Additional evidence showing COVID vaccines are effective against the delta variant. We really need to do a better job of changing that narrative. Its not true that the vaccines don't work against delta. They work against all VOCs.
What I Don’t Get About Vaccine
- Thread starter RONole
- Start date
There’s only a handful of mutations to the spike protein and none of them have been able to establish themselves in a VOC on a pandemic scale.
i think it is Chile where they did have a variant with a spike mutation that evaded the vaccines but it looks to be contained to that country.
i think it is Chile where they did have a variant with a spike mutation that evaded the vaccines but it looks to be contained to that country.
Chile has also been using a lot of Sinovac's CoronaVac vaccine, then I believe AstraZeneca is 2nd in that country (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Obviously neither of those are approved in the US and CoronaVac's effectiveness at preventing symptomatic infection is 58.5% according to the Chilean government. So not as good of vaccines and I wonder how good that particular mutant would be at escaping US approved vaccines.
Are you sure JH doesn't have an agenda.....asking for a friend.
Yeah they are trying to run for president then turn the government into a dictatorship and force everyone to be medically informed and healthy against their will. Terrible.
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Well Dr Robert Malone who invented the MRNA technology has joined with other drs to get truth out there. If everyone is vaccinated it won’t stop the spread. Also there is massive intel although from foreign countries on the truth that is being squelched by the mainstream media. India has totally irradicated the spread in one of the largest territories of 200 million people by distributing Ivermectin. Also natural immunity is being overlooked. Wonder why? Follow the money! I feel bad for your former employees.
Ivermectin is not used to stop the spread. Ivermectin is being used in few locations against recommendation to treat patients who have already caught the virus, and it has not proven successful yet.
In fact, in India, Ivermectin was removed from their revised guidelines for the treatment of the infection less than two months ago because the ICMR and the National Task Force on Covid-19 in India found that it has little to no effect on Covid-related mortality or clinical recovery of the patient.
Point is, seems like whoever gave you that info is deliberately lying to you to push an agenda and you bought in, friend.
Its hard to know what to conclude except to take prudent precautions to protect yourself and the people around you the best you can. For me that has meant laying low last year, vaccination plus a booster and staying away from Travis Scott concerts.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the Natural Immunity point he posted. I'm not a medical doctor, nor do I work in a medical field, but I don't understand why that stance is missing from everyone's conversation about herd immunity or its impact on why a vaccine mandate is necessary.
I've posted about immune response after infection many times before. Adaptive/acquired immunity is an important evolutionary trait and in the majority of cases it can provide the ultimate level of protection from future pathogen invasion for one individual.
Immune response can vary depending on the strength of each individual's immune system, along with the viral load during an infection, and this will affect the durability and duration of acquired immunity.
The most concerning part about acquired immunity is that you have to become infected. This is bad for multiple reasons from the community level down to the individual level and again down to the adaptivity of the virus itself. For these reasons, becoming infected obviously is not something anyone wants to do if they can avoid it.
With all known human-infecting coronaviruses, the duration of acquired immunity is short compared to immunity from other types of antigens. Limited data has suggested that this will be the case with SARS-CoV-2 as well, and more time will be needed to determine how long immunity generally lasts.
I think that the reason for pushing the vaccine and not factoring in acquired immunity from infection is due to the fact that we understand the protection offered by the vaccine better than we understand the virus.
I must not have read far enough back to have seen your other responses. Thanks for clarifying. I know you weren’t the one commenting on mandating vaccines and you tend to provide a very civil discussion about what your field of expertise is.
I wish more people would understand that many would rather take their chances with surviving Covid from a natural immune system response and not have to take a vaccine that they feel like they don’t need.
except for SARS-Cov where robust immunity is know to continue to exist some 18 years later.
Are those outliers or a trend? Given not enough time has passed since SARS-CoV began, but immunity against many infectious diseases after inoculation can last decades. Each one has their own traits tho.
