. USAToday certainly leaves some breathing room for this broad category. But the article does not stop there.
USA Today hones in on a subcategory of "those deaths" ("especially"): those that weren't properly investigated. It was this subcategory that USA Today believes should be included in the COVID death total, in its entirety. The article more than implies "all." Why? Because symptoms are shared with covid, and if it's not properly investigated, it's a *probably*, and should be listed as a covid death under CDC guidelines (if you disagree, please reread the article). USA Today isn't wrong about CDC guidelines. If followed, "all" of this subcategory should be included in the total. The whole point of the article is that these uninvestigated deaths should be listed as covid deaths, and the failure to do so results in a significant undercount.
We likely agree that following CDC guidelines would result in an overcount, just as not including any of the subcategory identified by USA Today likely results in an undercount. The article--implying that covid death counts are understated--cherry picks small towns with presumably the worst undercounts, while not acknowledging the resulting overcount from strict application of CDC guidelines.
“Nationwide, nearly 1 million more people have died in 2020 and 2021 than in normal, pre-pandemic years, but about 800,000 deaths have been officially attributed to COVID-19, according to the CDC data. A majority of those additional 195,000 deaths are unidentified COVID-19 cases, public health experts have long suggested, pointing to the unusual increase in deaths from natural causes.”
In the English language, “a majority of” is NOT synonymous with ALL as you allege USA Today is “demanding” or even suggesting.
“Deaths attributed to diseases that are often tied to COVID-19 increased. Deaths at home from hypertensive heart disease, diabetes and Alzheimer’s all increased 30% or more in 2020. Those deaths, especially those that weren’t properly investigated, make up at least some of Lafayette’s missing COVID-19 deaths, according to experts.”
In the English language, “at least some of” is NOT synonymous with ALL as you allege USA Today is “demanding” or even suggesting.
Yes, I fully understand by now how desperately you want the authors of this article and their editors and everyone else at USA Today to be demanding that every single excess death be counted as a Covid death, but that’s simply not the case. At all. Not even slightly.
I do not know you but damn this is a bad look. Give it a rest.
How do we know those extra deaths are from Covid? Or even a majority of them? They are assuming thats the case but it could be a increase from drug overdoses right?
In Hinds County, deaths from acute myocardial infarction, or heart attacks, increased 54% from 2019 to 2020. In neighboring Rankin County they doubled. In both places, the majority of those deaths happened at home.
The increase in heart attack deaths at home suggests that those people avoided treatment for other conditions or were in fact sick with COVID-19.
Maybe avoided treatment due to fear of Covid but sick with Covid? That's a stretch.
I read both articles but didn't see where your quote came from so I probably missed it. I get the context of the article but it still states there were increases in deaths from other causes over that time. It could be due to people not going to the hospital when they should have because of lockdowns, availability or fear of catching a virus. But that's not dying of covid.
My opinion is this. The number of deaths from COVID is likely overstated in some cases especially where there was other factors. Also the numbers of covid deaths was under reported in many areas due to unknown cases. However, I also think the numbers of infections is significantly under reported due to asymptomatic cases. So to me many more people contracted this than we will ever know but we do know how many died to a certain degree meaning the overall mortality rate of covid is probably lower then we think. IMO of course.
"at least some of" is referring to the total missing covid deaths. I.e., there are more missing covid deaths than can be accounted for by only excess heart disease, diabetes and Alzheimer's deaths.
It doesn't say "at least some of those deaths," it says "at least some of . . . missing COVID-19 deaths." This is pretty basic sentence structure.
Cool Steve, you go right on and stretch every word and phrase and sentence in that article like whatever conspiratorial pretzel is required to say whatever you want it to say that it’s clearly not saying. If you insist on seeing ghosts and boogeymen around every corner, you will.
Finally:
Now the World Health Organization has waved the white flag on Covid vaccine boosters too.
WHO released a statement about Covid vaccines yesterday. It’s filled with the usual public health jargon and ass-covering, but one line stands out:
a vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable.
SOURCE: https://www.who.int/news/item/11-01...dvisory-group-on-covid-19-vaccine-composition
At most, future Covid vaccinations will look a lot like current influenza vaccinations (and NOT the other way around). They’ll be cooked up annually and handed out at the beginning of the winter season. They won’t do much, and no one will expect them to.
Except when it comes to Covid, the WHO doesn’t want those vaccines either.
It explicitly said in the statement that future vaccines against Covid must “be more effective in protection against infection thus lowering community transmission.”
Two huge points hidden in those 11 words:
First, they are inherently a devastating critique of the current failure of Covid vaccines to work as promised.
Second, the WHO does NOT apply that standard to flu vaccines, which do not and are not expected to stop community transmission. Why demand more of Covid vaccines? The only honest answer is that the mRNA and DNA Covid vaccines have much more severe side effects than flu vaccines and thus must be held to a much higher standard.