Thanks friend. I just like to bring a balanced discussion. Each person will feel a certain way about this or that, but what is best for everyone will never be an easy answer, the majority of the time. I think it's important to be able to discuss rationally in an open forum like this board.
Rather than argue about this, we might just look at the CDC disclosed seroprevalence rate of 89.4% (over age 16) in blood bank specimens. This means that between vaccination and having been infected, just shy of 90% of people in the US have protection (doesn't include T-cell immunity) against Covid rendering them unlikely to be hospitalized or die. In essence..........the pandemic is over in the USA with a few pockets of localized areas still with a significant vulnerable population. Now if you are immune compromised or real old, then your immune system still might not be able to overcome the virus (or a host of dangerous viruses), and you still might require hospitalization and or die.........but this incessant counting does no one any good.
EDIT: and add in that we know have several "pills" that lower risk of severe disease/death by significant margins and that hospitals/doctors now know much more about how to care for those with serious infection.
Also keep in mind that ~90% only reflects people 16+.
It doesn’t include the people <16 that have been vaccinated and/or had covid, which in the case of infections is probably somewhere between 30 and 40 percent. Possibly more.
Wow. Don't be sorry for them. Free enterprise and business and all. But you..... keep up with that dewormer.
The problem with this is you put me, my child, and other compromised individuals at risk. Plus you make yourself a breeding ground for new variants that may increase the risk to others. Stop relying on your "feelings" and listen to the science. This isn't that effing hard, new, different or unusual.
Everyone here is having a very civil discussion. You on the other hand have made your stance very clear and you seem to get off on the fact you fired 4 people.
Btw, science is the constant challenging of data and known principles. What you call as science is nowhere close. If it was, it would consider all the studies that people have talked about above that don’t correlate any protection towards catching or giving it. It would take into account the very real study by Oxford that showed that vaccinated people carry a viral load nearly 250 times higher than non vaccinated people. This coincided with the side effects that Dr Malone warned everyone about over a year ago. Media and people like you have tried to discredit any free thinking or scientific challenging to your narrative (much like your stance toward your former employees)
The very nature of a vaccine and a mask is a personal protection, or PPE for you mr osha. Somehow, your science has turned them into a requirement to participate in society.
Hmmmm.... Everyone admits that not driving through a red light does not prevent you from getting into a crash. All it does it help your chances from being in a crash. So why force people to stop at red lights. If stopping at redlights stopped people from getting in crashes then I could see it but it doesn't. So if someone drives through a red light, that's on them (forget the people they hit because they do not matter in this crash covid equation) if they crash terribly and they have to live (or die) with their choice (again, the people they affect aren't mentioned) but I don't get the purpse of mandating traffic laws and arresting people because it is not impacting your co-workers, just you (and the people you affect)? Am I missing something?
By the way, I stop at red lights so I am not "anti traffic laws" but I don't understand the logic of the mandates when it does not stop car crashes.
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As I understand it, over time, we run into these pathogens several times, and every time we run into them it initiates a response. That is what makes it enduring. Am I wrong?
As for the vaccination, the mistake was to continue to test and count infections, which really doesn't matter. The pathogen in now endemic and almost everyone will come across it at some time. What matters is how our health care system interacts with serious infections. Can we treat them? Do we have the resources in place for outbreaks? That is where the vaccination comes in. The vaccination lowers individual risk of serious infection from Covid. And now we have pharmaceutical interventions that can prevent and treat serious infections. Its been a long two years, but we now are in a good place with this pathogen. Time to move on. Mandates whether mask or vaccination are not needed at this time. But we are still suffering from PTSD from the pandemic. Hence, politicians and public health officials are reactionary.
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Ergo, people made it political. The media, as Tucker Carlson's attorney's put it, "is something that no logical person would believe." So, what we have here sounds like a populous that is either lacking education or logic. So, the media can do its thing all day. The people, as a whole, make the choices.
all of this. the data is there is plain site. and as an aside, no naturally occurring viral pandemic has lasted much beyond 2 years (as a pandemic) regardless of drug intervention. maybe C19 will prove to be the exception to that? history suggests it won't.