Which they have no hope of meeting.
It’s over, people.
Aside from a few unlucky Israelis, no one is going to receive a fourth dose of the original vaccine; everyone with eyes can see it doesn’t work against Omicron. (And if you haven’t gotten a third dose, at this point, why would you? You are getting at most weeks of marginally improved protection for potentially severe side effects.)
Instead the WHO is now promising/demanding vaccines based on whatever the dominant Sars-Cov-2 strain is at the moment.
The war is over.
The (mRNA) vaccines lost. The only question is when... how many more people will be harmed before American public health authorities announce their surrender.
Now the World Health Organization has waved the white flag on Covid vaccine boosters too.
WHO released a statement about Covid vaccines yesterday. It’s filled with the usual public health jargon and ass-covering, but one line stands out:
a vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable.
SOURCE: https://www.who.int/news/item/11-01...dvisory-group-on-covid-19-vaccine-composition
At most, future Covid vaccinations will look a lot like current influenza vaccinations (and NOT the other way around). They’ll be cooked up annually and handed out at the beginning of the winter season. They won’t do much, and no one will expect them to.
Except when it comes to Covid, the WHO doesn’t want those vaccines either.
It explicitly said in the statement that future vaccines against Covid must “be more effective in protection against infection thus lowering community transmission.”
Two huge points hidden in those 11 words:
First, they are inherently a devastating critique of the current failure of Covid vaccines to work as promised.
Second, the WHO does NOT apply that standard to flu vaccines, which do not and are not expected to stop community transmission. Why demand more of Covid vaccines? The only honest answer is that the mRNA and DNA Covid vaccines have much more severe side effects than flu vaccines and thus must be held to a much higher standard.
Which they have no hope of meeting.
It’s over, people.
Aside from a few unlucky Israelis, no one is going to receive a fourth dose of the original vaccine; everyone with eyes can see it doesn’t work against Omicron. (And if you haven’t gotten a third dose, at this point, why would you? You are getting at most weeks of marginally improved protection for potentially severe side effects.)
Instead the WHO is now promising/demanding vaccines based on whatever the dominant Sars-Cov-2 strain is at the moment.
The war is over.
The (mRNA) vaccines lost. The only question is when... how many more people will be harmed before American public health authorities announce their surrender.
Last edited:
Come on man, you heard it in the LR first… “The war is over”!!!!!
The sheeple have been shorn… Murica defeated The People’s Republic of Vaxistan!
No idea who that guy is
But whatever
since you and Dhersh keep saying follow the science the Article is from the WORLD HEALTH ORG
please debunk the science for me from the WHO
here is the article :
www.who.int
please feel free to point out to me where the WHO is wrong so i have a better understanding
thanks
But whatever
since you and Dhersh keep saying follow the science the Article is from the WORLD HEALTH ORG
please debunk the science for me from the WHO
here is the article :
Interim Statement on COVID-19 vaccines in the context of the circulation of the Omicron SARS-CoV-2 Variant from the WHO Technical Advisory Group on COVID-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-CO-VAC)
Key messages: WHO has established the Technical Advisory Group on COVID-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-CO-VAC) to review and assess the public health implications of emerging SARS-CoV-2 Variants of Concern (VOC) on the performance of COVID-19 vaccines and to provide recommendations to WHO on...
please feel free to point out to me where the WHO is wrong so i have a better understanding
thanks
What you interpreted from that WHO communication as some kind of “aha! the smoking gun admission of surrender!!!” is actually a Duh nothingburger other than a smart, cogent summarization of what everybody knows (or should know) and agrees upon (or should)… as Covid’s mutations have taught us, we need to work on future Covid vaccines that not only reduce severity of outcomes but also provide stronger/more reliable protection against infection.No idea who that guy is
But whatever
since you and Dhersh keep saying follow the science the Article is from the WORLD HEALTH ORG
please debunk the science for me from the WHO
here is the article :
Interim Statement on COVID-19 vaccines in the context of the circulation of the Omicron SARS-CoV-2 Variant from the WHO Technical Advisory Group on COVID-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-CO-VAC)
Key messages: WHO has established the Technical Advisory Group on COVID-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-CO-VAC) to review and assess the public health implications of emerging SARS-CoV-2 Variants of Concern (VOC) on the performance of COVID-19 vaccines and to provide recommendations to WHO on...
please feel free to point out to me where the WHO is wrong so i have a better understanding
thanks
Multiple things can be true at the same time. Here, those multiple things are that our current vaccines remain our best preventative defense against severe outcomes AND also we must work on future vaccines that do even more in the spread prevention realm.
But yeh, “The war is over!”, whatever that comedic interpretation means.
Natural immunity is far and away better than the vaccine. Unfortunately, some people are higher risk and can't rely on obtaining natural immunity, however, if you are below 65, healthy, and especially if you have young kids that have been bringing corona viruses into the household in the years prior to C19, it is nothing more than the common flu.