No logical person should believe but they do. Maybe they don’t believe Tucker but they believe what they hear not what they see. This whole thing had a purpose and it wasn’t or never will be about public health.
Just adding on. HIV is the only other ongoing pandemic. Unfortunately, we won't know how long immunity lasts until we find out over time.
There may be conflicting "information" out there, but there really is not any conflicting science. Virtually every science-based study shows that the vaccines are highly effective against infection and transmission, just not 100%, because nothing is that good. You can go all they way back to the original clinical trials if you want. The vaccines would have never been approved if they were not highly effective in preventing you from getting COVID in the first place. Take the following from the Pfizer trial if you want actual numbers from an actual study:
"A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo. There were 8 cases of Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose among participants assigned to receive BNT162b2 and 162 cases among those assigned to placebo; BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6). Similar vaccine efficacy (generally 90 to 100%) was observed across subgroups defined by age, sex, race, ethnicity, baseline body-mass index, and the presence of coexisting conditions. Among 10 cases of severe Covid-19 with onset after the first dose, 9 occurred in placebo recipients and 1 in a BNT162b2 recipient. The safety profile of BNT162b2 was characterized by short-term, mild-to-moderate pain at the injection site, fatigue, and headache. The incidence of serious adverse events was low and was similar in the vaccine and placebo groups."
Keep off the moors, stick to the science, and the best o' luck!
Next week!
Breakthrough Infections: Coronavirus After Vaccination
COVID-19 breakthrough infections are on the rise but here’s what you can do to reduce your risk.www.hopkinsmedicine.org
How about Johns Hopkins. Study rates are showing between 1 in 5000 and 1 in 100. I suspect the latter is a result of waning vaccine effectiveness. Go get your booster.
This is 101 stuff. I don’t understand why so many question the science.
I work in a science based field. I had a co-worker who operated on feel, gut and what ‘looked’ better. My company fired her. Personal experience is fine as long as it’s based on data. Feel and gut aren’t data.
Right which is what any common sense person would think. However, Fauci and the CDC want you to believe they have that answer already. So lets take a vaccine that people are not sure about, add a BS line about immunity and tell them they need a booster. I wonder why this whole thing isnt going to plan?
I think the problem most have is that everyone on both sides are discounting data sets because it doesn't fit their narrative.
We also have a huge flaw in a lot of the collected data when you compare how numbers have been tallied as well as what data was collected. I think its pretty naïve to believe anybody has a true picture with the data we have from only 2 years in.
Anecdotally, i.e. what I see from my day to day life, is what I have made my decision based on because of reasons listed above.
I have a suggestion for you and this is not intended to be mean spirited. Research this for yourself. If you are an intelligent individual, which you appear to be, you will be able to discern for yourself what the truth is. Much of the information, especially the vaccine/mask skepticism is stirred up by social media.
The vaccines most definitely have efficacy against infection with the virus, it's just not 100%. And, the immunity against infection does wane. However, even then, the vaccines are highly effective against serious disease and hospitalization. The greater the number of people who aren't vaccinated, the greater the chance of virus variants which are more serious. That affects everyone, and will keep us from returning to anything like normal. It's really not rocket science.
Bro, this is not accurate as the vaccine does reduce the chances of getting the Covid. Agreed, it does not absolutely prevent, but does improve the chances of not contracting the virus, and surviving it!
The Omicron variant is clearly the "JV version" of this thing, but the mainstream media continues to strain to portray it as the equivalent of the bubonic plague.
Brush right past the Kentucky tornado crisis to pump up this inflated narrative. LOL.
Brush right past the Kentucky tornado crisis to pump up this inflated narrative. LOL.
So far it has killed as many people as Alec Baldwin or Ted Kennedy.
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