I've been offline due to personal and family circumstances and having covid myself. My point is I think it's interesting that all of your vaxxed employees will catch covid. Seven of my family members and three different locations all caught it. Fortunately omicron is nothing worse than a mid to mild cold or flu but you can expect it. Hope you're happy for giving yourself extra work and firing your employees when your vaxed employees are going to get it also.
Oh and all seven of my family were fully vaxed
And this is one of the problems with the MSM and the government and fauci and their claims. They have one mantra and there can no be any differentiation. Pfizers original study which I could link stated that it was 95% effective at preventing covid that story has entirely changed.
Same story goes for cloth mask or ineffective oh wait now they are effective no wait now they are ineffective and we need n95 masks.
And then Biden goes against the supreme Court and tells companies to get their vaccines further employees anyway but he limits the employees at 100. Why? Why not include everybody? Why not include Senate and congress?. He's a f****** liar as is fousey they are honest in the terms that they use but they apply their applications independently
And found see in the US helped fund growth of viruses viaa Fauci.. Rand Paul even called him out in front of Congress but you will hear no questions about that. Where did this virus come from? Remember when it was called the Wuhan virus but China is silent.
I have no doubt that the virus is real and the vaccines can help many but I refer to gbrs stats where 92% of those who die are over 55. Nobody under 18 has died from covid unless they are comorbid I just am tired of the fear-mongering as others have said on this board I'll take my backs I'll wear my mask but I'm not going to worry about anything else
Last edited:
Yes and Biden via executive order wants to fire first line workers who saved lives for a year and a half during covid but now some of them don't want the vats so fire them what kind of b******* is that?
I searched for a few minutes and pfizers original statement on 95% effectiveness on vaccine not improvement of health is very difficult to find welcome to Big tech and Facebook and google. I did find this and so this brings us back to the original story. Which we all know is b******* now
www.cnbc.com
Pfizer's CEO says Covid vaccine effectiveness drops to 84% after six months
Pfizer's vaccine initially protects people 100% of the time against hospitalization, but that falls to low 90% and mid-to-high 80% after 6 months, Bourla said.
Who the hell runs these studies? And a Pfizer employee has stated here that the vaccine has no long-term effect. He is a respectful knowledgeable poster but how does he respond to articles like these. If the vaccine is proved ineffective after several weeks how do we know the effect after several years? Just a question not trying to be in an a****** just wondering.
Again I'm not trying to be a dick I'm just curious about explanations. I completely respect the poster to whom I am referring
www.pfizer.com
Again I'm not trying to be a dick I'm just curious about explanations. I completely respect the poster to whom I am referring
Pfizer and BioNTech Confirm High Efficacy and No Serious Safety Concerns Through Up to Six Months Following Second Dose in Updated Topline Analysis of Landmark COVID-19 Vaccine Study | Pfizer
Analysis of 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 demonstrates BNT162b2 is highly effective with 91.3% vaccine efficacy observed against COVID-19, measured seven days through up to six months after the second dose Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the...
www.pfizer.com
Last edited:
Hey friend, welcome back and I'm glad you and your family sound like you are feeling better. Is this your only question? If so I can try to answer to the best of my ability.
I'd first like to clarify. When you say "the vaccine is proved ineffective after several weeks," are you referring to the fact that the lone active ingredient (mRNA) plays it's role and is disposed of by the body in that time frame?
Let's have a discussion 🙂
This was always going to become endemic. Most people were always going to be infected. Novel means new and as such was dangerous to immune suppressed and older with multiple co-morbidity. It's not new anymore. Have a friend who teaches at Dartmouth. Class of 65 students...........35 tested positive last week. Dartmouth tests everyone multiple times a week. No serious illnesses, no hospitalizations, majority asymptomatic. Requiring everyone to be boosted not to stop infections, but as a precaution against hospitalization. Next winter you will be able to get your flu shot or Covid or mix I bet. Some institutions will add it on to required vaccinations along with MMR series.
Hi Dhresh. Yes the family is fine thank you. Seven of us had covid at three different locations,, over Christmas including my brother my sister me and my brother's wife and my mom was in hospice. So my mom likely had covid too when she passed away but she passed away from renal failure likely caught covid during hospice.
Fortunately this latest variant is a mid to mild cold / flu. All of us are fine. All vaxed prior to catching. What is interesting is that my son-in-law was with my two youngest kids in New York City over christmas. And he had already had covid my two kids caught it but he did not.
It's an interesting topic to discuss but I am no longer interested as the poster who was wrecked up in the car accident I think is handle is allnoles or something like that. Do what you can. Ignore the rest.
I don't follow these boards much more once football season is over best wishes always.
Last edited:
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
Softball FSU honors seniors, sweeps UNC, picks up 14th straight win- Latest: Bob Ferrante
-
